CL Final - AC Milan vs. Liverpool (scores)

cgf

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

I think that is two major upsets in games in two matches I've watched. united not winning when they deserved, and Liverpool winning when they didnt really.

I hope I do not see a rake of big headed liverpool fans come on here gloating how they beat AC, they didnt really, for a number of reasons.

Liverpool beating to a pulp first half, absolutly torn apart by AC. It could and should have been about 5-0.
Brining on Hamann was a good idea as it really took Kaka out of the game second half. Baros again had a misrable game and will be walking out during summer i suspect.On the matter, Cisse is not much better, I have not seen anything from him this year to show his worth, broken leg or not, before he broke it, and tonight, he is just another Baros, head down and run.

Liverpool made a nice first goal, it was a good one. Second goal was very lucky with Dida making a howler.But the peno, o my lord the peno. The one thing I didnt hear on the biased sky sports? Dive. I have watched it over and over and over again and it is clearly a dive, minimal contact, and hes down. The linesman was signalling for a dive and all, was a pure dive. I was happy to see it saved but then the turn in, well it was harsh on AC.

But AC pressed on and continued to dominate the match as they did the whole way through.

Dudek did make two fantastic saves, but I think it was more down to Schevys lack of finishing on the second.

And the penos. That was possibly the worst display of penatly taking ever. Summed up by Risse, probably one of the most beautfiul strikers of a ball in the world, wimping his peno. But I couldnt help screaming at my TV to see the distance Dudek came of his line to save his peno. How could the ref not spot that seriously? That was dida all over again.

Well done to Liverpool, I guess for scoring more penos, but that is all they really did. The biased UK TV talked about british battling and liverpool spirit but it was clearly AC and referee errors that handed them that trophy.

And I really hope Everton still get to enter the champions league, cause we can all agree if it comes down to it the places are deserved on League perfomane which liverpool were woffle. Which gives this victory and even stronger chance of luck.

Great match, dissapointing finish.

Begrudging $hite,

"Liverpool didn't really beat Milan" - ok, live in your own Walter Mitty world.

Dcully

LMAO WHATEVER makes you feel better [DM]-TheDOC-
What a pile of poo,
Oh did i mention, LIVERPOOL - CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE.

ianomccabe

i think in all my time on boards that this has to go down as the funniest quote of all time.

"Liverpool didn't really beat Milan"



Note the five smiles. One for each Euorpean cup

zAbbo

Dont worry about [DM]-TheDOC- he's just a random CS noobtard.

My fave bit is

Well done to Liverpool, I guess for scoring more penos, but that is all they really did

hahahaha, head so far up his own ass

sharkman

bazH I love this :

No small toffees for feast tonight
Kopites party with Turkish delight
Jose, Sir Alex... London press
All choking on sweet success
Money, not love, is your drive
But tell us... Can you count to five

Take it

and the doc says hes a neutral hahahahahaha so funny

Shred

See this :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/funny_old_game/4587981.stm

redspider

Draupnir wrote:

doesnt make any odds. all the stats in the world arent relevant to the fact the Cup is in Liverpool.

The stats are relevant as they give an objective measurement of what went on in the game, although they are by no means 100% accurate as a reflection of the game. I am the first person to poke holes in stats. People (and posters) use them and abuse them all the time, such as politicans (eg: "40% of people are better off"!), but statistics/measurements when used well are useful to provide some objectivity of the game. Managers are using technology to do so as well, such as Wenger, Benitez, Mourinho and Ferguson. They look at stats.

When Liverpool got back to 3-3, at about the 60-min point, the total numbers of shots on target and shots off target for both teams was more or less equal. So, for those posters that are saying that Milan should have been 5 or 6 -0 up, they are clearly biased, as what they should be saying is that at the 60-min mark, the scoreline (3-3) reflected the dominance and play of both teams. If they did think that Milan should have been 5-0 up, then they should have also stated that at the 60-min mark, it should have been 5-5.

Of course, most people, Liverpool followers, and some of the anti-Liverpool posters on this thread, look at the same events yet see them in a different light. People tend to be biased one way or the other to an event and very few fans I meet are good at objective analysis. In fact, most just have a vague impression of a game, not a real understanding. Some posters on boards.ie are objective though but I would like to see more of that. I try to be objective as much as possible.

Redspider

redspider

Here are some observations on the Liverpool players:

Dudek – I thought he was having a dodgy game in general, although he made a couple of good saves, from the free-kick and the one that everyone remembers from Shevchenko near the end, but by the time the penalties came around, he seemed to be in a very good mood, no tension, no pressure, he seemed very relaxed considering the situation.

