Landlord problem....,what else??

Bitsie

well Santa Claus (feels very weird calling you that)! i called him around last night to have a look at the state of the room himself and he said he will have a word, but God only knows how long that will take!

Santa Claus

If the room is not in rentable condition then you can't be expected to try and rent it.
Explain to him calmly that as he introduced the new tenant it's up to him to clear up after the guy (if it was a friend of yours, he'd expect you to sort out your friends mess) bear any loss on that room until he gets the room clean enough to show to prospective tenants.
It's his own fault really for not getting a deposit from the guy !

Do you get any receipts from him for the rent ?
I had a landlord before who wouldn;t give his PPS number so the revenue said they just need his name and the address of the property you're renting in and they get the details through the land registry !

calhob_ie

If theres no lease then there should be a rent book. If theres neither then you have to be able to prove you've been paying rent to him or his representative, which if it was all cash is difficult to impossible. On the plus front the legal situation is that if the lease was signed on your behalf by one of the other tenants then they are liable for any shortfall on the rental amount, since your a latecomer to the house this must be the case.

Which means you either come to a mutual agreement, probably the best being him waiving a room equivalent from the rent for a month or so to give you the time to find a replacement. Or you leave, legally you would be entitled to your deposit but realistically you'd probably be onto plums and have to take the loss.

MorningStar

landser wrote:

this is all very laudible, but not quite how the system works. the landlord can call around and change every lock in the house and turf the tenant out for non payment of rent. the tenant would then have to initiate proceeings against him, which could take 6 months! He may well have breached the tenats rights, but 6 months down the line, having spent a large sum of money on costs (no solicitor does this type of work without money up front) and having already had to find somewhere else to live, any victory on the tenant's partcould well be a Phyrric one. this is the real world situation.

You might find you are wrong with this. If a landlord does this you go to the police and get an instant (24hour) court case. It's not a civil mater it's a crime! Rent non-payment is a civil matter. You are also able to enter the house by what ever means and change the locks yourself. Ireland has some very strict laws on tennacy rights. To prove you live there just have a few bills or letters to you there.

calhob_ie

Indeed you can apply for an injunction and demand to be readmitted to the property, if you can prove your a tenant of course. Again though if you get home and all your stuff's been f**ked out the top floor window onto the street then do you really want to go to court to get back in? Even if you do get back in the landlord still has enough power over your environment ie the property to make your every minute in the place miserable. Personally if it got to that stage I'd cut my losses and bugger off.

landser

Santa Claus wrote:

Landser, Would i be right in guessing from your pro-landlord posts that you are a landlord yourself ????

what an amazing deduction... and what a wrong one... nope, i'm a tenant at the moment and have been for several years. I'm not "pro landlord" as such, but i'm pro this landlord, cos he's in the right. no point telling the OP a load of bs based on notional political ideas, when he's gonna get his ass whipped.

landser

MorningStar wrote:

You might find you are wrong with this. If a landlord does this you go to the police and get an instant (24hour) court case. It's not a civil mater it's a crime! Rent non-payment is a civil matter. You are also able to enter the house by what ever means and change the locks yourself. Ireland has some very strict laws on tennacy rights. To prove you live there just have a few bills or letters to you there.

the gardai will not get involved in an eviction matter without a court order. the court is very reluctant to give such orders without hearing from both sides. if the first thing the court hears is that the tenant is not paying rent, it is hiughly unlikely that it will make an order in favour of the tenant without such an order without a full hearing as the tenant is in default of his agreement with the landlord. if the tenant forces entry to the house, he can be charged with criminal damage.

Notwithstanding all this, the point is this will cost the OP money and time... is it not esaier to move out? if he was stupid enough to move into a house when he didn;t even know what he was renting, he deserves what he gets.

Bitsie

this landlord is not in the right full stop. there is no lease no rent book and i didnt take it on with the other two as a house. if he gets rid of me then so be it, i would rather that than pay him an extra penny.
thanks for all your comments, illl let you know how i get on!!

