Landlords ...again!

jank

Right, Im a postgrad student who lives in dublin. The lease runs out at the start of June. However there are others who are leaving early and thus the landlord is refusing to give them back their deposits. Thing is I intend to stay on and hopefully get a small reduction in rent (i pay for the room per week, in cash). I have no idea if he has anything lined up for the place bu as far as I know the place will be more or less empty.

I consider myself a good tenant, pay the rent in time, dont cause trouble etc.
However I have stoped paying bills a few months back because well we were never shown the bills in the first place, like we were promised. Now im worried that he will use this excuse to keep my deposit

i have no problem paying my bills, i just want to see proof that its actually going to the bills and not his back pocket.
Is he legally obliged to show you bills before you actually pay him!?
There are 8 in the house and we are expected to pay 25 each an month. so thats 200 a month on bills alone.Seems pretty steap as we dont have any internet, phone or NTL/Sky.

Also we all pay in cash and we are 99% sure that he is not tax complient, he never signs the rent book and never provides us with recipets to show that we pay rent! One of the housemates tried toget him to sign some social welfare form but he refused!

I going to try and talk this weekend and see can I stay on 2 months for a small bit of reduced rent.

If that fails im going to make him show me the bills so that we can all be square in that regard if not then im not going to pay rent for the last 4 weeks( my deposit) as it will be clear to me that he is going to keep my deposit anyway.
What can he do sure?? Ill have to move out anyway then sure.

No evidence of bills = no rent.

Oh he also never provided us with his address only a mobile phone number.
Is there somewhere online can I check if he is registered with the local authority and somewhere that I can report him to the revenue.

MorningStar

Did you not agree these terms before you moved in?
You are both acting baddly. He should be giving you a bill and you should be paying. €25 for heating and electricity isn't that expensive for a large house. If he said the bill will be €25 each month from the start then you are at fault. He can't be making much money off the bills if at all so I suggest you pay him. There is a cost to changing bills into tennants name so he probably doesn't bother and keeps it easy with a set price.
If anybody breaks the lease he can refuse to give the deposit back instantly and wait for bills, inspection of the property. Some leases even say you loose your deposit. If the whole house was rented together then there is another problem that the deal was for the whole house.
You can go to the local council and check if the house is registerd as rented.

You should change the title of this as it implies ALL landlords are a problem but this is only one landlord. You moved in and never got the rent book signed and have been paying the bills like this already, you are responsible for this situation too. Rent payments are for the service of a room if you are getting that room you should pay your rent. Hold back the bill money if you must do something.
In saying that if you find out he isn't registered you can report him to the tax man and the council. This really would screw him over and should as he stealing from everybody.

Duckjob

Jeez, he sounds like a dodgy f**ker.

TBH, I've never understood this idea of tenants paying bills through the landlord, seems just like an excuse for the landlord to add a bit of 'markup'

Just to add some balance to the reputation of landlords in general, my landlord:

1) Charges a rent so low that I would never match it if I moved to an equivalent accomodation.
2) Has not raised that rent from when I moved in some 7 yrs ago.
3) Did not even raise it when my gf moved in, and even shared/cost of putting in new double bed and mattress.
4) Is always around promptly to fix anything that needs fixing.
5) Refused to take money from me (I offered) when he had to get in a plumber because I tried and failed to rectify a slow filling toilet myself and made a complete balls of it.
5) Never 'snoops' around. The only time you ever see him is when he's doing number 4.
6) Is a completely sound, chatty, friendly guy.

Nobody in the house has a bad word to say about him.

Additionally, I have his home number to contact him if I need to for any reason.


The the OP, if he's giving you trouble, you should present him with a Rental Relief on Private Accomodation form which requires him to submit all his details and see if he doesn't become a little more 'accomodating'.

MorningStar

Duckjob wrote:

Jeez, he sounds like a dodgy f**ker.

TBH, I've never understood this idea of tenants paying bills through the landlord, seems just like an excuse for the landlord to add a bit of 'markup'

It is expensive to change bills into tennants names that is a reason. The way the bills come through the service providers makes it extremely difficult for landlords to see everything is being paid. Had a tennant have the phone, gas and electrcity shut off and a huge bill left. Sometimes metres aren't correct for the flat layout so sometimes it isn't clear who owes what. There are some reason for this behaviour in other words. The "markup" mentioned doesn't sound like much if at all and I would even say there probably isn't any at all. What do you actually think it is worth to the landlord?

Duckjob

ESB Bills in our house aren't in the tenant names, they're just addressed to Flat 1, Flat 2, etc. They arrive and everyone just picks up their respective bill and pays it.

MorningStar

Duckjob wrote:

ESB Bills in our house aren't in the tenant names, they're just addressed to Flat 1, Flat 2, etc. They arrive and everyone just picks up their respective bill and pays it.

