Meditating

stevenmu

Like 6th says, the best way to get rid of stray thoughts is to acknowledge and deal with them. What works for me is to visualise my mind as a big space, with the thoughts as objects flying through it. I pick each one individually, acknowledge it, deal with it and then push it out.
"Report on wednesday" - "Screw it, I'll do it later"
"Baby crying ?" - "nope, next"

and so on. It does take a little practice, but pretty quickly you can get rid of thoughts as soon as they start to appear.

I think that when you describe your mind spiralling off, it could be because you're getting too worked up about all the thoughts that you're trying to get rid of, leading to more thought, which in turn gets you worked up more, more thought and so on a a vicious spiral. That's what used to happen me at least. To stop this, I just needed to relax more about what I was doing, I needed to stop worrying so much much about doing it 'wrong' and stop putting pressure on myself to do it 'right'. I think I used to look at meditation as an activity which I could analyse and perfect the technique of it and suddenly great things would happen. I've now come to accept that it's not so much a case of trial and error as it is of just trial, i.e. there is no 'wrong', you just try it and see what happens.

littlebug

Thanks Steven and 6th,

I just had another attempt and you know what... it was just lovely. I can't say my mind emptied or got even close to being empty but I actually managed to relax and be still for half an hour. I think you were right Steven i was getting worked up about not doing it right.However I don't think the spiraling I described was thoughts spiraling out of control... I think it was the spiralling into emptiness, i.e. no thoughts, that scared me.
I have a long way to go with this but for now I'm just happy that I managed to relax for half an hour!

Thanks for the advice. Nice to know I've people to call on.

P

6th

Glad to hear it went well. Tbh I dont think anyone can really clear their minds fully for more than a couple of minutes. I remember being told that even Yogis cant manage it for too long.


I'm thinking of beginning a meditation log where i'll take notes when i finish. Hopefully it will be more successful than my dream log

MeditationMom

On Meditation-

Notice when your mind IS empty - this is very important. It is empty at the moment just before orgasm. It is empty at the moment JUST BEFORE you get a joke. It is empty just before "impending death" as in a car accident or other danger situation. It is empty when encountering something "breath-taking". It is also empty at the very moment just before, breathing in, or out. It is empty when something makes absolutely no sense at all, or is absolutely new to you - when you are "stunned". Then of course there are drugs, with Heroin being, well, the queen of all. (Don't bother to try it)

Our greatest desire is this emptiness. Our greatest fear also, since we equate it with death. Try to understand this, your greatest fear and desire of "death". What is it really?

When we think about the above situations which give us experiences of emptiness we start to understand our attraction to these kinds of situations. But as with all things material they eventually lose their potency, be they drugs, bunji jumping, super sex, car racing, chasing beauty or newer and better experiences, and everyone's favorite- wealth or power (which is also where our desire for enlighenment can linger for years), etc, etc.

That is when it is time to go in. Leaving it all be, so you can just be. Not so easy to do when you are young and still have hope that there is something in the world to be found providing ultimate happiness.

Also, if we take a good, close look at our thoughts we realize eventually that the only objectives of our bodies and minds are two things - preservation and procreation (and death, but that is another story). And, our ongoing, automatic thoughts are not very great, original or that important. Therefore a mantra like this: " There is nothing to think about." accompanied often by a sigh of relief, helps to disengage from thinking during our
"meditation" practice, of doing nothing, not even meditating or trying to not think of anything.

Do you drive an automatic or a stick shift car? If you understand how a stick shift works you can understand meditation as "hitting the clutch". No matter what gear your life is in, no matter how many revs, you have discovered the "trick" to disengage the mind, and body, for that matter. This "trick", for the beginner feels a lot like the delicate balancing on a tightrope, seems like a lot of work, and tiring, too. We get impatient, but for an old shoe it is just the most wonderful and natural way to be.

