the whats wrong with man united thread..

wheres me jumpa

it is very much damage limitation time at old trafford. next season is potentially fergies last year and he will be going all out to save his career.

i personally think we need to revert to a 4-4-2. we have tons of ability up front but when we play the one up we cant seem to cope with good defences.

im believing more and more that the reason we are playing 5 in the middle is to protect keane which is madness. roy keane has been one of the greatest players this club has ever seen but that doesnt mean the system should be moulded around him.

cournioni

Regardless of what happens, I think that next year will be Fergie's last year at Old Trafford. If we win the treble again next year he will want to go out on a high and if we win nothing next year he will know himself that it is time to pack it in.

Ronan|Raven

Not a untied fan but I think one of fergies biggest mistakes has been playing smith on such limited occasions.

elbow316

If we win the treble again next year

Cheers for giving me a laugh so early in the morning


I personally don't think Keane will start all that many games next year as I fully expect United to bring in someone like Van Bommel/Essien to take over from him.

yop

I agree with Porn, last year.
If we can get Essien, Given and Bouma then I think we will be back up there again
If Ronaldo can improve his crossing and Richardson can take over from Giggs we should be covered.
Time will tell

PHB

Problem with 4-3-3 is that while its a graet system for say Chelsea etc. it does not suit United's strengths.

We have 4 front men, three of them world class imo, not Smith, hes ****, but he has got gusto so you can forgive him.
We have two wingers. Thats it! Ronaldo and Giggs. And while I think Giggs is the best player United have ever or will ever had, he is getting on a bit, injured a bit more. RIchardson might take over, but I wouldnt bet on it. Fergie doesnt seem to be favouring the youth system much anymore.
Keano is getting past it, and so is Scholes. THe latters passing of late has actually been poor, something which normally just doesnt happen.

Uniteds strength is without a doubt in their strikers and defense atm, but their midfield is really lacking. Fix it?
Buy more players
Change the system

wheres me jumpa

even in the treble year uniteds main strength has always been their attack. with their current system they seem to think they can defend a play a patient game. liverpool and at times chelsea have proven this year that the best way for an english team to win is to blow the opposition way.

im referring of course to the stat iverpool made against juventus and indeed against chelsea, also chelseas start against barca.

this is exactly what untied were doing in europe the year they won it. can ye all remember some of the scorelines in the latter stages of that campaign??!

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

And while I think Giggs is the best player United have ever or will ever had

PORNAPSTER wrote:

If we win the treble again next year he will want to go out on a high and if we win nothing next year he will know himself that it is time to pack it in.

Have I stumbled onto the humour forum by mistake?

B.

Bowser

Man Uniteds problem is so simple. They were playing well and then Van Nistelroy came back from injury so they had to fit him into the team dropping Rooney from out and out striker to play behind him. You should never change a winning team. No matter how good a play he is.

Arsenal have done this too. Sol Campbell hasnt started a match since returning from injury and Arsenal have only conceded once in 11 matches.

To top it all off United are not finishing games off and plenty of good chances are being missed. The depth of their squad isnt there either.

Next season, they will not have a reserve squad as they are getting rid of it so they cant develop players themselves. (They will loan them out). A big problem is the standard of reserve team in teh north is low when compared to the south of england where, Arsenal, Charlton & Southampton.

wheres me jumpa

united reserves won their league this year.

but their reserves arent really first team material. a few players have hinted at making the breakthrough but it hasnt happened for one reason or another.

when you compare thi sto the players arsenal have coming through i see your point.

ziggy

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wheres me jumpa

lets not forget saha hasnt played a full season in some time now. from wha i have saw of him he looks very good and a season of football is badly needed.

MrJoeSoap

ziggy67 wrote:

He is a Kevin Phillips/Marcus Stewart type player who was in good form at just the right time to get a big move.

Kevin Phillips is one of only three players to score 30 goals in the Premiership in a season and scored 132 goals in 236 appearances for Sunderland.

Plus, what big move did he get?

Also, he just got Southamptons Opta Player of the Month.

On the topic, I can't see even 2 or 3 big signings for United making much of a difference next season. It'll be a couple of seasons before they are back challenging for the league, and competing for trophies in Europe.

Bowser

I agree with you Joe Soap. Considering that age of their squad I cant see them having a major impact in Europe in the next 3 seasons.

I doubt united have much to spend either considering the amount they have spent in recent seasons.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

MrJoeSoap

I still don't see any Saha/Phillips similarities.

Heinze is looking like missing the cup final too, on a side note.

BaZmO*

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Heinze is looking like missing the cup final too, on a side note.

