Roundabouts. The Ultimate Guide.

cormie

Hi,
I'd like to get the ins and outs of roundabouts sorted in one thread.

I know the rule is:

Taking 1st Exit: In left hand lane (if there is one), Indicate left before entering roundabout.

Taking 2nd Exit: In left hand lane (if there is one), indicate left when passing the first exit.

Taking 3rd+: In right hand lane (if there is one), indicate right before entering roundabout and indicate left once passed the last exit before your exit.


However, if you look at the attached image. It doesn't really make sense to go by these rules. For example, if coming from lane exit 1+2 and going to 7+8, it makes more sense to go to lane 1 and let cars in lane 2 go to 4+3 if they need to. Also, if coming from lane 9+10 and going to 4+3, it makes more sense to stay in 9 rather than 10 to let cars go to 11+12. According to the rules, you should only be in 9 if you're going to 7+8, which is back the way you came.

Oppinions?

RicardoSmith

Roundabout only work where they are big enough so you have plenty of time to change lanes before your exit. However they make them so small that the rules can't work. Then theres ones that change from 2 lanes to 3 as you drive around. How are you expected to deal with that.

Roundabouts in this country are a joke. As soon as you put lights on them, you might aswell have proper junction instead. However that would require some planning. They stick a roundabout where they are too lazy to plan the junction and its infrastructure properly.

gaui3d0pnbz86o

that is a complacated roundabout, does such a roundabout exist?

i think with that many roads maybe 3 lanes on the roundabout, ala the front of liffey valley, or walkinstown roundabout

Trotter

Coming onto the Mad Cow Roundabout from Newlands Cross and heading Southbound (Right) always freaks me out. Ya gotta move in a lane while going around it and that alone makes me cringe!!

cormie

Dustin Ugly Ghost wrote:

that is a complacated roundabout, does such a roundabout exist?

I've attached another image to the original post. It's an aerial view of the actual roundabout

RicardoSmith

Dustin Ugly Ghost wrote:

that is a complacated roundabout, does such a roundabout exist?

i think with that many roads maybe 3 lanes on the roundabout, ala the front of liffey valley, or walkinstown roundabout

You'll love this one
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm
http://www.armin-grewe.com/holiday/wiltshire/swindon-roundabout-press.htm

unkel

LOL hadn't seen wee pic of the magic roundabout for a while

Balfa

Here you go then.

If you're taking the first exit, indicate left before you get to the roundabout, in left lane, and keep indicating left until you're out.

If you're taking any exit (besides the first) that is DEAD AHEAD or left of dead ahead, then do not indicate before entering roundabout, keep in left lane, and indicate left IMMEDIATELY after passing the exit before your intended exit. (yes, that means that you must indicate left if you're coming from 6 and going straight on to 7. this is normal.)

If taking any other exit (to the right of DEAD AHEAD) indicate right before entering roundabout, stay in right lane, indicate left immediately AT the exit before your intended exit, to give you time to merge into the left lane, then continue to indicate left as you reach, and take, your exit. That's assuming there are multiple lanes on the roundabout (what a joke). If there aren't, just indicate left IMMEDIATELY after passing the exit before your intended exit, as normal.

If there are lights on the roundabout, if the roundabout is less than 100ft in diameter, if there are two or more lanes on it, etc. then write a letter to your TD IMMEDIATELY after getting home and taking a strong drink.

As for going from 10 to 3, this is correct. Considering there should only be one lane on a roundabout, that's okay. If you were to enter from 9, then someone at 2 might think you were going all the way round, and... kaboom.

Hope this Ultimate Guide to Roundabouts serves you well.

PS - that roundabout is Bray/Shankill/M11, innit?

cormie

Yep it's the Bray/Shankil roundabout.

Ok, so if I'm going from 1/2 to 7/8, I stay in right hand lane and indicate right (even though 7/8 is the second exit) and then indicate left once past the first exit.

So should you always indicate right and be in the right hand lane of your taking any exit right of dead ahead?

Thanks:)

cormie

Just another thing..

