Corolla 1.4 VVTI vs. Bog Standard Civic

Dagon

A friend of mine recently sold his 98 Honda Civic 1.4i to buy a 00 Corolla 1.4 with a VVTI engine. He likes his new car and it has much better fuel economy than the Civic, but he finds it to be less lively and not as fast as the Civic, with less torque and acceleration.

How is this possible, given that the VVTI engines are supposed to be Toyota's answer to the VTEC? If what he says is true, then a VVTI Corolla is not in the same boat as a VTEC Civic for acceleration or torque.

CJhaughey

You have answered your own question.
The Honda is obviously in a higher state of tune that's why it is faster and has better acceleration, The Toyota is probably tuned for economy. All depends on the Cam profiles the Vtec probably has a wilder cam when it moves across at higher revs.

30-6shooter

Why are you comparing it to a vtec engine? Theres no such thing as a 1.4vtec engine! Or is there

RicardoSmith

Its possible because all cars/engines are different. Why is this unusual?

Take a 1.0 Micra then a 1.0 Polo. The Polo feels like a truck in comparision, heavy and slow.

Whats does this prove.

Nothing.

CJhaughey

Apparently there is
VTec and VVTi are essentially the same thing: variable valve timing. At a predetermined rev point the cam shifts and allows a different profile Cam to work on the valves, allowing the car to be drivable at normal speeds (idling in traffic) and still give useful peformance at higher revs.
best of both worlds.

Dagon

I was just under the impression that a VVTI engine would give much improved performance, in the same was that the VTEC does. So, for instance, a 1.6 VVTI Corolla and a 1.6 VTEC Civic should not be *that* awfully different in terms of performance (both excellent Jap cars with great engines), but it seems they are quite different.

bazz26

You maybe comparing apples with pears here.

The VVTi engines are designed specifically for economy where as the Honda VTEC is designed for performance. By the way the basic Civic 1.4 is a non VTEC engine.

Just to add my father had a 00 Corolla 1.4 VVTi and traded it for a 03 Civic 1.4 S. The Civic is the non VTEC type. Both himself and I find that the Civic is not as lively in the lower rev band as the Corolla was but mpg is roughly the same from both cars.

Delta_ie

toyota's VVTi is not the same as Honda's VTEC, I think it only uses part of the vtec technology to give better economy. The toyota's equivalent to vtec is called VVTLi.

VVTi only changes cam timing on rpm changeover, but vtec also changes the valve duration and lift aswell.

bazz26

Yes the VVTi-L is in the Celica and Corolla T-Sport models. Both use the same 1.8 engine with around 192bhp.

RicardoSmith

Are the cars the same weight? Are they geared the same? Are the power & torque outputs similar throughout the rev range? Wheel size? Lots of differences that would account for the difference.

I would argue that VTEC and VVTI are both engined to give you performance AND economy. The ojective is not solely performance. But performance is the primary objective. The main aim is improved driveability or torque. But You have benefit of improved fuel economy aswell. Theres the VTEC-E variant which is optimised for fuel economy.

Dagon

bazz26 wrote:

By the way the basic Civic 1.4 is a non VTEC engine.

Yeah, that's why I was surprised when my mate found the basic 1.4 to be a higher performance car than the Corolla 1.4 VVTI.

As someone else said, one would associate VVTI with high performance AND economy, not just economy.

RicardoSmith

Dagon wrote:

Yeah, that's why I was surprised when my mate found the basic 1.4 to be a higher performance car than the Corolla 1.4 VVTI.

As someone else said, one would associate VVTI with high performance AND economy, not just economy.

Do you have the model numbers for these engines so we can compare them.

http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/previous04.html

unkel

The Corolla has a higher top speed but the Civic 1.4S is a second quicker to 100km/h (11 vs 12 seconds). The standard Civic 1.4 takes a lethargic 14 seconds - slower than a one liter Yaris :eek:

Bogger77

I had a 3 door 00 Corolla, it's a fairly nippy car. Very ecomonical. It's acceleration was well up there, beat any 1.4 or 1.5 petrol I've driven. Compared to a bog standard civic, there's no comparision as unkel says. Non Vetec Civic's are not in the same class.

Automan

Bogger77 wrote:

I had a 3 door 00 Corolla, it's a fairly nippy car. Very ecomonical. It's acceleration was well up there, beat any 1.4 or 1.5 petrol I've driven. Compared to a bog standard civic, there's no comparision as unkel says. Non Vetec Civic's are not in the same class.

But then and again Vtec civics just p1ss all over them with there excellent handling and grip and brilliant engines.

Bogger77

Automan wrote:

But then and again Vtec civics just p1ss all over them with there excellent handling and grip and brilliant engines.