I had the same but as I said one tennant let the bills go up. It is an element of trust that has bitten once before. With that naming the landlord has to pay the bill if somebody does a runner. Maybe this landlord has had a similar experience. He should show them a bill but I can't see him making much money either way. Again I say how much do you think he is making? It must be a pretty big house to have 8 bedrooms so I would guess heating would be expensive and maybe it's oil so not metred. €200 a month doesn't sound like he will be getting a markup

Saruman

Why dont you just check yourself???? Go out to your ESB and Gas box, get the reading and work out how much.. i know the ESB has the calculation on their site, i assume Gas does too.. if not call them and ask them what it should be.
€200 per month is not too bad if thats what you pay all year round.. remember you use a LOT more heat and electricity in winter when its colder so if you pay the same then he may be just working off a level that suits him.. some months he makes money some he looses out...

However... If you think its still too much.. make him send you a copy of the bills.. remember that bills are usually bi monthly too!! not monthly. If he refuses then tell him you will be contacting revenue as he may not be supposed to be renting. If you did not sign a lease for isntance then he may be tax dodging.. it means you cant claim rent allowence if he does not provide reciepts. etc etc

By the way the ESB bill i just got was €180 for 2 months.. there are 4 of us in the house. So add Gas to that and i probably pay more a month than you do. Or about the same..

grumpytrousers

When did you move in? Does the landlord live there as well? Don't have it to hand, but you could have a quick look at this little beauty - the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act which changes the lie of the land considerably. I remember having a pi**ing contest with somebody here this time last year about getting deposits back and all, but with the new act, there are considerable obligations on the part of the landlord as to what they must do. Sections 12 and 16 (I think) go on about the obligations of both parties. There's a bit later on about how a landlord MUST register himself now. this ISN'T just for tax purposes - there's a body set up to deal with disputes, possibly like you're having, so as to avoid potential litigation.

If you have a pal who works in the legal area, ask him for a summary of the act - you should be quite well protected...Alternatively, there's a handy wee explanitory memorandum with the act if you download it...

hope this helps

GT

MorningStar

Just checked my own bills and it was €241 for gas and €114 for ESB bi-ninthly bills. €178 for a month. There are two of us in a 3 bed house. What do you really think the bills are like in a 8 bed house with 8 tennants. Everybody got a TV in their room? They eat electricty. Bin charges are also a bill which must be once a week at €5+. I really doubt he gets any markup it's more likely he loses money in a year.

Saruman

Remember YOU are only paying €25 a month.. I have to split the bills, I said there are 4 of us but we are both married couples so each couple splits the bills. We pay more a moth you you personally as a result.

jman0

Ring "The Private Residential Tenancies Board", by law your landlord should have registered with them, and he should have dropped the form into you to fill out your info too.
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/private_residential_tenancies_board.html

Scroll down, there's a number listed.

grumpytrousers

Rather than 'shop' your landlord immediately, I'd point out to him that there's 'obviously a difficulty between us and I'll get onto the board - I presume you've registered'. If he HASN'T then you give him a chance to get his arse in gear and he'll be mindful of the fact that you've NOT f**ked him over.

Point out, however, that however the dispute is resolved that he has to register, and you should fill in as much paperwork as you can. (i.e. if you threaten him and then don't follow thru, you're kinda blackmailing him - bad karma!!!) In my book, "shopping" is less of a sin than "blackmail"

As much as is possible, you're better off to have a good relationship with the landlord rather than a bad one. He probably has a rent review clause in the Lease, so 'good stuff' you've done will be remembered! Also, he may be more liberal in his definition of what repairs he will take care of!

MorningStar

I agree no need to shop him instantly. He may already be registered too so there might be no shopping involved. The whole thing is about €25 for bill which seems like a good deal. Pay your rent and talk to him about the bills but It is a good deal as far as I can tell.
I do however feel that if he is not paying taxes you should shop anyway because he is then part of the reason house prices are high and you pay so much tax.

jman0

I'm pretty sure he hasn't registered anyway with the The Private Residential Tenancies Board because to do so, he'd have to have gotten his tennants to fill out their bits on the same form too.
So yes i wouldn't hesitate to ring them.
Besides, i don't think they have any "teeth".
But yer landlord may not know that, and if they give him a ring he may straighten up quick.

jank

Ok cheers.

The are seven bedrooms in the house. One of them is a twin room. Its not that big a house but he converted the house to cram as much students into it as possible. More money for him. I have no problem paying the bills but why is he refusing to show us recipets for it. Anyway going to have that chat to him about staying on this weekend. At least I now know that I have a leg to stand on if it all goes pear shaped! Id be pretty confident about getting all my deposit back now. Im just going to watch everyting like a hawk.

I hate ****ers like this who doge the tax man but imo it ALWAYS comes back to haunt you. He is slef employed I think so cooks the books imo. My dad is a landlord too, he declares everything!!, so why should this ****er get away with it.

At the end of the day im going to report him no matter what, be it now or 2 months time after my extended lease is up.

Victor

grumpytrousers wrote:

In my book, "shopping" is less of a sin than "blackmail"!

Blackmail first, shop later.

Duckjob wrote:

5) Never 'snoops' around. The only time you ever see him is when he's doing number 4.

For a momment I dirn't know what "doing number 4" meant (number 4 on the list).