CL Final - AC Milan vs. Liverpool (scores)

The Clown Man

AC 3-0 is 20/1 !?

Nice one. That's an easy €400 for me!

Jivin Turkey

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

And even if they do they should not be allowed go in instead of everton, cause Everton played the better this season and more consistent. It would be an outrage, and the champions league would turn into a joke.

A total outrage alright, that the "Champions" of the "Champions League" could get in ahead of a team that finished champions, no sorry, second, no sorry, third, no sorry fourth, in their domestic league.

But as has been pointed out, that debate has been settled.

Take it

TheDoc u say neutral hahahaha so funny, your definitly not neutral on this subject :rolleyes: this topic was on the CL final i dont see why you have to make comments that you SURELY know will P1ss people off you seem to hate Traore and purely say Liverpool shouldn't finish top 5 because of him (neutral eh?) anyway what about Drogba, what about Huth, what about Cygan, what about Neville, what about howard/carrol? these players are hardly top class and make the team regularly so does Chelsea and Man U not deserve top 3? i am not even going to start on the everton team line up!! neutral my ar$e

Facts are facts, you want to know the reason Liverpool have got this far??

Answer:
(1) they have beaten anyone that has been put in front of them!!
(2) not in ONE leg have they lost they have beaten B.L home and away, beaten Juve at home got a draw away, beaten Chelsea at home and got a draw away. NOT ONE LOSS in the knock out stages even AC have lost in the knock out stages

Liverpool deserve to be there full stop

Baros has done a thankless job for Liverpool up front running around on his own up front while the midfield sits back he deserves a start i think

~Rebel~

I liked the way liverpool looked at the start of the season with 2 up front. They were forced to change it due to injuries and were lucky at some points to even get 1 fit striker but i feel id like to have seen them with 2 up front in the past weeks. Fairly sure it would have gotten goals, baros finds it very hard to play on his own as he needs to be closer to goal when he gets the ball with his head down style (quite similer to that of ronaldo back in the barca days i think).

Admittedly this is definately not the time to go changing from a winning method in champs league but would have been nice to see, think baros and morientes could have done well together but were hardly ever on the pitch at the same tim even against shíte teams.

Would like to see baros and cisse together for at least a portion of the match though, maybe cisse come on for someone (whoever isn't doing the best on the night) on bout 50/55 mins and the 2 of them work together (only if goals needed of course) Cisse looks sharp and clever at the moment, could see him giving and getting incisive passes around the box and needs another forward to work with.

Do think baros should start, he's on a cold streak but i still like him as a player, lets not forget what hes like when hes on form, had a great 1st half to the season and was the hero going from sometimes used sub last year to sole striker this year.

yes this is long enough.

Lex Luthor

ianomccabe wrote:

no big screen in anfield but they are showing it on a big screen in clayton square in the city centre for people who arent going to istanbul

Where is clayton square?

I thought there would be one in Concert Square just in front of the Outback bar?

ianomccabe

Clayton square is the modern shopping centre right in the centre of the town. Where boots, jd sports, game etc. are located.

~Rebel~

Just read a very good (if long) artical that has me totally fired up yet again for the final and beaming from ear to ear at the possibilities in store for the 'pool. Just so happy we've reached the final anything else is a bonus - but what a bonus!!! Here it is anyway [oh and if anyone thinks its too long to leave here lemme know and ill just leave the link instead.]
- http://www.redandwhitekop.com/article.php?id=1048183

What does this Champions League final really mean?
So what does this match –– this monumental occasion, now just one week away –– mean.
Not what it means to us as fans, as hell, it means everything.

But what does it mean for the future of the club? Is this a one-off trip to the stars, or are we setting up another space station beyond the thermosphere? Will victory make Liverpool the best team in Europe, or simply the best team in European competition? In 1977, 1978, 1981 and 1984 it was clear that the Reds were the best; changes to the rules on qualification (apparently, as of next season, they let any old rubbish in) means it's now less clear.

When Liverpool finished 5th in the league in 1981, no one dared say they weren't the best when they won the big one in Paris. But the Reds had dominated at home and in Europe for a number of years.

The achievement of reaching this year's final seems to have been somewhat belittled. Because of the domestic struggles, the Reds are not getting the credit they deserve for being one of the two best teams in European competition this season. Forgive me for missing something, but isn't this a one-off match where the winner is crowned Champions of Europe? Other, supposedly 'better' teams have had their chance to get this far and flunked it. Meanwhile, David Moyes believes Everton are the best team in Liverpool. While the Blues have done well, clearly he'd been drinking too much of his celebratory champagne before making that statement.

Everton have scandalously won more plaudits for their very good season, but one which ultimately leaves them empty handed. As Steven Gerrard so poignantly pointed out, you don't get medals for finishing 4th. Does being just one more win better than Liverpool in the league (with a minus goal difference!) outweigh Liverpool's eleven extra victories in cup competitions, including top-half Premiership teams like Spurs and Boro, and in Europe, the English and Italian champions (-elect)?

Both teams were mediocre in the league. At least Liverpool were very good in the Carling Cup, and exceptional in the the continent's elite club competition. The Reds, by reaching two cup finals in one season (and that's six since the turn of 2001), have shown their class. Not many teams do that in a season. It's not an 'accidental' coincidence. If this team isn't yet perfect, there is clearly something special there.

It was funny to hear ex-Evertonian Kevin Ratcliffe suggest Everton could reach the Champions League final next season –– on the basis that if Liverpool could, so could they. Finishing three points above Liverpool appears to have gone to the Toffees’ heads. Was he forgetting the extensive European experience Liverpool had picked up in the previous four years –– a Champions League quarter-final, another six-game group stage a year later, and the Uefa Cup victory of 2001 –– while Everton were busy in relegation battles? Talk about getting carried away!

