The Liverpool Away Record Thread

uberwolf · 09-05-2005 10:14am #1

Well it's been decided, Uefa Cup next season.

I've struggled to find a table that compares home to away record, but afaik Sunday was their 11th away loss of the season if not their 12th. Which is only better than 2 relegation bound teams. So that is the factor to point at.

What went wrong? Miracle worker that he is had Benetiz simply no idea how to play away from home in the Premiership? Cos the core players were the same so it was hardly them.

Is it a question of two up front? Or at least having one real striker in the team? Or is there simply a change in approach required.

For my money Baros is playing like a player who knows he's leaving, and a fit Morientes will terrorise defences next season. Ever hopeful ?

spockety · 09-05-2005 10:16am

Liverpool actually also had a worse home record than Everton this season.

I am a Liverpool fan, and it hurts, but it's true.

www.premierleague.com has got the table split by home and away

TheMonster · 09-05-2005 10:17am

Can't be the manager as he is the best manager in the PL :rolleyes:

actually only Soton have lost more games away :eek:

Not sure what way this cut and paste will work out
Team P W D L F A W D L F A GD PTS
1 Chelsea 36 14 5 0 35 6 14 2 1 33 7 55 91
2 Arsenal 36 12 5 1 47 19 12 3 3 32 15 45 80
3 Man Utd 36 12 6 0 30 9 9 5 4 25 13 33 74
4 Everton 36 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 6 19 21 7 61
5 Liverpool 37 11 4 3 29 14 5 3 11 21 26 10 55
6 Bolton 37 8 5 5 22 16 7 5 7 24 26 4 55
7 Middlesbrough 37 9 6 4 29 19 5 6 7 23 26 7 54
8 Man City 37 8 5 5 23 13 5 7 7 23 25 8 51
9 Tottenham 37 9 4 5 36 22 5 5 9 11 19 6 51
10 Aston Villa 37 8 6 5 26 17 4 5 9 18 33 -6 47
11 Charlton 37 8 3 7 27 27 4 6 9 13 29 -16 45
12 Newcastle 37 7 6 5 24 24 3 7 9 22 32 -10 43
13 Birmingham 37 7 6 5 22 14 3 6 10 16 31 -7 42
14 Blackburn 37 5 8 6 21 22 4 6 8 11 21 -11 41
15 Fulham 37 7 4 7 23 26 4 4 11 23 34 -14 41
16 Portsmouth 37 8 4 7 30 26 2 5 11 13 31 -14 39
17 Norwich 37 7 5 7 29 32 0 7 11 13 39 -29 33
18 Southampton 37 5 9 4 29 28 1 5 13 15 36 -20 32
19 Crystal Palace 37 6 5 8 21 19 1 6 11 18 41 -21 32
20 West Brom 37 4 8 6 15 24 1 8 10 19 37 -27 31

jesus_thats_gre · 09-05-2005 10:31am

The majority of those losses came after CL matches didn't they..

This thread has made realise how bad of a season Liverpool have had yet we will still likely finish 5th.

While there is no doubting Everton took a step up this season, they were only slightly better than a very very sorry bunch.

Pigman II · 09-05-2005 10:36am

Numerous factors
1) Liverpool don't play like they actually give a damn away. They're not 'up' for these games or at least thats how I read from the body lingo of some of the players. When you're at home you have to 'put on a show' so to speak but away you can effectively just run the clock down for 90 mins and hope you come away with 0-0 or a 1-0 win if the gods are smiling on you.
2) They actually play guys like Pelligrino in PL away games
3) Unlike in the CL, PL teams (even the worst ones) actually 'have a go' at you. In recent weeks Crystal Palace and ManCity made more commited assualts at Liverpool than either Chelsea or Juve did. I put this down to fear brought on by the away goal rule.

Whatever it is tho it isn't bad luck that Liverpool are losing all these away games. From the ones that I've seen they've usually deserved every bloody nose they get.

