85,000 EU migrants move to Ireland

Macmorris

It's interesting that many of the people who are now defending the unrestricted immigration of eastern europeans as being 'good for the economy' were the same people who denounced as scare-mongers those on the anti-Nice treaty side who predicted that this is just what would happen if we voted for the treaty.

I think it's fair to say that the anti-treatyites have been proved right about immigration, we have been swamped. 85,000 is a huge number of people. It's the equivalent to the combined populations of Galway City and Athlone being added to our population in the last year and it's at least five times the yearly number of people who came here during the height of the asylum racket. On another thread I was attacked for comparing the current rate of immigration to the Ulster Plantation, but in the Ulster plantation there was only around 40,000 Scots who settled here, half of the number of immigrants that have come here in the last year. And I know that the population of Ireland was much smaller in the 1600s and so the Scottish settlement had a much greater relative impact than the current immigration, but still, it's worth looking at the problem purely in terms of numbers of people. There is simply no precedent in Irish history for the scale of immigration that we are now having to deal with.

As for the claim that we need this number of immigrants for our economy, IBEC claimed that we needed 40,000 people a year, not 80,000. Are they now going to turn around and admit that we have twice as many immigrants as they themselves wanted?

I think it's pathetic that we tolerate a government that is so arrogant that they will just ignore the views of ordinary Irish people on immigration. The government knew that people's fear over immigration was one of the main reasons that Irish people originally voted against the nice treaty, and yet they still went ahead and became one of the only governments in the EU to impose no restrictions on eastern immigration. They obviously believed that they could get away with it because they knew that they wouldn't be challenged. Unlike other European countries, we have no real organised political opposition to immigration and so the government can have as liberal an immigration policy as the media and big business wants, while at the same time exploiting people's ignorance to preach to us about what's 'good for the economy'.

Zombrex

simu wrote:

Yeah, good point. I'm generally in favour of immigration but you're right in saying that we're ignoring potential problems at the moment and assuming naively that everything will turn out well when we should be studying what happens in the newly arrived groups and how they interact with "natives" more closely to avoid future hassle.

What do you suggest we do?

Zombrex

Macmorris wrote:

As for the claim that we need this number of immigrants for our economy, IBEC claimed that we needed 40,000 people a year, not 80,000. Are they now going to turn around and admit that we have twice as many immigrants as they themselves wanted?

If there aren't jobs for them they will leave ... simply, problem solved ... and will everyone stop talking as if 80,000 a year is going to be repeated for the next 10 years, because that is nonsense. The system reaches equlibruim naturally

Zombrex

Macmorris wrote:

There is simply no precedent in Irish history for the scale of immigration that we are now having to deal with.

And yet, despite nearly 7 years of doomsday predictions by the anti-immigration crowd we are still waiting for the terrible effects of immigration to ... you konw .. start!? What exactly is going to happen again, the Irish economy is going to crash?, there will be riots in the street? AIDS will sky rocket? Crime will go through the roof? White girls will be seen at African discos with black men :eek: !?

When exactly is all this supposed to happen?

All this doom and gloom (immigration will destroy this country) that has been going on for the last 7 years in Ireland and the last 50 years in England, and yet last time I check NOTHING HAPPENED ... :rolleyes:

Quantum

Wicknight wrote:

What do you suggest we do?

One thing that may be a positive thing to do would be to appoint a minister for Immigration and Integration. This minister would co ordinate the study of how other countries have dealt with this issue and what mistakes they made and lessons they learned. They could co ordinate local work to promote integration and socialising between the communities and they could disseminate the kind of education that is clearly need by people like MacMorrise above who are a small minority but make a lot of annoying noise about their fears.
Such a minister would by definition ensure that the subject of immigration is always discussed at thre top table of government.

QualderWahl

@ Wicknight:

I have been correctly berated by "Quantum" for implying that 85,000 immigrants in a 12-month period constitutes a trend. However, my extrapolation was at least based on hard data for a given period.

However, you still have not provided a source to confirm your thesis that the population of Ireland ought to be 14 million today. You must have evidence to back up such an outrageous assumption. It undermines your entire argument.

uberwolf

Wicknight wrote:

And yet, despite nearly 7 years of doomsday predictions by the anti-immigration crowd we are still waiting for the terrible effects of immigration to ... you konw .. start!? What exactly is going to happen again, the Irish economy is going to crash?, there will be riots in the street? AIDS will sky rocket? Crime will go through the roof? White girls will be seen at African discos with black men :eek: !?