Finnan – had a low-profile game as he only played the first half, but did his job quite well, although didnt get forward (Maldini may be a factor there). I didnt think he was injured going off, I think Benitez decided to sacrifice him in the changed formation, and have Riise and Garcia as "wing-backs". FC (Fouls Committed)-1, FS (Fouls Suffered)-1

Carragher – MotM for me due to his saving tackles, shear effort through the pain barrier and inspiration and motivation. Good in the 1st half, and excellent throughout, especially when playing in a back 3 formation. FC-2

Hyppia – was solid, and had one free header effort on target. Did very well for a slow guy when they switched to a back 3 formation. FC-2

Traore – played his usual game, all legs, did his job and cleared an important one off the line. Also, raised his game for when they played 3 at the back. FC-4

Baros – Caught offside twice, committed a colossal 7 fouls, but was instrumental with his lay-off for the 3rd goal penalty. I thought that he had a slightly better game than Cisse. I would like to see him stay and improve his game. 3 offsides.

Riise – only one shot on target, quieter than usual, did his defending job reasonably well though, didn’t commit any fouls in the match. Missed a penalty but luckily that didn’t matter in the end, although it put Liverpool under some pressure for a minute. Didn’t get that many crosses in but got the one for Gerrard to head the all important 1st goal of the comeback.

Kewell – well, need I say anything about him. I couldn’t understand why he was on in the first place and still cant. I definitely fault Benitez for a poor decision with that. Thank *hrist that he got injured. I think he should be sold. FS-2 (thank you!)

Gerrard – was disappointing at times in the 1st half, failed with Alonso to pick up Kaka, but got the bit between his teeth for the 2nd half when there was nothing to lose. He did Trojan left back play as well in extra time, excellent and kept Serginho quiet(er). Very close to MotM for me. 1 shot wide, 1 goal, FS-2 (no fouls committed!).

Garcia – didn’t have one of his better games as the tricks he tried didn’t come off, but did ok and tried hard. Missed a couple of good chances in the 1st half, when a goal would have been very welcome indeed. (note: how come the anti-Liverpool posters seem to forget that?) FS-3. I also noted that he didn’t step up or be selected by Benitez for the penalties.

Alonso – didn’t have one of his better games. Just had one effort wide. Didn’t commit a foul in the whole match. Didn’t pick up Kaka in the 1st half. However, and it’s an important however, he stepped forward for the penalty in the game to make it 3-3, and although he placed it to Dida’s right (he always dove that way in the match!), he got in to finish it off. I think he was selected as the no.1 penalty taker, and must have been no.5 on the list at the shoot-out, which wasn’t needed. That means of course that Gerrard was not selected in the first 5 (he stood by his position of not taking another one). FS-3

Cisse – wasn’t very good at being the target man. Was very tightly marked. Only 1 shot on target and only 1 offside.

Smicer – the surprise person of the game for me. I was first of all surprised to see him come on and he played reasonably well. The goal was a great effort and for those that say Dida fluffed it, watch it again. It was a fiercely struck shot. He also stepped up and scored a very important penalty in the shoot-out. It was 2-2, and Rise had missed the one before. The pressure was on, because oif he missed it, it would mean that Liverpool’s 2-0 starting advantage would be back to zero and the mental advantage would be back with Milan. He was nervous, but he picked Dida’s left and scored.
He had a shot wide. FC-2, FS-1

Hamann – was a crucial catalyst. Why he wasn’t on from the start I cant fathom. Did very well in front of the back-3 for the second half, broke up a lot of play, completely snuffed out Kaka. Also went up and stuck the ball in the net very well for the 1st penalty when the men were needed to stand up. One shot wide. FC-3, FS-2


Redspider

The Muppet

I think ye are being abit unfair on the doc. He's right when with all the instances he has highlighted. A perfectly good goal ruled out in the first half for AC, Gerrard did dive for the penno , Rise s penno was poor by his standards etc etc.

Ok his conclusion that Liverpool didn't win is flawed. Taking nothing away from the achievement even the most ardent pool supporter will have to admit that they were played off the pitch in the first half and had a fair bit of luck in extra to be stiil in it for the pennos.

smuckers

Well done Liverpool, a fair bit a luck paid off in the end, but The Milan backline finally fell apart.

Dcully

Nice analysis of each player redspider but i think Alonso was hugely instrumental in the second half,Hamann came on and snuffed out kaka ,this gave liscence for both Gerrard and Alonso to move forward and in the amazing 15 minute spell you can see Alonso really get into the game and spray the balls around.
Totally agree about Smicers goal ,it was the power that beat Dida ,he didnt fluff at it at all,excellent goal.

