Arsenal - Everton (scores)

Rossonero

yop wrote:

Why cause u are a liverpool fan.....? FFS!!

Cause I'm a Liverpool fan???????????

TheMonster

Just goes to show how poor the teams under them are when the team that finishes 4th can get beat like that

Sherifu

I saw the goals this morning, Everton were ass-raped.

I thought the penalty was dodgy, ball to hand imo.

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

As for the goal difference well it's a poor indictment of the teams below them that they can get 4th with such a low difference..

Not really. What it actually indicates that a lot of the games that were won by Everton were single goal hard fought victories, hence taking two pastings from Arsenal is going to have that affect on thier goal difference.

Third_Echelon wrote:

Perhaps if it was still the 2 league rounds in the CL with the losers going into the uefa after the first league stages, but that doesn't happen any more, so I guess we won't be seeing you in the UEFA cup after all.

This still is the case with the third place team from the group stages going into the UEFA cup. So you might still be seeing Liverpool in Europe next year. In either competition.

TheMonster wrote:

Just goes to show how poor the teams under them are when the team that finishes 4th can get beat like that

I know you are not much more than a troll but Ill respond anyway. It doesnt show anything, as has been said umpteen times this game was a nothing game for Everton. Arsenal are still very focussed. It goes to show the difference in between Arsenal and their challengers that Arsenal can despatch Everton 11-1 over two games where as some of their rivals lost five points to Everton.

If I put a does this make it funny?

Third_Echelon

Jivin Turkey wrote:

This still is the case with the third place team from the group stages going into the UEFA cup. So you might still be seeing Liverpool in Europe next year. In either competition.

I dont think so... That didn't happen in this year's CL....

jesus_thats_gre

I think it did..

jesus_thats_gre

Against Arsenal they have been completely exposed for what they are now that they have nothing to play for; well motivated journeymen.

http://www.football365.com/opinion/mailbox/story_152147.shtml

Makaveli

Third_Echelon wrote:

I dont think so... That didn't happen in this year's CL....

Yes it did.

Jivin Turkey

Third_Echelon wrote:

I dont think so... That didn't happen in this year's CL....

CSKA Moscow were in Chelseas group in the CL and are now in the UEFA cup final. Shaktar Donetsk were in Celtics group and got to the quarters of the UEFA cup.

jesus_thats_gre

Jivin Turkey wrote:

CSKA Moscow were in Chelseas group in the CL and are now in the UEFA cup final. Shaktar Donetsk were in Celtics group and got to the quarters of the UEFA cup.

but it didn't happen...

mr_angry

You can defend the thrashing all you like as the result of 'a nothing game' from Everton's point of view, but the fact that it was your club's worst ever defeat is certainly noteworthy. If it happened to my club, I would be asking serious questions, particularly why the palyers were not capable of playing for the pride of the club. To me, it looks as if they don't really care about the club, or the fans that paid to watch that miserable, embarrasing performance.

West Brom came to Highbury and got a 1-1 draw. Even Norwich came away with only a 4-1 defeat, but at least put up a fight. To me, Everton are worse than them for not even bothering to turn up and play for the club, the fans, or their professional pride. And if you don't care about any of that, then you can't be much of a fan either.

Guy:Incognito

It can't really be said that arsenal were pushing extra hard because of the FA cup final, if anything they are taking it easier to make sure they don't pick up any injuries.

Third_Echelon

mr_angry wrote:

You can defend the thrashing all you like as the result of 'a nothing game' from Everton's point of view, but the fact that it was your club's worst ever defeat is certainly noteworthy. If it happened to my club, I would be asking serious questions, particularly why the palyers were not capable of playing for the pride of the club. To me, it looks as if they don't really care about the club, or the fans that paid to watch that miserable, embarrasing performance.

You obviously haven't been watching them all season. How can you say that they haven't played for the pride of the club and the fans all season? That statement is complete twaddle to be honest....

They have used about 15 players all season. They are tired and worn out. They've reached the finish line for this season. They just weren't capable of pulling off another win.

mr_angry wrote:

West Brom came to Highbury and got a 1-1 draw. Even Norwich came away with only a 4-1 defeat, but at least put up a fight. To me, Everton are worse than them for not even bothering to turn up and play for the club, the fans, or their professional pride. And if you don't care about any of that, then you can't be much of a fan either.

well we all know what happened after the last time that we were beaten by arsenal....

This defeat will surely inspire them in the same way and go on to win the league and CL next season... the only way is up.

Third_Echelon

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

but it didn't happen...