When exactly is all this supposed to happen?

All this doom and gloom (immigration will destroy this country) that has been going on for the last 7 years in Ireland and the last 50 years in England, and yet last time I check NOTHING HAPPENED ... :rolleyes:

you had me till you mentioned England. linkee

ArthurDent

simu wrote:

One example: I've seen some mention made in the papers of children arriving into junior infants without a word of English. This wouldn't be a problem if resource teachers were plentiful and available to bring them up to scratch but they're not and we could end up with a two-tier system where native speakers of English have a huge advantage over those with little knowledge of the language.

I'm involved on the management side of a primary school with 56% of pupils whose first language is not english and the biggest problem is not actually with the pupils - every kid in this position receives 2 years of extra tuition with an ESL (English as a second language)teacher and most pupils are doing very well after these two years (with the possible exception of those that arrive in the country much later on than Junior Infants) but the biggest problem that we encounter is that the parents english can be very bad. We have found this especially to be true if they are a family in which perhaps only the dad is working and the mum stays at home and is very isolated, perhaps only speaking with friends from the same country etc. There is very little support for these mums and if language is such a problem integration is next to impossible.

Quantum

Macmorris wrote:

It's interesting that many of the people who are now defending the unrestricted immigration of eastern europeans as being 'good for the economy' were the same people who denounced as scare-mongers those on the anti-Nice treaty side who predicted that this is just what would happen if we voted for the treaty.

Thankfully we won and this immigration is sustaining our growth and keeping our standards of living and employment high. It's a wonderful success.

I think it's fair to say that the anti-treatyites have been proved right about immigration, we have been swamped. 85,000 is a huge number of people. It's the equivalent to the combined populations of Galway City and Athlone being added to our population in the last year and it's at least five times the yearly number of people who came here during the height of the asylum racket.

It seems like a small number fo people to me. Your hyperbole isn't supported by the facts.

On another thread I was attacked for comparing the current rate of immigration to the Ulster Plantation, but in the Ulster plantation there was only around 40,000 Scots who settled here, half of the number of immigrants that have come here in the last year. And I know that the population of Ireland was much smaller in the 1600s and so the Scottish settlement had a much greater relative impact than the current immigration, but still, it's worth looking at the problem purely in terms of numbers of people. There is simply no precedent in Irish history for the scale of immigration that we are now having to deal with.

A precedent isn't necessary. There is no precedent for the wonderful economic boom here in ireland here - does that mean it should have been rejected ? clearly that would be nonsense.
And the negative comparison with the Ulster Plantatio is erroneous and scurrilous. The problem with the Ulster Plantation has absolutely nothing to do with the numbers involved. It had to do the TRANSplantation and the theft of the land.

As for the claim that we need this number of immigrants for our economy, IBEC claimed that we needed 40,000 people a year, not 80,000. Are they now going to turn around and admit that we have twice as many immigrants as they themselves wanted?

They were wrong and vastly underestimated our needs.

I think it's pathetic that we tolerate a government that is so arrogant that they will just ignore the views of ordinary Irish people on immigration. The government knew that people's fear over immigration was one of the main reasons that Irish people originally voted against the nice treaty, and yet they still went ahead and became one of the only governments in the EU to impose no restrictions on eastern immigration.

A terrific decision by the majority of the Irish voters who disagree with you and who have ben proved right all along. The government acted correctly and wisely and now we have an economy that is still growing and expanding and a country where almost no one who wants to work cannot find a job. We also have a country with lots and lots of people from all over Europe and indeed the world, who bring fascinating customs and experiences and languages to our shores. It's bloody great.

They obviously believed that they could get away with it because they knew that they wouldn't be challenged. Unlike other European countries, we have no real organised political opposition to immigration and so the government can have as liberal an immigration policy as the media and big business wants, while at the same time exploiting people's ignorance to preach to us about what's 'good for the economy'.

It's bloody fantastic isn't it. Of course the truth is that most people in Ireland see the benefits and don't agree with your point of view. A point of view that appears to be driven by irrationality and fear.

QualderWahl

Quantum wrote:

One thing that may be a positive thing to do would be to appoint a minister for Immigration and Integration. This minister would co ordinate the study of how other countries have dealt with this issue and what mistakes they made and lessons they learned. They could co ordinate local work to promote integration and socialising between the communities and they could disseminate the kind of education that is clearly need by people like MacMorrise above who are a small minority but make a lot of annoying noise about their fears.
Such a minister would by definition ensure that the subject of immigration is always discussed at thre top table of government.