MorningStar

landser wrote:

the gardai will not get involved in an eviction matter without a court order. the court is very reluctant to give such orders without hearing from both sides. if the first thing the court hears is that the tenant is not paying rent, it is hiughly unlikely that it will make an order in favour of the tenant without such an order without a full hearing as the tenant is in default of his agreement with the landlord. if the tenant forces entry to the house, he can be charged with criminal damage.

Notwithstanding all this, the point is this will cost the OP money and time... is it not esaier to move out? if he was stupid enough to move into a house when he didn;t even know what he was renting, he deserves what he gets.

I have first hand knowledge that makes me disagree with you. I think if you check the rules around this you might be surprised. Don't believe me but if you ever get into the situation where you need to evicte somebody you will find it tuff going. If you damage something entering a building you have rights to it is not criminal damage.

SHE rented a room the landlord is wrong to think she rented the house with people she just met.

calhob_ie

What you think and what you can prove are two different things.

Legally if the house is rented and a lease agreement exists between the previous tenants then the new tenant ie the poster would be liable to this agreement, it would be considered that the lease agreement was signed on his behalf. If he wasn't made aware of this when he moved in then he's well within his rights to move out and demand a full refund of any monies outstanding to him as the agreement was misrepresented to him. Thats presuming he was rented the room on a "room only" basis in a shared property.

If the house is rented then the landlord has no right to enter the property without the express permission of the tenants. The landlord may hold the physical deeds to the property but its the tenants home. Also the landlord has no right to remove or hold the tenants property in lieu of outstanding rental or bill payments, thats what a deposits for.

You can check the legal situation here:

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

Relates to eviction practice.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/tenants_rights_and_obligations.html

Relates to your rights as a private tenant.

Bitsie

thanks for that, and for the record im a SHE, look at the name "Bitsie", hardly the most manly nickname!! anyway thanks guys

calhob_ie

Sorry about that, best of luck anyway. Im sure if you talk it over you'll reach some kind of arrangement. Worst case senario is you lose your deposit and go away a bit wiser to the ways of wily landlords.

Cheers

Chris

pheasantplucker

bitsie.. you don't deserve to get stung with the rent. in my opinion you took out a room in the house.. its the landlords problem if he can't rent out the room. ring these guys http://www.threshold.ie/ they are very helpful on problems like these. they can give proper solid advice on where you stand. good luck.

landser

MorningStar wrote:

I have first hand knowledge that makes me disagree with you. I think if you check the rules around this you might be surprised. Don't believe me but if you ever get into the situation where you need to evicte somebody you will find it tuff going. If you damage something entering a building you have rights to it is not criminal damage.

SHE rented a room the landlord is wrong to think she rented the house with people she just met.

Your first hand experience is anecdotal at best. if she waqsn't paying the full rent, got turfed out and broke in, she can be charged with criminal damage

Bitsie

pheasantplucker wrote:

bitsie.. you don't deserve to get stung with the rent. in my opinion you took out a room in the house.. its the landlords problem if he can't rent out the room. ring these guys http://www.threshold.ie/ they are very helpful on problems like these. they can give proper solid advice on where you stand. good luck.

cheers for that ill definitly check it out anyway if needs be.

MorningStar

landser wrote:

Your first hand experience is anecdotal at best. if she waqsn't paying the full rent, got turfed out and broke in, she can be charged with criminal damage

As I said don't believe me but any landlord who locks a person out is taking a large risk and breaking the law. I had a tenant threaten to stab me and I really wanted him out. The Gardai warned me that they could do nothing but would be forced to help him get back into the house if I did anything like lock him out. If it was as simple as you said I would have done it. Every law and fact contradicts your view and you managed to get the details wrong here so I choose not to believe you as what you say is anecdotal compared to my view of legal options.

landser

MorningStar wrote:

As I said don't believe me but any landlord who locks a person out is taking a large risk and breaking the law. I had a tenant threaten to stab me and I really wanted him out. The Gardai warned me that they could do nothing but would be forced to help him get back into the house if I did anything like lock him out. If it was as simple as you said I would have done it. Every law and fact contradicts your view and you managed to get the details wrong here so I choose not to believe you as what you say is anecdotal compared to my view of legal options.