Guy:Incognito

Hamann or Biscan should have been on from the start (never in a million years before this season would I thought I'd been saying that biscan should have been on in a CL final) . Gerrard is not a mdfield player, he cant do what the likes of Keane can do. He plays between the front 2 and the midfield, breaking past the ball. He needs two strong midfielders behind him, and nowhere is this more evident than with England, both he and Lampard going forward and no 3rd battling midfielder in there leaves the middle horribly expose and I dont know how Sven cant see that.

Kewell shouldnt have been on th eplane, never mind the pitch, No-one will be sad to see him go, and he only has himself to blame. If Hamann goes, he has to be replaced with a younger version of himself, especially as Gerrard is staying.

Another top quality Centre half is needed to partner Carra, he's being too exposed all the time, which only makes how good he's been all season seem all the better.Troare is like a new born foal, legs flailing everywhere, I really dont think he has control over them.

Either a left winger or a left full is needed (depending on where Riise is played) and hopefully Warnock can develop into a good player. I think Garcia is going to need replaceing, hes too lightweight for the PL.

ianomccabe

Dcully wrote:

Nice analysis of each player redspider but i think Alonso was hugely instrumental in the second half,Hamann came on and snuffed out kaka ,this gave liscence for both Gerrard and Alonso to move forward and in the amazing 15 minute spell you can see Alonso really get into the game and spray the balls around.
Totally agree about Smicers goal ,it was the power that beat Dida ,he didnt fluff at it at all,excellent goal.

I'd agree with that. I felt that alonso bossed the 2nd half and was the one pulling all the strings in that vital 6 min period. He kept the ball moving which was what we needed

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

Rise s penno was poor by his standards etc etc.

Was I watching the same peno? Which I just watched again to be sure.

Riise's was struck sweetly, hard and low to the bottom corner. Right in the bottom corner. It was a great peno. In fact its the best penalty save I can remember.

Take it

as i stated before yes they were played off the pitch in the first half but then you must say liverpool played ac off the pitch for the majority of the second half and which would you consider hard to do score 3 goals from 0-0 or score 3 goals from 3-0 down imagine how hard it would to motivate players at half time 3-0 down against AC MILAN!!! who Man u couldn't break down.

AC should never have thrown a 3-0 lead away NO professional club should but the fact that they did adds (to me a little biased i know) to the fact that Liverpool should have won it!

andyman

Sergniho's penalty was just an embarrasment.

I wonder if the ball found Beckhams

redspider

Dcully wrote:

i think Alonso was hugely instrumental in the second half,Hamann came on and snuffed out kaka ,this gave liscence for both Gerrard and Alonso to move forward and in the amazing 15 minute spell you can see Alonso really get into the game and spray the balls around.

I'll have to look at the match again [any excuse! ;-) ]. I dont want to be over critical on Alonso, I just thought that when he plays well, he is normally more prominent, and I thought that on the night he was less so. Whatever way ou look at it, Kaka was the responsibility of Gerrard and Alonso in the first half and neither of them did it. The old man, Hamann did. Perhaps, dare I say the word, Biscan could have also done the job, although in such an important game, he may have buckled under the pressure.

smuckers: "Well done Liverpool, a fair bit a luck paid off in the end, but The Milan backline finally fell apart."


I dont agree with one-line comments like this. Liverpool did not have a fair bit of luck, they had some luck, but not a huge amount. This wasnt a case of Milan stealing it. Also, the Milan back line did not fall apart. Liverpool pushed players deep up front, taking a risk in doing so, and the goals came. None of the Liverpool goals came from blatant Milan defensive errors - none!

The Muppet: "I think ye are being abit unfair on the doc. He's right when with all the instances he has highlighted. A perfectly good goal ruled out in the first half for AC, Gerrard did dive for the penno , Rise s penno was poor by his standards etc etc. and had a fair bit of luck in extra to be stiil in it for the pennos."

Well, I mainly ignored the ranting and raving from "docs" posts and those of his ilk as they seemed to be based on ignorance or blind bias. I'd say you are definitely wrong if you say that he is right with ALL instances he has highlighted. The chance ruled out for offside was difficult to call at the time. If you check a reply of it, it looks as if both Gerrard and Kaka make contact with the ball at the same time. You will also notice that there was little protest from Kaka and Shevchenko after. I dont think you can say 100% it was not offside, and the ref didnt think so at the time. The other problem with offsides is that once the ref blows the play is irreversibly changed, so if the ref didnt blow, maybe it would have been saved by Dudek or a defender may have got a leg in or indeed Shevchenko may have changed his mind on when to shoot.

