Nintendo???

Cake Fiend

MobileInfantry wrote:

On that topic, the cube minidiscs are one of the most horrible implemation into a new nintendo age. What were they thinking, after the defeat that cartidge use laid at their door..... :rolleyes:

Explain this?

Is this supposed to mean that Nintendo gamers should give a crap whether their games console plays DVDs?

koneko

MobileInfantry wrote:

Not really. In the home enviroment you'd watch alot of movies really, but how many times are you honestly going to watch a movie on your PSP? What you are saying is true, its a great feature, but not as important to the PSP as DVD playback is to the Ps2.

See, what you're doing is taking what YOU would and wouldn't do, and applying it to everyone else. Plenty of people will watch movies on their PSPs when they're on the bus, train, plain, whatever, waiting in queues, inbetween lectures, anywhere you're waiting and would otherwise be fiddling with your phone or playing snake.

There are portable players *dedicated* to playing movies/shows alone, why is it so farfetched that this is something people will want to do, except they don't need to shell out $400 for a seperate unit, their portable games console can already do it.

petes

I for one never gave a crap that my gamecube didnt play dvds. Thats what I used my DVD player for.

Fysh

petes wrote:

I for one never gave a crap that my gamecube didnt play dvds. Thats what I used my DVD player for.

And I for one did. Yes, I had a computer at the time (and now have 2) that can play DVDs. That computer didn't have a graphics card that could output onto a TV screen. So my options for DVD-viewing goodness (a popular interest with the same main target audience as gaming) were to watch on PC monitor or get a dvd player. PS2 owners didn't face that problem.

If you're given the choice of one device that does two things, or two devices that do one thing, which purchase sounds better? Until you throw in the non-equal games catalogue, the multifunctional device wins : at least for the casual gamers. Nintendo is basically banking on people valuing its range of games more than they value their cash (since buying a DS means your handheld won't let you do any other things that are possible in a portable context). If the games are worth it, fine. But frankly, I've not yet been convinced.

TerrorFirmer

There are portable players *dedicated* to playing movies/shows alone, why is it so farfetched that this is something people will want to do, except they don't need to shell out $400 for a seperate unit, their portable games console can already do it.

Too many innappropriate comparison in this thread. A dedicated portable player will play real DVDs and CDs. PSP plays movies off a memory stick. Hardly the same.

Is this supposed to mean that Nintendo gamers should give a crap whether their games console plays DVDs?

You or I mightn't give a crap, but as said before, its very important that a console plays DVDs to the general gaming population. And I was just saying after loosing out by using cartidges, they should have gone the safe approach and used regular discs, allowing also for playback of movies.

The pathetic performance of the cube alongside the ps2 and xbox saleswise reflects it.

koneko

MobileInfantry wrote:

Too many innappropriate comparison in this thread. A dedicated portable player will play real DVDs and CDs. PSP plays movies off a memory stick. Hardly the same.

Actually, no, I'm not talking about a portable DVD player, but a portable divx/file player, like the Portable Media Centers. If I was talking about a portable DVD player, then I would have said "portable DVD player".

Accept that your uses of devices aren't exactly the same as everyone else's, and there is no "right" answer here. Different people have different needs, and video playback can be very useful for some people.

Fysh

MobileInfantry wrote:

Too many innappropriate comparison in this thread. A dedicated portable player will play real DVDs and CDs. PSP plays movies off a memory stick. Hardly the same.

Yeah, but other multifunction devices like high-end mobile phone/PDAs will play videos off MMC/SD cards (I know the Siemens SX1 will, the N-gage has already been mentioned, and I'm pretty sure theres a few others too). The benefit being down to the ability to have multiple files stored on one memory stick (which, as the space available on memory sticks increases, will become more and more relevant). It's not that difficult a function to incorporate, and given the existing market for dedicated portable mp3 or movie players (and again the shared prime target audience for these kind of devices and portable game machines) I would say that a device that does this sort of multifunctionality has a market advantage. It remains to be seen whether the innovation of the DS can compete with this.