Arsene Wenger was another to disparage the Reds' achievement. Speaking three days after Liverpool made the final, he claimed the Champions League had become like a standard cup, which anyone could win. He said: “The priority has to be the Premiership. If the Champions League goes well it goes well, but the Premiership has to be the most important by miles. The Champions League is too much of a surprise cup now.” Although strangely, Highbury is yet to be taken unawares...

It’s hard to imagine him saying that should Arsenal actually get somewhere in the competition. I think Arsenal are a superb team, but can they really be proud of just two quarter-final appearances in nine years? Liverpool actually have a higher ranking in Europe over the last five years, and if the Reds beat Milan, and earn the reward of the 5th Champions League place (apt, for the 5th European Cup), then Arsenal will go into the qualifiers on account of their lower Uefa coefficient. Liverpool must be very 'lucky' indeed, in that case.

The European Cup has always had ‘surprise’ teams in the final. It has always involved a knock-out competition, in one form or another. But it was impossible to say that Liverpool hadn’t earned the right to be there in 2005. If the competition was devalued years earlier by opening it up to teams who finish 4th in their domestic leagues –– from which Liverpool clearly benefited –– Benítez’ team at least proved worthy finalists with their performances in the competition. Frankly, the Reds have been rather special.

While there was a modicum of truth in Wenger’s assessment –– it is, after all, hard to argue that there is no better team in Europe than Liverpool –– his statement that the Premiership was more important by “miles” was laughable, and indicative of a man under pressure in the Premiership (from Chelsea) and needing to disguise his own radical shortcomings in the Champions League.

Anyone who thinks Liverpool reaching the Champions League final is anything less than a momentous achievement , needs only to look at how many other English teams have made it this far in the last twenty years (since Liverpool's domination of Europe ended). We are all well aware that the number is one. It took Manchester United at their very best, in 1999, to achieve the feat. So Liverpool have already 'achieved' something. That it was achieved –– unlike United six years ago –– with an absolutely staggering injury list makes it even more remarkable.

Chelsea lost three games in this season's knock-out rounds; Liverpool, so far, have lost none. That tells a significant story. Milan were outplayed by PSV on two separate occasions, and soundly beaten in the second game. No one has outplayed Liverpool in the last 16.

Everton, meanwhile, can enjoy their brief moment in the sun, but they need to know that a rude awakening awaits –– if that wasn't already evident after their decimation at Highbury last week.

Arsenal were superb in the first half against Liverpool three days earlier, but in the second half the Reds showed the level of their quality and character. After 45 minutes there appeared to be an unbridgeable gulf in class, but in the second half Rafa's men showed how well the team can perform, and suddenly Arsenal were 'hoofing' clear. An equaliser never quite materialised, but it was always on the cards. On the balance of play a draw, or a narrow Arsenal victory would have been the fair result –– there was not a two-goal difference in terms of play. However, reports said Everton were lucky to lose 7-0 at Highbury.

What Everton proved against Arsenal was that without 100% commitment and effort, they are nothing. Their second game in a week, they obviously took their foot off the gas having secured 4th place –– but Arsenal also had nothing to play for. Let's watch the Blues try to maintain their previous levels of performance every Saturday when facing a possible extra 20 games in their season. With all the extra games (if they are remotely successful) will come more injuries, too.

I honestly believe Everton will do well to finish in the top half of the table next season. The trouble is they are now there to be shot at. Also, after the delirium of an unexpected high, the fall is harder, and further. If they can repeat this year's success, then they really are onto something, and I will hold my hands up and applaud them (while gritting my teeth). But George Burley was right to call to mind the season when his Ipswich side were relegated after finishing 5th and playing six games in the Uefa Cup.

part 2 on next post

~Rebel~

part 2

Surreal

Does anyone else still find it all a little surreal –– the European Cup final? Weren't we supposed to build up to a moment like this over a number of years? I don't think it will sink in until I am inside the stadium, drinking in the atmosphere. It all feels like a dream, but a dream that has yet to really get started.

I haven't even contemplated the Reds losing. Then again, I dare not think about the high should we win.

Beating Milan, should the previously unthinkable become a reality, will both help and hinder Liverpool next season. It will mean more to live up to, as Champions of Europe; expectations will be raised. It will make the Reds even more of a scalp in the Premiership. But at the same time, it will breed confidence, ensure more money from re-qualifying, and while attracting players won't be tough whatever happens, it will make getting the very best that little bit easier.

It all just seems so perfectly set up for the Reds. Milan are not only tired, but have an extra game to play this Friday. Should they fail to win, then Juventus will be champions –– how tired will they feel after that? After all, Liverpool had already made Juventus look rather average –– another psychological boost, to have outplayed Milan's 'betters'.

Milan, while a great side, full of top players, have not been well of late. Their recent form has been terrible in all competitions. They are running on empty. The sensation of a season imploding around their ears is one from which it is hard to escape. While they've been playing and losing games or dropping points, Rafa has been plotting their downfall. If Milan have some extra quality, Liverpool have the elements in their favour.

The last thing –– or the last person –– Milan's slow, ageing defence will want to see is Djibril Cissé, who is fresh and coming into form and fitness just at the right time. Maybe his broken leg can prove a blessing in disguise. He has settled into English football from the sidelines, watching and learning, and while I am a fan of Milan Baros, I feel Cissé has earned the right to start next week. His attitude and hunger ensure, to my mind, that he will. His all-round play against Villa was sensational –– he finally looked like he'd 'arrived'.

(Having said that, Baros' questionable attitude of late might not make him a good sub –– starting Baros would be the only way to get the best out of him, as undeserved as it may seem; especially after he was dropped for his two previous cup finals, while Cissé will be "happy" just to be on the bench after the season he has had. But Cissé would still get my vote, and I think Milan will be living closer to Milan than Liverpool next season.)

