The WhiteVan Speed Camera

jasonh

About a cpl of months ago, did anyone see the speed camera that is hidden in the whitevan. The back doors of the whitevan are white'd out apart from a slit that allows the lense to view thru.

I have a couple of questions re: speed cameras, etc..


1. Would it be illegal to start a website that informs subscribers of where the garda are with the white van or with their sniper hand held cameras?
Drivers and pedestrians could keep this website up-to-date.

2. Is it not an infringement of civil rights to camouflage a speed camera in such a way as the white van? I suppose if you are speeding you are breaking the law. But I thought in england they have to put signs up where the speed cameras are.

3. How long do you think it would take to get a ticket thru the post after being caught on one of them whitevan speed traps?

4. R the whitevan traps manned or are they just set up and left there unmanned.

Dundhoone

1. Some muppet already did this, cant seem to find it now though

2. Nope, and wouldnt it be a bit hard to catch anyone if you stuck a sign up saying speed trap next 500m?

3. A couple of weeks from what I've heard.

4. Manned.

Neuro

jasonh wrote:

3. How long do you think it would take to get a ticket thru the post after being caught on one of them whitevan speed traps?

I got caught by this very van two months ago. I received the ticket by registered post about a week later.

tabatha

The organizations taking part must agree to new guidelines on making the cameras highly visible by painting them yellow. The guidelines also mean that cameras must not be obscured by road signs, bridges, trees or bushes. They must be clearly visible from 60m where the speed limit is 40mph or below, and from 100m in all other areas. Warning signs must be placed within 1km of cameras. Mobile camera operators must wear fluorescent clothing. Camera site visibility must be reviewed every six months.

The cameras must only be sited only where either four people have been killed or seriously injured in the previous three years, or where there have been eight 'personal injury accidents' 500 metres either side of the camera over the previous three years.

this is england rules on speed cameras...

jasonh

Dundhoone wrote:

1. Some muppet already did this, cant seem to find it now though

2. Nope, and wouldnt it be a bit hard to catch anyone if you stuck a sign up saying speed trap next 500m?

3. A couple of weeks from what I've heard.

4. Manned.

Dundhoone - sounds like you're all for them then?
As in Tabatha's reply - I think england have the right idea.
To me it just seems like a money earner for the garda. Which is the not the point of speed traps. Speeds traps are to help reduce the amount of accidents in an accident prone area - not to top up the coffers for the garda xmas party.

LegacyUser

Also, these GATSO vans aren't always the same colour from month to month. Apparently it's in their operational budgets to be sprayed every now and then with a magnetic paint.

jasonh

Buckfast wrote:

Also, these GATSO vans aren't always the same colour from month to month. Apparently it's in their operational budgets to be sprayed every now and then with a magnetic paint.

Magnetic Paint! Whats that for? So they can stick on different colour panels?

Would it be dodgy to start posting on the galway board where and when we see these GATSO (what does that stand for) vans or in fact the sniper ones.

Obviously I don't wont to get in trouble - but I think its only fair we have a few things up our sleeves as well, considering that they are being sneaky.

TheLedge

Dundhoone wrote:

wouldnt it be a bit hard to catch anyone if you stuck a sign up saying speed trap next 500m?

You'd be surprised. I live in England and despite there being numerous warnings about speed cameras etc, sometimes youre just not aware what the speed limit is, and they catch you that way, as well as the people who are just not concentrating.

Speed cameras are supposed to be a method of improving road safety but in many cases in the UK, and for sure in Ireland, councils will use them as revenue collectors. I bought myself a radar detector for my car here. theyre perfectly legal since somebody challenged it in the courts in the late 90's. His argument was that the detector would warn him of accident blackspots. Nice.

I'm not a speeder by any stretch of the imagination, but sometimes you can be going 4/5 mph over and not realise it, or be in an unfamiliar territory and miss out on the signs.

Galway sounds awful these days with the mobile trucks and whatnot. If they dont clamp you now, theyll get you with the radar. Mind you, in around town you'd hardly be breaking any speedlimits with the car park like traffic. It's good to know nothing's changed... :rolleyes:

Dundhoone

jasonh wrote:

Dundhoone - sounds like you're all for them then?