I would also argue, for the record, that anywhere you're in a position to think "I wish I had a game", people would also conceivably think "I wish I had a film to watch/music or radio to listen to/book to read/". The fact that you don't want to watch a film on the bus doesn't mean that you might not fancy watching, say, an episode of Red Dwarf or South Park or something. Or that someone might be open to more than gaming as an idea for portable entertainment. Which, after all, is what portable gaming is. Sony have just decided to target more of the portable entertainment market than Nintendo, and I don't really get why it's being met with such aggression by gamers.

Personally, I'd kind of like to see innovative game design thrive, but I think that it'll take more than a portable console with a second touch screen to bring this about. Realistically it requires developers to be in a position that they can take risks - and being serious, if you have a game budget of 10 million dollars do you really want to be the guy who spearheaded a spectacularly original but ultimately unpopular game project with tanked and ended up as a massive loss? This is the kind of thinking big companies use when developing high cost games, and unfortunately it means that people like EA use it to justify releasing another identikit sports license game.

(Regarding the multifunctionality argument, I should add that in a lot of cases multifunction devices fail by not doing their functions well - a good example being multimedia cameraphones that try to compete with mp3 players and digicams by offering one device that requires external storage to hold any serious amount of mp3s and gives you a crappy 1.3mpx camera with roughly webcam-type quality. Anyone who really uses any of these functions will go for a dedicated device because for the time being the multifunction device specs don't compare.

As portable tech improves its specs, we'll get to the stage where multifunction devices can compete with dedicated devices adequately, at least for the non-specialist market. I think the PSP is a good example of this, and I haven't been convinced otherwise by the pro-DS camp's arguments.)

Cake Fiend

I'm personally more glad that Nintendo didn't waste my money by charging me extra for something I didn't want (and making me end up with a big black brick instead of a nice dinky cube).

MobileInfantry wrote:

The pathetic performance of the cube alongside the ps2 and xbox saleswise reflects it.

So you really believe a significant reason Gamecube sales flagged was because it didn't play DVDs?

Fysh

Sico wrote:

I'm personally more glad that Nintendo didn't waste my money by charging me extra for something I didn't want (and making me end up with a big black brick instead of a nice dinky cube).

So you really believe a significant reason Gamecube sales flagged was because it didn't play DVDs?

Not by itself, but : if you're a casual gamer looking for a console cos you don't want to fork out for a PC, and you find you've got the options of Sony and Nintendo, but that the Nintendo one has a much smaller range of games, and then someone points out that the Sony one plays DVDs as well, which one seems like a better choice?

The only reason I bought a Cube was because I checked the gameslists and found that there were about 10 titles I wanted and decided they were enough to justify getting the console when argos had it going cheap. I didn't realise at the time it didn't play DVDs and I found this faintly annoying because I'd assumed it was pretty much standard - my own fault I realise, but still a bit of a daft decision from nintendo, especially when they'd already made a dumb decision by opting for cartridges for the N64 instead of CDs. I daresay hardcore gamers would already have decided whether the Nintendo titles were worth enough to them to get the console or not, but in terms of the wider casual gamer market it's an extra factor that might put you off.

Retr0gamer

If you really are interested in watching DVDs you would have a higher quality standalone DVD player. The quality from consoles especially the PS2 is terrible.

However your point about the DVD play back is a valid one. Joe soap is going to think that it's great that he can finally watch DVDs on his console but won't realise the quality is so poor that he might as well be using VHS.

Dbones

anyone remeber the sega nomad... the game gear sequel that played genesis games?

Retr0gamer

Yep. Only sold in Japan and America. Eats batteries like a fat kid eats pies.

uberpixie

Fysh wrote:

Not by itself, but : if you're a casual gamer looking for a console cos you don't want to fork out for a PC, and you find you've got the options of Sony and Nintendo, but that the Nintendo one has a much smaller range of games, and then someone points out that the Sony one plays DVDs as well, which one seems like a better choice?

