O'Sullivan and other athletes to receive funding

Amz

It has just been announced that Sonia O'Sullivan has won her appeal to receive funding under the carding the scheme from the Irish Sports Council, this was based on her performances this year.

Allistair Cragg who submitted a late application has also been granted €14,325.

Full story here.

Does the fact that Cragg has now applied for and received funding, change people's views of him in any way?

Pherekydes

I'd imagine that after his Madrid gold he's entitled to some funding. After all, he is promoting this country.

walshb

When O when is Sonia going to call it a day. 'm sick and tired of seeing her embarrassing herself in major championships. She's 4-5 yrs past it, but still trying to convince us of her merit. Don't waste money on a 'has-been', invest in the up and coming athletes. Sonia, you've had your day, you were magnificent....thanks...now step aside and stop trying to con us.....

Pherekydes

She's still the number one in this country, in a number of events. So surely the number one is entitled to funding?

How's she trying to con anyone? She runs coz she loves it, not to satisfy certain people.

How can she be past it, when she's still number 1 in the country?

Give us an indication of when she embarrassed herself in a major?

If you're sick and tired of watching her, then surely there's some other sport you'd prefer to watch?

walshb

No slow coach, I love athletics and you obviously do not follow the sport much. Her last major performance was a silver in the 2000 olympics...brilliant. She was lapped in Athens, and for me anyway that's not the way an athlete should end her career. It is not the first time she was lapped in a MAJOR. Fair enough, she may be number 1 in Eire, but that's not saying much then is it for the new talent. Money is what is now driving Sonia. Like I said before, in her day she was amazing, one of Irelands true sporting heroes. That's gone now, so leave it Sonia because I don't like watching her 400 metres behind the field and close to tears. That's not sport, that's just SAD......

Roper

Funding Sonia O'Sullivan is like opening a soccer coaching school for Damien Duff. How can an athlete who's reached the very pinnacle of achievement and made money be considered more worthy of funding than someone at grassroots level within the sport?
It's a disgrace, as watcher of athletics as opposed to someone directly involved in the sport I am annoyed. I can only imagine how under-funded and under-facilitated coaches feel when they hear where the money goes.

Pherekydes

walshb wrote:

No slow coach, I love athletics and you obviously do not follow the sport much

I certainly do follow Athletics. I know a fair bit about it. I recall SOS winning double silver in Euro 2002. Do you?

Do you remember her winning team bronze in the WXCC in Dublin in 2002?

She was 4th in the World Half Marathon Championship in 2004.

Are these the results of an athlete who is past it?

Remember, after Atlanta 96 certain experts were calling for Sonia to give up and saying she would never make it back.

So she was lapped in Athens. She didn't end her career there. She has won races, and competed well, since.

Squirrel

walshb wrote:

No slow coach, I love athletics and you obviously do not follow the sport much. Her last major performance was a silver in the 2000 olympics...brilliant. She was lapped in Athens, and for me anyway that's not the way an athlete should end her career. It is not the first time she was lapped in a MAJOR. Fair enough, she may be number 1 in Eire, but that's not saying much then is it for the new talent. Money is what is now driving Sonia. Like I said before, in her day she was amazing, one of Irelands true sporting heroes. That's gone now, so leave it Sonia because I don't like watching her 400 metres behind the field and close to tears. That's not sport, that's just SAD......

That was one of her great moments. Did she give up like a certain British athlete? No, she finished and in doing so she showed her strong character, it's alot easier to drop out than be lapped.

Pherekydes

Roper wrote:

How can an athlete who's reached the very pinnacle of achievement and made money be considered more worthy of funding than someone at grassroots level within the sport?

The number ones in each and every event, at the very least, should be funded. The fact that so many aren't is not Sonia's fault. Sonia got her funding, but not from some other developing athlete. That money would have gone down the drain, or to another sport.

walshb

Well lads, what's the point in arguing....like a lot of Irish people, we seem to celebrate failure in this country...what a shame.......Fom Ireland finishing 16th in the WC to Sonia being lapped in numerous races....save the applauds for the winners, ie the Carruth's and Roche's etc etc. Sonia, you were brilliant, but your days of success are well and truly over

Roper

Slow coach wrote:

Sonia got her funding, but not from some other developing athlete. That money would have gone down the drain, or to another sport.