Then there are other proven ways you can "practice" during your every day activities. In other words without making a big deal about "meditating" in a special place , in a special posture etc. You simply witness your breathing, your chewing of food, any other activity, your mental and physical attitudes as they roll along through your mind and body during your day, your speech. Without trying to be "kind", or "buddhist", or ANYTHING, just watch and don't judge, in other words don't "engage" as you witness. It is just a relaxing and staying conscious, really. This act of witnessing is like the warm rays of the sun that over time purify you, without you having to "do" anything. Above all, ENJOY!!! This life is precious and short. Remember to relax, so your easy, gentle, natural buddha-smile can appear on your face. Remember your true self which is my true self which is our true self which is truth itself.

kshiel

Dont know if anyone else has had this problem. Lately when I try to meditate I seem to fall asleep instead. I usually cannot try to meditate until the kids are in bed as way to distracting other wise, so it would be only about 8ish when I start. As was discussed a few posts back about letting the thoughts just letting them drift in and out, I have tried this also and find it good to do so and all but I just usually at the end of it or somewhere inbetween fall asleep, I must just get to relaxed. Any one have any ideas on how one might stop this from happening or any good med. tapes that might get me in the desired zone and not the sleep state.

littlebug

kshiel wrote:

Dont know if anyone else has had this problem. Lately when I try to meditate I seem to fall asleep instead. I usually cannot try to meditate until the kids are in bed as way to distracting other wise, so it would be only about 8ish when I start.

I have the same problem, I'm so knackered by the time they go to bed I would be asleep in about 2 minutes flat.
I have however tried to meditate in the morning when they're out and that does work better. OK it is officially my work time but I do find I work better afterwards even if I only take 20 minutes or so. Of course it depends how much work I have to do.

If your kids are at home allday though that makes it a bit more difficult... i don't know that answer but if you figure it out let me know!

P

kshiel

The youngest is with me all day so it can be a bit tricky to try during the day. I might try and go for a drive somewhere quiet and do it there, less likely to fall asleep in the car.

Chopper

I would like to recommend a book on the Water Method of Taoist Meditation it is called;

'Relaxing Into Your Being'
by Bruce Kumar Frantzis

Very well written and detailed yet easy to follow.

As someone mentioned already it is difficult to learn a technique from a book; but in this case Mr B. K. Frinzis has some students here in Ireland who could possibly help you further your studies (if you can find them!)



.

PJG

Hi Folks,

If you want to really deepen your meditation quickly and get results fast you may want to try

http://www.transparentcorp.com/

or

http://www.immrama.org/

or

http://www.centerpointe.com/ here you can get a free demo CD and give it a go.


Plenty of stuff on blogs and forums on the net discussing the pros and con’s of the above.

Cheers

Doctor Dee

Theres a book by a Buddhist Nun in the Tibetan tradition, one of the first westerners to become ordained, and her book is an excellent introduction to various techniques of the Tibetan tradition, including visualizations and analytical meditations (something like the concentration techniques that Dagon talks about).Other great books include the Dalai Lamas "Awakening the Mind, Lightening the heart" (He has the ability to put profound wisdom into simple language, prose which has layers of meaning), "Insight Meditiation" by Goldstein, "Tibetan Buddhism from the Ground up". These authors offer some what seems like your best hope of authenticity, aimed at Westerners. The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying also offers good advice on meditation technique.

A common single-pointed medititation might involve the following:

sitting comfortably on a cushion or two, half-lotus if possible,

back straight, but shoulders relaxed, hand resting on knees, arms relaxed,

eyes relaxed, not staring hard, but softly gazing at ground level about one metre away, at nothing in particular maybe,

breathing through the nose if possible, tongue resting up against the inside two tip front teeth (stops salive building up and distracting you!).

pay attention to each parts of your body, working from top to bottom and back, actively relaxing any tension you find in head shoulders, arms, legs feet etc.

watch the breath, as it gets more rhythmic and slower and shallower as you relax. Notice that there is a natural gap at the end of each exhalation. Let the breath come easily, without trying to force the breathing, and dont get too wrapped up in analysing it. Just watch it gently, get into its rhythm.

your mind will wander in an instant or two. thoughts of all kinds jump about. try not to get involved in these by just watching them come and go in a detached sort of way.

Avoid mental conversations and discussions. Try not to get sucked in to the running commentary, the "TV" that is at the forefront of your mind.

Avoidance is best achieved by opening the mind rather than trying to close off the thoughts.

Each time you find yourself getting wrapped up in thoughts, try and bring your mind back to the breath, counting them perhaps.

Trying too hard might be defeating the purpose

Its not so much that its hard, its that our mind isnt used to being still, and it takes some getting used to. But its a very natural, open, free state of mind.

If its done regularly, its surprising how quickly our mind starts to get used to a change. You can see results, though subtle, quite soon after starting regular practice.

