Premier League oppose Reds' Champions League bid

egan007

So liverpool will not be granted entry into next years CL if the win it.
I say > Horse ****, winning the CL is a greater achievement than finishing fourth in the league and should be duly rewarded

Story.....

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/04/27/story200004.html

The Premier League will resist any efforts to award Liverpool a place in next season’s Champions League should they win the competition this season but finish out of the top four in the Premiership.

The Football Association’s board are due to discuss the issue at a meeting tomorrow but will not make any decision until at least the semi-final between Chelsea and Liverpool has been played.

The dilemma is that Everton are favourites to finish fourth but were Liverpool to win the Champions League they could present a strong case for playing in the tournament next season.

Should those circumstances arise, it would be up to the FA board to decide but the Premier League – who have four seats on the board – feel strongly it should go to the fourth-placed side...................

uberwolf

UEFA guidelines:

At the request of the national association concerned, the Uefa Champions League title-holders may be entered for this competition, as an additional representative of that association, if they have not qualified for the Uefa Champions League via the top domestic league championship.

"If, in such a case, the title-holders come from an association entitled to enter four teams for the Uefa Champions League, the fourth-placed club in the top domestic league championship has to be entered for the Uefa Cup."

RuggieBear

uberwolf wrote:

UEFA guidelines:

At the request of the national association concerned, the Uefa Champions League title-holders may be entered for this competition, as an additional representative of that association, if they have not qualified for the Uefa Champions League via the top domestic league championship.

"If, in such a case, the title-holders come from an association entitled to enter four teams for the Uefa Champions League, the fourth-placed club in the top domestic league championship has to be entered for the Uefa Cup."

well that sounds pretty clear cut...so what's all the furore about?

uberwolf

furore is that the FA has to decide between Pool and Everton if it comes down to it.
The precedent set in Spain is that title holders go through.
It would be harsh on Everton.
TBH it should be Arsenal who are turfed out. They've consistently shown they've nothing to add to the CL except to frustrate their own supporters

RuggieBear

uberwolf wrote:

furore is that the FA has to decide between Pool and Everton if it comes down to it.
The precedent set in Spain is that title holders go through.
It would be harsh on Everton.
TBH it should be Arsenal who are turfed out. They've consistently shown they've nothing to add to the CL except to frustrate their own supporters

So that means the guidelines aren't worth squat.....I thought UEFA stated

"If, in such a case, the title-holders come from an association entitled to enter four teams for the Uefa Champions League, the fourth-placed club in the top domestic league championship has to be entered for the Uefa Cup

Draupnir

this will be settled by Mourinho and his lads tonight anyway, so there isnt much point in a furore

Drag00n79

IF (and it's a big if!) Liverpool go on to win the Champions League I think it would be a travesty if the winners of the most prestigious club tournament in world football were not allowed to defend it the following year.

uberwolf

RuggieBear wrote:

So that means the guidelines aren't worth squat.....I thought UEFA stated

the second paragraph refers to the case presented in the first paragraph. Namely that the title holders may enter through that route only on request of the FA.

RuggieBear

Draupnir wrote:

this will be settled by Mourinho and his lads tonight anyway, so there isnt much point in a furore

tbh i agree but liverpool have been written off countless times this season. I'd quite like liverpool to win it coz it would really irk man u fans but then i'm a small small man

RuggieBear

uberwolf wrote:

the second paragraph refers to the case presented in the first paragraph. Namely that the title holders may enter through that route only on request of the FA.

ah ok...wondering what all the fuss was about if there were UEFA edicts stating what was to happen.