MS, read my sig!

If he actually did threaten to stab you, this is a criminal offence. why didn;t the gardai act on this????

If the garda told you this, they're wrong. they probably wanted to get rid of you and fob you off (quite common for gardai to do this... cf tons of threads re this on boards). the gardai will not help someone effectively break into a house without just cause. a landlord changing the locks would not be enough. for all they know the "tenant" could be subject to a barring order, eviction notice.

the law is about far more than rules and regs... i know the landlord would be in the wrong if he changed the locks and that the tenant would be in a storng position to get back in, but in order to do so an application would have to be made to the court and the tenant pay the solicitor up front.. read my earlier posts!!!!!!

Every law and fact contradicts your view and you managed to get the details wrong here

enlighten me

MorningStar

landser wrote:

MS, read my sig!


Every law and fact contradicts your view and you managed to get the details wrong here

enlighten me

Read the links already posted and you will find out that what I said is true. The legal details agree with what I was saying so it's not anecdotal while your view is.
There is no lawyers needed for the courts involved in tenancy problems. So this is where you have been wrong about legal costs.
Bistsie is female and you refered to her as male. Where you were wrong again
You also think criminal damge charges would be brought against a tenant breaking into their home. I know this is wrong but couldn't be bothered proving another thing you got wrong.
Are you now enlightened?
Probably just annoyed but I don't trust your view because you have got facts wrong and don't appear to understand the court sytem (maybe you don't care either). I doubt you have ever had to evicted somebody or had to deal with problem tenants.

landser

MorningStar wrote:

Read the links already posted and you will find out that what I said is true. The legal details agree with what I was saying so it's not anecdotal while your view is.
There is no lawyers needed for the courts involved in tenancy problems. So this is where you have been wrong about legal costs.
Bistsie is female and you refered to her as male. Where you were wrong again
You also think criminal damge charges would be brought against a tenant breaking into their home. I know this is wrong but couldn't be bothered proving another thing you got wrong.
Are you now enlightened?
Probably just annoyed but I don't trust your view because you have got facts wrong and don't appear to understand the court sytem (maybe you don't care either). I doubt you have ever had to evicted somebody or had to deal with problem tenants.

anyone who goes to court over a landlord and tenant matter without a lawyer is doomed to failure. the landlord and tenant legislation in this country is a minefield. maybe you have such problems with your tenants because you don't use a lawyer.

I've been to court manys a time (every week in fact) and i know the courts system, so i don't need to be lectured by the veritable man on the street about it.

the only mistake that i made was in relation to the gender of the OP, and i apologise to her for mistaking her for a man (kinda hard to tell from an avatar), but this in no way negates any of the comments made supra. as for the criminal damage element, you're wrong and i know this from fact. if you evicted one of your tenants (rightly or wrongly) and they broke back in, would you not follow them up? although, given that one threatened to stab you, and you did nothing, maybe you wouldn't.

and you're right, i never have had to evict someone. likewise i have never murdered, raped, or robbed someone, but this would not mean that any opinion i had on these matters could be discounted on the basis that i had not indulged in the deed.

Bitsie

eh lads, if you want to argue over this maybe i should start another thread for the two of you so you can let it rip!! :-)

MorningStar

You don't know the legislation and how they work with regard to tenacy agreements. There are special courts with regard to this problem it's designed not to need lawyers like the personal assement board. Not 100% sure because it's been a while but I think it sits all year now as opposed to only 8 months a year like it used to.

You are not a landlord and have never had real life experience of how tha law works. Yet you have stated how people get around all the laws.