Quantum, I have one question in relation to your post.

Much of the media and pro-immigration commentary on the development of a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic Ireland indicates that it is a natural and inevitable consequence of the (i) the 21st century and (ii) the transition to a relatively affluent society.

However, if large-scale immigration really is such a "natural" process, why do we need to appoint a government minister to oversee integration? Surely, it is a process that should occur organically on the streets? Similarly, the socialising and intermingling aspect should happen by default without any attempts to socially engineer interaction. As an aside, it is impossible to encourage people to socialise together. People will always revert to the groups with whom they feel most comfortable. God knows, there are plenty of Irish people I would never want to go for a pint with Similarly, any attempt to induce Irish people and immigrants to socialise is doomed to failure.

Why are so many facilitators required to support (what we are encouraged to believe) is such a natural evolution in Irish society?

BTW- I agree that it is beneficial to calmly discuss immigration and it is really necessary that both the pro- and anti- opinions are evaluated equally (assuming that they are not based on hyperbole or conjecture).

mike65

QualderWahl wrote:

@ Wicknight:

However, you still have not provided a source to confirm your thesis that the population of Ireland ought to be 14 million today. You must have evidence to back up such an outrageous assumption. It undermines your entire argument.

Far be it for me to guess Wicknight on this but I think he/she's extrapolating from Ireland pre-faimine and how the population would have grown had a million not died and another million not emigrated. After all many in that 2 million would have had childen and those children would have had children and so on to the present. Also the post-independence economy would proberly have been stronger with a larger population so fewer would have leftto seek work. 14 million is bound to be a very rough educated guess but not unreasonable.

Mike.

QualderWahl

mike65 wrote:

Far be it for me to guess Wicknight on this but I think he/she's extrapolating from Ireland pre-faimine and how the population would have grown had a million not died and another million not emigrated. After all many in that 2 million would have had childen and those children would have had children and so on to the present. Also the post-independence economy would proberly have been stronger with a larger population so fewer would have leftto seek work. 14 million is bound to be a very rough educated guess but not unreasonable.

Mike.

Hi Mike65,

I agree. Wicknight's extrapolation is a VERY rough guess. The problem with such guess work is that it is frequently entirely inaccurate. e.g. Refer to the Government / IBEC data for the expected volume of post-accession immigrants v the actual

Macmorris

Wicknight wrote:

What exactly is going to happen again, the Irish economy is going to crash?, there will be riots in the street? AIDS will sky rocket? Crime will go through the roof? White girls will be seen at African discos with black men :eek: !?

When exactly is all this supposed to happen?

Around the year 2050.

uberwolf

Macmorris wrote:

Around the year 2050.

could you limit your input to contributions please.

gurramok

Quantum wrote:

But I believe that the growth is slowing and irish society can accomadate at the very least 100,000 and more immigrant workers.

Just a snippet...For the present 85,000 and another 100,000, where are they going to live ?
There is a severe housing shortage already and the vast majority of new houses\appts that are being built are snapped up by long stay mortgage repayers and investors.
I can see how investors would accomodate some of the newcomers as tenants but would all of the newcomers be renting out from landlords ?
Just curious as I thought that property would be far too expensive to afford and rent is sky high for everyone.
Most of the newcomers would be in the low pay bracket plus sending some of their money back to their home countries especially if they are short stayers (assumption)
Can someone explain ?

pete

gurramok wrote:

Just a snippet...For the present 85,000 and another 100,000, where are they going to live ?
There is a severe housing shortage already and the vast majority of new houses\appts that are being built are snapped up by long stay mortgage repayers and investors.
I can see how investors would accomodate some of the newcomers as tenants but would all of the newcomers be renting out from landlords ?
Just curious as I thought that property would be far too expensive to afford and rent is sky high for everyone.
Most of the newcomers would be in the low pay bracket plus sending some of their money back to their home countries especially if they are short stayers (assumption)
Can someone explain ?

Given that I don't recall tripping over "85,000" johnny foreigners sleeping rough on my way to work any time over the last 12 months, i'd imagine they're living in their houses.

Just a guess, mind.

Cork

It is a grat thing we are attracting people. Years ago many Irish had no choice but to travel to take up some pretty poor jobs.

I know that there are issues concerning intergration but when you look at the change in this county since the awful 1950's or 80's - I think intergration etc should not be insormountable.

