[Article] Coroner to re-examine 1976 murder

A Dub in Glasgo

Coroner to re-examine 1976 murder

08 May 2005 By Barry O'Kelly

The 29-year-old murder case of Seamus Ludlow is to be re-examined by a coroner in Dundalk, amid claims of an official cover-up on his death by loyalist paramilitaries.

The Co Louth coroner, Ronan Maguire, confirmed this weekend that he would hold a fresh inquest into the controversial killing following a campaign by Ludlow's family.

“I have been requested to do so by the Attorney General. There will be a preliminary hearing at the end of the month, in advance of a full inquest,” the coroner told The Sunday Business Post.

The victim's family believes that Ludlow died at the hands of two members of the British Army's Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) and the loyalist Red Hand Commandos in Co Down. The family's campaign, led by Kevin Ludlow, the only surviving brother of Seamus, and nephews Jimmy Sharkey and Michael Donegan, are seeking a public inquiry into his death and the alleged cover-up afterwards.

Ludlow, 47, a forestry worker from Thistlecross, Mountpleasant, Dundalk, Co Louth, was abducted and murdered by loyalists and British soldiers outside the town of Dundalk on the night of May 1,1976. He was seen thumbing a lift home from the pub at around midnight before he disappeared.

“At first, the Garda claimed to the family that Seamus had been murdered by the IRA because he was an informer,” said Jimmy Sharkey last week.

“That was the line they put out. It is now known that both the Garda and the RUC were aware that the killers were, in fact, loyalists.

“They knew that the killers included at least twolocally recruited members of the British Army.”

The Police Ombudsman in the North, Nuala O'Loan, has told the family that police had intelligence on the four-man gang within a year of the murder, according to Sharkey.

“The killers all came from the Comber and Newtownards areas of north Down.

“Information which would have identified these killers was suppressed for more than 20 years, allowing these men to remain free - and at liberty to kill again.

“The question is: why were these men being protected?

“Why were they above the law?” said Sharkey.

The Ludlow family was given just 45 minutes' notice before the original inquest in August 21, 1976.

“Kevin [the victim's brother] got a phone call, and he was working across the border and there was no way he could make it in time,” said Sharkey.

The current coroner, Ronan Maguire, who was not involved in the original hearing, said: “The family was not represented. The only evidence that was given was the medical report and the identification of the body.”

The evidence normally provided at inquests should include statements from eyewitnesses, family and friends and the Garda.

Maguire said that the family and the Garda would be represented at the preliminary hearing. “It will then be decided what evidence should be given at the full hearing,” he said.

Four loyalists were arrested by the RUC in February 1998.

They were all released without charge, pending a report being sent to the North's Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP).

In October 1999, the DPP ruled that none of the suspects would be charged with any offence, even though two of them had reportedly signed incriminating statements while in RUC custody.

“The chief investigator in the Ombudsman's office told us in the company of our solicitor that he was amazed that two of the people involved were not charged. There was very strong evidence against them,” said Sharkey.

One of the alleged killers, known as Mambo, was an informant for the British Army.

“The cover-up was inspired to protect this man and the two who were in the UDR,” said Sharkey.

“We want to know who gave the orders for the cover-up of the evidence and the smearing of the victim. Who was being protected, and why? And why was the Ludlow family excluded from the inquest?”

The most revealing statement on the affair to date is a letter to a campaign supporter, Jim Kane, in July 2000.

RUC superintendent RD McCausland wrote: “I am advised that information relative to the murder of Mr Ludlow was passed by the Royal Ulster Constabulary to An Garda Siochána in 1979.

“I am further advised after a request from the Garda in 1998, the RUC arrested and interviewed four persons in relation to the murder.

“All four persons were released pending a report to the Director of Public Prosecutions. On October 15, 1999, the DPP directed ‘No Prosecution'.

“I can inform you it is not force policy to comment on matters pertaining to ‘Agents'.

“Police reports to the DPP are confidential documents, as are forensic/ballistic reports.”

Sunday Business Post

Appalling case that has yet to be resolved. What appears here is a case of murder by British forces in a neighbouring country and the apparant cover-up by the security forces of both countries. A tip of the iceberg with repsect to the Dirty war that was waged in the North.