My mistake, but i thought they got rid of that because the second group stage was scrapped...

jesus_thats_gre

Third_Echelon wrote:

My mistake, but i thought they got rid of that because the second group stage was scrapped...

You are forgiven..


Back to the point.. Once Everton went 3 or 4 down yesterday, you would have thought the players would have tried to keep it at that. Damage limitation as such. This is what is causing people here to question the performance so much.. The worst defeat in the history of the club is a big downer on an otherwise very respectable season and shouldn't be dismissed.

You can point out that the game meant nothing to Everton but what sort of excuse is that for a 7 nill defeat. 7 nill man.

Third_Echelon

Well you seem to be more worried about it than anyone else...

Before that game they have one of the best defensive records in the premiership this season. 0.93 goals conceded per game. This result has bumped it up a bit, but I can't fault the everton player's commitment this season. It was just one game... They'll get over it..

THE END.

mr_angry

Third_Echelon wrote:

You obviously haven't been watching them all season. How can you say that they haven't played for the pride of the club and the fans all season? That statement is complete twaddle to be honest....

They have used about 15 players all season. They are tired and worn out. They've reached the finish line for this season. They just weren't capable of pulling off another win.

Yeah right. This wasn't any other defeat. The worst defeat in your club's history! And you want to blame that on the lads being 'a bit tired', or having gone out on the pìss 4 days before the game? Rubbish. When Leicster lost 5-0 at Highbury a few years back, Martin O'Neill went straight down to the Leicster fans to personally apologise. Instead Everton seem to be concentrating on making poor-quality excuses for what can only be described as a disgraceful attempt to represent Everton football club.

As it happens, I have been keeping an eye on Everton all season, and they've played well - above their station, some might say. But in my opinion, I could never justify players resting on their laurels, and putting in a performance like that. They were given a lesson not just in football, but in commitment, pride, and giving back something to the public who pay their massive wages. I don't know how you can call that kind of performance acceptable - it was beyond disgraceful.

Third_Echelon wrote:

well we all know what happened after the last time that we were beaten by arsenal....

This defeat will surely inspire them in the same way and go on to win the league and CL next season... the only way is up.

If you're not interested in serious debate, fair enough. Don't expect me to take any of your opinions seriously in that case though. And I seriously doubt Everton will be any better next season - European competition puts a massive strain on any squad, and Everton's has struggled to cope with the league alone since Gravesen left. Look at Middlesboro and Liverpool this season as an example. Sure, Everton are likely to buy players in the summer, but so did Middlesboro and Liverpool last summer. So did Ipswich a few seasons back.

Just out of interest, where are Everton in the form table since Gravesen left?

Third_Echelon

mr_angry wrote:

Yeah right. This wasn't any other defeat. The worst defeat in your club's history! And you want to blame that on the lads being 'a bit tired', or having gone out on the pìss 4 days before the game? Rubbish. When Leicster lost 5-0 at Highbury a few years back, Martin O'Neill went straight down to the Leicster fans to personally apologise.

.....as did the everton team last night after the game.

Of course they were embarassed by this defeat, who wouldn't be. Moyes wasn't saying much after the game was he?

mr_angry wrote:

Instead Everton seem to be concentrating on making poor-quality excuses for what can only be described as a disgraceful attempt to represent Everton football club.

Everton haven't made any excuses. The reality of the situation just appeared. They were tired after a long season and they had reached their target.

mr_angry wrote:

As it happens, I have been keeping an eye on Everton all season, and they've played well - above their station, some might say. But in my opinion, I could never justify players resting on their laurels, and putting in a performance like that. They were given a lesson not just in football, but in commitment, pride, and giving back something to the public who pay their massive wages. I don't know how you can call that kind of performance acceptable - it was beyond disgraceful.

You're entitled to your opinion, but i dont agree with you. If there's no juice left in the tank, you cant really do much.. can you?

mr_angry wrote:

If you're not interested in serious debate, fair enough. Don't expect me to take any of your opinions seriously in that case though.

Who said I wasn't being serious? Again this is in your opinion.

Fair enough it was a bad defeat, but there is always a reason behind these things and to be quite honest i'm sick to death of the everton bashing this season just for the sake of it. Jumped up fans of the bigger clubs thinking that its their god given right to p1ss on top of the other clubs. When a new one tries to take a bite of the cherry they get ridiculed for the style of their play, the players they buy, they played above their station etc etc...