The only reason I bought a Cube was because I checked the gameslists and found that there were about 10 titles I wanted and decided they were enough to justify getting the console when argos had it going cheap. I didn't realise at the time it didn't play DVDs and I found this faintly annoying because I'd assumed it was pretty much standard - my own fault I realise, but still a bit of a daft decision from nintendo, especially when they'd already made a dumb decision by opting for cartridges for the N64 instead of CDs. I daresay hardcore gamers would already have decided whether the Nintendo titles were worth enough to them to get the console or not, but in terms of the wider casual gamer market it's an extra factor that might put you off.

People who can't afford pc's buy xboxes :-)

The use of the smaller disks for the cube, was to make piracy harder by using a propritary format of their own, instead of using off the shelf dvds.

Nintendo's problem is that they only ever really appeal to hardcore nintendo fans.

They never seemed to gain the kind of mass following after the snes.

Doubt the revolution will change this. But hopefully we will get some fantastic titles out of it.

At the end of the day, for me, a friend put it best. "when nintendo fall out of the console market it's the last time I buy a console"

Fysh

uberpixie wrote:

People who can't afford pc's buy xboxes :-)

The use of the smaller disks for the cube, was to make piracy harder by using a propritary format of their own, instead of using off the shelf dvds.

Nintendo's problem is that they only ever really appeal to hardcore nintendo fans.

I suspected as much in terms of the discs, but it's not like it would have been difficult to incorporate the ability to read DVDs along the way. Not if the functionality can be restored by getting the damn thing modchipped, at any rate.

uberpixie wrote:

They never seemed to gain the kind of mass following after the snes.

Doubt the revolution will change this. But hopefully we will get some fantastic titles out of it.

At the end of the day, for me, a friend put it best. "when nintendo fall out of the console market it's the last time I buy a console"

Well, fine. If you're willing to write off every other console apart from the ones made by one company, so be it. Do you also refuse to watch programmes aired only on TV3 or any other given channel, on principle? I mean fine if you're that devoted to Nintendo, but I've never understood that rabid thing myself - you just end up missing out on quality games.

Hugh Hefner

uberpixie wrote:

At the end of the day, for me, a friend put it best. "when nintendo fall out of the console market it's the last time I buy a console"

Here here.

BloodBath

"Many games wont be able to take advantage ot dual screens. Developers arent going to change the way they make games." Surely it should be up to the developers to think about new ways to make games for dual screen instead of releasing the same old drivel as before. This would be the way forward. Innovative thinking is what is required. They are not limiting developers to what they can do

The fact that you can't focus on two screens at the same time is a limiting factor. In my opinion this makes it pretty pointless. I could see a couple of good applications for it like in a stategy game you could keep an eye on 2 areas without having to move about but this is one of very few I can think of. Not to mention 2 different scenes would have to be rendered cutting the graphics capability in half.

At the end of the day, for me, a friend put it best. "when nintendo fall out of the console market it's the last time I buy a console"

Even if they started making games on other consoles like sega? Tbh Nintendo software is and always has been great but the hardware just ain't what it used to be. It probably won't make a difference though. Nintendo fanboys are the most hardcore of them all.


BloodBath

uberpixie

Fysh wrote:

Well, fine. If you're willing to write off every other console apart from the ones made by one company, so be it. Do you also refuse to watch programmes aired only on TV3 or any other given channel, on principle? I mean fine if you're that devoted to Nintendo, but I've never understood that rabid thing myself - you just end up missing out on quality games.

Brothers have a ps2 at home. Housemate has an xbox. Don't like the style of games on them.

Each console has a style of it's own: I like Nintendo's.

BloodBath wrote:

Even if they started making games on other consoles like sega? Tbh Nintendo software is and always has been great but the hardware just ain't what it used to be. It probably won't make a difference though. Nintendo fanboys are the most hardcore of them all.

Sega seem to be a shadow of their former selves after the dreamcast. Not sure how well nintendo would do. How many good games have sega made post dreamcast?

I would agree that nintendo fanboys are the hardest diehards of them all :-)

Only other company to inspire so much loyalty was Sega.

Especially in the snes Vs megadrive days.