Ah he'll be no loss, he's a brutal player!

B.

wheres me jumpa

people are split on heinze. i think he is a good player and just what united need, a committed and fearless defender, nothing fancy about him!

MrJoeSoap

www.dictionary.com wrote:

bru·tal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (brtl)
adj.
Extremely ruthless or cruel. Crude or unfeeling in manner or speech.

I think he's good, great header of the ball and gets stuck in. Otherwise, United are stuck with John O' Shea, or even... god forbid... PHIL NEVILLE!

wheres me jumpa

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I think he's good, great header of the ball and gets stuck in. Otherwise, United are stuck with John O' Shea, or even... god forbid... PHIL NEVILLE!

ah no leave phillip alone!

to be honest i would much rather phil at right back than gary. i appreciate garys service for the club but i just think the man has mental problems and of course has this curious desire to put his hand up to play offside when there is quiet clearly two defenders behind him!

MrJoeSoap

wheres me jumpa wrote:

i appreciate garys service for the club but i just think the man has mental problems

Brilliant quote!

Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, I've just contributed 3 posts to a thread about "What is wrong with Man Utd", maybe if I just stay quiet nobody will notice. [whistles]

impr0v

BaZmO* wrote:

Ah he'll be no loss, he's a brutal player!

B.

Yes, that's why most commentators seem to have trouble deciding between him and Ashley Cole for the premiership team of the season in that position.

Raskolnikov

It amazes me that people can stand by Ferguson despite the fact he's got it hopelessly wrong this season.

• The 5-4-1 formation was a total failure.
• Bar Rooney and Heinze, his transfer dealings have been abysmal.
• He's stood by Keane, Scholes and Giggs despite the fact they're no longer playing at the peak of their game consistently.

Fresh, more hungrier blood is needed at United, not old has-beens living off of a sucess that'll soon be achieved a decade ago.

yop

impr0v wrote:

Yes, that's why most commentators seem to have trouble deciding between him and Ashley Cole for the premiership team of the season in that position.

He's trolling, ignore him :rolleyes:

Heinze one of the buys of the season, wil be a big loss for the final

elbow316

Raskolnikov wrote:

• He's stood by Keane, Scholes and Giggs despite the fact they're no longer playing at the peak of their game consistently.

Fresh, more hungrier blood is needed at United, not old has-beens living off of a sucess that'll soon be achieved a decade ago.

I'd agree with that, how many times this season have United actually had their whole team turn up? Most of their best wins this season have been due to a couple of bits of magic from Rooney/Ronaldo/whoever.

They only seem to have their entire midfield turn up for the games against Arsenal!
Hopefully that changes for the game on the 21st :P

MisterAnarchy

Man Utd have been a team in decline since late 99.
Compare the spine of that team to now,Schmeichel,Stam,Keane ,Cole =Howard,Ferdinand,Pensioner Keane,Rooney.
Its worse in every area and the width of the team is gone.
The legs in midfield have gone and United now play at a pedestrian pace in many matches.
The team struggle to score from set pieces now and also the fast counter attack that served them so well over the last 10 years has gone.
The most important aspect though has been the change from 4-4-2 with 2 wide men.
Ferguson has bought too many water carriers and not enough playmakers over the last few years.
Fletcher,Djemba Djemba,Kleberson are all holding midfielders .
He has wasted over 100m euro on two vastly overated and overhyped English players Ferdinand and Rooney when there were better options available.
If the team is to rechallenge for the Champions League title a few players need to be bought.
A new attacking right back,a new solid centre half, ,a new midfield general to replace Roy Keane (Van Bommel),a new left winger (Joaquin) .
Go back to 4-4-2 and I think Utd would have a good team again.
But that wont happen as they are reluctant to spend money on the top players and seem to make a hash of any decent transfers.

cournioni

BaZmO* wrote:

Have I stumbled onto the humour forum by mistake?

B.