Karl Hungus

Wicknight wrote:

What exactly is going to happen again, the Irish economy is going to crash?, there will be riots in the street? AIDS will sky rocket? Crime will go through the roof? White girls will be seen at African discos with black men !?

When exactly is all this supposed to happen?

Macmorris wrote:

Around the year 2050.

...? What the hell are either of you talking about?

For one, AIDS is skyrocketing! Just look at this, and this. Relatively speaking, that's a huge increase, so while we're certainly not competing with spain for figures, it's pretty shocking none the less.

Macmorris

uberwolf wrote:

could you limit your input to contributions please.

I was being serious.

2050 is the year that the indigenous Irish people are set to become an ethnic minority in this country. Wicknight wondered when many of the problems that anti-immigrationists have predicted are going to happen. I think the year 2050 would be a fair prediction.

oscarBravo

gurramok wrote:

Just a snippet...For the present 85,000 and another 100,000, where are they going to live ? ... I can see how investors would accomodate some of the newcomers as tenants but would all of the newcomers be renting out from landlords ?

...as opposed to renting from whom, exactly? If houses are being bought, someone's living in them - whether they're owners or tenants.

Macmorris wrote:

2050 is the year that the indigenous Irish people are set to become an ethnic minority in this country.

You have, of course, either a reputable source or a proven methodology to back up this assertion?

Macmorris

oscarBravo wrote:

You have, of course, either a reputable source or a proven methodology to back up this assertion?

Professor Ferdinand von Prondzynski of Dublin City University

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/5233563?view=Eircomnet

uberwolf

that link didn't work so I went digging - here is the article I presume you're refering to

Ireland's native population could be in a minority by the middle of this century, the president of Dublin City University (DCU) will claim today. But large-scale immigration is still essential if we are to remain prosperous, Prof Ferdinand von Prondzynski will say.

Unpublished UK-based research, which he does not identify, has indicated that by 2050, Ireland's population will consist of a multicultural and multiethnic mix in which the indigenous Irish will form a minority.

He says this is based on some demographic projections which also suggest that people of Chinese origin may form the largest of the new ethnic groups.

"Whether this turns out to be an accurate prediction or not, we have to prepare for a very different kind of society," he says.

"It needs to be a planned process to ensure our skills needs are being met . . . a very substantial increase in population will be needed over a long period of time.

"And I don't think people have quite realised this yet."

In a speech to be delivered at a conferring ceremony in DCU later today, Prof von Prondzynski will also argue that any attempt to stop migration here will lead to a significant decline in the Irish economy, and a return to Ireland's peripheral status in Europe.

This is because a major population expansion is needed for the next wave of economic growth.

Universities have a particular obligation to prepare the country for the increasingly multicultural nature of Irish society, he believes.

Inter-cultural studies and research should be prioritised, while care needs to be taken to ensure the "new Irish" gain equal access to higher education.

Universities should also be "active contributors" to anti-racism policies, and should offer support to industry and to Government agencies in this regard.

However, Prof von Prondzynski will stress that they should maintain an interest in, and support for, Irish traditional culture as part of this development.

"Ireland as a multicultural society will be able to make a particularly valuable contribution to the new Europe, and will be able to continue to lead as a country in which high-value innovation takes place and strong community values are espoused."

Although the immigration issue is a difficult one for the Government, recently introduced measures - such as increased restrictions on citizenship - are frequently counterproductive, the professor said yesterday.

"People are nervous about immigration. But immigration is almost always a good thing. People think immigrants come here and take jobs, but the opposite is true. They will come and create jobs."

bonkey

Macmorris wrote:

Professor Ferdinand von Prondzynski of Dublin City University

...says this is based on some demographic projections which also suggest that people of Chinese origin may form the largest of the new ethnic groups.

Well...as long as we ensure China don't join the EU, this would seem to remove all relevance to EU-originating immigration.

Also...exactly how credible is research where you don't disclose the actual sources that it is based on?

jc

mycroft

QualderWahl wrote:

However, if large-scale immigration really is such a "natural" process, why do we need to appoint a government minister to oversee integration? Surely, it is a process that should occur organically on the streets?

I'm sorry who is the minister of migrant intergration?

As for the deparment, it's neceessary to arrange a the legal paperwork etc for migration. It's not as if we require the Health board to arrange a social mixture. And its not as if they do.