WhiteWashMan

egan007 wrote:

I say > Horse ****, winning the CL is a greater achievement than finishing fourth in the league and should be duly rewarded

so you think if liverpool cant even get high enough in their league to earn a place in the champions league, they should be given one because they won it the previous year?

why?

i would have thought winning the premier league was more important to any team.

looks to me like the liverpool faithful are still having thoughts above their station.
although, lets face it, rafa and the boys have been teasing their fans all year with this ridiculous run inthe CL.

im sure the boys in blue will sort them out tonight. im going for a 3-0 chelsea win

Draupnir

im a manu fan and id prefer liverpool to win it than chelsea actually. cant see it happening though.

as for allowing the team to defend the "most prestigious" tournament blah blah blah, thats a load of crap. National teams dont even get to defend the World Cup anymore and thats more prestigious. Anyway, Liverpool havent earned qualification. Theyve beaten a few mediocre teams in this years Champs League and beaten the most creatively average Juve team Ive seen since the mid nineties.

Fair play to them though, Id actually almost like to see them do well tonight.

egan007

You make no sence
Everton get it because how they preformed the previous year - which is fourth place
I'm suggesting that Winning the CL is a greater achievement than a fourth place finish.

Is that 3-0 over the 2 legs or tonight?

eirebhoy

Shamrok wrote:

IF (and it's a big if!) Liverpool go on to win the Champions League I think it would be a travesty if the winners of the most prestigious club tournament in world football were not allowed to defend it the following year.

Greece might not be able to defend their title at Euro 2008 either. A country has to qualify for the EC/WC now even if they win the tournament.

I think Everton deserve the CL spot if they finish 4th.

BaZmO*

Quick question to the Liverpool fans that are bitching about not being allowed into the CL league next year if they win.

Just suppose that Utd., Arsenal or Chelsea won the the CL this year but only finished 5th behind Liverpool, would you gladly give up your CL spot next year so that the winners could defend their title even though they couldn't manage to finish 4th?

B.

uberwolf

BaZmO* wrote:

Quick question to the Liverpool fans that are bitching about not being allowed into the CL league next year if they win.

no one is bitching about a decision that hasn't been made yet. :rolleyes:
I reckon liverpool have more chance of getting 4th than winning the CL TBH.
And I reckon I'd take winning it this year over qualifying next year.

pickarooney

How about they let Liverpool into it and give Everton all the cash they win from it (or vice versa) ?

BaZmO*

egan007 wrote:

So liverpool will not be granted entry into next years CL if the win it.
I say > Horse ****, winning the CL is a greater achievement than finishing fourth in the league and should be duly rewarded

uberwolf wrote:

no one is bitching about a decision that hasn't been made yet.

Actually yeah, sorry you're right and I'm wrong nobody is bitching at all!! :rolleyes:

B.

uberwolf

egan is man, and men don't bitch.

Cyrus

if liverpool win it i dont care whether we get it next year or not it wont matter, i mean we arent likely to win it back to back anyway

Everton wont get past the qualifiers as they have no seeding and they wont be near 4th spot next year, let em in itll be the last time for a long time

BrookieD

My friend from the lucky room has just informed me that Slysports news have just reported that the FA have stated that if we win the Champions League and Everton finish 4th we WILL be in it next season, and they'll be in the UEFA cup

quarryman

Shamrok wrote:

IF (and it's a big if!) Liverpool go on to win the Champions League I think it would be a travesty if the winners of the most prestigious club tournament in world football were not allowed to defend it the following year.

"were not allowed"?

of course they're allowed. who's stopping them?

but they have to finish 4th in their league to do it. end of story.

My friend from the lucky room has just informed me that Slysports news have just reported that the FA have stated that if we win the Champions League and Everton finish 4th we WILL be in it next season, and they'll be in the UEFA cup

probably a safe bet since its less likely to happen. I'd imagine the FA will have their fingers crossed that it doesn't though.

opr

BrookieD wrote:

My friend from the lucky room has just informed me that Slysports news have just reported that the FA have stated that if we win the Champions League and Everton finish 4th we WILL be in it next season, and they'll be in the UEFA cup

Got any links on this ? If it true thats great news

milltown

I'd settle for winning it this year and sitting it out next year. Let Everton bask in the glory of their two qualifying games while we try and mount some sort of a challenge for the league. The way the Everton fans tell it, it's Liverpool's fault they didn't win it a couple of years on the trot after Heysel anyway.