In a word, yes.
There arent enough speed traps on Irish roads in my opinion. In (most) places the speed limit is correct for the area you are driving in.
While im against speeding, im also against slow driving - its that car at the head of a row of traffic doing 40 in a 60 mile zone that causes serious headache.

Really can't believe that you think the guards are "being sneaky" by using a disguised van to catch speeders.

secret_squirrel

tabatha wrote:

The organizations taking part must agree to new guidelines on making the cameras highly visible by painting them yellow. The guidelines also mean that cameras must not be obscured by road signs, bridges, trees or bushes. They must be clearly visible from 60m where the speed limit is 40mph or below, and from 100m in all other areas. Warning signs must be placed within 1km of cameras. Mobile camera operators must wear fluorescent clothing. Camera site visibility must be reviewed every six months.

The cameras must only be sited only where either four people have been killed or seriously injured in the previous three years, or where there have been eight 'personal injury accidents' 500 metres either side of the camera over the previous three years.

this is england rules on speed cameras...

Unfortunately most of that only applies to fixed camera's thats why most of the revenue collection has been switched to mobile camera's in Vans - they can park any where and dont have to be as visible. Thus meaning more money for the theiving scumbags.

LegacyUser

jasonh wrote:

Magnetic Paint! Whats that for? So they can stick on different colour panels?

No, so they can make it invisible. Ask a stupid question .... Anyway, colour is change by electrical pulse.

jasonh wrote:

Would it be dodgy to start posting on the galway board where and when we see these GATSO (what does that stand for) vans or in fact the sniper ones.[/GATSO]

Not sure the mods would like that. There used to be a website — speedtraps dot something or other which logged them all.

GATSO came from the Dutch company that makes the detection equipment, Gatsometer BV.

jasonh

Buckfast - you seem quite knowledgable about these things.

Here's one for ya - If I got caught and they sent me a speeding fine, I've got a UK drivers license, what will happen to the penalty points?

Thanks for all this info - I'm finding it very interesting.

TheLedge

jasonh wrote:

Here's one for ya - If I got caught and they sent me a speeding fine, I've got a UK drivers license, what will happen to the penalty points?

Similarly, but not identical, my friend in UK who has Irish driving license was caught doing 62 in a 50mph zone. Because it wasnt straightforward to apply fine and points to iirish license, he recieved a court summons(but didnt attend) and the outcome was a normal 80 quid fine, plus 30 quid court expenses, but most importantly, NO penalty points.

This happens quite regularly along the border regions in Ireland. There is no syngery between the law enforcement agencies wrt the driving fines etc. The Gardai themselves know it's pointless to give speeding tickets to drivers from the North because they never pay them anyway. I have a friend in Fermanagh who gets away with it all the time. I suspect the same would apply to you, although it might depend on your address or your car registration. They could still haul your ass before the courts, and possibly surrender your license for an Irish one so the points could be added. I'm just speculating now because i've thought about surrendering my Irish license for an English one now that i'm in the UK, just in case such a scenario should arise.

LegacyUser

jasonh wrote:

Here's one for ya - If I got caught and they sent me a speeding fine, I've got a UK drivers license, what will happen to the penalty points?

Well, for a start, if you didn't have the licence in the car with you when stopped, that's 2 penalty points. Then, if you fail to produce the licence at the station within 10 days, you will be summonsed for failing to produce the licence.

That'll lead to all sorts of sh!t as to whether [in law] you are insured or not because you're on a UK licence in Ireland (and probably UK insurance??), so things will probably get a good deal worse for you! Under an irish insurance policy (and the courts), a UK licence is not recognised, so you would be prosecuted for having no licence and therefore, technically no insurance.

I know that when a licence is endorsed (for other offences under the Road Traffic Act) by an Irish court, it applies throughout the EU.

To answer your question, AFAIK penalty points cannot be applied, but you can end up in a whole pile of other poo poo.

TheLedge

Buckfast wrote:

That'll lead to all sorts of sh!t as to whether [in law] you are insured or not because you're on a UK licence in Ireland (and probably UK insurance??), so things will probably get a good deal worse for you! Under an irish insurance policy (and the courts), a UK licence is not recognised, so you would be prosecuted for having no licence and therefore, technically no insurance.

That's rubbish. Are you saying then that any tourist who rents a car in Ireland is technically uninsured?

