Changing down when coming to a halt

vector

For the actual driving test...

Lets say you're going along in fourth gear and you see a red light/stop sign, ahead so you begin to slow from 50kmph to 0

Do you just slow down in fourth gear, and stop in fourth gear
OR
Do you change down gears 4>3>2>1 as you are slowing

Squirrel

Brake through the gears, you have more control of engine speed that way

thebutlerdidit

I believe that once you see the light change you should stop accelerating and change down a gear before you ever touch the brake, move down through the gears and gently begin to apply pressure to the brake. Don't forget to check your rearview mirror before you brake (ALWAYS!) It kind of depends on how much time you have, maybe from forth to second sometimes. I used to be in second when i would begin to clutch it ( the car would be not be going at any speed when I would do ths though.) Coasting,(thats having your foot on the clutch will the car) means that you have much less control over the vehicle, so try to avoid, it can become a bad habit, and one that you would fail your test over. Are you just beginning to drive or just curious?

Seth Brundle

1. You never go into 1st unless the car is stopped!
2. you should allow the car to slow down without using the brakes. This will involve gear changes rather than just cruising to a halt. There are two reasons I can see for this:-
firstly, slowing in 4th will mean that sooner or later the engine will not be able to drive the car properly and will bunnyhop. Secondly, for whatever reason, you may suddenly need to take evasive action or move away quickly. If you are doing 20kmph (for example) in 4th then you will not manage to move off as quickly as if you were in the most appropriate gear.

Anyway, to cut my waffle short, you should always be in an appropriate gear for the current conditions.

PhoenixRising

For the test always stop in 2nd or 3rd. Many people think that you have to cycle through the gears all the way to second but that's not the case. Stopping in 3rd is perfectly acceptable. It's difficult to stop in 4th without being done for 'coasting'.

Renegade_Archer

My instructor always said stop in 2nd. Never stop in 1st.



What I was told anyway.




Regards


Ewan

vector

>you should allow the car to slow down without using the brakes

sounds cool, but surely that level of skill is reserved for those who change gear without using the clutch

Seth Brundle

vector wrote:

>you should allow the car to slow down without using the brakes

sounds cool, but surely that level of skill is reserved for those who change gear without using the clutch

I don't see how as it has nothing to do with clutchless gearchanges!
You slow down as much as you can using the engine and gearbox and then stop with your brakes. Don't drive unnecessarily for several hundred feet with your foot on the brakes (like many Irish drivers)

vector

>I don't see how as it has nothing to do with clutchless gearchanges!

I was saying that
Both are impressive, but unnecessary
(well unless the clutch aor brakes stop working)

I'll give it a try though.

hoody

yer all wrong! .. at least from what i was told during a lesson on saturday.
say for a left / right hand junction - the instructor told me you:

1) check mirrors
2) indicate
3) brake gradually, then harder {still in 4th, btw}
4) once the power drops enough, you change from 4th down to 2nd without going to third at all
5) lift off clutch slowly, keeping your foot a little on the brake as you take the turn, then
6) lift off brake, drive on

He told me i've been coasting since i started driving (last Aug) and I'm currently trying to correct is which is v. hard, and its one habit i wish i'd never picked up. Have test in two weeks, and seriously think that coasting will fail it for me

Seth Brundle

Im not sure what you are referring to with 'both'.
All Im saying is to slow down using gearchanges (as much as you can ) to 2nd. Then you should apply the brakes to stop. There shouldn't be any problem or skill involved if you are driving appropriatley and being observant!