WhiteWashMan

egan007 wrote:

You make no sence
Everton get it because how they preformed the previous year - which is fourth place
I'm suggesting that Winning the CL is a greater achievement than a fourth place finish.

Is that 3-0 over the 2 legs or tonight?

yes. its a tournament based on how you do in the league, not in a cup run. of course i make sense, you just dont want to see it.

3-0 to chelsea tonight.

and now that its official that liverpool would get in over everton, i defiantely want anyone bar liverpool to swin it.
everton deserve their shot for being consistantly better than liverpool this year.

jank

TBH it should be Arsenal who are turfed out. They've consistently shown they've nothing to add to the CL except to frustrate their own supporters

Lol id alomost agree with you there, But they need the money though

egan007

WhiteWashMan wrote:

yes. its a tournament based on how you do in the league, not in a cup run. of course i make sense, you just dont want to see it.

3-0 to chelsea tonight.

and now that its official that liverpool would get in over everton, i defiantely want anyone bar liverpool to swin it.
everton deserve their shot for being consistantly better than liverpool this year.

It has always been the unwritten rule that winning it the previous year is a measure of standard. It's taken into account that focusing on winning that competition may make your league form suffer.
So it has not been solely dependent on a teams league form in the past.

Whay not make some money - it's 10-1 for 3-0 tonight - seeing you are so sure of the result. Maybe call murinio and tell him as well?
Or why not just get a I hate liverpool tatoo?

theCzar

as far as i know the rule is that the top 4 teams get into the champions league.

it was always presumed that the winner would be one of those, but there's no official ruling that the winner has to qualify automatically.

I'm biased of course. kopite scum

i want chelsea to win tonight, but not by too much, so liverpool are incouraged to forsake their league form until the next leg, where they get comprehensively hammered, and it's too late to make it up in the league.

BaZmO*

If I were you mate I'd edit your post!

B.

Third_Echelon

Cyrus wrote:

Everton wont get past the qualifiers as they have no seeding and they wont be near 4th spot next year, let em in itll be the last time for a long time

I'd replace the batteries in your crystal ball if i were you.... :rolleyes:

Cyrus

my crystal ball is working fine

Third_Echelon

Cyrus wrote:

my crystal ball is working fine

does it have red tinted glass by any chance?

Jivin Turkey

Well, so it draws possibly closer.

And in all honesty, and supporting them doesnt make a difference, but if Liverpool win the CL they are definately more deserving of a place in the competition next year over Everton (should they finish fourth).

I can understand why Everton fans would be incredibly frustrated but to be honest the sooner 4th place is no longer seen as an achievement, and a goal to strive for, the better. Thats why I wont be too disappointed if Liverpool dont make it anyway, because at least then they wont have the distraction next year and can have a good go at at the league.

Even if it came down to it, Id accept a play-off. Just out of curiousity would Everton fans agree?

Comparisons to international football are stupid because it was recognised that automatic qualification for tournaments for the holders was unfavourable due to the lack of competitive preparatory games, so lets just put that to bed.

And even if the 4th place team was allowed into the CL instead of Liverpool, Id be happy to bask in the glory of Liverpool being the undisputed champions of Europe for another season.

Draupnir

arrggghhh people deluding themselves alert!!!

if djimi traore gets a champions league winners medal, im burning my football boots and eating the ashes in a curry.

Jivin Turkey

Draupnir wrote:

arrggghhh people deluding themselves alert!!!

if djimi traore gets a champions league winners medal, im burning my football boots and eating the ashes in a curry.

People could say the same about the likes of Kleberson/Roque Junior and a WC medal. At least they wouldnt be hungry.