Now that all the elections are out of the way, I think it is now time for the British & Irish governments to walk the walk and agree to the Ludlow family request for a public inquiry into what exactly happened, who was responsible for the murder, the smears and the cover-up. The Barron report into the case should be published, Bertie has been reading it for 6 months.

Going on past experience, I would not hold my breath to see if the governments agree to the Ludlow family request.

Seamus Ludlow

Well at least, the AG is still acting on the matter.
The case rings a distant bell, though I cant say exactly that I'm aware of it.

ishmael whale

jman0 wrote:

When it comes to HMG murdering irish citizens within the Republic; expect heads to go into the sand, and the sound of silence.

Alternatively, expect more interest in a murder that happened earlier this year that raises issues of current concern, than in a murder that occured in 1976.

A Dub in Glasgo

ishmael whale wrote:

Alternatively, expect more interest in a murder that happened earlier this year that raises issues of current concern, than in a murder that occured in 1976.

What about the appalling vista of forces from a foreign power entering the Republic to murder a citizen and then both countries smear the man and cover up the murder and those cover ups continue to this day.

Nah, it is just not newsworthy.

hill16

Or the abduction and murder of a young woman by Loyalists a couple of months ago which has hardly being mentioned in the media.

jman0

ishmael whale wrote:

Alternatively, expect more interest in a murder that happened earlier this year that raises issues of current concern, than in a murder that occured in 1976.

Oh yeah? Did you ever hear the name Jean McConville?

cdebru

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What about the appalling vista of forces from a foreign power entering the Republic to murder a citizen and then both countries smear the man and cover up the murder and those cover ups continue to this day.

Nah, it is just not newsworthy.

yes surprisingly quite

seems the people concerned about the threat to our democracy dont have any problem with the armed forces of a foreign state murdering irish people in the republic

hardly surprising that they are not too concerned about irish people being killed by those same forces in the 6 counties


smearing the victim covering up the crime it just seems it is only a problem
if republicans are involved

ishmael whale

cdebru wrote:

seems the people concerned about the threat to our democracy dont have any problem with the armed forces of a foreign state murdering irish people in the republic

You can spin it any way you like, but at the end of the day the McCartney case raises matters of current concern. There may be many people seeking investigation of past injustices, but they don't have the same implications for the future.

There is no present threat posed to the Republic by armed forces of a foreign state. There is a clear threat arising from SF's continued involvement with the IRA. If other contributors want to equate SF's involvement with the current actions of loyalist gangs, that's fine by me but I'm not sure that's the point you are trying to make.

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

smearing the victim covering up the crime it just seems it is only a problem
if republicans are involved

It's not that at all.
News moves and as the years pass by, it gathers cobwebs unless it has a current personal interest.
Thats always been the way.

I can almost guarantee you that if a member of the DUP knifed someone to death in the morning and the search for justice panned out the same way as the McCartney case, it would make big news here.

In fact scrap the DUP, if it was anyone and the same thing happened and there was a campaign for justice, it would be news for many months.

As I see it, it's very much in SF's interest to get this resolved and head off any other potential muck before elections are held in the 26 counties as down here they dont have the luxury of sectarian divisions determining voting patterns and shielding them from unsavoury news items.

jman0

ishmael whale wrote:

There is no present threat posed to the Republic by armed forces of a foreign state. There is a clear threat arising from SF's continued involvement with the IRA. If other contributors want to equate SF's involvement with the current actions of loyalist gangs, that's fine by me but I'm not sure that's the point you are trying to make.

spin spin spin
my head is getting all dizzy.

ishmael whale

The bottom line is if you ask me am I happy about the Ludlow case or any other case being given attention, such as the fresh inquest proposed here, the answer is yes. I just don’t see the case having any implications other than providing his family with an official determination of the facts of the case, so frankly my interest in the outcome is purely historical.

