[Article] IRA threaten Gardai

MT

I came across the link to this piece at Slugger O'Toole.

IRA Threaten Gardai



This event surely adds to the arguments of critics that Gerry Adam's recent speech on the future of the IRA amounted to nothing more than hollow words.

What's most shocking here is the claim that the IRA intimidated the Gardai. This has got to be a new low with regard to the organisation's threat to the stability and security of the Irish state. If they're prepared to intimidate witnesses to a murder in Belfast and now the very officers that uphold the law in Dublin what hope is there for the future of justice, law and order in Ireland if SF ever gain power? I find this latest development a cause for serious concern.

Then add this to the Teasoich's recent statement that the IRA are still recruiting and you have to wonder at how much contempt the Republican Movement has for the people of Ireland. Either they have acquired an arrogance of monstrous proportions or they take us all for fools.

As for unfortunate Aengus, isn't it remarkable how quiet he has been of late. With all that he's been involved in the only honourable course of action for someone who values democracy would be to resign. His presence in the Dail must surely now stand as an insult to the democrats in this country. Sadly, he'll no doubt cling unto his seat with his grubby fingers for as long as he can.

This event can now be added to the long list of policy approaches adopted by the Republican Movement on the subject of policing. Lets see, they've rejected joining the North's policing board, they've used punishment beatings and murder dished out by vigilante groups to police/control parts of NI, they've murdered the brave Garda Gerry McCabe, then they attempted to use his killers early release as a bargaining tool, they've harangued the Garda Siochana at every turn for brutality (no sense of irony then) and now to cap it all they've intimidated the force into closing down a station. Yeah, Aengus and the gang are well capable of taking up the reigns of the justice ministry.

Oh, and the crowd of mourners sound like they’d be a pleasure to meet.

AmenToThat

MT wrote:

I came across the link to this piece at Slugger O'Toole.

IRA Threaten Gardai



This event surely adds to the arguments of critics that Gerry Adam's recent speech on the future of the IRA amounted to nothing more than hollow words.

What's most shocking here is the claim that the IRA intimidated the Gardai. This has got to be a new low with regard to the organisation's threat to the stability and security of the Irish state.

There were reports tonight on Newsnight that British intelligence and the Gardai actually helped the Adams faction within the IRA during the the peace process by stopping those who were against the ceasefire from getting to army council meetings while making sure provo comanders who were behind Adams/McGuinness 'got to the church on time' so to speak, so that the Adams/McGuinness view would be carried by vote at army council meetings. So sounds like nothing more than a lovers tif to me.

monument

Oh, was this the funeral where the police turned up to cause trouble (arresting someone at a funeral is not right, and not does not make sense from a security point of view), and where the ERU was called in and started pointing guns at the crowd?

Which sounds all to like the days of the police and army turning up to funerals with mounted machine guns.

A Dub in Glasgo

Old news this and it is hardly an article considering it is a blog. Is there a link to the original piece?

'The IRA man - linked both to the Provos and Real IRA as well as the INLA and who has worked in the past for Sinn Fein's Aengus O'Snodaigh '

That really is the icing on the cake... get them all in the one sentence!

Why did the Gardai not wait until after the funeral?

mycroft

monument wrote:

Oh, was this the funeral where the police turned up to cause trouble (arresting someone at a funeral is not right, and not does not make sense from a security point of view), and where the ERU was called in and started pointing guns at the crowd?

Which sounds all to like the days of the police and army turning up to funerals with mounted machine guns.

For starts dub it's not old news the murder happened a few weeks ago.

Monument you're about five seconds from moral outrage over Gardai getting in the way of SF rocks. The ERU were'nt called quit hyberolisiing in a "won't someone please think of children" way.

The main suspect who was arrested at the funeral, was on the run from the police, equittete and decorum be damned if you're wanted for questioning for murder and skip town, then when you're seen the gardai should swoop. Hell the Shinners probably had a plan to get him out of the area post funeral.