Draupnir

theres a difference, they are decent players. Jimi traore wouldnt get a game in 50% of the pub teams in the 15 acres most sundays.

Jivin Turkey

Draupnir wrote:

theres a difference, they are decent players. Jimi traore wouldnt get a game in 50% of the pub teams in the 15 acres most sundays.

Not really, while Djimi isnt the slickest of players, he makes some vital tackles and plays simple balls. Nothing flash, ever. But its effective most of the time.

But I fail to see how Traores ability makes odds to who gets the CL place.

leeroybrown

Cyrus wrote:

if liverpool win it i dont care whether we get it next year or not it wont matter, i mean we arent likely to win it back to back anyway

So you're happy to see the £XX million in TV money disappearing out of Rafa's transfer kitty. You need a good run in the UEFA cup to generate the kind of cash that the CL group stages are worth.

egan007

WhiteWashMan wrote:

3-0 to chelsea tonight.

Looks like a contender for quote of the season.
Close.......

Guy:Incognito

theCzar wrote:

as far as i know the rule is that the top 4 teams get into the champions league..

Fraid not. The FA get to choose the team. If they want they could put Barnet into it.

galwaydude

lads before someone starts a riot regarding the CL spot for next season.Liverpol if we beat $chelsea next week still have a certain milan team to contend with unless psv roll them over and thats no easy task.
Just to put my point of view across, if we liverpool win the CL this season then we deserve to be in the competition next season.If not then whats the point of the competion then? if the winners arent in it.Isnt it a bit ironic that liverpool have lost most of their matches straight after a champs league match.

Cant wait till next weeks match.Come on the pool!!

A Dub in Glasgo

Stekelly wrote:

Fraid not. The FA get to choose the team. If they want they could put Barnet into it.

The English FA rules state that the top 4 teams will be entered into the CL. However, they may drop the 4th place team in favour of an English CL winner if said winner is not good enough to get into the top 4. Unless the EFA change their rules, they cannot put anyteam they want into the CL. I have pointed this out to you in the other thread as well.

TheMonster

Desn't look likely
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/liverpool/story.jsp?story=633641

Liverpool are almost certain to miss out on the Champions' League next season if they finish outside the top four in the Premiership even if they win the competition this season.

The FA board is due to discuss the issue at a meeting today, but will not make any decision at least until the semi-final between Chelsea and Liverpool has been played. However, the Premier League would resist any attempt to remove Champions' League qualification from the side that finishes fourth. The dilemma is that Everton are favourites to finish fourth. If Liverpool were to win the Champions' League they could present a strong case for playing in the tournament next season. It would be up to the FA board to decide but the Premier League feels strongly it should go to the fourth-placed side.

"I'm sure the board will take the view that the top four should go into the Champions' League," one neutral club chairman said. "That was the rule everybody was playing by at the start of the season. I can't see the board giving the place to Liverpool if they get to the final and win because they won't have qualified through the League* even the World Cup winners have to qualify for the next tournament now." The FA has asked Uefa, the European game's governing body, if it can enter five clubs into the Champions' League should Liverpool win the tournament, but that plea is certain to be rejected as the rules clearly state that a maximum of four clubs per country is allowed. The regulations also stress that it will be up to the FA board to decide the teams in question. "At the request of the national association concerned," the rules state, "the Uefa Champions' League title holders may be entered for this competition, as an additional representative of that association, if they have not qualified for the Uefa Champions' League

via the top domestic league championship. If, in such a case, the title holders come from an association entitled to enter four teams for the Uefa Champions' League, the fourth-placed club in the top domestic league championship has to be entered for the Uefa Cup."

Uefa's communications director, William Gaillard, said: "Should those circumstances arise it is up to the FA to make a decision."

Incidentally, the FA's chief executive Brian Barwick, who is a Liverpool fan, does not have a voting role on the board.

theCzar

having watched chelsea and milan go through the motions, i reckon those infernal reds will get the champions league. I think i'd vomit regardless of who gets the 4th champ spot, every Liverpool "fan" mouthing off about being the best team in europe...