Its not so much emptying the mind as allowing the vast expanse of it to become clear, too allow the dust to settle, too allow the fog to lift."Bringing the mind home" they call it.

Hope this helps. Its just some of the things that were told to me, that I found helpful in my meditation. I am very much a beginner, and dont practice enough. Buddhists refer to their meditation pursuits as their practice. They see themselves as practicing in the sense of always learning and improving.

May all beings be happy
Doctor Dee

Doctor Dee

sorry that the previous is so hard to read, the "list button" I was using doesnt seem to have worked.

Doctor Dee

The book I talk about at the beginning of the post is by Kathleen McDonald and is called "How to Meditate".

So Glad

Lately I have been heavily engaging myself in the Edgar Cayce meditation routines that can be accessed for free here.

I've never felt so enlightened in all my life.

It is true that one encounters a state of divine bliss whilst meditating, although this is usually hard to maintain. I would hit that point and become so excited and infactuated that I lose track of maintaining mind silence and return to being aware that I am meditating. The trick is training yourself and your mind.

Everyone should meditate.

Asiaprod

Very interesting for me to see so many types of and methods for meditation. This is a common subject over on the Buddhism Forum so I thought I would add this comment on another way to approach meditation. It is not just for Buddhists, but can be used by all. Meditation is something that is indeed hard to start, but becomes very easy with practice. I am reposting two pieces on meditation. The first is an explanation of meditation and the second is a simple guide to meditating.

Letting the Mind Settle
A beginner's mind is often compared to a big waterfall with thoughts tumbling down like rushing water, but there's no need to get upset or frustrated. Through regular practice it will gradually settle, become as gentle as a quiet river, and finally as deep and peaceful as an ocean without waves.
We shouldn't get impatient or angry if our mind keeps wandering and we have to bring it back every second. Anyway, mind cannot be subdued by anger; it can only be tamed with love and kindness. We should not, in the name of meditation, punish or upset ourselves. We should treat our mind the way a very tolerant and loving mother would treat her naughty child. The child has so much energy that it jumps and messes around all the time and tries to run out of the room. The mother doesn't get upset or angry, she doesn't beat it up. She lets it play, but within the confines of one room. Slowly, the naughty child will use up all his or her energy and come to rest. We should also allow our mind to jump anywhere it wants to jump, but watch it constantly and bring it back every time, a million times if necessary. We should not be judgmental, get impatient, discouraged or angry, otherwise our meditation will become very tense, difficult and painful. We give total space to our mind and let it wear out its own energy.
If we experience the big waterfall and cannot control our mind, some breathing exercises might be quite good.Breathing is part of us. If you are a beginner you can close your eyes and use mental counting. With each in and out breath you count one. You count up to five, then start from the beginning again. We completely engage our mental activity in the breathing without thinking about anything else.
As we are now really trying to discipline our mind, it may react and reject it. If we try hard, we will become very tense and start complaining about headaches. Headaches come because we are getting too uptight. Mind has been able to do whatever it wanted for so long and now we are telling it to stay here quietly, so it gets angry.
If you start to get uptight while counting, stop counting and instead discuss with your mind: OK, now, I'm asking you nothing, so you have no good reason to complain. We can discuss like this because we are talking all the time in our head in much the same way, and we really have to find ways and means to make our mind understand why we are doing what we are doing.
Sometimes people want a lot of information and, accordingly, Lamas give them a lot of information, but I think this may create obstacles. If people asked less, I would give them less information and they would have a simple meditation. This would be the best. As far as Mahamudra is concerned, the great Indian Master Tilopa put it very simply: Don't speak, don't think, don't meditate! So simple! I am following this tradition but find myself giving students a hundred different methods! Students meditate and then come to me, Lama Yeshe, this breathing technique is not working for me, it's giving me a hard time. I then explain to them how to focus on an object. Then they look at it and it gets strange, changing form and colour.
If we become very rigid in our meditation or put too much effort into it, we will get these kinds of hallucinations. When this happens, we should stop focusing on the object and just relax. We should apply effort very gently. So, when this happens, they come to me again and say Lama Yeshe, this is driving me crazy, please give me another method. And I give them something else.
This is why we live in a world of abundant methods - because there are abundant needs and wants. People keep asking me for different methods and I keep giving them what they ask for, because that's the only way we can have some communication going on, but in the end, the same people complain, I don't like Tibetan Buddhism because it is so complicated. Why do we have to do all this? But I never asked them to do all this. I always taught them how to be simple. I told them from the very beginning that it must be simple.
So, to start with, make no complications, just sit at ease, completely relaxed physically and mentally. Do not engage in past or future, do not even count your breathing. Just do nothing


