Everton Get Major CL Boost

TheMonster

What would happen if the winners of the CL finished even outside a UEFA place? Entry to Uefa cup or nothing?

WhiteWashMan

TheMonster wrote:

What would happen if the winners of the CL finished even outside a UEFA place? Entry to Uefa cup or nothing?

god no!

that would be like milwall getting into europe for getting to the final of a major domestic trophy....

eirebhoy

Jivin Turkey wrote:

IMO if Liverpool win the Champions League they are far more deserving to defend it than a team that finishes 4th in a domestic league.

But winning the world cup means you are far more deserving of a place in the next one than the team that finishes 5th in a 10 team South American league. Its just tough luck.

I know what you're saying about not playing competitive being a disadvantage but it doesn't really change the point I'm making. The premiership is the qualification phase for Europe. Thats what they're all playing for (other than the trophy of course). BTW, I'm sure anyone who wins a world cup would take a bye into the next one like a shot. The reason they changed it possibly had something to do with France playing so poorly in WC2002, although not qualifying for the previous WC didn't seem to hinder them as they won it.

Ardent

The Rooster wrote:

I think a factor that weighed heavily on the FA was that if they picked Liverpool then Everton would have no chance. But by picking Everton, Liverpool still have a chance...

Weighed heavily my arse. Passed the buck more like it.

I wonder did they ponder that likelihood that Everton, with no little or no past European experience, will more than likely be drawn against a top seeded team in the qualifiers, e.g., Villareal, Valencia, Werder Bremen, Monaco, Marseille, Sampdoria, Rangers etc. Unlike the English FA, I'd put money on Everton not making the group stages of the CL and England having only three representatives for the competition.

WhiteWashMan

actually, i think the chap who made the final decision, is a 'pool supporter.

go figure...

Hydromonkey

Couple of articles from todays papers on the current situation:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1478164,00.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,27-1600126,00.html

Ardent

WhiteWashMan wrote:

actually, i think the chap who made the final decision, is a 'pool supporter.

go figure...

I think that made his position worse.

alfie

I think its hilarious that everyone saying Everton should be given the CL spot have failed to comment on what the FA said regarding Arsenal or Chelsea winning the Champions League

Bowser

alfie wrote:

I think its hilarious that everyone saying Everton should be given the CL spot have failed to comment on what the FA said regarding Arsenal or Chelsea winning the Champions League

Ye i reffered to it here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=252506&page=3

astrofool

I'd say the fact that it was Real Madrid that set the precedent in Spain, makes the precedent almost worthless. Real Madrid could probably finish 10th, and get knocked out of the group stage of the champions league, and the Spanish FA would still find an excuse to enter them.

BrookieD

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4522235.stm

Check out the link, and yes thats me Darren Brooks :-)

Keano_sli

~Rebel~ wrote:

You should email it to every address you can find at liverpool..just to be on the safe side uefa as well..It would actually be a shame for everton to be turfed out but may sway a little towards liverpool deserving to be in it on precedent and make a 5th spot..

They're about to talk about that article on the FA website on Sky sports News in a few minutes. They've just shown the page on the intro. Good old incompetant FA.
Still think Everton deserve their place though!

super_furry

Can't believe the cowards at the FA just took the page down - proof that they know they've made a major **** up. Another interesting point is that at the time that statement was made, Liverpool were fourth and would have been the team to be demoted to the UEFA Cup.

mike65

The FA have fecked up big time, they can take the page down but the truth is out here now. So they will have to explain what has prompted them to change policy, ie are Liverpool to "small" a club to allow to defend the title but Chelsea/Arsenal are prestigious enough for the FA to protect?

Double standards...

Here's another anomoly -

A loophole in UEFA rules has given the Football Association powerful ammunition in their bid to persuade European football chiefs to allow five English teams in the Champions League next season should Liverpool win the tournament but finish outside the top four in the Barclays Premiership.

UEFA's regulations state that if the winners come from Italy, England or Spain - who have each have four Champions League spots - still only four teams from any one country can qualify for the next season's competition.