Its not ‘spin’ to point out the logic of some contributors seems to be if Loyalists can kill people and get away with it, then so should Republicans. If they mean to say something else, then they need to say it more clearly than they have so far. Neither is it spin to point out that the McCartney case is of current relevance. That’s simply the situation.

cdebru

ishmael whale wrote:

The bottom line is if you ask me am I happy about the Ludlow case or any other case being given attention, such as the fresh inquest proposed here, the answer is yes. I just don’t see the case having any implications other than providing his family with an official determination of the facts of the case, so frankly my interest in the outcome is purely historical.

Its not ‘spin’ to point out the logic of some contributors seems to be if Loyalists can kill people and get away with it, then so should Republicans. If they mean to say something else, then they need to say it more clearly than they have so far. Neither is it spin to point out that the McCartney case is of current relevance. That’s simply the situation.

the ludlow case is more recent than the mc conville case which is brought up here on a regular basis
if another 30 year old case involving the IRA was raised gauranteed the usual suspects would have a thread opened with the obligatory cut and paste from the indo/sindo/examiner
they would all get on and preach about how it was further proof that you cant trust republicans they are physcotic thugs threat to democracy etc etc the peace process is dead and on and on

where is there concern for the victims of violence or a cover up when the offenders are not republican
it does not exist
saying that there is no threat from the british now is ridiculous if they did it then when it was in their interests and they are let away with it why would they not do it again when it would be in their interests now or some time in the future

ishmael whale

cdebru wrote:

the ludlow case is more recent than the mc conville case which is brought up here on a regular basis

The main significance of the McConville case is, as in the current case, the desire of the family to see an acknowledgement of injustice. For the rest of us its really just a reminder that the IRA campaign was not some glorious heroic struggle against oppression.

cdebru wrote:

where is there concern for the victims of violence or a cover up when the offenders are not republican it does not exist

That’s simply not true. As noted in the post linked below on the McCartney thread, the European Court of Human Rights has found against the British Government in several cases related to Northern Ireland. But I can’t think of any current case where, say, the family of a victim of Loyalist violence is complaining that the DUP are obstructing their search for justice. (And if the DUP did, yes that would be plain wrong too.)

The fact that only a handful of MEPs opposed the European Parliament’s recent motion on the McCartney case should give you cause for a reality check. Democrats from across Europe can look at that situation and recognise a pressing injustice that justifies their intervention. Is there any prospect that you will realise that you are the one who is labouring under a massive misconception of what is right? Or do you believe that SF is the only party on the planet with a monopoly of the truth?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2710673&postcount=5

cdebru

ishmael whale wrote:

The main significance of the McConville case is, as in the current case, the desire of the family to see an acknowledgement of injustice. For the rest of us its really just a reminder that the IRA campaign was not some glorious heroic struggle against oppression.



That’s simply not true. As noted in the post linked below on the McCartney thread, the European Court of Human Rights has found against the British Government in several cases related to Northern Ireland. But I can’t think of any current case where, say, the family of a victim of Loyalist violence is complaining that the DUP are obstructing their search for justice. (And if the DUP did, yes that would be plain wrong too.)

The fact that only a handful of MEPs opposed the European Parliament’s recent motion on the McCartney case should give you cause for a reality check. Democrats from across Europe can look at that situation and recognise a pressing injustice that justifies their intervention. Is there any prospect that you will realise that you are the one who is labouring under a massive misconception of what is right? Or do you believe that SF is the only party on the planet with a monopoly of the truth?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2710673&postcount=5

I dont know wether you deliberately misunderstood me
so i will try again

i was not refering to the EP i have no problem with them helping out the mccartney family i also hope it is a precedent that the EP will help out others seeking to rectify injustices by states corporations organisations etc

what i was refering to is the deafening silence from the anti republican brigade
no cutting and pasting articles from the indo no tirades against the british and irish governments or the gardai and PSNI no questions as to how we as to how we are supposed to trust these people when they could allow the murder of one of their own citizens /citizen of a neighbouring country
and cover up the murder by smearing the victim

the simple fact is that issues like this dont sit with their view of the northern conflict where the IRA was the agressor and and tyrant

so they just ignore it

if you are looking for a case where justice is beliberately being denied this is an example the dublin and monaghan bombings would be another.