Gerrard was fouled. This incident has been explained at length. He was tugged back twice, Gattuso also caught him with his leg on purpose. So it was a penalty. I do agree that Gerrard went down in a heap, but this is endemic in the modern game. If you dont go down and instead stumble on, unfortunately chances are the ref wont blow up. I blame the refs for this system that has created all this pansy diving all over the place. Look at AFL, US NFL, Rugby, GAA, etc. None of this crap. Footballers are acting like poofs. But dont you think Shevchenko or Crespo would have done the same thing in the same situation? Of course they would.

I agree hat Riise's pen was not hit with power, but it was well positioned. or so he thought. If that would have been to the other side, he would have scored as Dida was ONLY diving to his right. But Dida was going at full stretch low for all penalties, even Alonso's in the game, so he was caught out. But maybe his miss made Smicer shoot right. Btw, Tommasson struck a much worse penalty, went for power down the middle but Dudek had gone the other way so he scored.

The luck issue keeps coming up. I think that because the Shev chance came at the end, it is sticking in everyone's minds. The cross was made for Hypiia and why he didnt head it out I cant fathom. It left Shevchenko with a free point blank header which Dudek did well to save the first part and instinctively managed to save the 2nd shot. There was fortune in it, thats for sure, but how much is a matter of opinion. Football is a game of percentages. Apart from that incident, there wasnt much other luck going Liverpool's way, certainly not in the 1st minute when a poorly placed cross was met by Maldini and it went through 3 Liverpool players. Luck happens to both teams. Milan had luck on occasion, Liverpool had luck on occasion, the Shev chance at the end was indeed luck for Liverpool on that occasion, but whether you can say "Liverpool were lucky", meaning the luckiest by far, you cant, not unless you look at every incident in the match, kick, pass, etc and give it some "luck" measurement, and then come up with some sort of luck value. You can do it at a granular level, say in a match, where one team hit the woodwork many times, yet still lose.

What I cant understand is why there is so much negativity coming from some fans from some other teams. The day after the match, I got an email about 5 pages long, the longest ever this guy has sent me ever, and it was non-stop about how Liverpool were lucky, fortunate, how Milan crumbled, made mistakes, etc, etc. Its the only thing thta has got him so worked up about in years. Now that I cant understand. Whats even more unusual, is that the "naysayers" only seem to have a vague recollection of the game, or indeed a warped view of what happened. I'm always willing to relook at any incident and try and call a spade a spade, and opinions will differ, but some people seem to have lost the run of themselves, although it seems to be dieing down in the last few days.

Btw, I think the guy that emailed me is finally accepting several days later that Liverpool have won the CL!

Redspider

LFCFan

went over to Liverpool for the weekend. Great buzz about the city. Went to see THE cup at Anfield aswell. What a weekend. Still buzzing and probably will be for a year!

Dcully

Yet again redspider speaks more sence than most around here.

Bannor

redspider wrote:

Alonso – didn’t have one of his better games. Just had one effort wide. Didn’t commit a foul in the whole match. Didn’t pick up Kaka in the 1st half. However, and it’s an important however, he stepped forward for the penalty in the game to make it 3-3, and although he placed it to Dida’s right (he always dove that way in the match!), he got in to finish it off. I think he was selected as the no.1 penalty taker, and must have been no.5 on the list at the shoot-out, which wasn’t needed. That means of course that Gerrard was not selected in the first 5 (he stood by his position of not taking another one). FS-3

Carragher was going to take the penalty but Alonso got the nod from Gerrard - he thought Carragher was too wound up to take it. In the shoot out Carragher was down for penalty #5, Gerrard #6.

In pre-season last summer the squad had a penalty session, each outfield player got to take five penalties against each of the keepers - Carragher was the only player to score all five against each keeper.

ianomccabe

In the shootout gerrard was down for pen number 5 and luis garcia for number 6. Benitez said after the game that carra wanted to take one but he thought with the state he was in with cramps etc. to pick someone else

Lex Luthor

'Don't let your heads drop. All the players who will get on the pitch after half-time have to keep their heads held high. We are Liverpool, you are playing for Liverpool. Do not forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them. You cannot call yourselves Liverpool players if you have your heads down. If we create a few chances we have the possibility of getting back into this. Believe you can do it and we will. Give yourselves the chance to be heroes'.

redspider

+ Bannor: "Carragher was going to take the penalty but Alonso got the nod from Gerrard - he thought Carragher was too wound up to take it. In the shoot out Carragher was down for penalty #5, Gerrard #6."