The Muppet · 09-05-2005 10:44am

My Theory on LIverpools poor performances in the league is that they are not tough enough to battle out results against the more physical premiership sides. You dont get the time and space on the ball in England that you do in Europe, It remains to be seen if the European players in the Liverpool squad can toughen up and adapt to the english game.

theCzar · 09-05-2005 10:46am

interestingly, Liverpool came 4th last year with only 60pts, assuming you beat Villa at home, you'll have 58pts which would have been good enough last season as well, and everybody would have said "great season, no complaints"

incidently, the year before that, Everton came 7th, and missed europe with 59 pts, which would have got 4th last year and this year.

facts from http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/02-03/premtable.asp

uberwolf · 09-05-2005 10:47am

well I sat through every sorry minute of their loss to Crystal Palace for example. And they never looked like getting anything out of it. Other than the mockery Pellegrino - they had welsh, potter, le tallec on. I'd a thought the youth, fringe players would play with desire and passion - not least to impress the manager. But even they came out of that game scarecly haven broken a sweat.

p.pete · 09-05-2005 11:03am

theCzar wrote:

interestingly, Liverpool came 4th last year with only 60pts, assuming you beat Villa at home, you'll have 58pts which would have been good enough last season as well, and everybody would have said "great season, no complaints"

incidently, the year before that, Everton came 7th, and missed europe with 59 pts, which would have got 4th last year and this year.

facts from http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/02-03/premtable.asp

Interesting facts - kind of why GH was moaning about finishing 2nd a few seasons ago - with the point tally they would have won the league the previous season.

Also looking at those stats it's no real achievement that Everton finished 4th - they've just been the best of a bad bunch. But well done to them regardless, I hope they do well from the CL.

uberwolf · 09-05-2005 11:07am

Benetiz wrote:

Rafael Benitez reflected on his side's failure to break into the top four this season and admitted: "Our away form has cost us."

"If you look back over the season then you can see we have lost too many games away from home and lost points we maybe should have won," said Benitez.

"It's disappointing that we can't finish fourth now but we have to analyse the season and look at where we can improve for next year.

his comments after yesterday. What is that analysis going come up with?

Guy:Incognito · 09-05-2005 12:42pm

The game against palace was the prime example why benitez doesnt knows whats happening in thw PL. He looks around as if to say "but they can't kick us" & "this isn't the way football is supposed to be". He has to cop on that they have to get physical with these teams. The players themselves should be doing it aswell. The young lads that were playing (potter, Welsh, le tallec) were not going to feature much in the rest of the games so should have been willing to get stuck in and maybe take a card, but the desire just wasnt there. Gerard wasnt up for the game either, he played like a foreigner thats not used to it either.

Hyypia needs to go and replaced with a tough english centre half, maybe King. Looks like Gerard is staying but if he's not going to up this seasons performance by at least 50% he should be kicked through the door aswell. For gods sake, have Baros put down and do everyone a favour. I'd almost feel huilty about inflicting him on anyone else. Liverpool are better than Everton but have done their best to disprove that.

At the end of the day there's too many players with long hair and alice bands and no battlers.

PHB · 09-05-2005 12:56pm

Liverpool's squad isn't good enough to compete on four fronts, that simlpe.

They have an ok squad in the centre of midfield, but their wingers leave much to be desired, with Riise a left back their left winger this year.

Up front they have nothing really for the majority of the season, but now towards the end they have a decent choice I guess.
They don't have the squad to compete at this level, so a good few summer signings will be needed

~Rebel~ · 09-05-2005 2:56pm

Just wondering, when was the last time a liverpool striker scored?? it could have been baros against leverkusen! that was his last anyway. I think morientes may have sneaked one at some point a few weeks ago too but out of 3 allegedly world class strikers thats fcuking atrocious! (we'll forgive cisse tho as was missing for so long and is actually showing desire)

What I'd actually like to see is them getting in someone like joey barton specially for those dirty crystal palace matches, someone to take a hold on the game and say "We're Liverpool - Take This!". He's also a mate of gerrards..

p.pete · 09-05-2005 3:14pm

Love the sig ~Rebel~ - "Liverpool Fan - 4th is the new 1st anyway.. ", what does that make 5th or 6th???

jesus_thats_gre · 09-05-2005 3:21pm

p.pete wrote:

what does that make 5th or 6th???

Chavtastic?

mayordenis · 09-05-2005 3:28pm

~Rebel~ wrote:

Just wondering, when was the last time a liverpool striker scored?? it could have been baros against leverkusen! that was his last anyway. I think morientes may have sneaked one at some point a few weeks ago

i could well be wrong but i think it was morientes against portsmouth.

uberwolf · 09-05-2005 4:55pm

~Rebel~ wrote:

What I'd actually like to see is them getting in someone like joey barton specially for those dirty crystal palace matches, someone to take a hold on the game and say "We're Liverpool - Take This!". He's also a mate of gerrards..

is that a bit simplistic? the core of the team have remained from previous years, they should be well adapted to the british game if nothing else.
And several of those games included youth players who responded well to CL games (warnock, welsh, potter) who should have little difficulty motivating themselves for Crstal Palace etc, even with CL semi's around the corner.

The goals scored is a problem though.