dont get me wrong iam not saying that these injustices exist therefore it is ok others exist what i'am saying is why is there only interest in injustices carried out by republicans


i dont have any misconception of what is right nor do i believe that anyone has a monoply on right
I also dont believe that Sinn fein or the IRA has a monoply on wrong but to judge by some of the posters here on boards that is exactly what they think

ishmael whale

On the EP's position we can happily agree - and I've posted up on the other thread a quote from the President of the European Parliament saying they are available as a platform to assist in any injustice.

cdebru wrote:

what i was refering to is the deafening silence from the anti republican brigade ... no questions as to how we as to how we are supposed to trust these people when they could allow the murder of one of their own citizens /citizen of a neighbouring country and cover up the murder by smearing the victim

I can only give you my own perception. While not canonising the Courts or the Garda, I accept the legitimacy of our justice system and its ability to discover its own faults. If its proposed to rehold the inquest in this case I'm willing to let the process reveal if a more detailed investigation is needed. I don't see a need to rail against the system in the Republic because we are one of that select group of countries where the Government derives its legitimacy from a free vote of the people.

cdebru wrote:

the simple fact is that issues like this dont sit with their view of the northern conflict where the IRA was the agressor and and tyrant

I don't actually see these injustices as justifying the IRA campaign, although they do provide a political context that can't be ignored. However, most of us see the IRA as something that made a bad situation worse. I'm not looking for you to agree with this point - just to accept that its my perspective.

cdebru wrote:

dont get me wrong iam not saying that these injustices exist therefore it is ok others exist what i'am saying is why is there only interest in injustices carried out by republicans

I'm not sure its true that there is only interest in republican created injustices. The IRA situation is simply of more current interest, particularly because of the SF connection. Loyalist paramilitaries are total knackers, but they simply don't have the same political importance.

For myself, I simply see SF as a threat to democracy. I think the more we vote for them, the more we're voting our democracy out of existence. I don't really see Loyalist paramilitaries having any more impact on the greater scheme of things than the Westies. That's why I follow IRA related news a lot closer.

mycroft

jman0 wrote:

Oh yeah? Did you ever hear the name Jean McConville?

McConville is current because the a sitting MEP refused to condemn her murder as a crime a few months ago.

It's relevant because it demostrations just how little SFs mindset has moved on over the past ten years.

I dunno about pulling the thread, but you won't get much a peep out of some of these SF bashers on these boards.

Not really, I welcome, and think the investigation is important and valid, and necessary. And I wasn't aware of it till the OP mentioned it.

It's just the base irony of a group of posters who's party has an impressive degree of skeltons in the closet (or bodies in bogs) demanding justice and investigation into an unsolved murder.

When earlier this year an MEP from same party refused to condemn the ex judicuary killing of a woman, who is labelled a dirty tout, yet not a single piece of evidence has been provided to support this allegation.

I mean, it's pretty obvious don't you get it? We'd like this party at the very least, for the sake of the families of it's victims to do something more than just point in the vague direction of a bog and say "I think she's over there somewhere" and really move forward with a peace process, before we can listen to them spout this kind of garbage and not reel back from the rank stench of hyprocracy.

cdebru

ishmael whale wrote:

I can only give you my own perception. While not canonising the Courts or the Garda, I accept the legitimacy of our justice system and its ability to discover its own faults. If its proposed to rehold the inquest in this case I'm willing to let the process reveal if a more detailed investigation is needed. I don't see a need to rail against the system in the Republic because we are one of that select group of countries where the Government derives its legitimacy from a free vote of the people.

I think like most institutions the institutions of the state only admit to their faults when they are forced into it
they do not seek them out they usually have to be dragged kicking and screaming
a perfect example is the mcbraety case in donegal

ishmael whale wrote:

I don't actually see these injustices as justifying the IRA campaign, although they do provide a political context that can't be ignored. However, most of us see the IRA as something that made a bad situation worse. I'm not looking for you to agree with this point - just to accept that its my perspective.

its a view that you probably share with the majority of people in this island
I accept it as a legitimate point of view

ishmael whale wrote:

I'm not sure its true that there is only interest in republican created injustices. The IRA situation is simply of more current interest, particularly because of the SF connection. Loyalist paramilitaries are total knackers, but they simply don't have the same political importance.