Key word being IF. Christ! :rolleyes:

smemon

Raskolnikov wrote:

It amazes me that people can stand by Ferguson

and your just talking about probably the most succesful manager ever! if you cant stand by him, who the hell can you stand by?!
no matter how rubbish he might be for one or 2 seasons you cant ignore his past achievements.

he's only human, of course he'll lose games, lose trophies. his signings the past few years havnt been all good but ronaldo/ heinze/ ferdinand/ rooney/ van nistelrooy have all come in and all of those are 1st team regulars. and without a doubt up their with anyone else.

sure the djemba's, forlan's etc of man utd havnt cut it but you cant expect every single singing to be world class. theres always going to be the flops. 3rd in the league and in the fa cup final isnt a dreadful season, it could be much worse.

tbh there isnt much between arse/manu and chelsea as weve seen when they go head to head so i dont know why people are calling for ferguson's head when the side is still packed with young talent that can play football. if utd finished 5th and didnt get to any major finals in cup comps it would be a poor season. that hasnt happened and doesnt look like happening in the future.

smemon

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Man Utd have been a team in decline since late 99.
Compare the spine of that team to now,Schmeichel,Stam,Keane ,Cole =Howard,Ferdinand,Pensioner Keane,Rooney.

in all fairness those '99 heroes were much older than utd's current 'spine' as you call it and had more experience, bags of it. ferdinand & rooney are long term investments and already have plenty of experience and regulars in both utd's and england's setup. stam and cole were not at the same age. so on paper they should eclipse stam and cole if they continue to develop and gain experience.

keano is still there, not as quick but come on its roy keane- still invaluable to utd and still leading by example. a huge factor is howard. cant argue with you there.

replacing schmeichel is pretty much impossible. probably one of the best keepers of all time. frey/ given/ casillas etc have been linked and if they could come to OT and keep things tight at the back i think you'd find utd wouldnt be far from the side of '99.

a new left winger, keeper and perhaps a young talented central midfield player is all that is required. the rest of the side is strong.

i still believe giggs causes a huge problem in utd's setup when he doesnt perform which is 70/80% of the time. heinze is a superb left back and with a quality consistent man in front of him the left side would be water tight.

MisterAnarchy

forlan's etc of man utd havnt cut it

Forlan has scored 20 goals in La Liga this season for Villareal !!
More than all Utd's ,4 strikers combined .
Weird isnt it.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

MrJoeSoap

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Forlan has scored 20 goals in La Liga this season for Villareal !!
More than all Utd's ,4 strikers combined .
Weird isnt it.

Rooney - 11
Van Nistelrooy - 4
Smith - 6
Saha - 1

You don't need Carol Vorderman to tell you that makes 22.

yop

Fair point on Forlan but how many game has he played compared to the United Strikers?

RVN
Appearances: 24(2)
Goals: 14

Smith
Appearances: 39(15)
Goals: 9

Rooney
Appearances: 39(5)
Goals: 17

Saha
Appearances: 19(8)
Goals: 2

MrJoeSoap

I agree that the United strikers have been mis-firing, but I just don't like to see incorrect statements given as facts go un-noticed.

Can't find how many games he has played, my limited Spanish hinders my navigation of these websites! I could get directions to the Cathedral, but I can't seem to do this...

[EDIT] Also, those figures you gave were for all competitions, they've played significantly less in the league [/EDIT]

Keano_sli

A reliable Keeper and a replacement for Keane are a must, New left winger and right back are desirable and yes we sgould go back to player 4-4-2, we're a much better team playing this way or at least the greatest success has come when playing this way.
I hope money will be available to buy the first 2 but I very much doubt Fergie can bring in 4 quality players unless of course the story about Sheik Mohamad al Maktoum gazzumping Glazier and and buying united is true! Apparently he is a genuine fan, Apparently!

LegacyUser

Remember something people. Alex Ferguson made Man United the club it is today and that is why he has the choice to call it a day! I want him to stay there as long as he wants. I have faith in him.

smemon

cheesedude wrote:

Remember something people. Alex Ferguson made Man United the club it is today and that is why he has the choice to call it a day! I want him to stay there as long as he wants. I have faith in him.

pretty much sums it up. the man is a legend and utd through and through. you cant live of the past but by buying rooney, ronaldo, ferdinand, smith etc that tells you fergie is looking to keep utd fresh and hungry.

what i find funny is that arsenal are in the very same situation to utd yet that goes unnoticed :rolleyes: no threads about arsenal's failures

case n basket

smemon wrote:

what i find funny is that arsenal are in the very same situation to utd yet that goes unnoticed :rolleyes: no threads about arsenal's failures

Probably has something to do with Arsenal

- having lower expectations/demands (for now)
- haven't spent around £60m over the past 2 seasons
- are looking like finishing inside the top 2 for the 8th(?) year in a row
- aren't Liverpool's biggest rivals (anyone done a boards team/fan breakdown recently?)
- are having as much success recently as they have ever had (with the exception of the 1930s)
- look like a team on the up (this season is their 2nd highest points tally under Wenger, new stadium on the way, big transfer kitty for the summer).