But should the European champions come from another country such as Germany or France where only three teams qualify, UEFA's rules state those countries can have an extra team in the Champions League the following season

Mike.

eirebhoy

The page is here cached btw:
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:onrXpKyeFDQJ:www.thefa.com/TheFA/ContactUs/Postings/2004/03/European_Places.htm+&hl=en

super_furry

I bet they keep quiet on this now and just hope it goes away.

redspider

super_furry wrote:

The FA are hypocrites. Last season they were willing to change the rules for Chelsea and Arsenal: http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/ContactUs/Postings/2004/03/European_Places.htm

super_furry: you posted this yesterday and today its being discussed by
the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4522235.stm
RTE: http://www.rte.ie/sport/2005/0506/championsleague.html
and Sky on the box seemingly (but not on their website).

So, folks we read it on boards.ie first.
But did you find the info yourself or?

My gut feeling is that although the FA may have published this on their website last year, it may not have been an officla opinion. Having said that, the web is considered a publishing mechanism so Liverpool would have a clear case of a precedent in England being set.

Like others, although I think its nice to talk about this, Liverpool should concentrate on winning the CL first and foremost, then on seeing if they can get 4th. If the situation is still as it is then, then we can start the "lobbying".

Redspider

Guy:Incognito

redspider wrote:

Liverpool should concentrate on winning the CL first and foremost, then on seeing if they can get 4th.

Think you mean that the other way round.

TwoShedsJackson

super_furry wrote:

I bet they keep quiet on this now and just hope it goes away.

Given the money and prestige involved in getting into the CL, that ain't going to happen.

Take it

Take it wrote:

I fell we aint heard the end of this yet

FA are definitly showing double standards i don't think anyone can argue that now! facts are facts last year chelsea would have got to defend the CL if they came 5th and won it, but now they are saying Liverpool can't.

And i can promise you that if it was Man U, Arse, Chelsea, Tott or what ever club you support was in Liverpools position that the majority of your opinions would change of course you would want your club to defend the CL

Problem is if it was Man U Chelsea or Arse the FA would have let them defend it but it only ickle ould liverpool, IF (big if) Liverpool do win it no matter what the FA do they will get critisied now they have really put them selfs in a stick situation and will probably wait till the CL final is over to comment on what they said last year

What ever happens the next Liverpool Derby will be intesting

PHB

Jesus christ, havn't you reversed it.
Whether Liverpool are playin utter ****e, they are still the second biggest club in England, second most powerful, most influence on the FA, public support.
Liverpool aren't in the top 3 in footballing terms, but in terms of actually power of influence, they are easily leagues above Arsenal and Chelsea.
This isn't the FA being mean to Liverpool.

If anyone are the underdogs here it is Everton.

----

If Man Utd came 5th this year and had won the CL, you know what I'd do?
I'd say, **** yes we won the CL, but were ****e in the premiership.
I'd probably notice how many matches United would have had to **** up after CL matches and realise why we're 5th.
I'd also realise that after that ****e a year, we don't deserve to be in the Champions League
TBH, I think secretly Benetiz is happy that Liverpool won't be in the CL next year.
It means he has the oppurtunity to actually challlenge in the league

WhiteWashMan

alfie wrote:

I think its hilarious that everyone saying Everton should be given the CL spot have failed to comment on what the FA said regarding Arsenal or Chelsea winning the Champions League

i have no idea what the FA said.
care to enlighten?

uberwolf

em. In essence. Last season the FA said the winning the CL was auto qual for the CL the subsequesnt season regardless of league placing. And that this would be at the expense of the 4th place team.

That statement was then removed from the FA website during the week after it was found by somebody. More than a year after it was first published. It is still available on the google cache and several papers have commented on it today. BrookieD is quoted on teh BBC site talking about it!

Take it

PHB wrote:

they are still the second biggest club in England, second most powerful, most influence on the FA, public support.

If Man Utd came 5th this year and had won the CL, you know what I'd do?
I'd say, **** yes we won the CL, but were ****e in the premiership.
I'd probably notice how many matches United would have had to **** up after CL matches and realise why we're 5th.
I'd also realise that after that ****e a year, we don't deserve to be in the Champions League
TBH, I think secretly Benetiz is happy that Liverpool won't be in the CL next year.
It means he has the oppurtunity to actually challlenge in the league

second biggest club in England what the hell are you on about???? where are you getting that from????

I find it really REALLY hard to believe you wouldn't argue the point that Man U shoudln't defend there CL title maybe you wouldn't personally but i know a LOT of other people here who are shooting down liverpool fans claim would. How many matchs did Liverpool lose after the champions league games answer = Lost 5 and Draw 4, that to me is the reason for as you put it Liverpools "****e" year

Benetiz wont be happy, thats crazy talk, how can he atract quality players while offering the Uefa cup football compaired to champions league

radiospan

Wasn't that article written last season though?

