POLL: Which is a better achievement?

jesus_thats_gre

Following on from this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=250295&page=1&pp=20

1) Finishing 4th in the PL

2) Winning the CL

~Rebel~

Huh...oddly on all recent polls it seems liverpool get the blue bar instead of the red.

have to say winning the champions league is quite the impressive feat, 4th in the premiership this year seems to be down to what (usually) lower teams are playing well and what (usually) higher teams are playing less bad.

DoctorEdgeWild

Winning the CL is a far better achievement than finishing in 4th in the PL.

However at the start of the season, 4th place was named as a way into the Champions league as it has been for a couple of seasons now. I think if it comes down to it, league position takes precedence and that team (likely Everton) should be in next year CL.

jesus_thats_gre

Just trying to get a general concensus on what is the better achievement..

DoctorEdgeWild

Ok fair enough - I think its gonna be a landslide though.

A Dub in Glasgo

Do not equate which is the better acheivement with the winners of the CL should get into the CL even though they were not good enough to qualify which is where this thread will head.

For the record, winning the CL is the better achievement and I would be surprised if you will get a dissenting vote.

TheMonster

Which is the better achievement?

Winning the world cup?
Finishing 2nd in a world cup qualifiying group and winning a playoff?

Same difference :rolleyes:

BaZmO*

I have to say that is an absolutely ridiculous way to have a poll.

Of course winning the Champions League is better than coming 4th in the PL and I don't think anybody is going to dispute that, however, as far as getting a place in the Champions League, you HAVE to finish 4th or better in your domestic league to qualify, END OF!!

What's the point in having the rules if they are just gonna be broken when it doesn't suit somebody? :rolleyes:

I asked the question below in the other thread but I'm still awaiting a reply...

Quick question to the Liverpool fans that are bitching about not being allowed into the CL league next year if they win.

Just suppose that Utd., Arsenal or Chelsea won the the CL this year but only finished 5th behind Liverpool, would you gladly give up your CL spot next year so that the winners could defend their title even though they couldn't manage to finish 4th?

B.

jesus_thats_gre

I am not planning to use this as a basis for any argument as to why Liverpool should qualify over Everton..

I assumed it would be a landslide but I was unsure what people though after reading the thread I linked too..

Third_Echelon

Winning the CL

When i first saw this thread it looked like you were talking about the current everton/liverpool scenario....

Winning the CL is a more prestigious honour than finishing 4th in the EPL.

With the current scenario though, if pool win the CL and Everton finish 4th, the CL spot should go to Everton without a doubt.

The qualification for the competition is decided over a 38 game league season and finishing in one of the qualifying spots is a just reward for finishing in the top 4.

Winning the CL is a different honour and at the end of the day equates to a cup run, which is very different to a whole league season. Winning the CL shouldn't mean Liverpool getting next years spot ahead of Everton if the doomsday scenario comes to pass..

The thread is a bit pointless to be honest....

nuff said.

opr

BaZmO* wrote:

I have to say that is an absolutely ridiculous way to have a poll.

however, as far as getting a place in the Champions League, you HAVE to finish 4th or better in your domestic league to qualify, END OF!!

What's the point in having the rules if they are just gonna be broken when it doesn't suit somebody? :rolleyes:


B.

But its not " END OF " the rules make provisions for this . Where is the rule that states if you finish 4th you get a champions league spot ?

If an English team wins the Champions League and do not finish in the top four, The FA can request that this team qualify automatically for the Champions League, but the fourth-placed team in the Premiership is entered into the UEFA Cup.


Rules


Oh and very clever thread Its funny to see everyone voting for Liverpool but then having to try and clarify why they did so .

DoctorEdgeWild

opr wrote:

Oh and very clever thread Its funny to see everyone voting for Liverpool but then having to try and clarify why they did so .

There was no option to vote for Liverpool in the poll. They have neither finished 4th in the pL nor won the Champions League.

A Dub in Glasgo

opr wrote:

Oh and very clever thread Its funny to see everyone voting for Liverpool but then having to try and clarify why they did so .

Eh? You are jumping to all sorts of conclusions. I never voted for Liverpool

yop

Bit of non sensical poll, of course winning CL is better than finishing 4th, even my granny knows that! BUT if you have not finished in a position that gives you entry into the CL for the following season why the hell should that change now?

In the old league was it not the case that if you won the EC and you did not win the domestic league then you did not qualify for the following years competition?

Then is it not the case that when the CL came into place, that the team who finished 1st & 2nd went straight to group stages and that the teams in 3rd and 4th went into qualifying rounds?

So then why would this change now? At the end of the day if you have not played good enough soccer all season to finish in 4th or higher then why should you get a CL because you won the competition?

opr

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Eh? You are jumping to all sorts of conclusions. I never voted for Liverpool

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

There was no option to vote for Liverpool in the poll. They have neither finished 4th in the pL nor won the Champions League.