If Joe was in lane 2 going to exit 3/4 and Mikey was in lane 9 going to exit 3/4 (which he should be in lane 10 to do) and Mikey hit into you, who is at fault? Seeing that you always give right of way to cars coming from your right at a roundabout.

edmund_f

my head hurts

cormie

C'mon We should all know the answers before we get in our cars :rolleyes:

krinDar

cormie wrote:

Taking 2nd Exit: In left hand lane (if there is one), indicate left when passing the first exit.

If there is more than one lane on the entry and exit then you can use either
lane if you are going to the second exit. Which means ..

cormie wrote:

For example, if coming from lane exit 1+2 and going to 7+8, it makes more sense to go to lane 1 and let cars in lane 2 go to 4+3 if they need to.

You are allowed to use lane 1 going to 7/8 as you are allowed go
from 9 to 3/4:

http://www.iol.ie/~pt/roadrule.html

Balfa

cormie wrote:

Ok, so if I'm going from 1/2 to 7/8, I stay in right hand lane and indicate right (even though 7/8 is the second exit) and then indicate left once past the first exit.

Yes

So should you always indicate right and be in the right hand lane of your taking any exit right of dead ahead?

Yes

If Joe was in lane 2 going to exit 3/4 and Mikey was in lane 9 going to exit 3/4 (which he should be in lane 10 to do) and Mikey hit into you, who is at fault? Seeing that you always give right of way to cars coming from your right at a roundabout.

Joe would, all else being equal, be at fault, for the very reason you give.

krinDar wrote:

If there is more than one lane on the entry and exit then you can use either lane if you are going to the second exit. Which means .. You are allowed to use lane 1 going to 7/8 as you are allowed go
from 9 to 3/4

It doesn't make any sense to talk in terms of "second exit" etc. because a three-exit roundabout is very different to a seven-exit roundabout. Just use dead-ahead, and left or right of dead-ahead. As for going from 9 to 4, it's not as proper as going from 10 to 3, but if it's unavoidable, or if it improves the flow of traffic (think northbound at the laughlinstown end of the M11 during rush hour!) then it wouldn't matter (it's not illegal). But say for a driving test, i'd make sure to go from 10 to 3.

Balfa

cormie wrote:

Just another thing..

If Joe was in lane 2 going to exit 3/4 and Mikey was in lane 9 going to exit 3/4 (which he should be in lane 10 to do) and Mikey hit into you, who is at fault? Seeing that you always give right of way to cars coming from your right at a roundabout.

Actually, if joe was doing this, and mikey was doing that, and mikey hit me, then mikey'd be at fault, cos i certainly wouldn't be at fault!!

Alun

Balfa wrote:

As for going from 9 to 4, it's not as proper as going from 10 to 3, but if it's unavoidable, or if it improves the flow of traffic (think northbound at the laughlinstown end of the M11 during rush hour!) then it wouldn't matter (it's not illegal).

Actually, the road markings (albeit a little worn) leading onto that roundabout clearly indicate that you indeed can use both lanes to go straight ahead onto the N11, so there's nothing even vaguely illegal or even "improper" about that.

py2006

I think anybody over the age of 40 doesn't know how to use a roundabout properly. And women of course!!!!

Men over 40 seem to forget they have indicators and women seem to think they have right of way no matter what!

Alun

py2006 wrote:

I think anybody over the age of 40 doesn't know how to use a roundabout properly. And women of course!!!!

Men over 40 seem to forget they have indicators and women seem to think they have right of way no matter what!

Except men over 40 (like me!) who passed their test in a country that isn't called Ireland Oh yes, and my wife who did the same, of course!

py2006

Alun wrote:

Except men over 40 (like me!) who passed their test in a country that isn't called Ireland Oh yes, and my wife who did the same, of course!

Nice one! Maybe I mean 50!! haha!

My dad didn't even have to do a test! Back in the day of all things black and white he just walked in and bought a licence!!!