The contention that it would have gone to another sport is exactly my point. Would it not have been better served there at some grassroots level even if it wasn't in your favoured athletics? I think as those who fund the sports council (ie. the taxpayer) we should take a holistic view of the state of sport in general in Ireland.
I don't think we can speculate where the money might have gone. We all know a lot of it goes to waste. The fact that long past her peak (she was an exceptional athlete) Sonia remains number one may be more symptomatic of the dearth of funding and support young athletes in Ireland receive rather than any indian summer she is having in her career.

I should emphasise that I think she can hold her head up as among the best Ireland has ever produced. I respect that she wants to continue to compete, but she shouldn't be funded by the sports council.

walshb

Squirrel wrote:

That was one of her great moments. Did she give up like a certain British athlete? No, she finished and in doing so she showed her strong character, it's alot easier to drop out than be lapped.

Oh my god Squirrel, you are actually trying to say that Sonia being lapped in Athens was a great moment. You are hard up for entertainment mate...She knew in her heart that she wasn't going to figure in the final. She had given it everything just to qualify and barely. Sonia hadn't got two races of 5km in her over a 5 day period. That was her problem. I'm not faulting her for this, because after all she was about 34yrs old in Athens. Her legs weren't up to running two seriously competitive 5km races in that short period. She knew this, because it happened her before in another major. She should hav stayed out of the final because I for one knew well she'd embarrass herself and she knew too....NO shame in the woman, that's the travesty....

Pherekydes

walshb wrote:

to Sonia being lapped in numerous races...Sonia, you were brilliant, but your days of success are well and truly over

Numerous? Enumerate them then.

And fourth in the World half marathon is not enough? Who would you fund?


As to Roper, do you not think that Athletics should be properly funded? You bemoan the state of Athletics, but I feel you, like the IOC, would give the money to other sports. What sports do you think should get the funding, if not athletics? We don't produce top athletes regularly because we don't support them. Then we whinge when our athletes get lapped at the Olympics. Then there follows much hand wringing and heavily funded reviews and what do we conclude? We'll cut funding to our top athletes. That'll be sure to improve results.

Alternative: Invest in good indoor facilities. Invest in coaching. Invest in up-coming talent. And invest in our top athletes, regardless of age. If they're good enough, the upcoming talent will displace Sonia.

I'm sure Brian Kerr will attempt to turn out Ireland's best team for our crucial World Cup qualifiers in the next week. I'm pretty certain he'll just decide to pick the best players and not bypass any that just seem to be past their best.

Roper

do you not think that Athletics should be properly funded? You bemoan the state of Athletics, but I feel you, like the IOC, would give the money to other sports. What sports do you think should get the funding, if not athletics? We don't produce top athletes regularly because we don't support them. Then we whinge when our athletes get lapped at the Olympics. Then there follows much hand wringing and heavily funded reviews and what do we conclude? We'll cut funding to our top athletes. That'll be sure to improve results

I never said that Athletics funding should be cut, I said that money shouldn't be given to Sonia at the expense of another young sportsman.
Other than that, we are in agreement. We don't fund our athletes properly at ANY level. But our priority should surely be the younger athletes and €24K would be better spent at grassroots.

I'm sure Brian Kerr will attempt to turn out Ireland's best team for our crucial World Cup qualifiers in the next week. I'm pretty certain he'll just decide to pick the best players and not bypass any that just seem to be past their best.

That analogy doesn't hold up as Sonia will still go to the Olympics/WC/EC. If she's among the best we have to offer then she should go. I just don't believe a financially well off athlete should receive funding to do so.

walshb

Slow Coach, I don't have all day to go through her career but I do remember her finihing miserably more than once in a major championship. The bottom line is that she is now wll over the hill. You cannot argue that. She has been for several yrs. My god she used to always beat Radcliffe and Holmes. Now they whip her. Holmes is a little sussy but Paula is just that bit younger. Ther's no shame in losing to a younger fitter athlete, but to be laped when you now your not up to it is a little different

Pherekydes

walshb wrote:

because after all she was about 34yrs old in Athens. Her legs weren't up to running two seriously competitive 5km races in that short period.

Kelly Holmes was 34, too. Her failure had nothing to do with 34. She had a sick stomach.

