did the dominion win the war after all?!

magick

now i maybe mistaken but in the ds9 episode "favour the bold" the female shapeshifter said getting odo back to the great link would be far more important than the entire alpha quadrant. So in a way, did the Dominion actually achieve its objections?!

Nietzschean

magick wrote:

now i maybe mistaken but in the ds9 episode "favour the bold" the female shapeshifter said getting odo back to the great link would be far more important than the entire alpha quadrant. So in a way, did the Dominion actually achieve its objections?!

no, i believe she was referring to the fact that Odo would cure the great link thus meaning the continuation of their existance was far more important than the alpha quadrant. There is nothing to stop them creating a new army and invading the alpha quadrant again, their production rates were higher than the combined of the foe's, so given enough time they could do it...

_Kaiser_

Except that Sisko and the Prophets would be unlikely to let such a fleet through the wormhole

bizmark

Federation would beat them again anyways

User45701

when the female shapeshifter said getting odo back to the great linmk was more important than the alphs quadrent that was about 5 or 6 days after she got in fected she had no clue the diesse existed so Yes you are right since odo returned the dominion achived there objectives well spotted i never thought of it that way

Nietzschean

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Except that Sisko and the Prophets would be unlikely to let such a fleet through the wormhole

can't they just go at warp? sure its slower but when yer dealing with clones n stuff, ye could bring a massive army...

Grimlock

Well the Dominion did not win the war because they got beaten to a plup.
To the dominion Odo was more important than the alpha quadrant, I believe that was meant before the illness and was nothing to do with Odo's cure.

Does the fact that Odo came back mean that they've won the war? No, they may have recieved a gift more important to them than winning but they did not win.
As for the wormhole, ships cannot travel in lightspeed through the worm hole and I doubt sisko would allow the federation to be attacked againn through the wormhole.

Does anyone else think that DS9 was the best Star Trek show, ?I think the characters esp the auxillary characters where the best and I loved the long story arches, you can watch it again and again, which is unfortunately not true for Voyager.

Ro: maaan!

He meant just warp through regular space. Would take 50 years or so. I'd say the Federation would be ready by then though.

I think they really wanted both Odo to return and to win the war. They didn't meet Odo until after the war had started (kinda). They were holding out hope that Odo would still join them even if they won the war. I think all that line meant was that if they had to they'd sacrifice the war to get Odo back. I'm sure they're still quite pissed off about losing the war. After all they sent a hundred Changlings away. If they're gonna give up a quadrant for each one.... Well... do the math. They'd run out pretty fast.

magick

Does anyone else think that DS9 was the best Star Trek show, ?I think the characters esp the auxillary characters where the best and I loved the long story arches, you can watch it again and again, which is unfortunately not true for Voyager.

yup completely, agree, i can watch it over and over unlike some of the other st shows, i think it was by far the darkest of the st shows, very true for the last 2 seasons.

as for voyger janeway completely killed the image of the borg as unstoppable and well fairhaven episodes....no comment , now lets all get drunk irish dance and fight!

bizmark

magick wrote:

now lets all get drunk irish dance and fight!

Sounds like great fun!

Ro: maaan!

Agree that DS9 was the best by far. But I think Voyager was much better than a lot of people make it out to be. There were some terrible episodes, but there were equally bad ones in TNG. And Voyager had some of the very best episodes imo. While DS9 is better for continous story-line, Voyager had better individual stories.

crimsonfire

Grimlock wrote:

Does anyone else think that DS9 was the best Star Trek show, ?I think the characters esp the auxillary characters where the best and I loved the long story arches, you can watch it again and again, which is unfortunately not true for Voyager.

I think your spot on there. Me and my mate have heated (sometimes violent) debates about this. He's more of a voyager man. I think the dominion war gave it the ultimate form of continuity you can get in a star trek series. The war affected the entire federation so it kinda unified the whole trek universe. They've mentioned the war in STV and one of the trek movies (insurrection or nemisis, not quite sure)

User45701

Ds9 was brillent and its high on my list to buy on DVDs i wouldent download it cause it something i want to own why download 10+ gigs if im gona buy it someday
. voyager i couldent see myself picking up the dvds unless they where seconds hand or i had lots of money
TOS TNG ENT the same as voy

So ye DS9 was probbly my faverate i voted for it in the poll at the top of the star trek forum neway
All series have had amaaznign single episodes including DS9 but overall DS9 was better because of the 7 year story

Grimlock

Ro: maaan! wrote:

Agree that DS9 was the best by far. But I think Voyager was much better than a lot of people make it out to be. There were some terrible episodes, but there were equally bad ones in TNG. And Voyager had some of the very best episodes imo. While DS9 is better for continous story-line, Voyager had better individual stories.

I'm not saying Voyager was bad, I loved it and I whole heartedly agree that TNG had some woeful episdoes also, Shades od Grey(i think was the name) remains the only star trek episode that I could never finish watching. And as you say Voyager also had some weak episodes, but I watched it through the first time side by side with DS9 and I could not choose both shows; they both peaked at the same time, ie:season 6 & 7 of DS9 and season 3(last half) 4 & 5 of Voy however they really ran out of ideas for season 6 and 7 of Voyager, it made 7 seasons but kinda limped across the finish line.
I think Voyager was great but had the potential to be so much more, they never developed the auxillary characters (even when they had a huge opertunity with the equinox line) and as a result the stories began to feel repetitive and thin as the series came to a climax (I mean how many sti's did that slut Harry Kim actually get?)

What I'm trying to say is I loved DS9 and Voyager but I've got the entire series of DS9 on DVD but I just can't see myself buying Voyager in the near future, I'm just not as entused about watching it again.

</rabble>

BlitzKrieg

DS9 was the most developed of all the star treks. Details carried on from one episode to the next.