All the other serious injuries have cleared up. Alonso, Gerrard, Baros, Luis Garcia, Kewell and Hamann have all had spells from six weeks to four months on the sidelines over the winter months –– their own personal mid-season breaks. They've had just about enough time to get match fit. Finnan, Hyypia and Traore were afforded a rest on Sunday. With the exception of Kirkland and the two ineligible recruits, Benítez currently has his strongest squad to select from.

Milan are still favourites. But they will be in for one hell of a game. In the venue where teams are welcomed to "Hell", let's hope it's a heavenly ending for the Reds, whatever its enduring 'meaning'. To alter a Bob Paisley quote, just go out and win the thing, lads, and after we'll discuss the significance of the achievement at our leisure.

© Paul Tomkins 2005

ianomccabe

great article. gets me too excited though and i realise there's still a week to go!

uberwolf

I'm sorry - I've to keep adding to this thread and the build up!!

John Arne Riise has warned Champions League favourites AC Milan that Liverpool will "work like lions and fight like tigers" in next week's final in Istanbul.

The Norwegian has been one of Liverpool's stand-out performers in a dramatic season which will climax with the sixth European Cup final in their history at the Ataturk Stadium.

Riise claims that he and the Anfield players are determined to write their names in that history of the club.

"You always want to be able to write history at the club you are playing for, and the whole team is now just one game away from doing that here at Liverpool," said the 24-year-old.

"To have the chance to put myself with some of the big names that have represented this club is beyond my wildest dreams.

"I have always wanted to be in the final of the Champions League and win it with Liverpool, because that is where this club belongs."

Riise, talking in the club's LFC magazine, added: "It will be a dream come true for every single player here.

"We know it will be a hard game but we cannot stop thinking that if we do win the cup it will go down in history.

"Without doubt this is the pinnacle of my career. I won the league in France with Monaco and finished second in my first season with Liverpool.

"But the Champions League trophy is the biggest thing you can win in club football.

"Just to walk out in the stadium and take part in the final will be the biggest moment of my career.

"To have such a game on your CV is great for any player, and to have done it with the biggest club, ever, in England is even better."

Despite his appetite for the occasion, Riise is aware that Liverpool cannot hope to have it all their own way in Turkey.

However he has warned Milan just how hard Liverpool will fight for the crown.

"We are going to work like lions and fight like tigers," he vowed.

"It is the last game of the season for us and the biggest in everyone's career so we are going to give it our all, that's for sure."

Riise hopes that the side will know before next week's final whether they will be allowed back into the competition next season as holders.

He said: "Hopefully we will know before we play what the outcome will be should we win.

"Just winning the Champions League alone is enough incentive for us, but it would give us that extra boost if we knew about next season."

Shred

One geezer stands to make £40,000 if the pool win :eek:

From: RAWK

BRITISH bookmakers face a £2.5m payout if Liverpool win the Champions League.

Betting shops throughout Merseyside and beyond were deluged with bets on the Reds when their odds stood at 80-1.

Their odds rose shortly before the Olympiakos game in December when the Reds needed to beat the Greek champions by two clear goals just to qualify for the knockout stages.

But as the competition has gone on Liverpool's odds have been slashed in the light of their victories against some of Europe's top sides.

Having accepted thousands of bets on the Reds eventually winning the competition, local bookies now face a six-figure pay out should Liverpool go on to beat AC Milan.

William Hill took one bet of £500 at odds of 80-1, leaving one punter in line for a bumper pay-out of £40,000 should Rafa Benitez's team emerge victorious.

A William Hill spokes-woman said: "There has been quite a bit of interest in Liverpool all the way through the competition.

"Even when they were among the outsiders people from Merseyside were supporting them in our shops.

"We had several bets of £100 when the odds were 80-1 and one at £500 so there are quite a few people hoping for a Liverpool win."

The odds on a Liverpool victory have now been cut as low as 5/4 with most bookmakers, and Phil Cavanagh from Ladbrokes admits those who backed the Reds at 80-1 are on to a good thing.

He said: "We are facing a payout of around £500,000 if Liverpool win and industry-wide the figure is much higher.

"Early in the competition most of the money was going on Chelsea but as it wore on more and more people were backing Liverpool so there would obviously be a major payout if they went on to win it."

case n basket

The Clown Man wrote:

AC 3-0 is 20/1 !?

Nice one. That's an easy €400 for me!

A Chelsea win in the semis was probably easier money

ianomccabe

As was Juve in the quarters

Lex Luthor

Anybody know where I can get one for the mobile for the next few days....all the anti pool fans in here at work are winding us Pool fans up....we think this is a good way to rub salt in the wounds

---

Got one from www.free-ringtones.ie
MAGIC!!!!!!!

Thanks for the tip Shred....

Shred

Lex Luthor wrote:

Thanks for the tip Shred....

No sweat

Mindgames from Maldini:

LIVERPOOL WILL BE CHILD'S PLAY
Maldini mocks 'defensive' Benitez
By Neil McLeman

PAOLO MALDINI claimed only his young children are stopping him sleeping at night before he faces toothless Liverpool in Istanbul next week.

The Italian legend, 36, is preparing for his seventh Champions League final at the end of his 21st season for Serie A giants AC Milan.

After a career of containing the best strikers in the world, the classy defender said he had no reason to fear Milan Baros or Djibril Cisse in a boring Liverpool team who "don't play the ball forward at all".

And Maldini reckoned his two young boys, six-year-old Christian and Daniel, three, are much more of a handful.


"It is only my children who keep me awake at night!" said Maldini. "I have no other reason not to sleep before this game.


"The main difference between Milan and Liverpool is that we know how to attack.


"Liverpool is a team that is essentially very defensive - caution is at the heart of their game.