At this stage it's all hearsay, i just hope Everton go out and beat Fulham, which will all but confirm 4th place...

BolBill

Draupnir wrote:

this will be settled by Mourinho and his lads tonight anyway, so there isnt much point in a furore

Yeah they really settled things last night mate, or should I call you genius ?

~Rebel~

More respect surely has to go to the winner of the champions league then 4th place finishers in the EPL, after all the points gained had liverpool not been in the CL and thus not lost most of their following games would probably put them safely in 4th. Not saying they would hae won them all, but even 1 win and a few draws would have made a world of difference.

In every sense its better for the compitition if the pool are in it next next year (if they win it this year). i mean it would be nice for everton to get thru but to be honest i (and probably lots of others) wouldn't really be bothered to watch them.. hardly gonna be the best viewing and its most likely they'll timidly go out in the group stages and maybe not even get the uefa cup place (which they'd probably be better of getting right now for the sake of the club). They may cause an upset, but liverpool have proved they can match the greats of europe in the CL.

Obviously im biased being a liverpool fan and this is all imo, just think when it comes down to it, winning the champions league is better then coming 4th in the premiership.

ps. the reason the winners of world cup dont qualify for the next tournament is because a winning team could bear no similarities to the team of the next compitition 4 years later,for example greece could be complete sh!te in 4 years, whereas here it is the same team effectively that carries on the next year, and thus will almost certainly be able to compete well at least.

Third_Echelon

~Rebel~ wrote:

In every sense its better for the compitition if the pool are in it next next year (if they win it this year). i mean it would be nice for everton to get thru but to be honest i (and probably lots of others) wouldn't really be bothered to watch them..

Better for the competition??? Better for Liverpool you mean. What gives you the right to dictate what's good for the champions league? Surely Evertonians have the right to watch their team in the premier european competition if they have qualified for it?

Why should any other teams other than 'the big clubs' even bother competing in the league if their qualification 'wouldn't be good for the CL competition'?

~Rebel~ wrote:

hardly gonna be the best viewing and its most likely they'll timidly go out in the group stages and maybe not even get the uefa cup place (which they'd probably be better of getting right now for the sake of the club). They may cause an upset, but liverpool have proved they can match the greats of europe in the CL.

If they've earned the right to do it, then so what? That is no concern of liverpool's. Qualifying for the groups stages, putting in some good performances and taking the CL money to further improve our squad is progress in my book to be honest. They only way other teams are going to get better is by qualifying for europe, taking the prize money and improving.

Reaching the group stages and not qualifying for the knockout stages is a realistic goal for Everton. They know that the Real Madrids, the AC Milans of this world are all better teams and would play them off the pitch, but just even gettingt there is an achievement. I dont expect a whole lot from them if they do qualify, but they will get CL experience which is the key for progress in the years to come. And who is to say that they can't cause a few upsets?

It'll make the premiership less of a 3 horse race if more teams can compete with them on the transfer market.

~Rebel~ wrote:

Obviously im biased being a liverpool fan and this is all imo, just think when it comes down to it, winning the champions league is better then coming 4th in the premiership.

Not in the eyes of UEFA and the Premier league it seems. Its the FA that are dragging their heals over this scenario should it arise.

LegacyUser

IMO whatever happens in the remainder of the CL, the fourth placed team in the Premiership should be awarded entry into next years competition, be it Everton, Bolton or Liverpool.

The Champions League, while it has been changed over the last few years from an out-and-out knockout cup competition to more of a mini-league/two-legged ties, still remains a cup competition. The aim of the competition is to bring together the top club teams in Europe to compete in the one tournament. The criteria for entry has always been based on the league positions of the home country, and AFAIK at one stage the winners were granted automatic entry.