So, you're saying that Carragher was the designated penalty taker, selected by Benitez, and that Gerrard thought he was too wound up and so agreed to Alonso taking it.

I would be surprised if the decision was left to Gerrard without some signal from the bench and I would also be surprised that Jamie would be the designated penalty taker. I'll have to watch the vid - AGAIN .... ;-) ... for clues. Benitez waves his hands like mad if Finnan is 5 yards out of position, so I'm very sure he would have a lot to say when the peno came about in terms of deciding who should take it.


+ ianomccabe: "In the shootout gerrard was down for pen number 5 and luis garcia for number 6. Benitez said after the game that carra wanted to take one but he thought with the state he was in with cramps etc. to pick someone else"

The decsion about Varra makes sense, he was moving on adrenalin alone, but what I cant figure out is why was Alonso not in the 5 selected penalty takers! The normal tactic is to pick strong takers at no.1 and no.5. Alonso kicked the one in the match, so you would think that he would be in the top 5 and should have been at no.1 or no.5. So, maybe it was because he missed the one in the match then. hmmm.


Benitez: "Don't let your heads drop. All the players who will get on the pitch after half-time have to keep their heads held high. We are Liverpool, you are playing for Liverpool. Do not forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them. You cannot call yourselves Liverpool players if you have your heads down. If we create a few chances we have the possibility of getting back into this. Believe you can do it and we will. Give yourselves the chance to be heroes".

Pretty much run of the mill stuff. "Hold your head up high" is also in YNWA as well. I'm sure he said a lot more over half-time. Its 15 mins, and would fill several pages of words I'm sure. He talked a lot about tactics (according to the Sunday Times article) and used a white board to explain the 3-2-4-1 system that he wanted the players to adopt to. Pretty radical stuff in my opinion. Whatever he said, he got them motivated enough to believe that they could score at least 1, if not 2 and get pride back in the Liverpool shirt.

Many will concur that he made a complete tactical balls-up in the first half, but that his 2nd half selection worked very well. Sign of a half-genius, perhaps.

Redspider

BolBill

Nah , whats hes saying is that we've won FIVE, YES FIVE !!!!!!!!


WWWWHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Lex Luthor

[QUOTE=redspiderMany will concur that he made a complete tactical balls-up in the first half, but that his 2nd half selection worked very well. Sign of a half-genius, perhaps.

Redspider[/QUOTE]
Benitez thinks like Ferguson a few years back....if you go down a couple, there is always the 2nd half to turn it around. You have to play for the full 90+ mins.
It's great to have him on board....

redspider

Lex Luthor wrote:

Benitez thinks....if you go down a couple, there is always the 2nd half to turn it around. You have to play for the full 90+ mins.

Yes, I agree. He thinks that and knows that and Liverpool have managed to do it several times this season. The 4-2 win against Fulham is an example from the league. Goals can come quickly in football in any match, so being 3-0 down is not the end of the world.

However, many players dont think like that and give up in their minds. I'm sure that Milan thought they had won at half-time. Very few teams in Italy in Serie would come back being 3-0 down against Milan. Although, how many teams would come out 3-0 down and go all out attack. Many try to shore up the score, and try to save some goal difference. ie: better to lose 3-0 than attack and lose 4-0. Only a change in the rules of the sport and in competitions will change that. So, you can get situations at 3-0 when both teams are "happy".

There is a saying that I use sometimes: "you can score too early". Milan may have done so in this case. It may have been better to be just 1-0 up or 2-0 up at half-time rather than 3-0. Strange isnt it. With 1-0 up, Liverpool were unlikely to go for a 3-2-4-1 formation at half-time and mount an assault. And half-time gave him the perfect setting to gee up the team. If Liverpool would have gone 3-0 down, say with 10 mins left, loads of time to get 3 goals back, they probably wouldnt have recovered.

The whole thing is about attitude. Players play differently depending on what the score is. They are not automotons and show that they are not as professional as they could be, perhaps. Ultimate professionals in whatever profession perform consistenly. So a team a 9-0 should play the same as f they were 0-0. But football isnt like that. There is a time to give up, ie: when 3-0 and with 3 mins to go. Benitez did really well in being able to motivate the players at half-time. A lot of this game was won not on the pitch, but in the minds of players.

Redspider

Bannor

Just heard that Hamann fractured his foot in the match - the injury was only discovered today when he was examined by the German team doctor.

redspider

I'd say it was just one of those chipped bone type of breaks or else a small bone in the instep. Adrenaline and natral pain killers, enorphins, etc, kick in and its possible to play on without too much pain, although in these cases he would have felt it stiffen and get more sore after the match and the following days.