"The key to the final will be that Liverpool will close down any space and hope to use their quick players up front on the counter attack."


It is a style traditionally favoured by Italian teams who invented the 'Catenaccio' defensive system.


But with Spanish coach Rafael Benitez favouring a 4-5-1 formation, Maldini reckons the roles are now reversed and the English now play a more negative game while Italians no longer rely on cynical tactics.


"Milan have got such good players that we don't have to do that," he said.


"We play the game properly and we attack more. Chelsea and Liverpool don't play the ball forward at all. You simply can't judge a team's football from the country it comes from.


"In the quarter-finals Juventus lost the match in the opening 20 minutes of a game that lasted 180.


"Once Liverpool go ahead they are dangerous because it becomes hard to find space to break them down, especially if you are not playing all that brilliantly. playing defensively and holding up the game."


But Maldini did find words of praise for one Liverpool player - fellow defender Jamie Carragher.


"We have big names in our defence which is probably the best in Europe," he said of a rearguard which includes Jaap Stam and Alessandro Nesta. "Liverpool don't have that but they have players to be respected, especially Carragher who is now the third-best defender in the Premiership and has proved very impressive."


Maldini, who made his Milan debut back in 1985, won the European Cup twice under Arrigo Sacchi in 1989 and 1990 and for the fourth time against Juventus in 2003 at Old Trafford under current coach Carlo Ancelotti.


But he rates the thrashing of Barcelona in the 1994 final in Athens in Fabio Capello's team as the highlight. "It was a very high-tempo game between the two top sides in Europe - Barcelona had just won La Liga - and we won it 4-0," he recalled.


"It was a very tough assignment."My record in the Champions League is a source of great pride and I love the special feeling of playing in these games.


"And this is a better team than two years ago. We have kept our best players and added others."

Lex Luthor

Shred wrote:

No sweat

Mindgames from Maldini:

LIVERPOOL WILL BE CHILD'S PLAY
Maldini mocks 'defensive' Benitez
By Neil McLeman

PAOLO MALDINI claimed only his young children are stopping him sleeping at night before he faces toothless Liverpool in Istanbul next week.

The Italian legend, 36, is preparing for his seventh Champions League final at the end of his 21st season for Serie A giants AC Milan.

After a career of containing the best strikers in the world, the classy defender said he had no reason to fear Milan Baros or Djibril Cisse in a boring Liverpool team who "don't play the ball forward at all".

And Maldini reckoned his two young boys, six-year-old Christian and Daniel, three, are much more of a handful.


"It is only my children who keep me awake at night!" said Maldini. "I have no other reason not to sleep before this game.


"The main difference between Milan and Liverpool is that we know how to attack.


"Liverpool is a team that is essentially very defensive - caution is at the heart of their game.


"The key to the final will be that Liverpool will close down any space and hope to use their quick players up front on the counter attack."


It is a style traditionally favoured by Italian teams who invented the 'Catenaccio' defensive system.


But with Spanish coach Rafael Benitez favouring a 4-5-1 formation, Maldini reckons the roles are now reversed and the English now play a more negative game while Italians no longer rely on cynical tactics.


"Milan have got such good players that we don't have to do that," he said.


"We play the game properly and we attack more. Chelsea and Liverpool don't play the ball forward at all. You simply can't judge a team's football from the country it comes from.


"In the quarter-finals Juventus lost the match in the opening 20 minutes of a game that lasted 180.


"Once Liverpool go ahead they are dangerous because it becomes hard to find space to break them down, especially if you are not playing all that brilliantly. playing defensively and holding up the game."


But Maldini did find words of praise for one Liverpool player - fellow defender Jamie Carragher.


"We have big names in our defence which is probably the best in Europe," he said of a rearguard which includes Jaap Stam and Alessandro Nesta. "Liverpool don't have that but they have players to be respected, especially Carragher who is now the third-best defender in the Premiership and has proved very impressive."


Maldini, who made his Milan debut back in 1985, won the European Cup twice under Arrigo Sacchi in 1989 and 1990 and for the fourth time against Juventus in 2003 at Old Trafford under current coach Carlo Ancelotti.


But he rates the thrashing of Barcelona in the 1994 final in Athens in Fabio Capello's team as the highlight. "It was a very high-tempo game between the two top sides in Europe - Barcelona had just won La Liga - and we won it 4-0," he recalled.


"It was a very tough assignment."My record in the Champions League is a source of great pride and I love the special feeling of playing in these games.


"And this is a better team than two years ago. We have kept our best players and added others."

I read this on the paper this morning....I think Milan are running scared...they are brickin themselves in the event Liverpool go at them and nick a goal and have to spend the rest of the game trying to get back into it...I think Benitez will be a little more cavalier in the final and go for the kill.....Cisse & Baros up front and Kewell for the last 20min.
I don't know what Maldini is mouthing on about...I think 2-3 yrs back Liverpool played Milan in a pre season friendly or tournament and he admitted that Baros ran him ragged all over the pitch....He hasn't met Cisse yet..

The Rooster

Who'll take the penos for Liverpool - if it goes that far:

I reckon it'll be
- Gerrard
- Carragher
- whichever one of Baros/Cisse is left on
for definite with probably
- Alonso
- Riise
to make up the 5.

Hamann would be a strong contender but its very doubtful he'd last 120 minutes. Kewell probably next in line if one of Alonso/JAR is not on or dont fancy it, then Finnan. I reckon Garcia wouldnt have the balls, and please god we wont see Djimi or Igor step forward!

I wouldnt be overly confident of Liverpool winning a penalty shootout if it got that far!