If it was written this season, applying to this year's competition then Liverpool would have a strong case, but that article has nothing to do with this season.

Rules change.

LFCFan

plazzTT wrote:

Wasn't that article written last season though?

If it was written this season, applying to this year's competition then Liverpool would have a strong case, but that article has nothing to do with this season.

Rules change.

but it shows double standards. Why say what they said last year but change their minds this year. If it had been the same teams involved you'd argue that they just changed their minds but it's different teams involved this year so it's double standards. You also have the situation that if it had happened last year that Arsenal or Chelsea won the CL and finished 5th, it would have been Liverpool kicked out of the CL spot and into the UEFA cup!!!!

PHB

Second biggest in the sense the United are the biggest.
Not in the footballing terms but in the finances/reputation/control/fan base etc

Listen to what Wenger said a while ago.
If you gave me the choice for next season,
Premiership or Champions League, I'd pick the premiership, no doubt about it.

Liverpool suffered this year because of the CL,

I'd probably notice how many matches United would have had to **** up after CL matches and realise why we're 5th.

Next year without the CL, they can actually focus on the premiership.
As for attracting players, I don't think you realise just how highly respected Benetiz is in spain. Thats Liverpool's main attraction, Benetiz

Take it

PHB wrote:

Second biggest in the sense the United are the biggest.
Not in the footballing terms but in the finances/reputation/control/fan base etc

Listen to what Wenger said a while ago.
If you gave me the choice for next season,
Premiership or Champions League, I'd pick the premiership, no doubt about it.

Liverpool suffered this year because of the CL,
Next year without the CL, they can actually focus on the premiership.
As for attracting players, I don't think you realise just how highly respected Benetiz is in spain. Thats Liverpool's main attraction, Benetiz

So u think Liverpool have more power and say over Arsenal and chelsea? i dont think so because to me what the FA have done (in that they seemed to changing there minds from this season and last season) proves that Arsenal, Chelsea (and Man U of course) have more power/say than Liverpool

Wenger said that when they were on the way out of the CL thats why he said that

Yes Benetiz is highly respected and not only in Spain! but can you tell me that if you were a top class footballer and Ferguson/Wenger/Jose offer you first team games and the CL would you go to Benetiz with first team games and Uefa cup cause lets face it if Liverpool go for a player more then likely one of the top 3 are in for him aswell, no matter how big Benetiz may be CL football is a huge attraction

opr

Milan director Umberto Gandini believes that Liverpool would deserve a place in next year's tournament if they are successful in Istanbul claiming it would be "unthinkable" for the winners not to be able to defend their trophy.
"It must be paramount for the title holder to be in," said Gandini.
"They will have won the right to defend their title on the pitch.
"It's not my place to tell The FA what to do but I honestly think this is the correct approach.
"If it happened in Italy, the fourth-placed team would go to the Uefa Cup, it's very simple.
"In our opinion, that's in the spirit of the rules because the title holder should always be No 1."

Glad someone has some sense in this mess !

yop

Glad someone has some sense in this mess !

Ya maybe, but there is more sense in leaving it the way it has been for the last number of years and not making exceptions, if they make an exception for the CL winners to get back into the competition then it sets a precident for other arguements.

At the end of the day pool have not, were not and are not good enough for the CL next season, if they were good enough then they would not need the FA or UEFA to get them into CL but would have put the performances in all season.

I don't here United or Arsenal complaining that because they were in the CL or FA that it meant it affected them in the PL.

At the end of the pool aren't good enough and will not be in the CL next season unless UEFA do something, moanin, groanin and crying on boards won't change that.

opr

yop wrote:

.

At the end of the day pool have not, were not and are not good enough for the CL next season, if they were good enough then they would not need the FA or UEFA to get them into CL but would have put the performances in all season.

Whatever about if we deserve to get into the champions league next season you saying we are not good enough for the competition next season has to be the stupids thing i have ever read.

For god sake Liverpool are in the Final of the competition !!!

uberwolf

Uefa and the FA allow two means of qualification for the CL - by winning it or via your final league positioning. It has always been that way. Back in days of European Cup as well. So this wouldn't be an exception - you may perceive it as such but it isn't the case.