Jivin Turkey

case n basket wrote:

Probably has something to do with Arsenal

- having lower expectations/demands (for now)
- haven't spent around £60m over the past 2 seasons
- are looking like finishing inside the top 2 for the 8th(?) year in a row
- aren't Liverpool's biggest rivals (anyone done a boards team/fan breakdown recently?)
- are having as much success recently as they have ever had (with the exception of the 1930s)
- look like a team on the up (this season is their 2nd highest points tally under Wenger, new stadium on the way, big transfer kitty for the summer).

You are also forgetting the emergence of young fresh and hungry talent in Fabregas, Senderos, and Van Persie to name a few.

United will most probably finish third, this will be their third finish outside the top two in four years, that is definately a shift in the balance of power. They really need to look at bringing in some new players to replace or at least challenge the old hands. I dont think the Keane Scholes axis, which most of their success was built on, has the legs to cut it over a full season.

While both players are still incredible players in their own right, as a pairing they are getting too old. They need a proven world class midfielder who can come in and share their work load if they want to challenge on all fronts.

jesus_thats_gre

,





There is no major problem at United as such.. Unfortunately it is impossible to be the best forever.. Liverpool had a decade or two off success and lost their crown to United in the early 90's.

What United need to do is strip out that older players in the team and reduce the average age of first team squad to the mid 20's. Have a small number of senior players in their late 20's and fill the rest of the positions with young fellas who are showing massive potential.

It worked for ye before and the success ye had pretty much started slipping away when the young starlets like Beckham and Scholes age a bit or were forced out.

I didn't really explain that the way I would have wanted but I hope ya get my point..

Basically you need an overhaul and **** loyalties.

jesus_thats_gre

smemon wrote:

and your just talking about probably the most succesful manager ever! if you cant stand by him, who the hell can you stand by?!
no matter how rubbish he might be for one or 2 seasons you cant ignore his past achievements.

he's only human, of course he'll lose games, lose trophies. his signings the past few years havnt been all good but ronaldo/ heinze/ ferdinand/ rooney/ van nistelrooy have all come in and all of those are 1st team regulars. and without a doubt up their with anyone else.

sure the djemba's, forlan's etc of man utd havnt cut it but you cant expect every single singing to be world class. theres always going to be the flops. 3rd in the league and in the fa cup final isnt a dreadful season, it could be much worse.

tbh there isnt much between arse/manu and chelsea as weve seen when they go head to head so i dont know why people are calling for ferguson's head when the side is still packed with young talent that can play football. if utd finished 5th and didnt get to any major finals in cup comps it would be a poor season. that hasnt happened and doesnt look like happening in the future.

You are starting to sound like a Liverpool fan..

Speaking from the 10 years experience I have of supporting a second best team, I can tell you that loyalty can only be given for so long..

Ye should expect every player who is going to be involved in the first team to be world class or without doubt show the potential whereby its nigh on certain he is going to make it. United are the biggest club in the world yet they do not have any of the best players in a specific position in the world.

Chelsea have Lampard, Robben, Carvalho, Terry, Duff and Makelele. Milan have Shevchenko, Kaka, Gattuso and Nesta. Barca have Ronaldinho, Eto...... Do you see where I am going with this. There is not one United player who you can honestly say would be the best in their position in England, never mind Europe...

For a long time you could say it and for a long time big clubs were persistently rumours of your big players being bought by European clubs. Besides for the rumour surrounding Ruud, there has been **** all of late.

As a Liverpool fan I have often defended mediocre players out of loyalty and this cannot be helped. Time for Fegie to be chopped and about 10 of his dodgy buys with him.

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

You are starting to sound like a Liverpool fan..

Speaking from the 10 years experience I have of supporting a second best team, I can tell you that loyalty can only be given for so long..

Ye should expect every player who is going to be involved in the first team to be world class or without doubt show the potential whereby its nigh on certain he is going to make it. United are the biggest club in the world yet they do not have any of the best players in a specific position in the world.

Chelsea have Lampard, Robben, Carvalho, Terry, Duff and Makelele. Milan have Shevchenko, Kaka, Gattuso and Nesta. Barca have Ronaldinho, Eto...... Do you see where I am going with this. There is not one United player who you can honestly say would be the best in their position in England, never mind Europe...

For a long time you could say it and for a long time big clubs were persistently rumours of your big players being bought by European clubs. Besides for the rumour surrounding Ruud, there has been **** all of late.

As a Liverpool fan I have often defended mediocre players out of loyalty and this cannot be helped. Time for Fegie to be chopped and about 10 of his dodgy buys with him.