RicardoSmith

vector wrote:

>you should allow the car to slow down without using the brakes

sounds cool, but surely that level of skill is reserved for those who change gear without using the clutch

Nope. Its the proper technique. I'm guessing its part of the test. Anyone know? As Squirrel said "you have more control of engine speed" and thus the car. As an aside on descending a long hill it really saves your brakes. Sign of a good driver is someone who doesn't need to use the brakes that much. Letting the car slow down naturally. Drivers with a bad technique tend to accelerate hard, then brake hard constantly.

seamus

hoody wrote:

yer all wrong! .. at least from what i was told during a lesson on saturday.
say for a left / right hand junction - the instructor told me you:

1) check mirrors
2) indicate
3) brake gradually, then harder {still in 4th, btw}
4) once the power drops enough, you change from 4th down to 2nd without going to third at all
5) lift off clutch slowly, keeping your foot a little on the brake as you take the turn, then
6) lift off brake, drive on

He told me i've been coasting since i started driving (last Aug) and I'm currently trying to correct is which is v. hard, and its one habit i wish i'd never picked up. Have test in two weeks, and seriously think that coasting will fail it for me

Completely wrong. For the purposes of the test, the tester might not notice you skipping a gear, but if they do, it's usually marked down as improper use of the controls.

Everything about driving revolves around anticipation. You must anticipate when you will need to stop, and adjust your speed accordingly. "Coasting" is driving along with the clutch fully depressed. It's a common habit of learners who aren't all that confident with clutch braking and rely solely on the footbrake to slow down.

If you're finding that you don't have the time to switch down between the gears when approaching a junction, then you're driving too fast or (more likely) leaving it too late to begin slowing down. Slowing down for a junction should be very like an aircraft approaching a landing - I've never been on a aircraft that speed up to the runway, then at the last minute cuts the throttle and drps the flaps to reduce its speed. No, it's a gradual, comfortable, controlled reduction in speed.

fletch

seamus wrote:

Completely wrong. For the purposes of the test, the tester might not notice you skipping a gear, but if they do, it's usually marked down as improper use of the controls.

I did the Hibernian Ignition course & when I was coming up to a roundabout in 4th gear...as I got quite close to the roundabout, I changed down to 2nd gear (Note: I was going slow enough to warrant 2nd gear, i.e. the engine didn't roar or car didn't jump). The examiner said "Well Done, you used the correct gears for the situation".
I know my mother still goes down the gears when coming to a stop. I think that's only a practice that was once necessary to assist cars with lesser brakes. Modern cars with good brakes with vented disc brakes & the like are more than capable of stopping with their brakes alone. Admittedly changing down the gears will save the wear on your brakes over time.

Balfa

kbannon wrote:

firstly, slowing in 4th will mean that sooner or later the engine will not be able to drive the car properly and will bunnyhop.

No, it won't bunnyhop, it'll just stall as the engine reaches sub-idle speeds.

But yeah, always change down from 4th to 3rd and then to 2nd when stopping. You can stop in 3rd, but if your gearchange process is fluid, there's no reason why you shouldn't get it into 2nd before stopping. I would also use the foot brake to slow down, using only very minor engine braking, espcially for your test.

By the way, fletch's bit about "a practice that was once necessary to assist cars with lesser brakes" is complete noodle. Cover your ears from such nonsense.

And I totally agree with Ricardo about smooth acceleration and limited braking being a sign of good technique. But don't you go worrying about that sort of stuff until after your test

fletch

Balfa wrote:

By the way, fletch's bit about "a practice that was once necessary to assist cars with lesser brakes" is complete noodle. Cover your ears from such nonsense.

Well I suppose I ain't old enough to have driven cars in the 70's/80's, only going on what my Dad told me.

Padraig Mor

seamus wrote:

Completely wrong. For the purposes of the test, the tester might not notice you skipping a gear, but if they do, it's usually marked down as improper use of the controls.

.