I cannot conceive other arguments to allow entry. I agree absolutely that LFC were not good enough to qualify via league positioning this year. But no one is making that argument. To say that LFC haven't been good enough this season to qualify for next seasons CL is again based on the inaccurate presumption that the only path to CL football is via league placing. If they were to win the final it would be a mockery to suggest that they are not good enough for next years Comp.

Back when Liverpool won it they qualified more than once via winning it rather than through league placing. No precedent would be set this year - other than it being the first time the holders were not re-entered.

Ardent

yop wrote:

I don't here United or Arsenal complaining that because they were in the CL or FA that it meant it affected them in the PL.

Sorry, but ehhh...what exactly has that got to do with the price of tea in China? The argument for Liverpool to be in the CL next season, if they win the damned thing this season, is that they should have the automatic right to defend the trophy. I don't know what you're on about.

yop

The point is that since the winners of the CL don't get auto entry into the CL, or am I wrong on this point?

The way into the CL is to finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, pool finished 5th this year, so are not good enough to finish in 4th, therefore do not finish in the CL qualifying positions.
Since the CL started in the early 90's how many teams who have finished outside their domestic league qualifiying postions were given auto entry back into the competition?
Pretty clear to me.

uberwolf

only the first 2 get auto entry in England.

The winners of the competition have always defended their trophy. Always.

When it really was the champions cup the winners of the previous years competition were readmitted by UEFA. Now TBH Uefa should have had a firm rule in place long before this.

The FA will have to decide between Everton and Liverpool should Liverpool beat Milan at the end of the month.

As for how many were readmitted. 1. Madrid. 3 years ago. How clear does it seem to you now?

redspider

uberwolf wrote:

To say that LFC haven't been good enough this season to qualify for next seasons CL is again based on the inaccurate presumption that the only path to CL football is via league placing. If they were to win the final it would be a mockery to suggest that they are not good enough for next years Comp.

Exactly.

Is anybody honestly saying that the winners of the CL dont deserve to qualify more for next years competition than the likes of:

Pobeda, Pyunik, Sliema, Kaunas, Široki Brijeg, Neftchi, Gomel, Tirana, Skonto, Gorica, etc, etc, etc.

If Liverpool win the CL, there will be enormous pressure to make a place for them in next years CL. Uefa does not want to set the precedent that the winners dont qualify. If they dont let Liverpool in, it will be the first time ever.

However, lets all have this conversation *after* Liverpool win the CL, if they win the CL, and its a sizeable if, if not an IF. Uefa wont have to discuss it until the situation occurs, if it occurs.

Redspider

Ardent

yop wrote:

The point is that since the winners of the CL don't get auto entry into the CL, or am I wrong on this point?

What? Speak english.

Since the CL started in the early 90's how many teams who have finished outside their domestic league qualifiying postions were given auto entry back into the competition?
Pretty clear to me.

Real Madrid for one.

yop

What? Speak english.

Have manners..

As for how many were readmitted. 1. Madrid. 3 years ago.

Ok, but was it UEFA or Spanish FA who re-admitted Real?

Ardent

Spanish FA.

yop

Spanish FA.

So the decision by the English FA is to allow the teams who finish in the top 4 of the PL to enter the CL is it not???

So tell me why, since UEFA have not made any exceptions since the conception of the CL to allow the holders re entry, including Real Madrid, should they now make an exception?

PHB

I think that if a team has the ability to Win the CL they have obviously got some game.
But the fact that they couldn't beat Everton in the league, and could easily end up finishing 6th btw, lets not forget that, means that they have ****ed it up so badly they should be punished.

I dont think their amazing cup run makes up for their utterly utterly utterly ****e league run.

~Rebel~

The fact remains the holder has ALWAYS defended the title. I dont believe everton should be demoted as they fully earned their 4th spot (and well done to them) but uefa really have to make room for the holders at some level (should be auto qualification but im sure pool would take an earlier qualifying stage with both hands!). Im actually having trouble trying to see how people dont think they deserve it...they'd be the holders - the champions. Of Europe!! it is called the European Champions League after all..

Ardent

yop wrote:

So the decision by the English FA is to allow the teams who finish in the top 4 of the PL to enter the CL is it not???

So tell me why, since UEFA have not made any exceptions since the conception of the CL to allow the holders re entry, including Real Madrid, should they now make an exception?