For myself, I simply see SF as a threat to democracy. I think the more we vote for them, the more we're voting our democracy out of existence. I don't really see Loyalist paramilitaries having any more impact on the greater scheme of things than the Westies. That's why I follow IRA related news a lot closer.

I would not trust Sinn Fein or adams and co as far as i could throw them

I dont see them as a threat to democracy I think they have moved far from the position of 20 years ago and are firmly in the middle ground of Irish politics
they are not revolutionaries or even radicals

i think what is happening and what will happen to them is what happened to FF C na P the workers party etc
they might have all set out to change the system but they become part of the system and it changes them

Mighty_Mouse

You can spin it any way you like, but at the end of the day the McCartney case raises matters of current concern.

I see you havent even stopped to comment on the murder before jumping into republican-bashing mode

Mighty_Mouse

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

I see you havent even stopped to comment on the murder before jumping into republican-bashing mode

Mentioning the McCartney case is a valid answer to the question asked.
It is current, it's not that people are fickle in relation to these things, it just doesnt become newsworthy over the longer term unless theres a reason for it.

Like it or lump it ( and in your case it's lump it obviously being a Republican ) the standards required by most in the 26 counties does not include what is being currently talked about around the McCartney case.
Quite apart from the human aspect of it, SF should be making sure that the situation is resolved as soon as possible and not let it run to when elections are being held in the 26 counties.
Currently it looks like it is going to run and run.

I mean 5 months gone by now and it is known by all in republican and non republican circles and no ones handed themselves in with their hands up in the air.


Back in 1976, there was no Sky news, no local radio and just one RTE channel on either radio or TV and the vast majority of the country only had the one channel.
Couple that with news cameras on beaches digging for IRA victims in the recent here and now and you can see why theres a bigger problem for the perception of the Republican movement in the South over their wrongs compared to a 30 yr old incident where people in government in the here and now would have had little to do with whatever happened back then.

ishmael whale

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

I see you havent even stopped to comment on the murder before jumping into republican-bashing mode

My understanding of the point at issue is why cases of Loyalist violence typically seem to generate less discussion than cases of Republican violence.

Looking back over this thread I think I've been pretty open in explaining where I'm coming from, and I have to admit I'm labouring under the massive conceit that what I've said amounts to more than republican bashing.

Mighty_Mouse

Fair point.

My understanding of the point at issue is why cases of Loyalist violence typically seem to generate less discussion than cases of Republican violence.

Can you clarify? Are you saying that the reason for more media interest in Republican voilence is because it's current?

I agree to some extent but theres also a serious element of vilification, anti-republican, political agendas as opposed to reporting of "current" events. Take the Indo for example, which runs near-loyalist-like rants in every issue regardless of whats going-on politically.

Running Bing

hill16 wrote:

Or the abduction and murder of a young woman by Loyalists a couple of months ago which has hardly being mentioned in the media.

Why would it be mentioned? Its not gonna help southern political parties in any way and People are only interested in hearing about how horrible republicans are.

The media is an immensely powerful thing and this illustrates thet people only hear what the news and papers want them to hear which for now seems to be how bad Sinn Fein are.

ishmael whale

The Indo is not a great paper, and is indeed given to flogging a line on this and other topics. But, in fairness, I don't rate the Examiner and the Times as being biased in that same sense. Yet pretty much all of the media would give more attention to, say, the Northern Bank robbery than to Loyalist activities.

It’s not just that the IRA related stories are current in the sense of the events occurring at the present time. It’s also the fact that the SF links to the IRA means these events are of more significance for now and for the future. From my perspective, I see SF gaining political power while the IRA is still an active force and I’m uncertain about where that is taking us. (Or, more correctly, I’m pretty certain its not taking us anywhere good.)

It’s the SF link that makes IRA actions more noteworthy. It’s a simple fact that parties linked to Loyalist paramilitaries don’t have two MEPs and representation in both the House of Commons and the Dail.