PiE · 09-05-2005 4:59pm

so a good few summer signings will be needed

Kewell, Baros out. Vincente, Joaquin in. Then a defender or two up to Carragher's standard. Poifect.

PHB · 09-05-2005 5:32pm

Vicente and Joaquin will got for 20 - 30 mill each

theCzar · 09-05-2005 5:33pm

PiE wrote:

Kewell, Baros out. Vincente, Joaquin in. Then a defender or two up to Carragher's standard. Poifect.

No CL could well push Joaquin away... good luck!

Jivin Turkey · 09-05-2005 5:40pm

theCzar wrote:

No CL could well push Joaquin away... good luck!

It hasn't seemed to be a problem for him so far.

You would also be very naive to think Liverpool have no chance of being in the draw for next seasons CL. And even if they weren't, one season of not being in it isn't going to deter a young player who is obviously signing for the long haul.

PiE · 09-05-2005 5:43pm

PHB wrote:

Vicente and Joaquin will got for 20 - 30 mill each

Been rumblings of a swap deal involving Baros for Vincente. Joaquin would be worth anything up to 20m IMO, more if Liverpool could afford it, which they can't really... so yea, 20m

CL is in the bag and UEFA will see sense by allowing the holders to defend their poxy title next season, so it's aaaall good.

theCzar · 09-05-2005 5:45pm

Jivin Turkey wrote:

You would also be very naive to think Liverpool have no chance of being in the draw for next seasons CL.

i didn't say they have no chance though did I? i even wished you luck in your endeavours...

He'll have his pick of clubs, i don't see why he would go for Liverpool over the others CL not withstanding, and if Liverpool don't CL, then that may help him choose...

uberwolf · 09-05-2005 5:46pm

in terms of vicente - bannor reported Valencia being interested in baros. He'd prob do well there as well.

But yeah, the probable lack of CL next season is going to be a factor in attracting talent. I'd stick money on a great Uefa cup run which will make them a packet. They made more the year they won the Uefa than they did making the 1/4s of the CL.
But it ain't glamourous.

As regards the away record is looking abroad the solution though? Or will quality shine through. I cann't see Figo for example helping arrest that problem if he arrives

PHB · 09-05-2005 7:15pm

Vicente is worth way way more than Baros, way way more, and the deal was a Baros + cash thingy afaik.

Chucky the tree · 11-05-2005 8:22pm

PHB wrote:

Vicente is worth way way more than Baros, way way more, and the deal was a Baros + cash thingy afaik.

no, it was a straight swap i think.

uberwolf wrote:

But yeah, the probable lack of CL next season is going to be a factor in attracting talent.I'd stick money on a great Uefa cup run which will make them a packet. They made more the year they won the Uefa than they did making the 1/4s of the CL.

CL wont make a difference to a potential signing. YOu think a player would only pick a team in the CL? no offence to everton, but i cant see joaquin deciding on everton over liverpool since they are in the CL. Also the fact we got to the final will help.

Winning the UEFA cup makes more money then 1/4s of the CL? i would be very suprised if that was the case.

uberwolf · 11-05-2005 8:24pm

Chucky the tree wrote:

Winning the UEFA cup makes more money then 1/4s of the CL? i would be very suprised if that was the case.

I think it was mike65 said that at the time, I'll google

edit: they made 10mill extra from their UEFA cup run that year, cann't find details re: champs league

Chucky the tree · 11-05-2005 8:42pm

uberwolf wrote:

edit: they made 10mill extra from their UEFA cup run that year, cann't find details re: champs league

is that 10mil extra from UEFA cup run, or in general?

uberwolf · 11-05-2005 8:46pm

Chucky the tree wrote:

is that 10mil extra from UEFA cup run, or in general?

from uefa run alone, incl prize money, gates, tv, etc

http://www.squarefootball.net/article/article.asp?aid=1919

Chucky the tree · 11-05-2005 8:50pm

sure you get more then that from just tv revenue alone i think.

Ardent · 12-05-2005 10:38am

Stekelly wrote:

At the end of the day there's too many players with long hair and alice bands and no battlers.

Amen brother. That's our away form summed up in one sentence.

Rafa has hinted that the team will need to be shaken up in the summer and for me there's a big overhaul required: out with wasters such as Pellegringo, Nunez, Smicer, Traore, Kewell, Baros, Josemi, Diao, Diarra, Kirkland, Biscan and Dudek.

I also think Rafa underestimated the league in his first year. Next season he will be a lot more clued in I'm sure and who knows, he might sign a few English players in the summer as well as Spanish talent.

The Liverpool Away Record Thread

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