Similarly, the socialising and intermingling aspect should happen by default without any attempts to socially engineer interaction. As an aside, it is impossible to encourage people to socialise together. People will always revert to the groups with whom they feel most comfortable. God knows, there are plenty of Irish people I would never want to go for a pint with Similarly, any attempt to induce Irish people and immigrants to socialise is doomed to failure.

Yes, but no one is suggesting engineering social interaction. And that "people will alwasy revert to the groups with they feel more comfortable" comment is a sly implication that you are a migrant from another slightly more infamous discussion forum.

Why are so many facilitators required to support (what we are encouraged to believe) is such a natural evolution in Irish society?

And again I don't feel the need for facilitators, I've spoken and am friends with migrants, and so many people on this thread have discussed that they get on well, with so many of them whom they work with. You're the only who's suggested we need to engineer social meetings to create artifical relationships, the ministries in place, are there to facilate their arrival, and entrance into the workplace.

BTW- I agree that it is beneficial to calmly discuss immigration and it is really necessary that both the pro- and anti- opinions are evaluated equally (assuming that they are not based on hyperbole or conjecture).

And again you've dragged in the need and impossibilty to engineer social interaction. You're the only who's suggested 'any attempt to induce Irish people and immigrants to socialise is doomed to failure. ', which is conjecture, and hyperbole, there's plenty of successful migrant relation groups working in the city.

[edit]

also upon re-reading wickednight's post, I think he was pointing out that less than 200 years ago the population of this Island was 14million. Now it was a unsuccessful 14 million but that was due to the majority of the population engaged in primitive subsistance farming. Currently we have one of the lowest population density in the (pre enlargement EU). Plenty of EU countries (denmark being an excellent example) is a country of similar or smaller size with a higher population density, and far greater life satisfaction.

Quantum

QualderWahl wrote:

However, if large-scale immigration really is such a "natural" process, why do we need to appoint a government minister to oversee integration? Surely, it is a process that should occur organically on the streets? Similarly, the socialising and intermingling aspect should happen by default without any attempts to socially engineer interaction. As an aside, it is impossible to encourage people to socialise together. People will always revert to the groups with whom they feel most comfortable. God knows, there are plenty of Irish people I would never want to go for a pint with Similarly, any attempt to induce Irish people and immigrants to socialise is doomed to failure.

I don't agree. And this is the view that was held by people in the UK and in France and partly in the US. Can we not learn from their mistakes ? or are you happy for Ireland to repeat them and end up with racial problems like them ? I would prefer to try to do better.

Also I never suggested a minister just for integration. I suggest a minister for Immigration and Integration.

I happen to think integration is a good thing. And I don't believe in the 'leave it alone and it'll be alright' theory of people.

I know many immigrants and I can see from their day to day experience as well as my own knowledge of what happened in the UK, that it is not easy for them to meet and get to know Irish poeple. They tell me this all the time. This is what contributes to segregated communities. Look at the Chinese comunity here. They keep to themselves an enormous amount, which I believe contributes to the really sickeningly denegrating attitude among so many people here toward them.

Why are so many facilitators required to support (what we are encouraged to believe) is such a natural evolution in Irish society?

I don't know who is telling you about this natural evolution ? where and who says this ? I never heard it. And I don't believe it.

If you look around you at our society you will find, in my opinion, that people are more insular than ever. Trying to even get people to mix with others in their own road is a major job, never mind people from other countries. And what do people do to try to promote this ? They hold a BBQ evening, or a sing song evening or some kind of 'event' that brings people together.
To anyone that tells me that people 'naturally' mix and socialise - I say rubbish !

If we want to develop a harmonious society here in Ireland between communities I believe that it would go a LONG way if we had some kind of co ordinated program to bring people together through community events in every lcoal community around the country. We should have irish-chinese music and BBQ days, irish-polish fairs... multicultural events that bring everyone out and get them talking and socialising. This is far too important an issue to leave to 'nature'. Look at the number of people all over Ireland who still harbour irrational fear of foreigners; who think they are weird or dirty or 'strange'. The best way to conquer this irrationality is to get people talking, mixing socialising.

Of course immigrant communities will always stick together. The Irish did it and do it all over the world. But a balance can be achieved between sticking together and mixing with local society. And it is easy to see the successful societies around the world are the ones where people meet and mix and socialise.

BTW- I agree that it is beneficial to calmly discuss immigration and it is really necessary that both the pro- and anti- opinions are evaluated equally (assuming that they are not based on hyperbole or conjecture).

Excellent

dathi1

So it would seem that you're either you're blaming the foreigners for the sins of their employers, or you're blaming the foreigners because legitimate competition and capitalism are not socialist enough in nature to suit you.