And because roundabouts are a new phenomenon he is exempt from the rules that go with them. Also he doesn't have to drive in any particlar lane. Usually driving between 2 is fine! :rolleyes:

krinDar

Balfa wrote:

It doesn't make any sense to talk in terms of "second exit" etc. because a three-exit roundabout is very different to a seven-exit roundabout. Just use dead-ahead, and left or right of dead-ahead.

Eh ? In any roundabout, the second exit is always the second exit.

Dead ahead is probably never the same on any two roundabouts and
two drivers might see dead ahead as being different exits on a large
roundabout. Dead ahead only works for perfect 4 exit roundabouts with
each exit at 90 degrees to each other.

What if you are approaching a three exit roundabout from say, 6 o'clock
and there are two other exits, at 2 o'clock and 4 o'clock - which one
is dead ahead ? Dead Ahead means to me that it is 12 o'clock which
means neither exit qualifies. Perhaps it is the exit closest to 12 - 2 o'clock ....

If you describe them as being the first exit or second exit then it is always
clear.

AMurphy

Nuke E'm I say.

DubTony

This roundabout is probably one of the simplest in the country.

Here's how it works.

Lane 1 goes to lane 8 and 12. Lane 2 goes to lane 3 only.
Lane 5 goes to lane 12 only. Lane 6 goes to lane 7 only.
Lane 9 goes to lane 4 and 8. Lane 10 goes to lanes 11 and 3.

This roundabout is not a dual carraigeway junction and so Cormie's lane numbers are actually just one lane split into 2 (except 1 and 2 - and 11 and 12) If this is a dual carraigeway roundabout it's slightly different in that lane 5 would also go to lane 8. If it was a 4 point roundabout it would be different again.

The easiest way to figure out this or any roundabout is to consider this. If you cross the lane of the car beside you, you're doing it wrong. Drive defensively and don't put yourself or anyone else at risk. My rule is simple. Stay left when taking exit 1 or 2. Stay right for anything after exit 2.

A word of warning when exiting. This applies mainly to a dual carraigeway roundabout. If you're taking the road to the right (270 degrees OR 3 o'clock) you should have entered the roundabout from the right side lane. You should stay in that lane until you have exited the roundabout and driven away from it before pulling into the left lane. Make sure the road is straight and you can check all mirrors before changing lanes. Not doing so is the cause of many minor accidents and near misses. If anyone needs further clarification of this, let me know and I'll tell you as soon as my headache is gone.

Tony

astec123

How about the magic round about in cork, aka the Kinsale road roundabout. from 3 lanes at one point to 2 lanes, and back to 3 again, but none merge into the other they just appear. add to that only 1/2 of the roundabout being signalised and you have the making of hell, either have it all signalised or not at all.

Balfa

krinDar wrote:

What if you are approaching a three exit roundabout from say, 6 o'clock and there are two other exits, at 2 o'clock and 4 o'clock - which one is dead ahead ? Dead Ahead means to me that it is 12 o'clock which means neither exit qualifies. Perhaps it is the exit closest to 12 - 2 o'clock ....

Try actually reading my post :rolleyes: I didn't say that there must be a dead ahead exit on every roundabout. 2 o'clock exit is the first exit, indicate left, and 4 o'clock exit is right of dead ahead, so indicate right. where do my instructions fail?

If you describe them as being the first exit or second exit then it is always clear.

Take three hypothetical roundabouts. Second exit on each roundabout is 9, 12 and 3 o'clock, respectively. So you reckon you should just call them all second exit? That's not what i'd call "always clear". According to you,

If there is more than one lane on the entry and exit then you can use either lane if you are going to the second exit.

on a 6 exit roundabout, you can use the right lane if exiting at the second exit (say, 10 o'clock). That'll fail anyone's test, mate.


Alun, I just meant it's not as "proper" to use the outside lane in that it's the overtaking lane and, where possible, you should be in the inside lane. But i get your point

Balfa

AMurphy wrote:

Nuke E'm I say.

Damn right Especially for the super-high volume and the super-low volume ones.

M50 vs M1. What on earth were they thinking? Even on a motorway to motorway junction, they're still too stingey to put a proper cloverleaf or trumpet.