You get what you deserve. Everton didn't deserve anything last night. Over the season though they have.

mr_angry wrote:

...And I seriously doubt Everton will be any better next season - European competition puts a massive strain on any squad, and Everton's has struggled to cope with the league alone since Gravesen left.

only for a few games. As soon as arteta had found his feet and got his fitness back they were back to winning ways. They haven't been below 4th since september, so i'd call that bloody good form.

mr_angry wrote:

Look at Middlesboro and Liverpool this season as an example. Sure, Everton are likely to buy players in the summer, but so did Middlesboro and Liverpool last summer. So did Ipswich a few seasons back.

Different clubs, different situations. Moyes isn't a stupid guy. He knows that the league is a priority. I don't envisage him planning to win the CL in all reality. They will play their best and try to win every game, but this qualification is about everton trying to make the step back to the big time, where the money is...

mr_angry wrote:

Just out of interest, where are Everton in the form table since Gravesen left?

Doesn't really matter now. His leaving had no affect on our position in the league....


//edit// on reading that it may be construed that I called mr_angry a 'jumped up fan of a bigger club'. This was not the intention of the Third_Echelon corporation. The comment was meant in general *hugs mr_angry*

mr_angry

Third_Echelon wrote:

Doesn't really matter now. His leaving had no affect on our position in the league....

Actually, you were in 2nd place or thereabouts when he left. You are now 22 points adrift of second place, and 33 adrift of the top.

I know its not since Gravesen left precisely, but Football365 have your form over the last 8 games putting you in 13th place. Behind West Brom, and Birmingham.

13 Everton (4) 8 3 1 4 9 13 -4 1.12 1.62 1.25 10 lWlDWWll

I certainly don't mean to bash Everton unfairly, but lets acknowledge the facts here. Gravesen's departure had a significant effect on the team, and last night was a truly unacceptable performance from any Premiership side, for any reason. If it happened to Graeme Souness or even Alex Ferguson, they would probably be sacked / resign.

Third_Echelon

I'm not saying that his leaving didn't have an affect. It did and it took us a few games to catch up to our form again, but we did well enough to keep the wolf from the door and consolidate our position.

We did hit 2nd and 3rd for a period of a few weeks, but just then Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea went into 5th gear and the gap opened up. It unfortunately conincided with a slight dip in form for us.

The difference with everton is that there is no way moyes would leave/be sacked after just one stupid defeat. There is a lot more to come from moyes and a decision like that would be very short sighted on moyes/the clubs part to consider such an option.
Everton are in ascedancy. Man Utd and Newcastle are on the way down. Thats where the difference lies in their attitude towards their management.

mr_angry

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Everton should sack Moyes. All I'm asking is that you admit that 1) your form has been nowhere near the form you had with Gravesen (13th with your position 'consolidated' and Arteta having 'found his feet' do not compare with 2nd-4th), and 2) that last nights performance was, in fact, a disgrace. Thats all.

Pigman II

As an aside, this reminds me of the season where Norwich lost 7-1 to Blackburn but still qualified for the Uefa Cup in 3rd place in the same season and the next season went on a nice little cup run to boot (even knocking out Bayern Munich IIRC?).

Not a bad omen if you're an Everton supporter I suppose.

mr_angry

They got relegated the next season too!

Third_Echelon

mr_angry wrote:

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Everton should sack Moyes. All I'm asking is that you admit that 1) your form has been nowhere near the form you had with Gravesen (13th with your position 'consolidated' and Arteta having 'found his feet' do not compare with 2nd-4th), and 2) that last nights performance was, in fact, a disgrace. Thats all.

1) The form guide you were talking about was only for the last 8 games was it not?
In January when gravesen left our record for that month was W3 D1 L2.
In Feb it was W2 D1 L2(man utd cup/chelsea league). Not the worst form in the world...

It was in March/start of april where we lost to blackburn, liverpool and west brom that our form suffered. gravesen was well gone at this stage, so in fairness, I think we weathered the storm well in Jan and Feb when we lost our most influential player.

They just hit a bad patch around march/april, which most most teams (apart from chelsea) seem to suffer.. thats football.

2) Of course it was a disgrace, but I am happy with my teams performance this year with the resources that they had, it was a bloody miracle..
At the end of the season with a result like that, I could forgive them based on the effort they put in all season.

Bent and Kilbane have played in every premiership game this season. They were fcuked running around the pitch the other night... Kilbane was not getting to the balls that he'd usually get to, his touch was not good... same with bent. To me this is a definite sign of tiredness.

Unfortunately this was just one game too far for them and they didn't live up to their 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum' motto.