I'll tell you why, it's very simple:

1) Since the CL as we know it started, the winners of the CL qualified for the competition the following season through their league anyway, with the exception of Real Madrid one year in particular.

2) UEFA never had to make a decision on Real Madrid because the Spanish FA sorted it first, they wanted Madrid in the CL.

You can be damn sure UEFA would have wanted Madrid in the competition as well at the time in question and I hope they'd want the holders next season should we win it in 2 weeks time.

PHB

The problem with this is that if you make a ruling that the holders should get into the CL next year automatically, what if Milan win it?
Should then the 5th place team in Italy get the spot?

Ardent

PHB wrote:

The problem with this is that if you make a ruling that the holders should get into the CL next year automatically, what if Milan win it?
Should then the 5th place team in Italy get the spot?

Automatic entry only if you are holders and you finish outside the qualifying positions of your domestc league.

Ardent

Good news if true:

The Mirror
9 May 2005
EXCLUSIVE: GERRARD'S £100K A WEEK
By David Maddock

STEVEN Gerrard will offer Liverpool the perfect Champions League boost by agreeing a new £5m-a-year contract before the May 25 final.

The midfielder has already suggested he will stay at Anfield beyond the summer after being impressed by the progress made under new boss Rafael Benitez this season. And now he will back up his bold words with decisive action when his agent meets chief executive Rick Parry to put in motion the process that will see him sign a new four-year deal worth £80,000 a week, rising to £100,000.

It was the perfect lift for Liverpool who saw their conventional route into the Champions League closed. Their 3-1 defeat at Arsenal means they cannot catch Everton for fourth place.

While the blue half of Merseyside was celebrating what is a miraculous achievement, the red half was offered some news that will act as a distinct consolation, in Gerrard’s decision.


And last night there was further news behind the scenes at UEFA that will also offer massive cheer to the Anfield faithful, after sources suggested they WILL be given a place in the Champions League next season – if they win this month’s final.

Europe’s governing body has indicated they will talk seriously about the possibility of allowing Liverpool in as a fifth English team when they meet for their Executive Committee meeting in Manchester on June 18 and 19.

It is understood massive pressure from the Champions League sponsorship partners, and also from television companies, who pump multi-millions into UEFA’s coffers, has swung a decision in Liverpool’s favour.

The executive board will take the decision if Liverpool beat Milan in Istanbul to place them as champions of Europe as the No.1 seed in next season’s competition, with automatic entry into the group stages.

And that would mean Arsenal, Manchester United and Everton would all play in the qualifying rounds.

Guy:Incognito

Liverpool winning the competition could help to preserve the fact that England have 4 CL places. I doubt that 5 years of a couple of English teams getting to the QF will keep the 4 places. I'm not being bitter but I dont think Everton have a hope in hell of getting out of a CL group (should they get through the qualifiers) next season. 3 or 4 seaons of English teamsnot winning it or getting far could see the loss of a place.

Jivin Turkey

Can people not see and understand that if Liverpool were to win it and not be able to defend it, it would be the first time ever in the European Cups history that the holders didnt defend the trophy?

Is that not precedent enough?

I have no doubt and Id be prepared to bet with anyone that if Liverpool do win the trophy the correct decision will be made and they will be in the CL next year.

uberwolf

It is understood massive pressure from the Champions League sponsorship partners, and also from television companies, who pump multi-millions into UEFA’s coffers, has swung a decision in Liverpool’s favour.

Ironic. Money was the reason the PL boyos voted against Liverpools qualification on the FA board. Now money will see them reinstated. :rolleyes:

yop

You can be damn sure UEFA would have wanted Madrid in the competition as well at the time in question and I hope they'd want the holders next season should we win it in 2 weeks time.

I am not going to keep goin on about it, but why would having Madrid or Liverpool in the CL help the competition?
Why would UEFA want Madrid in the competition, it was the Spanish FA who wanted them in it, not UEFA, I am sure most would not care, apart from Madrid fans & the Spanish FA, if Madrid were not in the competition.

At the end of the day, there is no example out there where UEFA have ever made an exception and allowed the holders to re-enter the CL if they have not qualified through their domestic league.

The fact remains the holder has ALWAYS defended the title.

That is true because bar Madrid all the CL winners have actully qualified through their league position, but since the English FA are not willing to change their ruling, then UEFA should not change their stance.