The fundemental difference between league and cup football is the nature of the match. League championships are won over 8 months of games and 35-40 matches. Endurance and ability, coupled with strength and depth are what win league titles. Cup, on the other hand, is a competition designed to cause upsets. These tournaments are where skill & ability are replaced by spirit, heart and getting the tactics right on the day, and a favourable draw! It is for reasons such as this that Milwall were in last years FA Cup final, and why teams like Liverpool and PSV are in the semi-finals of the CL while the so-called top teir of teams like Man U, Arsenal, Real & Barcelona are watching the remainder of the competition from the comfort of their living rooms.

What I'm trying to say, IMO clubs should be given entry into the lucrative CL based on their league position; their result in the previous year's tournament is irrevelant. You earn the right to play in this competition by beating the likes of Crystal Palace/West Brom/Norwich (sorry fans!) away from home on murky Tuesday nights in November and December. While I wish Liverpool all the best, I disagree with any notion that says that Liverpool, or any other club for that matter, should be automatically entitled to entry into the CL if they win it the previous year. While they have had fantastic results this year (e.g. Juve ); if you cant get a result against the lower teams every Saturday week-in, week-out (e.g. Palace last Sat), then you really have nothing to complain about.

Thanks for listening...!

~Rebel~

Third_Echelon wrote:

What gives you the right to dictate what's good for the champions league?

First off was only my opinion.

Third_Echelon wrote:

If they've earned the right to do it, then so what? That is no concern of liverpool's.

Im not saying they should be kicked out because they haven't earned it, just that in my opinion the team that wins the Champions League one year has a bigger right to be in it the next then another team who comes fourth in the Domestic League, regardless of who those teams are.

~Rebel~

bruachain wrote:

What I'm trying to say, IMO clubs should be given entry into the lucrative CL based on their league position; their result in the previous year's tournament is irrevelant. You earn the right to play in this competition by beating the likes of Crystal Palace/West Brom/Norwich (sorry fans!) away from home on murky Tuesday nights in November and December. While I wish Liverpool all the best, I disagree with any notion that says that Liverpool, or any other club for that matter, should be automatically entitled to entry into the CL if they win it the previous year. While they have had fantastic results this year (e.g. Juve ); if you cant get a result against the lower teams every Saturday week-in, week-out (e.g. Palace last Sat), then you really have nothing to complain about.
Thanks for listening...!

Must say, good point, well put.

The Muppet

bruachain wrote:

IMO whatever happens in the remainder of the CL, the fourth placed team in the Premiership should be awarded entry into next years competition, be it Everton, Bolton or Liverpool.

championships are won over 8 months of games and 35-40 matches. Endurance and ability, coupled with strength and depth are what win league titles. Cup, on the other hand, is a competition designed to cause upsets. These tournaments are where skill & ability are replaced by spirit, heart and getting the tactics right on the day, and a favourable draw! It is for reasons such as this that Milwall were in last years FA Cup final, and why teams like Liverpool and PSV are in the semi-finals of the CL while the so-called top teir of teams like Man U, Arsenal, Real & Barcelona are watching the remainder of the competition from the comfort of their living rooms.

What I'm trying to say, IMO clubs should be given entry into the lucrative CL based on their league position; their result in the previous year's tournament is irrevelant. You earn the right to play in this competition by beating the likes of Crystal Palace/West Brom/Norwich (sorry fans!) away from home on murky Tuesday nights in November and December. While I wish Liverpool all the best, I disagree with any notion that says that Liverpool, or any other club for that matter, should be automatically entitled to entry into the CL if they win it the previous year. While they have had fantastic results this year (e.g. Juve ); if you cant get a result against the lower teams every Saturday week-in, week-out (e.g. Palace last Sat), then you really have nothing to complain about.............................................................................................................

Thanks for listening...!

That sort or reasonad balanced approach has no place in the soccer forum. You'll have to work on being a bit more provocative.


Seriously though Good post, welcome to the soccer forum.