No I'm not blaming "the foreigners" for anything. I'm blaming the ultra liberal economics open door immigration policy implemented on behalf of IBEC and big business. As for the socialist bit....no way..I'm not one of those The quota should have been capped. It works very well with the free market system in Singapore.

Amazing how they start off as people who've set up house and home and a car or two as benefits from a boom, and then they're just average Joe's struggling to get by.

To me average Joe is a 1 house 2.5 children mortgage payer. Yes he will probably have to compete with multi occupancy low rent single Slovenian guy eating out of Lidl performing cut throat priced work after hours on the black market.

Which is a bit silly, it's ludicrous to say that builders are hard-done-by in the current construction boom.

Absolutely no one is saying Builders are being hard done by if anything they are the ones to reap massive rewards on cheap basic pay immigrant labour. If you think this will have a knock on effect on house prices the your in a different Galaxy.

your friend was screwing his customers, charging ~€2000 for a job that a foreigner could do for €700, he just doesn't want to admit it

700 euro cash without Company Insurance, Guarantees, Employees PAYE etc means he hasn't a hope competing with the black market.

If there aren't jobs for them they will leave ... simply, problem solved ... and will everyone stop talking as if 80,000 a year is going to be repeated for the next 10 years, because that is nonsense. The system reaches equlibruim naturally.

Utter rubbish. If you move from Krakow on 40 euro a week to Ireland and you cant find legit work what do you do? Aha! 800+ per week cash in hand sounds very attractive.

It's bloody fantastic isn't it. Of course the truth is that most people in Ireland see the benefits and don't agree with your point of view.

Very wrong....I'm glad the majority of posts on this forum aren't reflected by public opinion...but there again the entertainment value would be lost on it. A recent IMS Sunday Tribune survey said that 80% of the population want immigration control across the board.

Can someone here argue why we shouldn't have a cap on EU accession immigration???

Quantum

dathi1 wrote:

Very wrong....I'm glad the majority of posts on this forum aren't reflected by public opinion...but there again the entertainment value would be lost on it. A recent IMS Sunday Tribune survey said that 80% of the population want immigration control across the board.

I don't buy that survey crap. Most people say yes to immigration controls because it IS a good thing and they mostly refer to non-EU people.

I agree with Immigration control or non EU nationals. But the vast majority of Irish poeple are happy with the EU situation and have no gripe with the EU immigrants who just come here for work. You are in the small minority who think the world is always about to fall in.

Can someone here argue why we shouldn't have a cap on EU accession immigration???

Because there is no problem that needs to be fixed, and there is no need for any cap. Levels are already settling and if jobs start to reduce then the vast majority will head home.

mike65

dathi1 wrote:

Can someone here argue why we shouldn't have a cap on EU accession immigration???

There are no caps in 3 counties. One of them, Sweden which is of course easily the closest to the accession states, has extremely low immigrant flow
with less than 5000 applications for work permits.

source

As said we don't need a cap not now, who knows maybe in the future but if the economy takes a nosedive then ppl will simply stop coming and those already here will either have to hope they still have a job or return home as the state wont pay benefits to many incomers under the "habitual residence test"

Mike.

simu

Wicknight wrote:

What do you suggest we do?

Uh, off the top of my head - make sure immigrants know what their rights are in terms of work etc to avoid worker exploitation, provide English classes for people who need them, arrange events where locals and new people can mingle to break down stereotypes etc.

pete

bonkey wrote:

...says this is based on some demographic projections which also suggest that people of Chinese origin may form the largest of the new ethnic groups.

Well...as long as we ensure China don't join the EU, this would seem to remove all relevance to EU-originating immigration.

Also...exactly how credible is research where you don't disclose the actual sources that it is based on?

jc

He didn't give a source for it back in February either

Recently, some very striking demographic analysis has been undertaken into Irish population trends. To cut a long story (or perhaps, a rather intricate analysis) short, it has been suggested that by the year 2050 Ireland could have a population of 20 million (rather than the current 5 million or so), and that fewer than 6 million of these would then be indigenous Irish. If the trends on which this analysis is based continue, then Ireland would in just over one generation have been transformed from having the genetically most homogeneous population in Europe to having one of the most diverse. Indeed, the ‘old’ Irish would not even make up the biggest population group: that would be the Chinese.

http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/cat_just_thinking.html

I'm dead curious to know what this is all based on now.