PHB

Maldini is allowed be confident, he is Maldini

AC Milan peno takers:

Pirlo
Shev
Crespo
Kaka
Nesta
Seedorf


The amount of money I'd put on the top 3 scoring is massive, they are just great peno takers.
ALso add that to Dida in goal, and the experience of the Juve game, I'd expect AC Milan to win the peno shootout.
But it is a Peno shootout

ianomccabe

If Hamann was on the pitch i'd have money on him sticking one away. He was peno taker for a period of 5 or 6 games earlier in the season whilst Baros was out injured

p.pete

The Rooster wrote:

Who'll take the penos for Liverpool - if it goes that far:

I reckon it'll be
- Gerrard
- Carragher
- whichever one of Baros/Cisse is left on
for definite with probably
- Alonso
- Riise
to make up the 5.

Hamann would be a strong contender but its very doubtful he'd last 120 minutes. Kewell probably next in line if one of Alonso/JAR is not on or dont fancy it, then Finnan. I reckon Garcia wouldnt have the balls, and please god we wont see Djimi or Igor step forward!

I wouldnt be overly confident of Liverpool winning a penalty shootout if it got that far!

Can have Biscan take a penno for that "Dave O'Leary moment"

yom 1

p.pete wrote:

Can have Biscan take a penno for that "Dave O'Leary moment"

could you imagine Biscan going down in liverpool folklore for scoring the winning penalty!!!
"once dispised by everyone on the kop now a god"

I think if anyone deserves that right it would have to be Carragher
Absolutely immense all season long

uberwolf

yom 1 wrote:

I think if anyone deserves that right it would have to be Carragher
Absolutely immense all season long

from the liverpool echo

NEIL RUDDOCK believes the Champions League final will finish goalless but has tipped his old Liverpool team-mate Jamie Carragher to score the winning spot-kick in a penalty shoot-out against AC Milan.

Ruddock, the former Reds defender who spent five years at Anfield in the 1990s, has been pleasantly shocked by his old club's progress to the final in Istanbul next week.

Despite indifferent domestic form, Rafael Benitez's side squeezed out of their group thanks to Steven Gerrard's late winner against Olympiacos and knocked Bayer Leverkusen out of the last 16.

Titanic victories over Italian giants Juventus and newlycrowned Premiership champions Chelsea soon followed - with the Reds conceding just one goal over the course of the two ties.

Ruddock believes PSV's semi-final performance against Milan - they won the second leg 3-1 but went out on away goals - gives Liverpool real grounds for optimism.

But the former England international thinks Benitez's defence will again reign in Turkey and they will win the trophy the hard way, with Carragher and Gerrard key figures.

"I think Liverpool can score goals against Milan because PSV showed they can concede," said Ruddock.

"Defensively, in Europe, Liverpool have been the best team there. If you can keep Chelsea out for 180 minutes, they can keep Milan out for 90, that's for sure.

"You always need Stevie G to be on top of his game. He gets everyone around him going with his enthusiasm, he gets everyone playing.

"But the Razor Ruddock prediction is 0-0 and Jamie Carragher to score the winning penalty. He deserves it because he has had a great season."

yom 1

here's hopin Razor is right

redspider

Someone mentioned that Benitez would go for it and play two up front from the start. I cant see that. There will be no need to as the likes of Garcia, Gerard and Rise getting forward will be pressure enough with perhaps some support from Finnan wide right. I still think he has to go for Baros to start with Cisse coming on as that combination suits both players mentally. Starting with Cisse and we can more or less forget about Baros even passing the ball if he came on.

Here are some stats on Baros in the league:

Appearance 26
Minutes Played 1879
Attack
Goals Scored 7
Penalty Goals Scored 2
Shot On Target 22
Shot Off Target 18
Successful Crosses 3
Unsuccessful Crosses 22
Pass Completed 63
Pass Incompleted 41
Assists 2
Tackles Won 13
Tackles Lost 10
Successful Dribble 18
Unsuccessful Dribble 25
Defence
Shot Blocked 5
Interceptions 11
Blocks Made 1
Clearance 1
Discipline
Yellow Cards 2
Red Cards 1
Other Fouls 30
Offsides 26


Very poor at crossing and assists.

Here is Cisse:

Appearance 16
Minutes Played 932
Attack
Goals Scored 3
Penalty Goals Scored 1
Shot On Target 24
Shot Off Target 11
Successful Crosses 1
Unsuccessful Crosses 17
Pass Completed 37
Pass Incompleted 30
Tackles Won 8
Tackles Lost 2
Successful Dribble 10
Unsuccessful Dribble 9
Defence
Shot Blocked 7
Interceptions 7
Clearance 2
Discipline
Other Fouls 5
Offsides 13


and Garcia:

Appearance 29
Minutes Played 2344
Attack
Goals Scored 8
Shot On Target 36
Shot Off Target 35
Successful Crosses 6
Unsuccessful Crosses 47
Pass Completed 86
Pass Incompleted 85
Assists 3
Tackles Won 33
Tackles Lost 14
Successful Dribble 22
Unsuccessful Dribble 37
Defence
Shot Blocked 9
Interceptions 22
Blocks Made 1
Clearance 7
Discipline
Yellow Cards 6
Other Fouls 58
Offsides 12



Redspider

~Rebel~

The Rooster wrote:

please god we wont see Djimi or Igor step forward!

Dammit now im convinced Traore is gonna step forward if it comes to it, seems like a djimi traore thing to do, go for the glory even if he isn't feeling great, which he probably wont be after being hounded by Cafu all game!!

Pool players that could step up if needed -
-gerrard (had a dodgy one last time but couldn't see it twice),
-carra (hero and full of confidence - the one man who would get away with missing one and not be hated),
-alonso (just has abiloty to make the ball go where he wants it, seems cool as a cucumber too),
-baros (seems pretty good at them),
-cisse (great peno last weekend, full of confidence too),
-riise (keeper to get out of the way of a riise left footer!),
-hamman (good from the dead ball, has a wicked shot on him)
-finnan (good strike on him too, keeps em low)

while id be fairly happy with any of these stepping up, i wouldn't be at all surprised by any one of them missing with the exception of cisse, they're just the best of the bunch imo.