Mighty_Mouse

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

Take the Indo for example, which runs near-loyalist-like rants in every issue regardless of whats going-on politically.

Indeed it does,It wouldnt avoid loyalist racketeering in the 26 counties if it had evidence of it though.
The indo is increasingly tabloidy in my view, especially so when you see long standing investigative reporters in it using terms in print such as "shinners" instead of either "Republicans" or Sinn Féin.

That said, it is by far the most read newspaper in Ireland.
The more hard line Sindo having way over a million adult readers every week.
Thats a significant amount of readers who dont have a big enough problem with their "daily's" message to stop buying it.
It's evidence if anything of a mindset in the Republic softly leaning towards that of the papers editors.

jman0

To get back on topic:

What about the issues raised about RoI's sovereignty?
Obviously HMG doesn't respect RoI, they didn't then in 1976 why would they today?
Doesn't seem like HMG would today because they had no qualms about going into Iraq.

What about RoI's own government? They also don't appear to care about their own sovereignty, nor even care of the rights of her own citizens.

Why should we?

cdebru

the problem I think that papers like the indo etc create is that they are so vehemently anti republican that they think nothing of printing lies and fabrications to win people over to their side
what happens then is that if/when they do come across something that is true like robert mccartney etc people of a republican mindset dismiss it as more anti republican propaganda

they obviuosly few the Provisional republican movement as a threat to the cosy situation they enjoy at the moment
However I think they are wrong PSF is no more of a threat to the establishment than the workers party was in the 80s it is talk and bluster about how they will change the system but they are already well on the way to becoming the part of the system.
the fact is in relation to the provisional republican movement anti republicans are still fighting a battle they have all ready largely won and in doing so are actualy providing credibility to a movement that has abandoned in a real sense any claims of being revolutionary

Running Bing

jman0 wrote:

What about RoI's own government? They also don't appear to care about their own sovereignty, nor even care of the rights of her own citizens.

I raised this point in another thread. People constantly ask why are Sinn Fein still so popular? and its simply because republicans have no other alternative. the southern government and indded other southern parties just do not care about a united Ireland or the people of the north for that matter and I truly believe if they had a choice they would wish the whole issue would just fade away making them essentially unionist.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

However I think they are wrong PSF is no more of a threat to the establishment than the workers party was in the 80s it is talk and bluster about how they will change the system but they are already well on the way to becoming the part of the system.

You have a point there.
When first I saw the workers party , then Dem Lef,I'd have looked on them as pseudo communist.
Now see where they are...


Temporarally closing this thread by the way, while I remove the crap and send it to the recycle bin.
The thread will reopen in about 5 mins-meanwhile theres a variety of refreshments available at the bar

The off topic stuff will go to the merged SF thread.

jman0

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Please try to keep it ontopic daveirl.
What's does the differnence in priorty southerners and northers feel towards a unitied ireland have to do with RoI and HMG's lack of respect for RoI's rights as a sovereign nation?

Your second sentence entirely off topic.
But maybe that's your objective?

ishmael whale

jman0 wrote:

What about the issues raised about RoI's sovereignty?
Obviously HMG doesn't respect RoI, they didn't then in 1976 why would they today? Doesn't seem like HMG would today because they had no qualms about going into Iraq.

You seem to be building an awful lot on top of one incident. You may well be of the opinion that the Republic is under a present threat of invasion, but I doubt if many share that conviction.

Allegations that the Irish state colluded with the UK to protect an intelligence operative by covering up a murder in 1976 really doesn’t seem to have that much practical application to the present day. Who knew what about the Northern Bank robbery seems of more immediate interest. In any case, its seems there will be a fresh inquest that ultimately may or may not lead to a fuller investigation.

jman0 wrote:

What about RoI's own government? They also don't appear to care about their own sovereignty, nor even care of the rights of her own citizens. Why should we?

Just to clarify, are you saying that you don't care about the sovereignty of the Republic or the rights of its citizens? If not, what are you saying?

You might also take a reality check. By and large, the Republic’s Government functions. Its not the prettiest democracy in the world, but its what we've made it by successive popular votes.