'The IRA man - linked both to the Provos and Real IRA as well as the INLA and who has worked in the past for Sinn Fein's Aengus O'Snodaigh '

Yes shock horror, splintered IRA factions have some cross over, and ophs also worked for a legitimate campaign. Do you really want to be drawing attention to murder suspects relationships to senior SF candiates, and their campaign work. Because theres an impressive litany, over the past few months. Remind us again, why were the campaign workers wandering around with the list of TDs and the stun gun? :rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

mycroft wrote:

For starts dub it's not old news the murder happened a few weeks ago.

I was in Dublin about 2 weeks ago and I am pretty sure I seen this on the front page of The Herald when I was there. In my book, that is old news.

Yes shock horror, splintered IRA factions have some cross over, and ophs also worked for a legitimate campaign. Do you really want to be drawing attention to murder suspects relationships to senior SF candiates, and their campaign work. Because theres an impressive litany, over the past few months. Remind us again, why were the campaign workers wandering around with the list of TDs and the stun gun? :rolleyes:

I have seen the threads on here and I have no intention of dragging those threads into this one :rolleyes:

I was pointing to the way The Herald put all the usual suspects into one sentence with nothing what so ever to back it up. Then again, it is no great surprise that they do this.

shltter

sounds like the usual herald bull**** im sure if it was true someone would be able to find a link to it on a reputable news website
not some guy giving his opinion on a story in the herald

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I was in Dublin about 2 weeks ago and I am pretty sure I seen this on the front page of The Herald when I was there. In my book, that is old news.

I knew he was arrested I wasn't aware of the circumstances, I think it's interesting. Friend of mine is a news cameraman he was assaulted by a couple of other "SF campaign workers" while trying to film this fella leaving court.

I have seen the threads on here and I have no intention of dragging those threads into this one :rolleyes:

I was pointing to the way The Herald put all the usual suspects into one sentence with nothing what so ever to back it up. Then again, it is no great surprise that they do this.

And the fact that it doesn't seem to bother you the impressive array of fine organisations that could link this guy to a TD.

shltter

mycroft wrote:

I knew he was arrested I wasn't aware of the circumstances, I think it's interesting. Friend of mine is a news cameraman he was assaulted by a couple of other "SF campaign workers" while trying to film this fella leaving court..

how does your friend know they are sinn fein campaign workers if he can identify them has he reported the assault to the gardai

mycroft wrote:

And the fact that it doesn't seem to bother you the impressive array of fine organisations that could link this guy to a TD.

paper never refused ink

monument

mycroft wrote:

Monument you're about five seconds from moral outrage over Gardai getting in the way of SF rocks. The ERU were'nt called quit hyberolisiing in a "won't someone please think of children" way.

Now that you mentioned it, guns being pointed/shot at crowds of people in response to stones being pelted at the ‘authorities’ (did such even happen in this event?)… hmm that reminds me of some place, where could it be? Where?

What “five seconds” type moment does in take for the transition of pointing guns at crowds of people to shooting such guns? What would have happened if the good old reliably ERU panicked?

mycroft

monument wrote:

Now that you mentioned it, guns being pointed/shot at crowds of people in response to stones being pelted at the ‘authorities’ (did such even happen in this event?)… hmm that reminds me of some place, where could it be? Where?

What “five seconds” type moment does in take for the transition of pointing guns at crowds of people to shooting such guns? What would have happened if the good old reliably ERU panicked?

Lots of ifs and maybes there monument.

What if the crowd of SF supports didn't get violent, because one of theirs is getting brought in for questioning? And instead accepted that he was a major suspect in a murder investigation, and needs to hand himself over.

What if the suspect had turned himself in for police questioning, instead of going on the run, forcing the gardai to arrest him at the first avaliable opportunity being the funeral.