On peno's id have to fancy AC with their strikers, midfielders and above all cool heads, though on the other hand Dudek is quite the fan of a spectacular save!!

ianomccabe

Could anyone tell me what the story is with the ground being divided up?
What end do liverpool have and also east or west side of the stadium?

mike65

Enough peno talk. Its going to be decided (one way or the other) in 90 mins+stoppage time.

3-1
3-1
3-1
3-1 (if I keep saying it, it'll come true!)

Mike.

Lex Luthor

I'm sorry lads, but if it goes to peno's I would not be too confident....nothing to do with the takers, but I think they have a much better keeper and Dida is a penalty expert. I've seen him stop a fair few in his time, where as Dudek is not as highly rated.
Lets hope for a win in the 90 mins so we can all go out for the pubs and start celebrating early...

p.pete

Lex Luthor wrote:

I'm sorry lads, but if it goes to peno's I would not be too confident....nothing to do with the takers, but I think they have a much better keeper and Dida is a penalty expert. I've seen him stop a fair few in his time, where as Dudek is not as highly rated.
Lets hope for a win in the 90 mins so we can all go out for the pubs and start celebrating early...

Well if Dida is a penalty expert then that's bad but Dudek's strongest side to his game is probably shot stopping. He's no penalty expert but everyone has their day and it'd be nice to see him step forward and make a positive name for himself...

uberwolf

p.pete wrote:

Well if Dida is a penalty expert then that's bad but Dudek's strongest side to his game is probably shot stopping. He's no penalty expert but everyone has their day and it'd be nice to see him step forward and make a positive name for himself...

90 minutes please. PLEASE. couldn't take penalties.

p.pete

uberwolf wrote:

90 minutes please. PLEASE. couldn't take penalties.

LOL, yeah true. The longer it goes on the more stressful - stress is fun sometimes when there's a great (and positive) release at the end of it but it can't be good for you.

2 goal cushion by half time and then no defensive slip-ups (fingers crossed)

redspider

uberwolf wrote:

90 minutes please. PLEASE. couldn't take penalties.

Yeah, I dont think anyone would look forward to penalties at this stage. Even Benitez is avoiding the issue to some extent (see below). However, if it gets to penalties, it all depends on the journey to that point. For example, if Milan deserved to win the game but somehow Liverpool held out, then the pressure would be on Milan players for the spot kicks and Liverpool players would be glad to have made it to that point. Likewise it could be the other way around.

Penalties are impossible to predict but both sides have potential mistakes within them. The greatest strikers can miss horribly (Kaka, Shev), the journey players can crumble under pressure (Trare, Biscan), etc. Basically, on any given day, anyone can miss a peno, misplace it, put it too close to the keeper, put it over the bar by 6 inches, etc.

Having said all that, I think Benitez should practice penalties. Penalty practice is shooting practice too so all players should be at it. Ignoring it completely does not instill me with confidence. The keeper should be talking penalty tactics, etc. Or maybe this is a ruse by Benitez, maybe they are practising, etc.



http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N148865050520-0833.htm

Rafael Benitez has revealed he won't be asking his Liverpool players to practise penalties in training as part of their preparations for the Champions League final.
The final will be decided on a shoot-out if the scores are level after 120 minutes of action, but the Liverpool boss feels practising penalties in training is a pointless exercise.

"I don't believe in practising penalties," he said. "In my opinion, the most important factor is how you feel on the day, not if you look good taking a penalty in training.

"You can look the best in practise, but then when you're in front of all the people inside the stadium, you may get afraid.

"I don't go into a game like this thinking it's going to go to penalties. I only think about winning the match. Maybe if we get to extra time, then I'll consider who takes penalties."



Redpider

PHB

Thats silly I think.

Does everyone else just get the feeling when watching penos that its about to be missed? Everybody sees some guy step up and they just know he is going to miss.
Its because of practice and acting like they are just playing with friends, they do this through some sort of technique or method.
Ruud has a specific method, he does the same thing every single peno, takes the same run up etc.
Ruud barely misses a peno, and neither does Shev Crespo or especially Pirlo.
None of that can be said about Liverpools team

Either way, penos are a strong possibility.
An Italian team vs. an Italian style team.

~Rebel~

Yeah, can often spot when someones gonna miss just by the way they're acting before they take it. Can a taker be replaced if manager thinks he looks dodgy just before taking it? Hard, high and straight down the middle is my personal choice, that or low and right if someones already put one middle..
ill be a wreck for days if its pens though...

eirebhoy

Just watching Milan's 2nd string v Palermo. The fans are singing a song to the tune of YNWA. If this was on the radio I could honestly have mistaking it for Anfield. What song are they singing? Seaneh?

ianomccabe

yeah i can vouch for that! Milan defo do sing the tune of YNWA!!
what the words are i dont know but they won't outsing us in Istanbul though!

jesus_thats_gre

jesus I was grand before reading this thread, now I am bricking it...

PHB

17. Abbiati, Christian
14. Simic, Dario
46. Marzoratti, Lino
5. Costacurta, Alessandro
26. Pancaro, Giuseppe
32. Brocchi, Christian
10. Costa, Rui
24. Dhorasoo, Vikash
27. Serginho, Claudio
15. Tomasson, Jon
11. Crespo, Hernan

Was Milan's lineup against Palermo
I think one of them might play against Liverpool
I don't think fatigue will be a major issue tbh

eirebhoy

HAHAHA, they actually sing YNWA in English. I knew I wasn't dreaming:
http://www.fdl.it/sound/fdl-you'll_never.mp3


Its actually a decent version.

