A third Labour term - good or bad?

Rredwell

If Labour wins a third term on May 5th (very likely, according to the polls out today), will this be a victory for the left or not? Does the fact that The Sun is backing Blair mean New Labour is really a right-wing party? Or will the more socialist grassroots have a chance to reclaim the party under a Brown government?

Well we'd like to know what you think first.
What are your views on the matter?

mycroft

Earthman wrote:

Well we'd like to know what you think first.
What are your views on the matter?

Mods always sound like therapists when they say that.

Frankly it'll be another third way nonsense. Howard looks like he's dug himself into a BNP shaped hole, and the Lib Dem infrastructure isn't together enough to be a credible opposition yet.

Labours tactics to make this an election about world poverty is fantastic manevouring to win back disillusioned middle class voters worried about the war.

mr_angry

Anyone who remembers the Conservative government under Major should be praying for a third Labour term, in my opinion. I'm not overly fond of Blair, or his actions regarding the Iraq war, but lets not pretend the Conservatives would have done any different - they all backed the plan aswell!

A Dub in Glasgo

Certainly will not be a win for socialism if Blair gets back in. I know a lot of Labour party members who are totally and utterly disillusioned with 'New' Labour but under the FPTP system, Labour will triumph. I will certainly not be voting for them.

Dublin's Finest

The Third Way has worked quite well for Labour in the last 8 years. And I think Blair is the only man to move Briatin into the euro (if it's possible at all). He's made some diplomatic blunders (Iraq) but I think he is a pragmatic leader for Britain.

Howard is trying to capitalise on disgruntlement about immigartion. It's a cheap tactic.

I would be surprised if Labour lost.

RagShagBill

Labours tactics to make this an election about world poverty is fantastic manevouring to win back disillusioned middle class voters worried about the war.

Aye. But in fairness to Labour, on this issue, they have been quite good. They will hit 0.7 GDP by 2007 (I think that's the year anyway) and they had pledged to focus their EU presidency and G8 hosting on the issue long before the election was called. Also, the Tories have been more successful in getting the disillusioned back to Labour by putting imigration at the front of their campaign and being so extreme on it.

As for good or bad? Saying the Conservatives are terrible does not mean that Labour winning will be a good thing. Personally, I support them, but quite reluctantly. I'm beginning to change my mind on Iraq, but at the moment, I'm still against it. The Liberals are pledging to make Iraq the topic de jour for the next week or so, if they can get it onto and keep it on the agenda, I believe they will make some advances.

If I was living in England, I think I would vote Labour. They have managed to get 700,000 kids out of poverty and 700,000 pensioners out of poverty. They have slashed NHS waiting lists. The Tories giving out about MRSA is pretty stupid, they say they will bring back matrons or whatever, but MRSA cannot be killed by any cleaning agent, so how will getting a few more cleaning staff help?

Labour winning a third term is not a good thing, but it is better than the Tories coming back to power.

Shabadu

I don't understand why the lib dem's didn't manage to pull it together for this election. They had the potential to put up seriously credible opposition, but part of me feels that they blew it. If only more liberal parties had the balls and gumption of the more conservative ones. This seems to be the same the world over, fair play to Blair for being the only 'socialist' leader to have the tenacity to claim victory.

AngelofFire

Rredwell i would have serious doubts about brown`s socialist creditentials.

As a member of Irish Labour, i would be very reluctant to vote for its counterpart in britain. I think that they have moved so far to the right that theres no coming back for them. If i lived in Britain i`d probably vote for the Lib Dems, they are anti war, anti tution fees and support a graduated progressive taxation system.

RagShagBill

It's weird for the LibDems. The only reason they won't win the election is because people don't think other people will vote LibDem, therefore, they feel their vote would be wasted. Paradox I suppose?



I've had serious difficulty understanding what Paradox means for the last year or so, was I right to use to there?

Nuttzz

Any one who thinks labour are socialist are kidding themselves, ask yourself how many wars has Tony being involved in (More than Maggies could manage)

Dublin's Finest

Nuttzz wrote:

Any one who thinks labour are socialist are kidding themselves

True. The fact that Blair's used a pick 'n mix approach to his policies is probably NL's strength. They've stolen policies that have traditionally been conservative.

There definitely NOT 'pure' socialists though.

RagShagBill

Nuttzz wrote:

Any one who thinks labour are socialist are kidding themselves, ask yourself how many wars has Tony being involved in (More than Maggies could manage)

While you are right in saying that Labour is not a socialist party anymore, (nor does it claim to be to the best of my knowledge, not since they changed Clause IX) I think you have given the wrong argument. Socialists can go to war.

mycroft

AngelofFire wrote:

Rredwell i would have serious doubts about brown`s socialist creditentials.

As a member of Irish Labour, i would be very reluctant to vote for its counterpart in britain. I think that they have moved so far to the right that theres no coming back for them. If i lived in Britain i`d probably vote for the Lib Dems, they are anti war, anti tution fees and support a graduated progressive taxation system.

Actually a friend is a labour party worker, and I was fairly stunned to learn that the Irish labour party are sending him to work on the Uk campaign. Theres still ties between labour Ireland and labour uk.

Poor guy was very anti war and is being sent to a margial seat labour lost to the lib dems during a by election because of the war he's holding his noise, and resolving to learn from labour uk election tactics.

I was suprised that labour Ireland and Labour uk still had ties, till i thought about current irish labour party leaders.

I don't understand why the lib dem's didn't manage to pull it together for this election. They had the potential to put up seriously credible opposition, but part of me feels that they blew it. If only more liberal parties had the balls and gumption of the more conservative ones. This seems to be the same the world over, fair play to Blair for being the only 'socialist' leader to have the tenacity to claim victory.

Partially they lacked the balls to seize on the anti war message because they could end up sharing the same platform as respect (a paper thin party)

A Dub in Glasgo

mycroft wrote:

Actually a friend is a labour party worker, and I was fairly stunned to learn that the Irish labour party are sending him to work on the Uk campaign. Theres still ties between labour Ireland and labour uk.

Poor guy was very anti war and is being sent to a margial seat labour lost to the lib dems during a by election because of the war he's holding his noise, and resolving to learn from labour uk election tactics.

Has your mate not heard of the option of refusing to go?

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Has your mate not heard of the option of refusing to go?

Its a career. I wouldn't argue I recently got taught a lesson in the value in studying how the opposition works from the inside.

From a careerist politican move it's very canny. Labour stratgeist rewrote the face of british politics in the late 90s. Remember the moment Portillo lost his seat.

You're a labour party member the sight of Mc Dowell losing his seat, might be worth shoveling some **** for......

Also when has your boss accepted "I don't wanna" as an excuse

DadaKopf

a dub in glasgow wrote:

Has your mate not heard of the option of refusing to go?

Well, the Labour movement is ostensibly an internationalist movement, so this sort of thing is normal and a central part of labour politics. And I'm sure the Irish Labour party wouldn't mind learning a few tricks from those slicksters in London.

Nuttzz

RagShagBill wrote:

While you are right in saying that Labour is not a socialist party anymore, (nor does it claim to be to the best of my knowledge, not since they changed Clause IX) I think you have given the wrong argument. Socialists can go to war.

I know they can, but going to war was always seen as a right wing mindset, with the left opposing it. However Britian (if memory serves me correctly) have been in Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan & Iraq since Tony came to since 1999 (6 years), under recent Tory governments (since Maggie came to power 1979-1997, 18 years) they were in the Falklands, Bosnia & Iraq (Desert Storm)