I think the best aspect of this is the Alamo holodeck program bashir and O brian played. It was for almost 2 seasons a irrelevent side joke for the two characters and then BANG in the last episode it all comes together when O brian leaves. Amazing stuff.

I remember when it first started one of the complaints by fans was that it wasnt star trek because they didnt go anywhere. I thought that was the fault with the other star treks. Amazing things happen each episode but in the next episode they would not only have the ship fully repaired but also at the other end of the galaxy.

DS9 in its first 2 seasons suffered the same problem but when the Maquis were added and later the klingon and dominion war, storylines started to lap over into each other.

By season six this was perfected when they had the series of episodes where the station was under Gul Du kat.


secondly, the series dropped the premis that so and so is said species therefore they act said way. A ferengi joins starfleet, cardassians and bajorins come in all different manners. Gul dukat was the single greatest star trek villian because he developed along with sisko. I remember that he was not a bad guy in season 2,3 and 4 but in fact worked with sisko numerous times. In season 6 he went crazy and so on. Amazing character, and a great loss to kill him off. (though we could revisit the star trek 2 storyline and bring both him and sisko back?)

Justice

bringing this back on to topic (im not prepared for a debate on the merits of the different series)

i disagree with magics assessment that the dominion won the war (or atleast achieved their goals).

1. odo is one of the hundred. hense his homecoming is totally unrelated to the war for the alpha quadrent,

2. the dominions objective was to bring order to the alpha Q. in their worldview , anything not controled by them is a threat (mistrust of solids ect).

it should be also noted that the dominion have never surrendered before, the only reason the female shapeshifter did so was becuase odo could cure the great link,

odo agreed to return to their homeworld for 2 reasons
1. Cure the great link becuase the female shapeshifter couldnt return.
2. Teach shapeshifters to respect and trust solids.

i believe the females Shapeshifters remark was made in the context that a founders life was more important than anything related to solids(they are gods after all )

User45701

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=161858 use that for star trek series discussion if u dont want it here thats why i made it

I think a great story line to follow would be a new statr trek series in the future not that far about 5-15 years after nemesis there could be a sort of cold war going on between the dominion and the sollids and a long story arc that could play through all seasons

Grimlock

*apologies for taking the thread off topic.

But to reiterate, nope I disagree with magick

ilkhanid

"warp through regular space." The Dominion is 70 000 light years from DS9. t one point when they try to destroy the wormhole Cisko says to Vorta "Don't expect any reinforcements for about seventy years"

DenMan

It depends on how you look at things. The Founders exist as a single entity (depending on you look at it). The Dominion had a strategy to impose order on a chaotic Alpha Quadrant. Returning Odo to the Great Link was always a long term plan for them. It is a karma effect. Odo being returned to them will allow them to be more open minded and less distrustful of Solids (through Odo's own life experiences)

Slice

I thought the concept of the Dominion as the main enemy in DS9 was great. But the whole idea of the Dominion war taking place in the Alpha Quadrant I thought was really dubious and hard to believe. I nearly choked while watching that episode when Gul Dukat went from being an outside, disgraced nobody in Cardassia to leading what was meant to be this mighty, if dysfunctional empire, into an alliance with the Dominion. It was so far fetched and unlikely that any wow factor was completely lost.

I loved the Dominion when they were this dark and unknown figure lurking in the Gamma Quadrant. I liked them when you only saw their might expressed in small ways such as that episode where Bashir tries to cure a race that had been infected by the Dominion or when Bashir and O'Brien are trapped on a planet's surface with the Jem Hadar to find that they're all motivated by an addiction to some class-A drug the Dominion feed them with.

It would have been much more plausible to see a war that mostly takes place in the Gamma Quadrant arising from the Federation exploring and making inroads into that area of space and getting bogged down by a hostile Dominion in a war that eventually threatens to spill through the wormhole. Because that sort of war would have been consistent with the whole starfleet ideal of exploring space and the war would be a way of seeing it go horribly wrong for the Federation. Instead, the Dominion were given characteristics lifted from the Borg of wanting to take over the Alpha Quadrant but unlike the Dominion this characteristic in the Borg was consistent with their ideology of "assimilate everything" so when applied to the Dominion it didn't really sit very well. Can anyone familiar with DS9 explain to me how or why the Dominion went on this massive rampage across the Alpha Quadrant to begin with? I know from memory of some episodes that the Founders said the Federation were a threat but, before we encountered the Dominion in DS9, we were never really given much of a sense that the Gamma Quandrant was being overrun with starfleet ships exploring this new area of space. Up to season three there weren't that many episodes that took place on the other side of the wormhole and all the ones that did only featured runabouts.

And don't get me started on how all these old school aliens (the Klingons and Romulans) were dusted down and called back into action for the Dominion war. If I remember correctly for the first three seasons of DS9 Klingons barely featured at all and the Romulans made no appearances whatsoever. Until season four and five I was of the impression that DS9 was weeks away from Earth and as far away from the Klingon and Romulan neutral zones as it was possible to get in Federation space.

ilkhanid

It's no problem to imagine the rationale that led to the Dominion going on a rampage in the Alpha quadrant. We already know that the Dominion is an expansionist power. Suddenly the Dominion finds that alien species are able to arrive in space very close to Dominion territories without any warning whatsoever. There have been several Federation expeditions to the Gamma quadrant,not just ones from Deep Space 9 and there have been several from other species.This is a kind of threat that they have probably not felt in decades if not hundreds of years. The Dominion has a kind of "Monroe Doctrine" for the Gamma quadrant, they regard any interference in space close to them as a threat, and now they were faced with the relative proximity of several powerful states, so it's no surprise that the Founders decide to remove this threat once and for all.