Shred

Here's a post from RAWK about the origins of the Milan fans singing YNWA:


This is how the fans of the Curva Sud sing You'll Never Walk Alone today:

http://www.fdl.it/sound/fdl-you'll_never.mp3

It's a more original take on the song than other fans (many of the German, Dutch and *cough* Scottish clubs) who have faithfully echoed our rendition - the Milan fans have adapted the song and arranged their own version, turning it into a drum fuelled, staccato chant. It's uniquely Italian. Uniquely Milanese.

The Fossa Deo Leoni, their Ultras, have also produced a CD called ‘Da Liverpool a San Siro la leggenda continua’ (From Liverpool to San Siro the legend lives on) including live chants recorded at Anfield and at the San Siro (which I think is available from Johnny Mac over on RAOTL, thanks to his long established links with the Milan fans).

But it's another version of YNWA sang by the Milan fans that I want to talk about. It remains one of my most enduring (and emotional) memories in football. I was watching BBC's Sportsnight four days after Hillsborough. Numb to the bone as everyone was, I think it was my desperate attempt to find some football and to find some meaning to it all.

The programme was to throw up something so special it counteracted the absolute vile published by The S*n that very morning, a bile-inducing tissue of lies that saw us rushing to burn copies in the street or throw up in the nearest gutter.

Milan were playing Real Madrid in the second leg of the European Cup that night, having drawn 1-1 away. This was the great Milan, Sacchi's masterpiece (and as he later admitted, modelled on our four-time European Cup winning team) with the beautiful Dutch trio of Rijkaard, Van Basten and Gullit spearheading Baresi and Maldini's magnificent defence.

The mood on the TV show was perfunctory - football hardly seemed to matter, the presenter and commentators were on autopilot. I sat there, desperately clinging onto my latest crutch measuring 40% by volume, staring blankly at my black and white portable screen.

The game kicked off and not long in the referee blew his whistle and picked up the ball. It was a signal for a minute's silence. I, like many others I'm sure, was confused. I watched on as the the San Siro fell silent. Then slowly, but surely, a very moving and note perfect rendition of YNWA started to rise from the Curva Sud gaining in intensity as the minute went on.

I burst into tears. There's tears in my eyes as I type this. It remains to this day the quintessential act of solidarity by one group of fans to another. The game continued and Milan ran Madrid ragged, winning 5-0 in one of the greatest performances in the history of the competition. Their players and fans ascended to legendary status that night.

Because of that perfect act of kindness by the Milan fans in 1989 they have always had the utmost repsect by Liverpool fans (especially of my age). Of all the many things said and done by football fans all over the world after Hillsborough it remains for me the most moving, and unexpected moment.

This is how the Milan fans remember the day:

http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17693

c'è una canzone inglese che noi facciamo che è l'inno del Liverpool che è Walk on una canzone degli anni 60 che è stata presa dai tifosi del Liverpool come loro inno col ritornello che dice

Walk on walk on
with hope in your heart
and you'll never walk alone
you'll never walk alone

c'era uno di noi che aveva il disco con questi cori che lì da loro non c'è nessuno che li dirige col microfono partono spontaneamente parte questo Walk on che sembra un urlo che viene da lontano e così noi abbiamo cercato di impararla abbiamo dovuto fare i foglietti con su com'era scritto perché molti dicevano Welcome cioè benvenuto invece di Walk on camminiamo abbiamo spiegato che cosa voleva dire e tutto quanto finché siamo riusciti a impararla questa canzone e ci ha resi famosi in tutta Europa perché l'abbiamo fatta quando sono morti i tifosi del Liverpool schiacciati contro le transenne a Sheffield è successo al sabato e noi domenica avevamo la partita col Real Madrid di Coppa dei campioni che abbiamo vinto 5 a 0 una partita memorabile

avevamo preparato uno striscione con scritto SHEFFIELD YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE c'era il minuto di silenzio e noi eravamo pronti per fare la canzone e mettere fuori lo striscione invece l'arbitro uno svedese ha fatto iniziare subito la partita noi mettiamo fuori lo striscione ma la cosa sembrava finita li poi però di colpo lui ferma il gioco e si mette la palla ai piedi per il minuto di silenzio cazzo io lì in quel momento non avevo neanche il microfono sono salito sulla transenna e senza microfono come fanno loro siamo partiti con questa canzone c'ho il video a casa ogni tanto lo rivedo e mi viene la pelle d'oca tutti i giocatori sull'attenti poi si sente tutto lo stadio in piedi a applaudire si vede l'arbitro che guarda verso di me perché sente il coro si vede benissimo il coro che sale And you'll never walk alone anche adesso che lo dico mi emoziono l'hanno fatto vedere per 6 mesi su tutte le reti inglesi almeno una volta al giorno lo facevano vedere sono arrivate tante di quelle lettere di tifosi inglesi voi siete dei veri amici e per tutta la vita noi saremo sempre vostri amici

Leoni armati
stiam marciando
siam la FOSSA DEI LEON...
dei..leon..leon..leon...
leon...leon...
siam la FOSSA DEI LEON !!!
sangue ! violenza!
FOSSA DEI LEONI !!!
Milan ! Milan ! Milan !

This is a translation from matty on ynwa.tv:

There is an English song we sing which is the Anthem of Liverpool, a song from the 60s with a chorus that goes:

Walk on walk on
with hope in your heart
and you'll never walk alone
you'll never walk alone

One of us had the record with these words, but for them (Liverpool) there is nobody who leads with the microphone, the words seem to come like a shout from afar. So we have tried to learn the words using a printed sheet because many said 'welcome' instead of 'walk on' and also what the words actually meant. We succeeded in learning the song and it made us famous in all Europe because we sang it when the Liverpool fans died at Sheffield and we played Real Madrid in the Semi final of the Champions cup won 5-0.