Been a while since I had a lesson, but when I got them I specifically asked the instructor about cycling down through the gears to stop. He was adamant that you brake to the appropriate speed and then select gear, i.e. 5th or 4th

---

> 2nd. Perhaps both techniques are 'correct'? It really would help if those idiots in the Dept of Environment would actually 'tell' people the 'correct' way to drive, i.e. what they expect in tests, instead of relying on rumour which may or may not be correct.

seamus

Padraig Mor wrote:

Been a while since I had a lesson, but when I got them I specifically asked the instructor about cycling down through the gears to stop. He was adamant that you brake to the appropriate speed and then select gear, i.e. 5th or 4th

---

> 2nd. Perhaps both techniques are 'correct'? It really would help if those idiots in the Dept of Environment would actually 'tell' people the 'correct' way to drive, i.e. what they expect in tests, instead of relying on rumour which may or may not be correct.

Aye. I have heard of a lot of people who've had instructors that tell one or the other as the "only way" to do it.
Twould seem to me that skipping gears requires a lot more effort, and would result in much less smooth drive than a controlled shift through each gear.

unkel

Balfa wrote:

By the way, fletch's bit about "a practice that was once necessary to assist cars with lesser brakes" is complete noodle. Cover your ears from such nonsense

No it isn't! It wasn't that long ago that it was vital to let the engine do most of the braking while descending in mountainous areas to avoid overheating of the brakes. It is still a good practice...

Praetorian

Block changing down is perfectly legal and is recommended by good instructors when the situation is right.

RicardoSmith

Its best practise. What else do you need to know?

vector

Padraig Mor wrote:

...It really would help if those idiots in the Dept of Environment would actually 'tell' people the 'correct' way to drive, i.e. what they expect in tests, instead of relying on rumour which may or may not be correct.

Excellent point, the dept of the env should publish a book (like the theory question book) with chapters about driving, of course that would take about 18 months to organise and it would be tendered to a private sector profiteering venture* which would sell the book for just that bit too high like e45

*possibly based in the UK with a smarmy name like "Driveria IRL Ltd"

BrianD3

For the d.test I was always taught to stop in 2nd and not to block change (eg 4th to 2nd) unless an "unexpected" situation occured. Eg if you're going along in 4th and without warning someone zooms out in front of you causing you to brake hard to a speed which is inappropriate for 3rd gear but approriate for 2nd.

But I have heard some instructors advising to stop in 3rd. I suppose it can depend on the car and gearing. Some cars may be perfectly happy to pootle along at 10 mph in 3rd gear.

In normal driving I don't really downchange to slow the car however I do use the gears to regulate my speed eg if you need to slow down for a bend and lift off early and are in the correct gear, the engine braking caused by the wheels having to turn the engine can slow the car enough for the bend and you don't need to change down, clutch or brake, just steer and accelerate away. Driving like this is one reason why I'm probably going to get 90k miles out of my front brake pads.

jayok

Page 24 of the Advanced Driving Instructors Manual.

"Many drivers go down through the gears in sequence during braking for a low-speed hazard such as a junction, roundabout or sharp corner, but this is not the way an advanced driver slows down.

Long ago, when brakes were far less efficient, 'sequential downchanging' provided a useful engine-braking effect, but slowing down in a modern car should be achieved with brakes alone, expect when descending a steep hill, on icy surfaces, or in an emergency caused by brake failure."

It goes on

"Changing gear while braking should be, under normal circumstances avoided."

With regard to coasting if you need to stop the car in fifth, then do so! It gives the specifc example

"... Imagine you are travelling.. in fifth gear.. at 40mph.. and the traffic lights turn red. You slow down your car on the brakes alone, but there comes a point where the engine starts to labour. This is the moment when you de-clutch [put your foot on the clutch], in order to prevent the engine straining the transmission. Normally it is a rule of advanced driving that you should not 'coast'... but in this case you have to break the rule briefly so that you can come to a halt without stalling the engine."

There you have it. In practise you will need to be very familar with the machine you are driving to ensure that the above is as smooth as possible, but you should aim for this.

I should add Advanced driving teaches you about taking information, using the information and passing information to other drivers. But simply slowing down on the gears you are not informing other drivers that you are slowing down. By using the brakes, you activate your brake lights, telling everyone that you are stopping. That's their purpose.