This was what i meant by it being clever ??

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Following on from this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=250295&page=1&pp=20

1) Finishing 4th in the PL

2) Winning the CL

Finishing third in the premiership is definitely better than winning the CL . After that it depends which team is doing what. :cool:



BTW since when did how each user vote appear on polls? Great idea makes interesting reading.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Muppet wrote:

Finishing third in the premiership is definitely better than winning the CL . After that it depends which team is doing what. :cool:

You conceding already :eek:

The Muppet

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You conceding already :eek:

No , thats what you call preemptive posturing.

eirebhoy

Winning the CL

The Muppet wrote:

BTW since when did how each user vote appear on polls? Great idea makes interesting reading.

Since I can remember anyway. There's a box you tick when posting the poll.

jesus_thats_gre

Yeah just ticked the appropriate option while setting up the pole..

knobbles

Winning the CL

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

Winning the CL is a far better achievement than finishing in 4th in the PL.

However at the start of the season, 4th place was named as a way into the Champions league as it has been for a couple of seasons now. I think if it comes down to it, league position takes precedence and that team (likely Everton) should be in next year CL.

agreed on both parts,
yes CL win is a greater achievement but all premiership teams began the season knowing a top 4 finish would qualify to the CL and you can't go bending those rules in the middle(or in this case at the end) of the season

mike65

This is chalk and cheese really.You cant compare the two as clearly they're very different types of competiton.

Mike.

uberwolf

well here's my 2 cents..

And it has been revised. Given the situation the FA have to pick Everton.

It should be up to the competition organisers to invite back the winners by dispensation. If they are unwilling to do this the FA shouldn't defer to the CL because it undermines their own league in deference to another competition. And credit where credit is due to Everton if they go ahead and secure it. They've already secured European competition for the first time in ten years last weekend afaik.

What however of this argument. It is the FAs reponsibility to nominate the best 4 teams to represent the league in the CL. By winning it Chelsea or Liverpool are laying claim to the best representative. The other three places defer to the league. It's a misnomer in this case to suggest 'Pool were taking the 4th spot. They'd be taking 1st spot.

As Utd demonstrated time and time again, winning the CL is a greater achievement than winning the PL, not to mind 4th place.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I cannot believe that there is anybody who would think that finishing fourth in a mediocre footballing league is better than winning the biggest competition in European football.

jesus_thats_gre

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I cannot believe that there is anybody who would think that finishing fourth in a mediocre footballing league is better than winning the biggest competition in European football.

One of them is a particularly vocal Everton supporter too

eirebhoy

Winning the CL

The only reason I voted for 4th is because I think Everton deserve the CL spot more than Liverpool (if the league table stays the way it is), which is basically why this debate was started. Winning the CL is certainly a bigger acheivement than coming 4th though. I don't think anyone that actually voted in the poll or anyone on the planet thinks differently.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Good of you to answer a completely different question than the one you were asked.

KdjaCL

Is this a joke?

Or should it be "which is better achievment for Liverpool"

Or else its just the most retarded thing ever.


kdjac

Third_Echelon

Winning the CL

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

One of them is a particularly vocal Everton supporter too

...don't make me squirt some blue on you

Third_Echelon

Winning the CL

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Good of you to answer a completely different question than the one you were asked.

The OP linked the other thread, which was about the whole doomsday scenario, so the question in the first place was pointless really as it is obviously better to win the CL than finish 4th..

Its a bit like asking what is better? A ferrari or an alfa romeo?

...as for the other debate :rolleyes:

PHB

Winning the CL

I voted 4th because I'm seeing it in the eyes that I think that Everton getting 4th spot is a greater achievment to Liverpool winning the CL, and since thats the honest context thats why I voted it

LegacyUser

Listen it won't be an issue. Liverpool will not win the champions league.

Dublin's Finest

Everton have to get there shot at a Cl place though. I know it's harsh if (and that's a massive one) Liverpool win.

It's what they do in the World Cup though. Winner isn't guaranteed auto qualification anymore.

eirebhoy

Winning the CL

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Good of you to answer a completely different question than the one you were asked.

There is basically only one answer to the question so I thought people were answering it in context to this season. ie. Whats is a better achievement: Everton coming 4th in the premiership or Liverpool winning the CL? I would vote for Everton. Thats the reason I voted for the first option. I don't think Chelsea, Man U or Arsenal coming 4th would actually be an achievement tbf.

-oRnein9-

To win the CL is a better achievement imo regardless of team attributes although everton finishing fourth is quite an achievement in its self, but as the debate rages on concerning only four english representatives to be eligable for the Champions League, lets say Liverpool do win the CL and the premiership does finish as follows:
1) Chelsea
2) Arsenal
3 Man Utd
4) Everton
Both United and Everton will have to qualify so who's to say whether the FA will have to consider this prediciment. But wouldn't it be harsh and i say this as a Man U fan if Liverpool won the CL and weren't allowed to compete in it next year.