What if james cullen hadn't been gunned down by the armed wing of a terrorist organisation who are supposed to be on ceasefire (and I think a very fundamental question is how is this violence part of a last resort, cdebru, and why pray tell does the IRA need with a armed wing in dublin in 2005) for alledged commiting the crime of telling "lies" about IRA men taking protection money from drug dealers. *

* of course this is all conjecture and speculation. But I figured while you're at it, I'd take a punt as well. It's fun.

how does your friend know they are sinn fein campaign workers if he can identify them has he reported the assault to the gardai

They arrived, hinted to their status, cheered him as he left, and took photos of journalists covering the event. Him, life's too short, and this is all too common, some shoves and pushing? drag himself through court over that?

papers never refuse ink

republicans never stop trying to refute allegations. Do you want to swap pithy one liners with me, or debate the issue?

Sand

Now that you mentioned it, guns being pointed/shot at crowds of people in response to stones being pelted at the ‘authorities’

Why the ' ' around authorities? They're the Gardai, they *are* the authorities. I'm noticing this idealogical creep in recent SF/IRA thinking that the Gardai need to be RUCed. They wont be satisfied until every police force on this island is either undermined or under their control, so that their crinimal enterprise is undisturbed.

Personally I reckon the SF/IRA mourners should have been arrested for protecting the suspect - if not for refusing to inform Gardai that he would be present, then certainly for attacking the Gardai carrying out their duty. But then, wasnt it another provo funeral crowd that dragged out two men from their car and beat them to death like animals? You cant expect much better from provos.

And for those SF/IRA supporters who feel hard done by that their "movement" is viewed in the worst possible light - well, too bad. Terrorists/crinimals tend to be viewed negatively. Maybe if they dealt with that honestly then they would find theyre not making the front pages for all the wrong reasons.

shltter

mycroft wrote:

They arrived, hinted to their status, cheered him as he left, and took photos of journalists covering the event. Him, life's too short, and this is all too common, some shoves and pushing? drag himself through court over that? ?

they arrived and hinted they were sinn fein campaign workers how did they do that
so they cheered him scumbags regularly turn up and cheer their scumbag mates at court so what
they took photos so how does that prove they were sinn fein campaign workers
so now it is gone from an assault to the pushing and shoving we see every night on the news outside courts all over the world

I smell BS

mycroft wrote:

republicans never stop trying to refute allegations. Do you want to swap pithy one liners with me, or debate the issue?

what issue mcdowell says this had nothing to do with the republican movement
a bit of common sense would tell you he could not be a dissident republican and a member of the PIRA at the same time

this is just some scumbag who may have had a link with the provisional republican movement in the past so what

the simple fact is that rags like the herald tell lies all the time the people who pass for journalists there are the same type of scumbag liars found in tabliod gutter press in the UK
if the event mentioned by the OP happened why was it not reported by anyone else why was it not mentioned at the GRA conference because personally if the IRA are threatening gardai and closing garda stations I would have suspected that would be a very big story
why did the minister in charge of the gardai not comment it would be very out of character for him to stay silent if the above event had happened


so i ask again provide a reputable website that reported this event

shltter

Sand wrote:

Why the ' ' around authorities? They're the Gardai, they *are* the authorities. I'm noticing this idealogical creep in recent SF/IRA thinking that the Gardai need to be RUCed. They wont be satisfied until every police force on this island is either undermined or under their control, so that their crinimal enterprise is undisturbed.

Personally I reckon the SF/IRA mourners should have been arrested for protecting the suspect - if not for refusing to inform Gardai that he would be present, then certainly for attacking the Gardai carrying out their duty. But then, wasnt it another provo funeral crowd that dragged out two men from their car and beat them to death like animals? You cant expect much better from provos.