Not too sure about the handling, I've driven mine fairly hard over dificult terain, mountain and back roads of cork, galway, offaly and laois. I've yet to experience a standard FWD family un-modified car that's as stable as it. And for the price, my 00 corolla cost 16K punts in 2000, my current 02 car cost 18K euro brand new. And of course, is in the same insurance class as a boring family car.
How much does a VTEC Honda cost? How much insurance loading? Chances of it being nicked or damaged by thieves ? How much more likely is the driver to be stopped by the cops, and dealt more harshly for minor offences than a standard boring car?

You're not comparing like with like.

Dagon

unkel wrote:

the Civic 1.4S is a second quicker to 100km/h (11 vs 12 seconds). The standard Civic 1.4 takes a lethargic 14 seconds - slower than a one liter Yaris :eek:

Is the 1.4i better than the standard Civic? And what is the difference between 1.4i and 1.4S ?

Automan

Bogger77 wrote:

Not too sure about the handling, I've driven mine fairly hard over dificult terain, mountain and back roads of cork, galway, offaly and laois. I've yet to experience a standard FWD family un-modified car that's as stable as it. And for the price, my 00 corolla cost 16K punts in 2000, my current 02 car cost 18K euro brand new. And of course, is in the same insurance class as a boring family car.
How much does a VTEC Honda cost? How much insurance loading? Chances of it being nicked or damaged by thieves ? How much more likely is the driver to be stopped by the cops, and dealt more harshly for minor offences than a standard boring car?

You're not comparing like with like.

You want to compare like with like go to this web site and compare the bog standard new Honda civic with the bog standard new Toyota corolla. As you will see the civic comes out on top for Performance and ride and handling and it also has better fuel economy. All this with out any Vtec!!!!


www.whatcar.com

jayok

If you want to learn about the different between VVT and VTEC:

http://www.billzilla.org/vvtvtec.htm

Basically the VTEC system is far more sophisticated than VVT and delivery far better control of the power output.

With regard to the 98 Civic and comparing to the Corolla or even the new Civic, that generation of Civic had double-wishbone suspension front and rear give absolutely excellant handling conditions by ensure maxmimum about of rubber on the road in all twists and turns. This compares to the newer Civics and Corolla which have McPhearson struts, the handling is not as good. However Honda did setup the new Civic's suspension to try and compete with the old Civic.

The difference between the 1.4i and 1.4iS is that the S has a/c. When on a/c will sap power from the engine and can make a small engine noticably slower.

With regard to the 1.4i (non VTEC) and the 1.4i VVT, I don't have the specs to hand, but the VVT should deliver more torque and power since it can control the timing. However depending on its configuration, it may not be as economical as the non-VTEC 1.4i! Most manufacturers will try to balance both power and economy, but some engines are simply tuned for economy and this is the case with the 1.4 Civic.

With regard to 0-100km/hr, this depends on so many other elements beyond the engine, weight, engine load, tyre size, etc. So it is difficult to ask compare just the engines in each car alone.

Don't know about prices but according to the websites, the basic 3dr 1.4 Corolla is €19,300 versus the €18,155 Civic. I assume there's a specification difference though.

But for me, Corolla or Civic? Oh it just has to be a Civic, I'm not dead yet!

Bogger77

Silly me, those Toyota prices are, of course, with sun roof and some accessories.

Bogger77

Question for the OP: your mates corolla, does he know what month it was first registered in, as they're were some non VVTi Corollas on sale until after March for the 4 doors, and into august for the 3 door hatch version.

Dagon

Bogger, it's definitely VVTI 1.4 Corolla, it says it on the engine. The reason I'll believe him about the torque and performance is because he's a mechanic (albeit a trainee one!) and has driven quite a few cars. Just for those who are confised with all the i's and s's and vtecs, the original argument is:
Corolla 1.4 VVTI VS. Honda Civic 1.4i
Friend says: Civic has better performance

So far, evidence is suggesting that my friend is wrong on this one! Must have a chat to him about it...

jayok

Ok, to be clear

02 1.4 VVTi Corolla vs 1998 Civic 1.4, the Civic will be quicker

02 1.4 VVTi Corolla vs 2002 Civic 1.4iS the Corolla will be quicker

So your mate is right.

Dagon

Ok, or also:



00 1.4 VVTi Corolla vs 1998 Civic 1.4i - the Civic will be quicker

00 1.4 VVTi Corolla vs 2002 Civic 1.4iS - the Corolla will be quicker


The above is also true, yes?

jayok

Also correct.

Dagon

Glad that's settled!

I'm continually amazed at the Honda build quality and engine on a simple 1.4 Civic. I recently drove a 1.6L 05 Skoda Octavia for about 80 miles, and I have to say that yes, it was very smooth, lots of bells and whistles, very comfy and some very impressive electronics... but for driving pleasure, compared to the Civic, it's incredibly boring to drive. It feels like you're piloting an airplane, which some people love. But I want to feel the road, feel the bends, feel the acceleration. The Civic has super handling considering for a car in it's class.

By the way, I love Corollas too, but right now I can see why so many people are drooling over their Hondas!