Shame the dreamcast bit the dust. Great console. Nearly caused me to fail 2nd year :-)

Fysh

uberpixie wrote:

Brothers have a ps2 at home. Housemate has an xbox. Don't like the style of games on them.

Each console has a style of it's own: I like Nintendo's.

Weirdly, while I readily admit that I bought my Gamecube because there were about 6 games at the time that I wanted enough to justify the purchase, I can't really believe that you'll just dismiss both platforms like that, because the "style of games" on them are crap. They are open to 3rd party developers, you know - and while I don't know enough first-hand Xbox titles to defend it (and by all means haven't heard that many great things about it) I can remember spending countless hours during my last year in college playing a wide range of games on my housemate's PS2. Fair enough if you like Nintendo games in particular; I just don't understand dismissing an entire system because it's basically "not Nintendo".

uberpixie wrote:

Sega seem to be a shadow of their former selves after the dreamcast. Not sure how well nintendo would do. How many good games have sega made post dreamcast?

Well, they were involved in F Zero GX to some extent (oddly enough), but I don't know what else they've done....shadow of their former selves is about right, I reckon.

uberpixie wrote:

I would agree that nintendo fanboys are the hardest diehards of them all :-)
Only other company to inspire so much loyalty was Sega.
Especially in the snes Vs megadrive days.
Shame the dreamcast bit the dust. Great console. Nearly caused me to fail 2nd year :-)

I didn't think so before (chiefly down to seeing game forums filled with "PS2 RULZ the GAYCUBE;s asss" etc), but I'm starting to turn. Who knew the company could inspire such devotion (particularly the blind kind evidenced in many of the DS vs PSP discussions)?

I actually kind of miss the Sega vs Nintendo rivalry, because at least back then people were forced to concede that both sides had good games. These days the argument seems to be basically that if you "get" Nintendo games you'll understand why the PS2 and Xbox suck, and as soon as you defend them your opinion seems to be pretty much ignored or dismissed. And I have had several people try to claim that there hasn't yet been a decent game on the PS1 or the PS2 (a notion which, frankly, makes me laugh). Although maybe I'm the dumb one for arguing with fanboys in the first place...

And yeah, it was a shame the DC went the way of the dodo. I'm surprised the GC hasn't done the same thing by now, in fact. In a good way, though, given I own one

Dbones

nintendo will never die as long as the almighty gameboy reigns supreme... ask sega...

iregk

The amount of fanboy nature in this thread is unreal.

Now i'd like to say that I am not a fanboy at all as i have owned a lot of consoles, nes, megadrive, ps, xbox to name some. Unlike a lot of people I can actually look at this with unbiased eyes.

Some have said that Nintendo completely lack originality while Sony is obviously leading the way here. Yeah they are aren't they, they have used the same controller for the past 10 years, re-released the ps1 three times and the ps2 is currently on its second time around. The fact that they are not allowed to use the dual shock for ps3 may force them to actually think.

Nintendo have constantly inovated. Every console they come up with at least 1 completely genuine idea. Granted the game sector for them seems to be off the rails these days. The small disk idea in the game cube appeared to be a woeful idea, but the sucessor to the gameboy (no its not the ds) is due out end of year and it uses the mini discs. So basically the entire cube catelogue will play on the new game boy. As for the revolution, well the rumours ive heard sound good but only time will tell.

Microsoft seem to be doing what everyone screamed out for in the original xbox. The xbox 360 will be the complete media center solution. This is a huge plus!!! The original xbox in my opinion is the best of the three but it can be broken down like this. If you want originality and good games buy Nintendo. If you want a sport sim with updated names and colours every single year buy Sony. If you want a media center solution and the best graphics and sound on the market but not necessarily the best games buy Microsoft.