And for those SF/IRA supporters who feel hard done by that their "movement" is viewed in the worst possible light - well, too bad. Terrorists/crinimals tend to be viewed negatively. Maybe if they dealt with that honestly then they would find theyre not making the front pages for all the wrong reasons.

how the **** do you jump to the conclusion they were SF or IRA mourners
or that this murder had anything to do with SF and the IRA
the minister for justice disagrees with you

monument

Sand wrote:

Why the ' ' around authorities? They're the Gardai, they *are* the authorities. I'm noticing this idealogical creep in recent SF/IRA thinking that the Gardai need to be RUCed. They wont be satisfied until every police force on this island is either undermined or under their control, so that their crinimal enterprise is undisturbed.

It was a reference to one of the other places in the world guns are used at crowds of people after stones are flung by sections of such crowds.

You’re overreacting my comments - and possibly implying I have something to do with the behaviour you talk about.

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

What if james cullen hadn't been gunned down by the armed wing of a terrorist organisation who are supposed to be on ceasefire (and I think a very fundamental question is how is this violence part of a last resort, cdebru, and why pray tell does the IRA need with a armed wing in dublin in 2005) for alledged commiting the crime of telling "lies" about IRA men taking protection money from drug dealers. *

* of course this is all conjecture and speculation. But I figured while you're at it, I'd take a punt as well. It's fun.

as you say that is all conjecture none of it based in fact if you what me to comment find a real story

A Dub in Glasgo

Sand wrote:

Why the ' ' around authorities? They're the Gardai, they *are* the authorities. I'm noticing this idealogical creep in recent SF/IRA thinking that the Gardai need to be RUCed. They wont be satisfied until every police force on this island is either undermined or under their control, so that their crinimal enterprise is undisturbed.

Personally I reckon the SF/IRA mourners should have been arrested for protecting the suspect - if not for refusing to inform Gardai that he would be present, then certainly for attacking the Gardai carrying out their duty. But then, wasnt it another provo funeral crowd that dragged out two men from their car and beat them to death like animals? You cant expect much better from provos.

And for those SF/IRA supporters who feel hard done by that their "movement" is viewed in the worst possible light - well, too bad. Terrorists/crinimals tend to be viewed negatively. Maybe if they dealt with that honestly then they would find theyre not making the front pages for all the wrong reasons.

You appaear to have a lot more information about what went on and who these people actually where than anything linked to so far. Care to share us with the sources of your information? preferably something that is hyperlinked so we can all see that the mourners were SF or IRA.

mycroft

shltter wrote:

they arrived and hinted they were sinn fein campaign workers how did they do that
so they cheered him scumbags regularly turn up and cheer their scumbag mates at court so what
they took photos so how does that prove they were sinn fein campaign workers
so now it is gone from an assault to the pushing and shoving we see every night on the news outside courts all over the world

I smell BS

I mentioned this as ancedotal support to the original article, which states that SF members attacked Gardai. I've seen the footage. Unedited. It's not completely relevant to the thread, so if you like I'll drop it. Probably shouldn't have raised it, it was unnerving watching people threaten a cameraman from doing his job.

so i ask again provide a reputable website that reported this event

It's a national paper. Find a source to repute it. Just saying "thats bs" isn't good enough. Why should we take your word over a papers? Anyone at the funeral could sue for libel.

monument wrote:

It was a reference to one of the other places in the world guns are used at crowds of people after stones are flung by sections of such crowds.

Actually monument I think you're making a association to a location close by.

lets look at your original post.

Now that you mentioned it, guns being pointed/shot at crowds of people in response to stones being pelted at the ‘authorities’ (did such even happen in this event?)… hmm that reminds me of some place, where could it be? Where?

emphasis mine. I think it's clear you're implying NI. It's interesting you're denying that stones where thrown but take it on face value that the police drew guns.

I notice you avoided my post. Face it you like to hold the state responsible, and like to avoid the implication that SF/IRA men might have pushed the situation to force the Garda to react in this manner, So this was sheer police heavy handness, and nothing to do with the fact that this man, who is in the IRA, is the prime suspect in a cold blooded drugs related shooting who went on the run, and the one instance the garda knew they could get him was at the funeral, and then a crowd of SF/IRA supporters attacked the garda, they drew weapons, and we're just bloodly lucky no one was hurt by this irrational display of garda force. Do you know about cause and effect?

cdebru wrote:

as you say that is all conjecture none of it based in fact if you what me to comment find a real story

And we know you'll find some way to quanitfy your support for the good freedom fighters and your condemnation for the bad terrorists.