Also I don't think I got this point across in the above text but if Utd or Everton failed to qualify and Liverpool won the CL shouldn't Liverpool be entered since england are allowed 4 representatives, ah well it's starting to get a bit too technical for my liking, thats my two cents anyway.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

PHB

Winning the CL

Yeh, live in a dream world.
The FA might get away with pushing Everton around, but they wouldn'y have a chance against Man Utd

knobbles

Winning the CL

-oRnein9- wrote:

Also I don't think I got this point across in the above text but if Utd or Everton failed to qualify and Liverpool won the CL shouldn't Liverpool be entered since england are allowed 4 representatives, ah well it's starting to get a bit too technical for my liking, thats my two cents anyway.

err, at the expense of the team that knocked out utd/everton in the qualifier??
no

the english teams would be seeded so it would be a major shock if even everton didn't get through that one qualifying stage. A few years ago Utd lost to some hungarian team 1-0 in the 1st leg but cruised it at home

Memnoch

lets wait till Liverpool actually WIN the champions league. If and when that happens we can debate about weather or not they should get the spot. Right now it's all hot air really

BaZmO*

Just thinking, how would it work IF the FA let Liverpool go through if they won the CL?

By that I mean, as it stands the first and second team in the Premiership qualify automatically and the third and fourth team have to go into a playoff scenario.
So lets just say Liverpool do get their place at the expense of Everton, does that mean they go into the playoffs or go straight through. The latter case scenario meaning that the second place team gets bumped down to third?

B.

Jonny Arson

There is only one answer and that is winning the Champions League. Which sounds more impressive, ''we are 4th in England'' or ''we are the best in Europe''? There you go. Liverpool's priority should be to win the CL and they really should give up hope of 4th place. They are in a great position to win the competition. Winning the CL is an easier prospect for them than finishing 4th at this stage.

eirebhoy

Winning the CL

BaZmO* wrote:

Just thinking, how would it work IF the FA let Liverpool go through if they won the CL?

By that I mean, as it stands the first and second team in the Premiership qualify automatically and the third and fourth team have to go into a playoff scenario.
So lets just say Liverpool do get their place at the expense of Everton, does that mean they go into the playoffs or go straight through. The latter case scenario meaning that the second place team gets bumped down to third?

B.

It'd be up to the FA. Interesting question though.

Third_Echelon

Winning the CL

From BBC this morning Linky:

BBC Sport wrote:

Uefa insists Liverpool are not guaranteed entry into next season's Champions League unless they finish fourth in the Premiership.

Liverpool could win the Champions League but miss out by finishing outside the top four league placings.

Uefa communications director William Gaillard said the trophy would not be devalued if the holders were missing.

He told BBC Radio Five Live: "We don't feel the competition would be damaged or we would have it in the rules."

Fourth place is currently occupied by Liverpool's rivals Everton, who need six points from four games to qualify for the Champions League.

Uefa have made it clear it is up to the English Football Association to decide which four teams they enter.

But there are widespread reports claiming the FA's board confirmed they will enter the top four Premiership teams after a meeting on Thursday.

That means the pressure is mounting on Liverpool to clinch Champions League qualification via the Premiership.

Liverpool's Champions League semi-final clash with Chelsea is goalless after the first leg at Stamford Bridge.

But Gaillard is adamant the Champions League would still be as prestigous next season, even if the holders were not playing.

He said: "It is something we have contemplated and we wouldn't have a second thought about it.

"At the same time we would not be outraged if we were asked to include the winner instead of the fourth-placed team. It is up to the FA to decide."

Gaillard added: "For Liverpool to enter the Champions League next year, they have to finish in the top four spots in the English league.

"The rules are clear, but at this stage we are still rather far away from this because Liverpool have to win two games to win the Champions League and there is also nothing to stop them finishing fourth in the English league.

"Our chief executive officer Lars-Christer Olsson was quite clear on this. He said the rule had been made so that teams would qualify through their national league and this is the way we would like the Champions League to continue."

A Dub in Glasgo

I don't see how that is a euro setback

It was highly unlikely tha the English FA would agree to dropping the 4th place team at this stage of the season. The only way out of this for the future is for the English FA to clarify their rules to state something like the following:

The UEFA CL winner will replace the 4th placed team should the CL winner not attain the position to qualify for the CL through the normal channels (normal being 1 - 4 place in the EPL). or

'Should the CL winner not qualify for the CL through the league position, they forfeit their right to defend the trophy'

In this way, there will be no confusion or debate as to who will qualify for the CL.

yop

I think that the FA are waiting for Chelsea to knock pool out of the CL before they make any comment!