Good to see Ferrari struggle.

Dcully

Yep i for one am delighted to see Ferrari and in particular the brilliant but arrogant Shumacher struggle.
At last the other teams have got their act together and are actually challenging Ferrari.
Its bad for Ferrari fans but great for F1,Schumi won atleast 3 of his 7 titles mostly because the other teams were simply not at the races.
Renault,Toyota,McLaren are really putting it up to them with williams and Bar in the mix also.
Can only be good for the sport.

muckwarrior

^100% agree.
Is schumacher the best driver in F1? Maybe.
Is schumacher the most over-rated driver in the world? DEFINATELY!

Doper Than U

Disagree. It's good to see other teams have upped their game. About time too. No-one wants to see a sport where the top competitors have to lower their game in order for the others to catch up. Pathetic. It's great to see some good racing now that Renault and Mclaren have made such good improvements. Ferrari will improve during the season too, I hope we get to see more Schumi vs Alonso and Schumi vs Raikkonen action throughout the year. I agree that it's disappointing to see Ferrari walk all over the other teams every bloody "race" though, but it's hardly Ferrari's fault. They were the only ones doing their jobs properly.

*I'm a Renault fan myself... not a Ferrari one*

Töpher

Doper Than U is right, but it doesn't take away from how good it is to see! So far this season Ferrari haven't been doing the right job!

Dcully

Never said it was Ferraris fault that others couldnt cut it.
Obviously thats the other teams fault,it goes without saying.
As i said they were at the races the others were not simple as that.
Maybe i should have phrased this thread "good to see other teams on the case",but then id be hiding the fact im delighted Ferrari are crap right now
anything that has a fiat badge on it i cant stand
I gotta admit though they and MS have been awesome these past few years.

muckwarrior

I have no sympathy for Ferrari. Yes they've been the team to beat for the last few years, but why the hell wouldn't they be when everything is stacked in their favour. I mean the other teams have to pay them money every year, they've basically got their own private tyre manufacturer, they don't conform to testing limits and whenever they exploit a grey area of the rules a blind eye is turned.

I hope the GPWC goes ahead and Ferrari are left on their feckin own! It's no less than they deserve as they obviously don't want to play by the same rules as everyone else.

steviec

muckwarrior wrote:

I have no sympathy for Ferrari. Yes they've been the team to beat for the last few years, but why the hell wouldn't they be when everything is stacked in their favour. I mean the other teams have to pay them money every year, they've basically got their own private tyre manufacturer, they don't conform to testing limits and whenever they exploit a grey area of the rules a blind eye is turned.

I hope the GPWC goes ahead and Ferrari are left on their feckin own! It's no less than they deserve as they obviously don't want to play by the same rules as everyone else.

It really annoys me when just because a team is successful people feel the need to put them down at every opportunity. What top team hasn't tried to take advantage of grey areas in the rules in the last few years? BAR have just gotten bitten for trying to exploit a very black and white area of the rules too... I can't think of anything specifically that Ferrari have done that was so terrible. They get vilified for team orders when other teams have done the same over the years (McLaren in the very first race of the season in 98 or 99 comes to mind)

'Own Personal Tyre Manufacturer'? That's meant to be a joke right? It's only a few years ago that Ferrari were with Goodyear and their rivals were with Bridgestone. Then, after everyone had moved to Bridgestone, Michelin arrived and a lot of teams jumped ship, and if anything it's been to Ferrari's huge disadvantage that they've stayed with Bridgestone instead of moving to Michelin like their rivals had. That's pretty plain to see for anyone I would have thought.

As for ignoring testing limits, Ferrari haven't broken any rules. The other teams just decided to make up their own rules regarding this, and Ferrari never agreed to anything. It's only natural when one team is dominant that everyone else tries to gang up on them and make changes to upset the balance, and it's only natural for the top team to resist such changes, which they've done. What Ferrari have had to put up with though is numerous rule changes from the FIA that had the express intention of making things 'more exciting', ie. less in Ferrari's favour, and Ferrari have obeyed these rules and dealt with them.

Back on original topic though, it has been good to see a change this season. Have been impressed with Renault and especially Toyota. McLaren seem to be getting their act together, and when Ferrari get up to speed(which they showed at Imola they're capable of) it should make up for some very interesting races as the season continues. It'd be nice to see Williams up there too, Marc Webber is one of my favourite drivers and I was looking forward to seeing him in a top team but so far it's been a little disappointing.

Curran

If it werent for all the Rule changes - with regard to the cars - not the qualifying rule or tyre rule changes - Ferrari would still be STREAKS ahead of the other teams!

Every year they seem to change the rules for the cars - WHY?

Answer to give the other teams a chance!

When havign to develop something brand new and totally different for the cars its obivous that even the best are going to make a mistake!
This year Ferrari havent adjusted to the changes - but by later on in the season they will have and you'll see them back on top!

Fair play to Renault - doin a super job! But had it not been for the changes they wouldnt have a chance!

Same with teams bit*hing about Ferrari's testing - they know Ferrari will catch them and pass them with their technical and areodynamical improvements!

v10

I'd have to agree with steviec on this one ...

muckwarrior wrote:

..they've basically got their own private tyre manufacturer..

What a crock of $hite! this is Ferrari's biggest disadvantage this year (and Yesterday was the proof).
I honesly believe that if Ferrari were on Michelin right now, they would be far more competitive.

muckwarrior wrote:

..they don't conform to testing limits ..

There are no testing limits .. just an agreement between nine teams to limit testing. Ferrari simply didn't agree. The reason the don't agree is back to tyres. There are seven teams (at least 3 or 4 top teams) using Michelins and 3 (only 1 top team) using Bridgestone. Therefore Michelin get far more testing done than Bridgestone even with the testing restrictions they've chosen to comply with. And tyre testing is probably the most important part of testing there is. No other part of the car makes up so much difference on the track.

Few things I don't like about the current format are
1: Qualifying at the moment is crap. Back to the original 12 Lap style.
2: Points should also be back to old style 10 - 6 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1. Imagine if Schmuacher or Kimi won every race for the rest of the season (14 wins) and Alonso still won the championship with 3 wins. That would be just silly.
3: 1 set of Tyres rule / 1 engine for 2 races rule : All these do is encourage drivers to take it easy ... wheres the sense in that. Cost cutting. Why ? This is Formula 1. If you can't afford it, quit.

Curran

Couldnt agree with you more V10

Big pat on the back and a pint is what you deserve for telling it like it is!

12 Lap Qualifying - Rules out small mistakes and poxy jamy pole positions for getting out before the rain-drivers getting screwed for finisihing first in last race and get out last and cant get a good time in! Person finishing near back end of last race get up front for next race - stupid

Back to the old points syste - More rewarding for a 1st place - drivers arent fighting for first cos they say to themselves i'll take the 2pt loss cos its not that much!

Surely the 1 set of tyres rule is unsafe - with serious lack of grip safety goes out the window - and the FIA are trying to make it Ultra safe!
BRING BACK THE SLICKS I SAY !!!!

Engine rule - have drivers that arent in the points retiring to use new engines in the next race!

Kersh

Im not a fan of schuey at all, cause of the cheating allegations that arose in 1994. And his cynical take out of Hill, and the unsuccessful one on JV, however, he is a joy to watch on pure talent, commitment etc, but to say he is arrogant and mean it in a bad way to miss the point.... all the other drivers out there are arrogant too. Most race drivers are, you have to be, else you get no where in a sport full of head games/psychological battles etc.