Its also very curious to note that no one has objected to the fact that an IRA man is accused of a cold blooded shooting in the center of dublin, over an alledged lie about possible profiteering from heroin deals, and this doesn't seem to bother a single repubilican on this thread.

Sands btw. The nth funeral anologue is bad man, the two men were security forces who panic'd and drove a car into a crowd at a funeral of someone murdered when a loyalist gunman attacked the funeral of a IRA man. The soldiers were dragged from the car kicked beaten, and taken to a playing field where IRA men arrived and dealt a summary execution. A number of people were wrongly convicted of the two soliders murders, including someone who was mentally challenged.

I remember being in donegal the original assault which resulted in the funeral that the two soldiers were killed was a vicious assault including hand grenades on the mourners. When the 2nd round of funerals occured tempers were flared, understandably. To compare this to the behaviour of the crowd of mourners for the mother of a man who's been on the run for the shooting of another man in cold blood over accusations of profiteering from drug dealing is eronous, and gives too much credit to the behaviour of the SF members at the funeral a few weeks ago, by associationing their actions with the actions of a crowd who had been assaulted but a few days earlier with lethal results.

Two points from this. By raising this you allow these murders apologists to use this different situation to justify the kind of behaviour mentioned above, the habouring of a IRA man who commited murder in cold blood for no justifable reason (unless we find a justifible reason, and boy it'll get interesting around here if we do).

The other case is this, IRA men, the protectors of the community the previous case were more than happy to allow innocent men to go prison, because it's fuel to the bonfire of hate of the british government. They'd rather see a wrong done and benefit from it, than own up to their actions and ensure justice is done, and protect the innocent people of a community they claim to represent. Thats the kind of protection the IRA has offered communities in the North for 30 years.

cdebru

mycroft

it was all conjecture on your behalf

the IRA were nor involved in this murder even micheal mc dowell has confirmed this what is there to object to your fantasy??

mycroft

cdebru wrote:

mycroft

it was all conjecture on your behalf

the IRA were nor involved in this murder even micheal mc dowell has confirmed this what is there to object to your fantasy??

the only arrested suspect is reported in large swaths of the press as in the IRA, and again it's concevieable the IRA will disown him a rouge element.

I'm just curious to know how long and what it will take some of the republican supporters on the site to recognise that you can't support a cause while denying the true nature of those individuals fighting for this cause.

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

the only arrested suspect is reported in large swaths of the press as in the IRA, and again it's concevieable the IRA will disown him a rouge element.

I'm just curious to know how long and what it will take some of the republican supporters on the site to recognise that you can't support a cause while denying the true nature of those individuals fighting for this cause.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0411/curranj.html

it is widely reported that he is a dissident republican ie not associated with PSF or PIRA
the Provisional Republican movement is not responsible for the actions of alledged former associates

i recognise there are scumbags in the IRA and the nature of the IRA may attract some scumbags
but there are scumbags in every organisation in the country including the gardai the judiciary leinster house the GAA the FAI etc etc

mycroft

cdebru wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0411/curranj.html

it is widely reported that he is a dissident republican ie not associated with PSF or PIRA
the Provisional Republican movement is not responsible for the actions of alledged former associates

i recognise there are scumbags in the IRA and the nature of the IRA may attract some scumbags
but there are scumbags in every organisation in the country including the gardai the judiciary leinster house the GAA the FAI etc etc

Most of those scumbags didn't get IRA training, access to weapons, and shoot people in cold blood. It's all a matter of perpective. Comparing dissent republicans to the FAI is just laughable.