We had prepared a banner with Sheffield You'll Never Walk Alone. There was the minute's silence and we were ready to unfurl the banner and sing the song but instead the Swedish referee started the game immediately. We unfurl the banner but the moment seemed lost, but then the referee stopped play and began the [f***ed up] silence. At that moment I didn't even have a microphone, we started as they (liverpool) do with the song. I have the video at home and every so often I look at it again, my hair stands up, all the players and crowd applaud and the referee looks towards me because it is so well known, this song, and the chorus rises 'you'll never walk alone' and it was shown so many times on the English TV networks, and I received many letters from English fans. You are true friends and we are always your friends.

Armed Lions!
We are marching
We are the Lion's cave
the lions, lions, lions, lions
We are the lion's cave
Blood! Violence!
The Lion's cave!
Milan! Milan! Milan!

The 25th May 2005 will see the meeting of two great clubs and two great sets of fans in Istanbul. It's the first time the two clubs have met in a competitive match, yet it smells, feels, tastes and sounds like THE classic fixture, THE gran clasico of European football. Let's remember that day back in 1989, let's both sing You'll Never Walk Alone and let's show the world how special football can be.

PHB

Over in the United game, Milan had about 3 of the songs that United fans sing changed to something in Italian with the same tempo etc. It was ****ing impressive.
If you think Anfield was impressive atmosphere wise, you've no idea what Italian, specifically Milan, fans are like, they are nuts

ianomccabe

I've been to a milan game in the san siro and i have to say that although the atmosphere was impressive it paled in comparison to the Liverpool v Juve and Liverpool v Chelsea champs league games this year

case n basket

ianomccabe wrote:

I've been to a milan game in the san siro and i have to say that although the atmosphere was impressive it paled in comparison to the Liverpool v Juve and Liverpool v Chelsea champs league games this year

And who was the Milan game against? Barcelona? Juventus? Inter Milan?

ianomccabe

it was against barcelona in october. Although i am a biased Liverpool fan i can honestly hold my hands up and say that i doubt i will ever get the feeling i got sittin in anfield v Juve and v Chelsea. It was just unexplainable and something that i've never experienced and i could never describe.

I'm sure there are plenty on here that would disagree though but thats me!

uberwolf

Baros has been on claiming the advantage over Stam - saying that they've met a number of times in Czech Republic vs Holland games and has always played well. He's also citing a preseason friendly this year against them that he scored in.

If memory serves, he's right...

~Rebel~

Heres the interview uberwolf was talking about, worth a bit of a read if only to give some credit back to baros, he's had a bad spell but he's obviously a good player, this shows he has a bit of desire left in him too..
- http://www.reuters.com/locales/c_newsArticle.jsp?type=sportsNews&localeKey=en_IN&storyID=8573060

Milan Baros is planning to use Michael Owen's example to become Liverpool's hero in the Champions League final on Wednesday.

Baros is vying with Djibril Cisse for a place in attack against AC Milan after being demoted to a substitute's role in the League Cup final defeat by Chelsea in February.

"Maybe I can follow Michael Owen," said Baros. "He was on the bench for the League Cup Final in 2001 but in the FA Cup final a few months later scored the winning goals (in the 2-1 win over Arsenal). That would be nice.

"The fact I didn't play in the last final makes this one of the biggest games of my life. You may only get one chance to play in the Champions League final. It's a dream for everyone to win this trophy."

Czech striker Baros has not scored in his last 10 Liverpool appearances and admits his future at the club is unclear after the return to fitness of Cisse and the arrival of Fernando Morientes from Real Madrid.

STILL COMMITTED

"I'm still committed to Liverpool and I still have a contract here," he said. "We can sort out what's happening with me after the final, but all I want to focus on for now is the Champions League and we'll be discussing my position later."

Baros believes he can make an impact in the final after coming out on top against Milan's Dutch defender Jaap Stam in recent meetings, including scoring in a 3-2 win over the Netherlands at Euro 2004 in the group stage.

"I played against AC Milan in a pre-season tournament in Madrid, which was one of the most important games for me. We won 2-1 and I scored," he said.

"As for Stam, I've played a lot of games against him. The Czech Republic and Holland seem to face each other every six months. I have a lot of good memories of playing against them, particularly from Euro 2004.

"Maybe I have a little advantage over him psychologically because I've done well against him in the past, but everyone knows he's a great defender," added Baros.

"No game is ever the same so you can't say what I've done before will make a difference but it will give me confidence."

redspider

A spanish ref has been appointed:

"It was also announced that Spain's Manuel Enrique Gonzalez will be the referee. The 40-year-old Gonzalez has been a referee in the Spanish top flight since 1995 and in international games since 1999. He will be familiar with the teams having refereed their 3-1 win over Olympiakos at the group stage and AC Milan's 1-0 win over Man Utd."


I guess that could be some sort of an advantage, with the Spanish link at Liverpool. Alonso will be able to communicate with him as will Garcia, etc. On the other hand, the ref may "over compensate" and penalise the "spanish flavoured" Liverpool. I guess I dont want to encourage or endorse Ref favouritism, lets hope its a fair game and that Liverpool win it fair and square with goals "100% over the line". But if there is any favouritism going, I hope its going Liverpool's way. Every little bit helps.

Redspider

MrJoeSoap

Liverpool to wear red, milan to wear white.

cruiserweight

Yep the four times Liverpool have won it they wore red and defeated teams in white!

MrJoeSoap

Don't believe the signs though. I can't ever remember coincidences like these serving teams well in the past (although obviously they did for Liverpool on the last three occasions they won the European Cup).

[Aside, to self] Oh shut up Joe, your even confusing yourself!