But you follow Athletics so closely, you'd know this, and you'd also know she won the Flora Light challenge over 5k:

The Irish star, who was lapped in Athens after going down with a stomach problem, outkicked the former double Olympic 10,000m champion to win in 15:06 in scorching conditions.

Tulu, who took Olympic bronze in Athens, set the initial pace and held a 20m lead through the opening kilometre in 2:56 as O'Sullivan led the chasing group.

Her 34 year old legs? No problems there, apparently.

As regards Sonia being finished post Sydney, she set a World best for 10 miles in 2002, and won the Great North run that year.

Sonia is far from finished.

Pherekydes

walshb wrote:

Slow Coach, I don't have all day to go through her career but I do remember her finihing miserably more than once in a major championship.

Yep. And one of those was Atlanta '96. Should have quit then, shouldn't she?

You still haven't addressed the numerous fine performances she's had since Athens. (i.e. Since she's been finished)

Pherekydes

Roper wrote:

If she's among the best we have to offer then she should go. I just don't believe a financially well off athlete should receive funding to do so.

If she's among the best, and she should go, then surely she should be funded. It shouldn't matter what she earns. Roy Keane won't have to put his hand in his pocket to represent his country, and neither should Sonia. Or anyone else, for that matter.

walshb

Slow Coach, are you telling me that O'Sullivan can still win either a European, world or Olympic medal....Get a grip mate, you don't have a bloody clue and like a lot of people, she has also fooled you. The Sonia of 93-2000 was awesome. The Sonia of 2000-present is just a flop.....has been and a con artist.....and is hanging on for every penny she can get. Best of luck to her, I don't begrudge her, but t try and say to me hat she's still very competitive and is close to her best proves what type of Sports fan you and her are. She knows she's finished, you don't...I don't know who is worse.....

Maars

I think WalshB feels the way he does because Sonia is getting money when she is no longer at her best. Even Slow Coach must agree with that. But that is not to say that she is not still a fine athlete. The reality is that she is coming down from a lofty heights that we all remember very well but as Slow Coach says even though she has fallen this far she is still the best in this country.

It is not her ranking in the country however that gets her the funding, it is simply because she meets the standards set down by the Olympic Council of Ireland(or whoever is doing the funding these days), whether that be "the athlete must be ranked in the top 10 in the world" or whatever.

I do agree that Sonia doesn't need the money as much as other athletes but perennially the Olympic Council have failed to give decent funding to the athletes that do need it(14k to Cragg is pathetic) so I wouldn't trust them to re-distribute the money for Sonia wisely.

With regard to Sonia having to pay to represent her country, I can assure Slow Coach that Sonia does not need to spend her grant money on any representative competitions. With the carding scheme she didn't even have to spend her money on physio.

However perhaps the way forward would be a means-testing(like the doley) for the athletes, all athletes to declare their winnings and sponsorhip and then we can see who actually needs the money?

Pherekydes

walshb wrote:

Slow Coach, are you telling me that O'Sullivan can still win either a European, world or Olympic medal....Get a grip mate, you don't have a bloody clue and like a lot of people, she has also fooled you. The Sonia of 93-2000 was awesome. The Sonia of 2000-present is just a flop.....has been and a con artist.....and is hanging on for every penny she can get. Best of luck to her, I don't begrudge her, but t try and say to me hat she's still very competitive and is close to her best proves what type of Sports fan you and her are. She knows she's finished, you don't...I don't know who is worse.....

This last post just proves that you're not reading my replies.

Since Sydney (Sonia the flop):

Two european championship silvers.
A WXC team bronze
A World best for 10 miles (A world best, FFS)
A win in the GNR
A win (post Olympics) in the Flora light challenge
A marathon PB
A half marathon PB (September 2004)
And most recently, a course record (Men's course record) in the Green belt relay.

If you don't rank any of these accomplishments, then you're no Athletics fan. You're just a big occasion sports fan who watches the Olympics, the World Cup, the Ryder Cup or the racing from Epsom. Haha, I'll bet you watch "The Games".

And to call her a con artist is just the purest ignorance.

Pherekydes

Maars wrote:

With regard to Sonia having to pay to represent her country, I can assure Slow Coach that Sonia does not need to spend her grant money on any representative competitions. With the carding scheme she didn't even have to spend her money on physio.