I hope this clears it!

Running Bing

I'm taking lessons at the minute in a ford fiesta and practise in a fiat punto and neither has any problems stopping in 4th. I simply gradually brake it down and when the car stops change into 1st. Thats the way I was thought to do it anyway.

jayok

Babybing wrote:

I'm taking lessons at the minute in a ford fiesta and practise in a fiat punto and neither has any problems stopping in 4th. I simply gradually brake it down and when the car stops change into 1st. Thats the way I was thought to do it anyway.

And it is 100% correct - don't let anyone tell you other wise.

BTW I forgot to mention in my previous post. Acceleration and deceleration are diferent things with regard to changes. if while stopping you wish to advance again, you only move the car from the gear it is currently in, to the correct gear to move off in. i.e. if you are in 4th approaching a 90 deg left turn brake to the speed you need to be at to take the turn, change directly from 4th to 2nd, engage the clutch and drive the car around the bend.

Bringing down through the gears, so that you are ready to take-off, is not a correct driving style.

seamus

jayok wrote:

And it is 100% correct - don't let anyone tell you other wise.

BTW I forgot to mention in my previous post. Acceleration and deceleration are diferent things with regard to changes. if while stopping you wish to advance again, you only move the car from the gear it is currently in, to the correct gear to move off in. i.e. if you are in 4th approaching a 90 deg left turn brake to the speed you need to be at to take the turn, change directly from 4th to 2nd, engage the clutch and drive the car around the bend.

Bringing down through the gears, so that you are ready to take-off, is not a correct driving style.

(whoops, I edited your post instead of replying. Lucky I saved it! )

That manouver is advanced. I wouldn't teach it to learners starting out. I'm coming from a motorbike biase, where the above manouver would be better off taught to riders familiar with their machine - but there's no reason why the same rule can't apply to other vehicles. Leave it just that little bit too late to engage the clutch, or to begin braking, and it's all too easy to overshoot the corner or lose traction, particularly in a rear-wheel vehicle.

jayok

(Good thing, I don't think I would have re-typed it )

I appreciate that this manouver is explained for the advanced drivers, but it is based on a solid technique. It does take practice, any quite a bit of it, but once mastered the style looks very competent and controlled. I would think that even beginning drivers could master this quickly if instructed.

For anyone stuggling with this, bear in mind that, if I drive a car that it not my own (e.g. hire one for the weekend) it takes a few go, before I find the labour point, etc. What I am saying is that stick with it and you'll find it.

jozi

Just my 2 cents.....

When i was learning i was told to change down as i slowed the car (using brakes) and not to coast. Also not to stop in first, always second.

I did once ask the instructor could you change from 4 ---> 2 you can as long as you can show your in control of the car but generally you would cycle down trough each gear and stop in 2.

Maybe sending this of topic but is it not in anyway bad for the engine/clutch/gearbox to change down trough/skipping gears? I mean going from 4 -> 2 can give of a roar from the engine if done at to high a speed.

Jozi

BrianD3

It's all very well talking about advanced driving techniques but I believe the OP is asking the correct technique for passing the standard driving test. It's no good being an advanced driver and stopping in 4th or 5th if the DOE driving examiners are looking for drivers to go down through the gears and stop in 2nd. As I said, the way I was taught (by ISM) for my test was to go down through the gears. The problem with stopping in a high gear is that there's a tendancy to coast more (as you must dip the clutch at a higher speed to avoid stalling/labouring) To counteract this you brake harder so that the car stops almost instantly when you dip the clutch, reducing coasting. I can't see the examiners being too impressed with this braking style and they *definitely* won't be impressed if you coast, in fact you'll fail instantly.

declanoneill

When I was taught to drive (which was just a few months ago) I was taught that you didn't need to shift down gears when stopping. I didn't do it in my test and passed. IMO it makes more sence that the examiner would want you to use the brakes (ans thus brake lights) to warn other cars you're slowing down/stopping.