Simple guide on how to meditate.
Meditation is usfull for anyone, and you do not need to be a Buddhist to enjoy its benefits. It is a great way to relax, and a great way to help the mind find solutions to any problem. ?Please enjoy a little braek from the stress of everyday life.??Basic Meditation ?The most basic form of meditation involves attending to one's breath. ?Begin by sitting in a simple chair, keeping your back erect if you can. The more traditional postures are the lotus position, sitting on a pillow with each foot upon the opposite thigh, and variations such as the half lotus (one foot on the opposite thigh, the other out in front of the opposite knee). This is difficult for many people. Some people kneel, sitting back on their legs or on a pillow between their legs. Many use a meditation bench: kneel, then place a little bench beneath your behind. But meditation is also done while standing, slowly walking, lying on the floor, or even in a recliner! ?Traditionally, the hands are placed loosely, palms up, one on top of the other, and with the thumbs lightly touching. This is called the cosmic mudra, one of a large number of symbolic hand positions. You may prefer to lay them flat on your thighs, or any other way that you find comfortable. ?Your head should be upright, but not rigid. The eyes may be closed, or focussed on a spot on the ground a couple of feet ahead of you, or looking down at your hands. If you find yourself getting sleepy, keep your eyes open! ?Beginning meditators are often asked to count their breath, on the exhale, up to ten. Then you begin back at one. If you loose track, simply go back to one. Your breath should be slow and regular, but not forced or artificially controlled. Just breathe naturally and count. ?A few weeks later, you may forego the counting and try to simply follow your breath. Concentrate on it entering you and exiting you. Best is to be aware as fully as possible of the entire process of breathing, but most people focus on one aspect or another: the sensation of coolness followed by warmth at the nostrils, or the rise and fall of the diaphragm. Many meditators suggest imagining the air entering and exiting a small hole an inch or two below your navel. Keeping your mind lower on the body tends to lead to deeper meditation. If you are sleepy, then focus higher, such as at the nostrils. ?You will inevitably find yourself distracted by sounds around you and thoughts within. The way to handle them is to acknowledge them, but do not attach yourself to them. Do not get involved with them. Just let them be, let them go, and focus again on the breath. At first, it might be wise to scratch when you itch and wiggle when you get uncomfortable. Later, you will find that the same scant attention that you use for thoughts and sounds will work with physical feelings as well. ?A more advanced form of meditation is shikantaza, or emptiness meditation. Here, you don't follow anything at all. There is no concentration -- only quiet mindfulness. You hold your mind as if you were ready for things to happen, but don't allow your mind to become attached to anything. Things -- sounds, smells, aches, thoughts, images -- just drift in and out, like clouds in a light breeze. This is my own favorite. ?Many people have a hard time with their thoughts. We are so used to our hyperactive minds, that we barely notice the fact that they are usually roaring with activity. So, when we first sit and meditate, we are caught off guard by all the activity. So some people need to use a little imagination to help them meditate. For example, instead of counting or following your breath, you might prefer to imagine a peaceful scene, perhaps floating in a warm lagoon, until the noise of your mind quiets down. ?Meditate for fifteen minutes a day, perhaps early in the morning before the rest of the house wakes up, or late at night when everything has quieted down. If that's too much, do it once a week if you like. If you want, do more. Don't get frustrated. And don't get competitive, either. Don't start looking forward to some grand explosion of enlightenment. If you have great thoughts, fine. Write them down, if you like. Then go back to breathing. If you feel powerful emotions, wonderful. Then go back to breathing. The breathing is enlightenment.

kshiel

I recently recieved a Med. CD as a gift, it is a little strange to me, dont know if its a normal practice in some meditation tecniques (but probaly is in some cultures ) but in this tape you have to visualise yourself eating raw fish, swimming in cold water and nearly drowning and getting your hands cut on sharp rocks, been naked and cold and hungry, all above probally good for the soul but not very nice images to have or feel and quite un-neccessary in my opinion to get where you end up in the CD. Ok this CD is quite clearly not for me but has anyone else heard of Med. taking on this form of what I would call extreme measures.