However perhaps the way forward would be a means-testing(like the doley) for the athletes, all athletes to declare their winnings and sponsorhip and then we can see who actually needs the money?

I'm perfectly aware that Sonia doesn't have to dip into her pocket to represent her country. That was my point. Nor should she or any other person.

I'm all for means testing, so long as the sport is funded properly.

walshb

I don't care whether or not Sonia is receivng money. My point is that she is 4-5 yrs over the hill. She wil never win another medal and her legs do not have 2 consecutive races in them at the top level in major chamionships. Tha's just nature and the nature of athleics. I she is the best we have, so be it...god help us, and if she is happy racing 3-400 metres behind the international athletes and the fans are happy, that's just great........

ecksor

walshb wrote:

No slow coach, I love athletics and you obviously do not follow the sport much.

Don't troll.

Roper wrote:

Funding Sonia O'Sullivan is like opening a soccer coaching school for Damien Duff. How can an athlete who's reached the very pinnacle of achievement and made money be considered more worthy of funding than someone at grassroots level within the sport?

I don't see how you can organise it differently though. At the end of the day the criteria for funding is clear (or at least it was) and she certainly is at a level that warrents funding. It's entirely possible to have a top ranked international athlete at the level she was at who doesn't have the earning potential she had so it's tough to say that you can fund up to a certain level but no further. Also, I may be wrong about this but I do think it was the case until quite recently, that funding carried with it a requirement that the funded athlete made themselves available for certain international fixtures. I'd rather not have our best athletes declining to run in things like the european cup.

walshb

If anyone happened to see Sonia being interviewed after the Mini marathon, they'd realise that she really is well past it. What a sorry sorry site she looked. I really felt sorry for her. She looked like a woman of 80, not mid 30's.
Fair enough she did win, but what a price she's paying.......

ecksor

Ah yes, winning a race is evidence of being past it. Oh no, sorry, the evidence is in the interview she gives afterwards. Are you trying to convince people or just wind people up?

Seriously, this is very unskillful trolling.

walshb

Past anything of bloody importance mate...mini bloody marathon. That's nothing to write home about. She's past winning anything of significance, but if you think winning the mini marathon in Dublin is an indication that Sonia is a threat to the world or is still on top of her game, I'll ask you if you are serious or just winding us up!!!!

Common Sense

walshb wrote:

If anyone happened to see Sonia being interviewed after the Mini marathon, they'd realise that she really is well past it. What a sorry sorry site she looked. I really felt sorry for her. She looked like a woman of 80, not mid 30's.
Fair enough she did win, but what a price she's paying.......

Maybe winning the race isn't "up there". But you and I must have been looking at a different race. Sonia was full of beans afterwards, smiling and waving to the crowd; then going back out the course to pace in some other runners. She certainly didn't look like a woman of 80 and she didn't look a "sorry sorry site (sic)" I understood she did a running training session in the morning followed by a weights session before she took part in the race. Incidentally, she didn't intend racing, merely pacing some runners. I don't know what point you're trying to make here. We all know she's not 27 any more and that our expectations are consequently not as great as they would've been 5 - 10 years ago. But she's still possibly the only athlete (as well as Cragg) capable of making a global final.

ecksor

walshb wrote:

Past anything of bloody importance mate...mini bloody marathon. That's nothing to write home about. She's past winning anything of significance, but if you think winning the mini marathon in Dublin is an indication that Sonia is a threat to the world or is still on top of her game, I'll ask you if you are serious or just winding us up!!!!

I'm not saying anything about the race indicating anything about her performance. You're the one using it, or her interview after it, as an example of her being past it. If you think that interview performance is a measure if athletic ability than I think you should stop posting on this forum.

I'm not asking you to stop bashing Sonia. I don't think she deserves it, but I'm aware that there's always somewhere out there ready to hurl mud. However, I am telling you to stop bashing her if you can't actually come up with a coherent or sensible argument behind it.

If you haven't noticed, this thread is about something completely different that you haven't really been bothered to discuss and have admitted you don't care to discuss. That indicates to me that you're just on some sort of trollling mission or irrelevant hobby horse. Take it elsewhere.