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

Most of those scumbags didn't get IRA training, access to weapons, and shoot people in cold blood. It's all a matter of perpective. Comparing dissent republicans to the FAI is just laughable.

i'm not comparing them

the point is that every organisation has scumbags

the nature of the IRA it is more likely to attract a scumbag element however this guy is no longer associated with the the republican movement

as far as i'm concerned there is no need for the IRA to exist at this time and the organisation should be wound up

Cork

Sand wrote:

They wont be satisfied until every police force on this island is either undermined or under their control, so that their crinimal enterprise is undisturbed.
.

They are indeed not happy with police forces north or south but they maintain links to the IRA.

cdebru

Cork wrote:

They are indeed not happy with police forces north or south but they maintain links to the IRA.

do you have a point or do you just have a couple of sentences that you repeat over and over

Cork

cdebru wrote:

do you have a point or do you just have a couple of sentences that you repeat over and over

Shall I elaborate?

SF are quiet happy to stand for elections but as such they need to start supporting the institutions of this state.

In the August 16 edition of Republican newspaper, An Phoblacht, a photograph was published showing Ferris and his Dáil colleagues, Caoimhín Ó Caoláin, Sean Crowe and Aengus Ó Snodaigh, standing shoulder to shoulder with Kevin Walsh and Pearse McAuley.

Also in the picture were the two others convicted of Garda McCabe’s manslaughter – Sheehy and O’Neill – as well as four other prisoners serving time for offences committed since the Good Friday Agreement commenced.

Sinn Fein refused to comment on the matter when contacted by The Kingdom on Monday. Despite repeated attempts to contact Deputy Ferris, at his home, at his Dáil office and through the Sinn Fein press office, promises of a response failed to materialise.
.

cdebru, I would be delighted if SFs atitude to the Gardai has changed. But that organisation has still links to the IRA.

There is only one army in this state and it is not the IRA.

I would favour all politicians at local and national level swearing an oath of alligence to the institutions of this state.

I am completely opposed to the threatening threatening of Gardai.

cdebru

well personally i think they an oath of allegiance to the institutions of the stae would be a stupid idea

how could politicians improve or reform the institutions of the state if they had sworn an oath of allegience to them how could a party that wanted to change the instituions of the state even stand for election


there is nothing wrong with wanting to change the institutions of the state the institutions are there to serve the people not vice versa

besides which the institutions are not the state the people are the state


I'am opposed to the threatening of gardai as well

what i dont think has been proven here is that
1 the events happened
2 that any events that may have happened had anything to do with PSF or the PIRA

no links to the events have been provided other than a blog

personally i think if any group had threatened the gardai and brought about the closing of the busiest garda station in the country it would get a lot more attention than this
this is just nonsense and the scraping of the barrell is you bringing up a completely unrelated story for the 100 odd time

Mr.Nice Guy

I remember reading this story in the Evening Herald a couple of weeks ago while I was in college. I don't recall it being mentioned in any other paper though.

mycroft

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I remember reading this story in the Evening Herald a couple of weeks ago while I was in college. I don't recall it being mentioned in any other paper though.

Not to be cyncial about it but the funeral were the man was picked up, was on the same day as a certain eldery polish bloke was laid to rest in rome, and mainstream media attention was focused on that. Saturday is the worse day for news and that saturday in particular was a heavy news day, Herald is the only daily paper that does a later edition on a saturday, so while the rest of the press was filling their OP pieces for the sunday papers; on business from rome, it could easily have been missed.

I've been tempted to give the Garda press office a bell to see if they'd confirm this, but I'd of the opinion that wouldn't be seen as an acceptable source for some here.

A Dub in Glasgo

What an effort to try and explain why the Evening Herald were the only one to lead with this in the last 2-3 weeks!!

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What an effort to try and explain why the Evening Herald were the only one to lead with this in the last 2-3 weeks!!

Not really. You've yet to come with a source to disprove the claims I see, other than "it's in the herald I refuse to believe it"