BloodBath

The only fanboys are the Nintendo ones tbh. I myself am completely unbiased. I've owned a lot of consoles over the years and always go for what imo is the best although I probably won't get any of the next gen machines. I have a complete media centre as it is. I don't need another one and I think I can survive not playing the latest zelda or mario incarnation, although I wish I still had a ps2 so I could play mgs3


BloodBath

Retr0gamer

BloodBath wrote:

The only fanboys are the Nintendo ones tbh. I myself am completely unbiased. I've owned a lot of consoles over the years and always go for what imo is the best although I probably won't get any of the next gen machines. I have a complete media centre as it is. I don't need another one and I think I can survive not playing the latest zelda or mario incarnation, although I wish I still had a ps2 so I could play mgs3

So you went for the best, the xbox ? :rolleyes:

uberpixie

Fysh wrote:

Weirdly, while I readily admit that I bought my Gamecube because there were about 6 games at the time that I wanted enough to justify the purchase, I can't really believe that you'll just dismiss both platforms like that, because the "style of games" on them are crap. They are open to 3rd party developers, you know - and while I don't know enough first-hand Xbox titles to defend it (and by all means haven't heard that many great things about it) I can remember spending countless hours during my last year in college playing a wide range of games on my housemate's PS2. Fair enough if you like Nintendo games in particular; I just don't understand dismissing an entire system because it's basically "not Nintendo".

I never said they were crap. I just said i did not like them. There is a difference.

It's not like I have only ever played the cube and nothing else: I have played both other consoles.

Tusky

http://cube.ign.com/articles/607/607437p1.html

Kazaanova

Maybe we're all picking it up wrong. Maybe the 3D stuff will only be a very small thing, like the EyeToy is to the PS2.


And as someone who has had a Gamecube and played maybe 6 games on it, I dont know a lot about Nintendo. But can someone explain to me how the games on the Gamecube have been original. They just seem to be the same recycled kiddy platform **** over and over again.

If you want a media center solution and the best graphics and sound on the market but not necessarily the best games buy Microsoft.

I dont get this at all. What do you mean by "media center solution". The Xbox has always aimed to be just a gaming machine. Its the PS2 has always been the jack of all trades. And gamewise, its just ignorant to say that the Xbox doesnt have a lot of good games. At the end of the day, when its all said and done, anyone who has an Xbox has their pick from: Halo, Fable, Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, Ninja Gaiden, Jade Empire, Brothers in Arms, Morrowind, Doom III, Foroza Motorsport, Half Life 2, Chronicles of Riddick, Kingdom Under Fire. Not to mention a lot more great games that are available on other consoles. The Gamecube has a lot of good games I'll admit, and so does the PS2, but please, don't say that the Xbox doesnt.

BloodBath

So you went for the best, the xbox ?

I've actually had all 3 of the last gen consoles at one stage or another. I can't say any of them were bad. All 3 had great titls that I really enjoyed.


BloodBath

Kazaanova

I'm in the same boat as you BloodBath. I'd agree with you.

Unless you're really only a sports gamer, or a action gamer etc., then you cant really "lose out" by only having a Gamecube, or a Xbox. But I really havent seen the average gamer, non-nintendo fan by satisfied with just a Gamecube. Not only have I seen a lot of people buy a Gamecube, then sell it, I've seen people who had a PS2 or Xbox, buy a Gamecube aswell and even then sell it.

koneko

You are very much limiting yourself if you're sticking to only having a Gamecube. Plenty of Nintendo fans around here will admit that aswell. You're missing out on great games that are (or were) only available on other consoles, like Ico, Halo, GTA, Jade Empire, KOTOR, Doom 3 (...), the list goes on.

I mean, it's like saying "I love films!" and then only watching films released by one studio. It doesn't make any sense.

Ciaran500

Kazaanova wrote:

But can someone explain to me how the games on the Gamecube have been original. They just seem to be the same recycled kiddy platform **** over and over again.

You played 6 games and you are labeling all the games on the console "recycled kiddy platform ****" :rolleyes:

Kazaanova wrote:

I dont get this at all. What do you mean by "media center solution". The Xbox has always aimed to be just a gaming machine. Its the PS2 has always been the jack of all trades.

When you mod a Xbox it can become a complete media centre. What you mean the PS2 is the jack of all trades? They both play DVDs and music CD's and you can rip music onto your Xbox.

hal9000

fe fi fo fum, I the smell the blood of fanboys!