I got a kick in a match once, had to go off for a few minutes, cae back on and played the remainder, but was limping after the match an could hardly move the next day. It was a broken bone in the instep and I was on crutches for a few days afterwards. Btw, the kick was blatant by a hatchet man, which you get at lower levels, and I didnt even get a bloody free kick for it !

Redspider

ps: I will post more on the Milan players at some stage on this thread. The match is now one week ago. The fervour has died down but the pleasure remains!

zAbbo

Well its a week today, this time last week, i was soaking up every little bit of info on the game, watching the run up to the big one.

I've watched every game from Olympiakos to Chelsea at home on my bed, big cushion and the 32" widescreen.

For the final, i nipped into the pub and had some grub, and watched the start of the game, i left after 15mins, because it was more comfortable watching it at home.

So i think Liverpool winning the CL depending on *me* watching it at home, as i did every other game.

Ardent

bazH wrote:

So i think Liverpool winning the CL depending on *me* watching it at home, as i did every other game.

No it depended on me switching over from Sky to ITV at half time. You know it's true.

Lex Luthor

Ardent wrote:

No it depended on me switching over from Sky to ITV at half time. You know it's true.

Actually it was me switching from Heineken to Tiger Beer

Drag00n79

Ardent wrote:

No it depended on me switching over from Sky to ITV at half time. You know it's true.

Ahem, I think you'll find it was actually me going in the opposite direction — from ITV to Sky at half-time

Third_Echelon

I cant believe that liverpool fans are still talking about this game a week later... And 37 pages of posts!!! Holy Cow Batman

zAbbo

Third_Echelon wrote:

I cant believe that liverpool fans are still talking about this game a week later... And 37 pages of posts!!! Holy Cow Batman

19 pages if you're cool

LFCFan

Third_Echelon wrote:

I cant believe that liverpool fans are still talking about this game a week later... And 37 pages of posts!!! Holy Cow Batman

We'll be talking about this for years

Headshot

i wonder how long this thread will go for

my money is on 50 pages

~Rebel~

bazH wrote:

So i think Liverpool winning the CL depending on *me* watching it at home, as i did every other game.

Its unreal the amount of superstituous things i've heard peole did for that match! A guy in the pub after came up with a laminated thing around his neck that was signed by Ian Rush screaming "this is why we won!!"

Personally i know of course that it was me wearing my Czech away Milan Baros jersey that i wore for every match from (and including) the Olympiacos. Have found incidentally they seem to lose when im wearing the yellow away jersey, so dont wear it on pool match days anymore unless after the match!

LizardKing

bazH wrote:

19 pages if you're cool

Yeah lets at least make it 20 ...

On Topic ... Seems Finnans injury he picked up in the Game has put him out of the Israel match .. could be a big loss ...

eirebhoy

LizardKing wrote:

Yeah lets at least make it 20 ...

On Topic ... Seems Finnans injury he picked up in the Game has put him out of the Israel match .. could be a big loss ...

A major loss. We have 4 recognised right backs with experience or ability to play for us, Stephen Carr, Alan Maybury, Steve Finnan and Stephen Kelly. They're all unavailable. It either means playing Harte at left back and O'Shea at right back or playing Stephen Reid at right back. Either way its a big risk.

~Rebel~

Heres a pretty good artical to read 1 week on...
- http://www.football365.com/opinion/f365_opinion/story_153912.shtml

Istanbul And The Fever Pitch Factor
Wednesday June 01 2005


During the mid-to-late 1990s, any book by a football fan about their club would be dubbed, by author, friend or lazy critic, as 'Man City's/Southend's/Emley's answer to Fever Pitch'.

Which was a categorical error. Fever Pitch was everybody's Fever Pitch. It was not a book about Arsenal, it was a book about the importance of football to our lives, about how it first enters us and never lets go.

'What impressed me most,' Hornby writes of one visit to Highbury, 'was how much most of the men around me hated, really hated, being there...I went to Chelsea, and to Tottenham, and to QPR, and saw the same thing: that the natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score.'

But as well as misery it's about the dreams that we have and about how, improbably and after so much disappointment, they can be fulfilled, as Nick Hornby's were at Anfield on 26 May 1989.

And, by finishing with Arsenal's disastrous winter of 1991-92 - out of the League Cup to Coventry, the European Cup to Benfica and the FA Cup to Wrexham in a few weeks and the title defence shot, too - it reminded us of just how rare success is and why we must treasure it.