I choose not to believe you on these grounds. There is evidence to support my view but yours is all opinion not even anecdotal.

Don't believe me fine but at least come up with proof how you are right instead. It has already been posted how the system works.

I am not going to comment again if you just repeat your views with out some evidence. I don't get into these I know better than you because I do arguements! External information please.

NewFrockTuesday

the law is about far more than rules and regs... i know the landlord would be in the wrong if he changed the locks and that the tenant would be in a storng position to get back in, but in order to do so an application would have to be made to the court and the tenant pay the solicitor up front

..

Yet you have stated how people get around all the laws.

you are also choosing to ignore what landser is trying to say.
Bitsie, to be in this situation is pretty upsetting i would imagine. i think you may be closing the stable door after the horse is happily cantering over faraway hills! i dont think you deserve to get stung but the reality is you probably will, unless moving out is the lesseer of the 2 evils. good luck!

MorningStar

purdee wrote:

..
you are also choosing to ignore what landser is trying to say.
Bitsie, to be in this situation is pretty upsetting i would imagine. i think you may be closing the stable door after the horse is happily cantering over faraway hills! i dont think you deserve to get stung but the reality is you probably will, unless moving out is the lesseer of the 2 evils. good luck!

It's off point so can be raised seperately.

I didn't ignore his points just don't agree with him about the need for a lawyer
as I have been at the courts in this matter. I believe he doesn't know what he is talking about because of the way he states the courts deal with these matters. It no longer should be connected to this thread and I have made my point and it has back up. He can raise a seperate thread if he wants.

NewFrockTuesday

There may be more than one way to deal with matters like this. just because someone cooks a mean lasagne, they dont have the right to call themselves a chef! Likewise here methinks. Neither of you have been overly helpful to Bitsie and its turned into a slugging match. If both of you are just looking for the one-up, meet behind the bike shed.

MorningStar

Purdee
Read an entire thread before assuming things. But I agree it has ended up off point. No need for a reply I am done. Bitsie knows what she is doing and has been informed about her legal rights.

Bitsie

yes i know what im doing now and thanks to everyone who helped

NewFrockTuesday

Morningstar
I did. I dont assume. Ill decide if i reply thank you very much...when i decide that i want someone to tell me if i can reply or not, you probably wont be the person i ask...so dont assume to tell me. you dont have to reply to this. i agree this is over.

landser

MorningStar wrote:

You don't know the legislation and how they work with regard to tenacy agreements. There are special courts with regard to this problem it's designed not to need lawyers like the personal assement board. Not 100% sure because it's been a while but I think it sits all year now as opposed to only 8 months a year like it used to.

You are not a landlord and have never had real life experience of how tha law works. Yet you have stated how people get around all the laws.

I choose not to believe you on these grounds. There is evidence to support my view but yours is all opinion not even anecdotal.

Don't believe me fine but at least come up with proof how you are right instead. It has already been posted how the system works.

I am not going to comment again if you just repeat your views with out some evidence. I don't get into these I know better than you because I do arguements! External information please.

Let me educate you my friend.

THere is no landlord and tenant court. there may well be an assigned judge in the circuit court to hear any landlord and tenat disputes, but no court. chech with the circuit court civil offoce in aras ui dhailigh.

All civil courts close for two months in the long vacation i.e. August and September, save for the dmd district court which is closed in august only. there are a few weeks hear and there between the terms of michelmas and hilary, hilary and easter and easter and trinity, when the courts close. no courts are open for merely 8 months a year.

Are you referring to the residential tenancies board, the eponymous body created by the 2004 act? i doubt it, as it has only come into existence.

Sorry for hijacking your post Bitsie! :cool:

MorningStar

No facts!
Start another thread if you want and get facts. Don't believe me fine but no reason to belive you without facts. I might change my mind as it's been a while but I was in court with 24 hours and a tenant broke into my property and criminal damge was not an option.

landser

you're the best lanlord ever, they threaten to kill you and thrash your house, and you do nothing!