The majority of United fans hold Fergie in high esteem for his acheievements and rightly so. To sack him would be akin to Liverpool of the 70s/80s sacking Shankly or Paisley. Fergie will never be sacked by United , I think Pornapster called it right, Fergie will step down in a seasson or two and I will be sad to see him go.

The loyaly being shown to Fergie indicates that United fans do not believe we have a right to win everything and are not the glory hunters we are portrayed to be. I find it funny that Liverpool fans in particular think United should sack fergie considering their recent Manegerial record. It took them years to sack underachieveing Houlier.



"I think we've turned the corner, next year will be our year."

Big Nelly

The Muppet wrote:

"I think we've turned the corner, next year will be our year."

And the other one was "he is the next Zidane!".....lol....must have said that 5 times for each useless player he bought from France......

Not many problems with Utd....need a few of there signings to work out in midfield and the problems are sorted......in the papers this morning about Chelsea want ROnaldo...... :rolleyes:

SteM

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Speaking from the 10 years experience I have of supporting a second best team, I can tell you that loyalty can only be given for so long..

Second best?!

Bowser

smemon wrote:

he's only human, of course he'll lose games, lose trophies. his signings the past few years havnt been all good but ronaldo/ heinze/ ferdinand/ rooney/ van nistelrooy have all come in and all of those are 1st team regulars. and without a doubt up their with anyone else.

And between those players you are talking about 100 million. Compare with Arsenal and comparable players : Pires (7 million), Cole (Free), Campbell (free or even Toure), Bergkamp (7 million or is long term replacement Van Persie cost 4 million), Henry (11 million).

The other thing is united had one incredible youth team, one!! They have not produced another youth player in a long time and buying success can be hit (chelsea) and miss (Lazio) unless your prepared to spend big which united are not anymore (Kleberson, Fortune, Smith)

jesus_thats_gre

The Muppet wrote:

I find it funny that Liverpool fans in particular think United should sack fergie considering their recent Manegerial record. It took them years to sack underachieveing Houlier.



"I think we've turned the corner, next year will be our year."

Thats my point Muppet. Liverpool fans have been extremely loyal to recent managers and look at the club now.. GH was given time out of loyalty and so was some of the dodgu signings he made like the next Zidane.

It is conceivable that United could slip well down the pecking order, as Liverpool slid duing the 90's, over the next 10 years if they do not make some hard decisions.

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Thats my point Muppet. Liverpool fans have been extremely loyal to recent managers and look at the club now.. GH was given time out of loyalty and so was some of the dodgu signings he made like the next Zidane.

It is conceivable that United could slip well down the pecking order, as Liverpool slid duing the 90's, over the next 10 years if they do not make some hard decisions.

I got your point JTG but you can not compare Fergie to Houlier. You just don't sack Legends. As I said United sacking Fergie would be akin to Akin to Liverpool sacking Paisley in 1980. They just would not have considered it. IMO Ferguson should be allowed to decide when he goes within reason, He will step down when he feels is is no longer up to the job. IT would be a travesty to blight his achievements by sacking him and if that means not winning the title for a few years well I would be prepared to accept that price. The mans a legend.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

BaZmO*

The Muppet wrote:

I got your point JTG but you can not compare Fergie to Houlier. You just don't sack Legends. As I said United sacking Fergie would be akin to Akin to Liverpool sacking Paisley in 1980. They just would not have considered it. IMO Ferguson should be allowed to decide when he goes within reason, He will step down when he feels is is no longer up to the job. IT would be a travesty to blight his achievements by sacking him and if that means not winning the title for a few years well I would be prepared to accept that price. The mans a legend.

Yeah I agree totally. You have to consider where Utd. would be if RA hadn't of bought Chelsea. They would be still in the running for the Premiership title. And at the moment they are in the FA Cup final and they got knocked out of the CL by what looks like the eventual champions, although anything can happen in the final!! But even still, the team that knocked them out are in the final.

As has been said a million times before, AF and Utd. have not suddenly become a crap team, it's just that Chelsea and Arsenal have raised their game considerably! Hell, just look at last seasons champions, they went the whole season unbeaten and this years champions won it almost tipping the 100 points mark!!!

B.

TheMonster

In the last 2 years in the league - it has only been Arsenals form last years and Chelseas forms this year that has been so far ahead of the rest that have caused Uts to slip up. They have not kept up with either but when compared to there own records over previous seasons has been to the same standard. The bar has been set higher - it is up to United to reach it again.

The performances in Europe have not been up to scratch though.

Major surgery is not needed in defence or attack. A GK is needed and Keanes replacement, possible Scholes even though at times he has been very good.

ziggy

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