The book was published in September 1992, when Arsenal were not today's free-flowing side, so synonymous with continental panache that a lucky, defensive cup final win is seen as an aberration and not the archetypal Gunners success.

In surveys in the early 1990s, it was a close-run thing as to which was the least favourite other club among fans, between Manchester United and George Graham's side, yet so good was the writing and the insight that it was a book about all our personal relationships wth football rather than a paean to the Arsenal.

In the manner of the Radio Four castaway programme, it is the Desert Island football book, the game's equivalent of the Bible that you would be handed automatically, to go with the complete works of Rothmans/Sky Sports and another book of your choice.

But which eight matches would you take with you to your island? The first one you went to, perhaps. Your club's finest hour and a half, or more, and a few similar.

My personal list would include Spain 4 Yugoslavia 3, Holland 0 Italy 0 (both at Euro 2000), Germany 1 England 5 and Crystal Palace 4 Liverpool 3. All games I was lucky enough to see in person.

But surely every football fan would want to take the 2005 European Cup final. Like Fever Pitch, which was a book about football and not about Arsenal, this match was about the game itself, not Liverpool or, for that matter, AC Milan.

There was a degree to which the fact that it was Liverpool made it less palatable, poisonous to some. If you have grown up detesting the Reds, if they are your rivals now, then how can you enjoy such a lofty triumph?

By ignoring the colour of their shirts and the names of the players, and simply labelling them what they were - the underdogs. They were that at kick-off and, 51 minutes gone and grateful to a fine save to be only 3-0 down, they were dead dogs as far as most of us were concerned. All of us, really, bar the deliberate contrarian.

One computer simulation gave them a 0.2 per cent chance of victory at that moment; an educated guess suggests they stood a 90 per cent chance of total humiliation.

They had been outplayed, out-thought, outclassed. The team and support, exposed to a global audience, were as low as any club have ever been. Some fans had left; some players were in their last games for the club but had done so badly that making this their last game full stop would have seemed an attractive proposition.

What happened next was the most absurd turnaround in the game, beyond imagination. The coach did not talk about the possibility of victory at half-time, just about the idea of stopping the opposition scoring more and maybe nicking one back.

But it happened. We saw it happen. Hope that had appeared snuffed out burst into flame as if the captain had been drilling for natural gas.

Half a dozen minutes later, the game swung back and the underdogs were once again an ordinary side, fired only by extraordinary passion. Possession, amazingly, was 50-50 in both the first and second halves, but extra time was 64-36 in the favourites' favour.

And yet, and yet, thanks to spirits that stayed willing even when the flesh was weak and a refusal to surrender even if the European Footballer of the Year had the goal at his mercy, the underdogs held on, then kept their nerve for the nine penalties needed to complete the miracle.

As a script no one would believe it. But it happened. An ordinary side achieved the extraordinary. Where hope there was none they found it and confounded us all.

At one time or another all our teams are ordinary. All are written off. All are humiliated - and it is that extra factor that marks the 2005 European Cup final out as surely unique among comebacks.

Just as it doesn't matter what team Nick Hornby was writing about, so it doesn't matter which team it was that achieved that miracle. Fever Pitch was recently voted - no surprise - the best sports book of all time. I give you the best football match of all time.

redspider

eirebhoy wrote:

Finnan ... A major loss.

Yeah. You mentioned it the day after the CL final that that was your main worry (ie: Finnans fitness). I thought myself that in the 1st hal of that match that Finnan has a quieter game than usual and did not get up and down the pitch, but was surprised to see him subbed at half-time and even more suprised to hear that he had a knock. He didnt seem to be hampered in anyway. I guess it may have been one of those injuries that if you stop walking around and running around it will sink in. And certainly so after the game. I would have thought that he could have played the 2nd half of the CL final, through the pain barrier with the other half-dozen doing the same thing!

His loss for Ireland is being discussed on the IE v IL thread.

Redspider

Shaque attack

sweet article dude really captures the feelings at this present time

redspider

~Rebel~ wrote:

Heres a pretty good artical to read 1 week on...

"What happened next was the most absurd turnaround in the game, beyond imagination. The coach did not talk about the possibility of victory at half-time, just about the idea of stopping the opposition scoring more and maybe nicking one back."

This is absolutely false! The idea was not to stopping the opposition. Does a 3 man defence and an attack line with 3 players going forward from the start of the 2nd half kick-off indicate an all out defence? Far from it.