And the one at Bray DART station. My god, a roundabout at a T-junction, where the minor street is one-way away from the roundabout! And the major street is one-way much of the time, due to the level crossing being closed! Bray urban planners will be first against the wall.

I'd love to see average delay statistics of roundabout vs lights vs four-way stop vs proper limited-access junction for different traffic volumes.

krinDar

Balfa wrote:

Try actually reading my post :rolleyes:

I did ... it seems that you didn't understand my reply.

balfa wrote:

2 o'clock exit is the first exit, indicate left, and 4 o'clock exit is right of dead ahead, so indicate right. where do my instructions fail?

They fail there - as the 4 o'clock exit is the second exit, you approach
in the left hand lane, and do not indicate until you have passed the
first exit. You treat it the same _as if_ it was straight ahead.

balfa wrote:

Take three hypothetical roundabouts. Second exit on each roundabout is 9, 12 and 3 o'clock, respectively. So you reckon you should just call them all second exit? That's not what i'd call "always clear".

How is it not clear ? You just described them all as the second exit
yourself !

balfa wrote:

According to you,on a 6 exit roundabout, you can use the right lane if exiting at the second exit (say, 10 o'clock).

That is my interpretation of the Rules of the Road.

You _can_ do it, but I don't think I would. But, if there was a third exit
at 11 o'clock, I would have to use the right lane.

AMurphy

astec123 wrote:

How about the magic round about in cork, aka the Kinsale road roundabout. from 3 lanes at one point to 2 lanes, and back to 3 again, but none merge into the other they just appear. add to that only 1/2 of the roundabout being signalised and you have the making of hell, either have it all signalised or not at all.

Signals on a RA are a definite signal that RA are a failure. A bit like having a an automatic barriar AND railway gate at the same time, because nobody sees or observes the barriar.

MercMad

My dad didn't even have to do a test! Back in the day of all things black and white he just walked in and bought a licence!!!

And because roundabouts are a new phenomenon he is exempt from the rules that go with them. Also he doesn't have to drive in any particlar lane. Usually driving between 2 is fine!

.......you must be my long lost brother !!

RicardoSmith

They need to start showing adverts on the TV showing people how to drive. Theres too much confusion out there.

AMurphy

DubTony wrote:

.......
The easiest way to figure out this or any roundabout is to consider this. If you cross the lane of the car beside you, you're doing it wrong. Drive defensively and don't put yourself or anyone else at risk. My rule is simple. Stay left when taking exit 1 or 2. Stay right for anything after exit 2.
......

Tony

by definition, this means you ARE crossing the path of some car some time and vice versa.
Because I see no possible way that you can go from the edge to the center and back to the edge again in a RA of concentric circles, or even involutes, without crossing over lanes. even if you conside a single circular lane RA, you are cutting through the paths of all the feeder lanes.

Indicators are a waste of time on a RA, there is not engough time for the std 3 blinks in any direction, before you are switching directions.. unless trafffic is stalled.
Only solution is ride the 3 pedals simultaneously, high revs, low gear and the spare foot hovering over the clutch & brake.

If you are

DubTony

AMurphy wrote:

by definition, this means you ARE crossing the path of some car some time and vice versa.
Because I see no possible way that you can go from the edge to the center and back to the edge again in a RA of concentric circles, or even involutes, without crossing over lanes. even if you conside a single circular lane RA, you are cutting through the paths of all the feeder lanes.

The point I made is that you should never cross the lane of the car beside you. That's a car that would be pulling away from the same junction that you're entering the roundabout from. Obviously you'll cross the lanes of other roads entering the roundabout. That's a no-brainer.

AMurphy wrote:

Indicators are a waste of time on a RA, there is not engough time for the std 3 blinks in any direction, before you are switching directions.. unless trafffic is stalled.

That's nonsensical. You should indicate to exit the roundabout as you pass the previous exit. It's this attitude that keeps everyone guessing. "There isn't enough time, so I won't bother"
Even one blink of an indicator can alert others that you're going to do something.