This article is one of many that are written with misty journalistic inaccuracies. Hindsight, especially by journalists, is far from 20-20 vision and in many instances is 0-20. They try and re-write history and facts. That is why, the more you know about a game and the more times you have seen it for yourself, the more you realise all the BS that is written in the newpapers and the media. Hence, judging a game alone on what you read can be very very foolhardy.

The media also miss things, at the time and in hindsight. Two that I spotted when watching the video again and in slow mo for the important bits:

1) Crespo's 1st goal - he was offside, and he was interefering with play in the same phase. For those that talk about Liverpool luck, this is Milan luck.
2) Gerrard was tripped by Gattusso's foot, hard to spot but a fact. And he had his shoulder pulled back twice. For any people that remain convinced that he dived, watch it again. If they they classify this as Liverpool luck, re-classify.

I'm all for stories and legends being written up, and people lyrically waxing on about this that and the other, but they are stories and legends. Not facts.

Redspider

Emmo

The players said that Rafa came in and immeidatley said that Stevie was coming off and that Didi was going on. He spoke about how they where going to get back into the game and start attacking. He gave some suggestions on movements (big thing for him) and for sweeping play from wing to wing.

We saw him warming up at half time and we knew we would come out fighting.

Tactically it was just the right thing to do as two of the goals come from a ball out wide being played inside 2 Milan defenders. They where stretched with the wing backs and because Pirlo doesnt defend (he just passes the ball, but how? class act)

3 at the back with Gerrard and Riise as wing backs and Didi and Alonso sitting and letting Smicer roam in behind Baros.

What was amazing was that Gerrard playing as a right wing back was doing such an amazing job of defending and supporting attack all over the pitch. Superb 2nd half display.

There was no thoughts in Rafa's head about damage limitation. None what so ever.

Emmo

~Rebel~

Figured may as well have the whole saga told on this thread! couple of weeks on and im still ecstatic over it! Brings a smile to my face every time i think of it!
Source: http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=283610&cpid=5&CLID=&lid=2&title=LIVERPOOL+HANDED+CL+PLACE&channel=Football_Home

Liverpool have been awarded a place in next season's UEFA Champions League first qualifying round.

The European champions will start their qualifying campaign on 12/13 July - with return legs to be played on 19/20 July.

Liverpool had initially been told that they would not be able to defend their trophy, won in a penalty shoot-out against Milan, because they finished outside of the top four in The Premiership.

However, after extensive negotiations, Uefa's executive committee have now concurred on Liverpool's participation.

Rafa Benitez's side now face an exhausting close-season as they will have to play six games to secure a place in the group stages of Europe's premier competition.

Uefa's director of communications, William Gaillard, has spoken exclusively to Sky Sports News and has explained his organisation's decision and the implications for future seasons.

''I think we are looking for a quieter summer at this stage!'' Gaillard told Sky Sports News.

''We have basically amended the rule to make sure there is no ambiguity left.

''As you can see from our statement that says title holders will always have the right to defend the title and therefore qualify automatically - whilst at the same time the number of clubs per national association will remain stable.

''As we say also, Liverpool will be included in the English market pool share with the status of the lowest placed English club.

''There will still be some financial burden on the other four clubs, these calculations will take place later.

''It was decided reasonably quickly and it was a consensus position after the different aspects were examined and taken into account.''

Manchester City had been hoping Liverpool's participation in the Champions League would free up a Uefa Cup spot but Gaillard has now poured cold water on this suggestion.

''Man City don't get a place. As you can see from the list we transferred Liverpool from the Uefa Cup but kept the number of clubs in European competitions stable. So that means Bolton and Middlesbrough will represent England in the Uefa Cup,'' he concluded.

''The executive committee decided this was the best solution possible.''

meditraitor

So that means we could meet shelbourne or glentoran in the first round---sweet

LizardKing

Shels Vs Pool ... that'd be sweet ... probably have to be up for Shels though

redspider

Emmo wrote:

He spoke about how they where going to get back into the game and start attacking. There was no thoughts in Rafa's head about damage limitation. None what so ever.

I agree, it was a decision to either make it 3-1 or to go 4-0 down trying. It was about pride. It was a risky approach, no doubt about that, a real gamble, but it paid off. For those that still talk about Liverpool luck, this was dynamic football of the highest and advanced quality.

Redspider

redspider

Uefa have decided to grant Liverpool a place in next years CL. Sense prevails and football wins.

Its good news for Liverpool to be in it. Even if only at the 1st rnd stage, they should get through to the group stage but its interesting to see that they are not classified as an English team, so could meet Man U or Everton early on or another difficult team due to lack of seeding. They will be seeded in the group stage I understand.

Redspider