A UK license here is the same as an Irish license in the UK(or spain, france etc.). Not to recognise it would be discriminatory.

This is aside from the fact that qualified drivers in the UK are light years ahead in ability than Irish drivers. They have far more rigorous testing procedures and a much superior road infrastructure with which to drive on.

jasonh

Buckfast - I'm not sure if you're right on this one.

I've lived in Ireland for 3yrs have and Irish reg'd car and I have Irish insurance - (Hibernian). I have been with 2 different Irish insurers and both accepted my UK license no problem - they took photocopies n all. I think from a insurance side I might not qualify for certain discounts (not many thou). For example, they phoned me up and said that if I allowed them to use my dvlc licence number to check for penalty points (data protection act or something) then I could have a 10% discount. But I said I had a UK one (which I would have thought they already new), they said I didn't qualify and he hung up.

When I moved over, I was going to convert my UK DVLC to an Irish one. But everyone who I spoke to said don't do it, you'd be mad to. For one thing, you don't need to take the test again (till your a pensioner) with the UK one.

SO i'm still confused on what IS legal with regards to living here, driving here, having an irish reg car + insurance and holding a UK dvlc!

LegacyUser

TheLedge wrote:

A UK license here is the same as an Irish license in the UK(or spain, france etc.). Not to recognise it would be discriminatory.

Well perhaps you should point that out to every solicitor that appears in the District Courts here. Oh, and barristers in the Appeals Court too. They seem to be unaware of it.

You can drive here certainly, but if the Irish State is your normal place of residence, you are expected to have a full irish licence — granted, the fine will only be €10 or €20, but it's still recorded as a conviction. If he wanted, the DPP could *technically* pursue a case against you for having no insurance, although the Supreme Court ruled in 2001 that if you make a false declaration when taking out an insurance policy (lie about age, accidents, or licence etc.), the insurance company must honour Third Party cover.

TheLedge

Buckfast wrote:

Under an irish insurance policy (and the courts), a UK licence is not recognised, so you would be prosecuted for having no licence and therefore, technically no insurance

Taken from http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/exchanging_foreign_driving_permit.html?

"With effect from 1st May, 2004 ten new member states joined the EU (the full list of these new states is outlined below). Full driving licences from these member states are recognised for driving and insurance purposes in Ireland. "

jasonh

BINGO!

Thanks TheLedge for the link to the oasis gov site.
I knew I had seen this somewhere before, but couldn't find it again.
So with regards to UK drivers licence being valid in Ireland for driving and Insurance AND the issue of applying penalty points are:

With effect from 1st May, 2004 ten new member states joined the EU (the full list of these new states is outlined below). Full driving licences from these member states are recognised for driving and insurance purposes in Ireland.

If you are driving on foreign driving licence in Ireland and acquire penalty points here, you will receive the normal statutory fine but the penalty points will not be added to your foreign driving licence. If you subsequently exchange your foreign driving licence for an Irish driving licence, your Irish penalty points will then be activated on your new Irish driving licence.


From what I can gather, reading between the lines, they have to accept EU driver licences, because of problems/delays in exchanging your EU licence for and Irish one.

And with regards to penalty points, as it states in oasis:

Penalty points and endorsements on driving licences acquired in other states (including EU/EEA member states) are not recognised between states. This is because these penalties have been issued by courts in other jurisdictions.

Buckfast - I think you stand corrected.

Mind you - I can't see this being the case in the future. When all the EU countries get there act together, I wouldn't be surprised if we have an EU wide licence and penalty point system.

But I'm quite happy to hold onto my UK drivers licence as long as I can and avoid the points. Not that I'm going to go round driving like a nutcase now that I know.

TheLedge

The Oasis site is a great resource.

Just as a matter of interest jason, where did you get your UK license? What I mean is, did you do the test over there, or just surrender your irish one?(I know its a central application to the DVLA in Swansea)
I'm thinking of doing this, for the obvious reasons when i come back to galway in the next year or two! :eek:

jasonh

I'm originally from england so I did the test over there.

My brother-in-law who is from galway, actually went over to england, did his test over there and got a UK one.

LegacyUser

TheLedge wrote:

"With effect from 1st May, 2004

Ahh balls ... I left a court-related profession in January 04, that's probably why I didn't know that. Well up until the law changed, what I posted was the case.

*hangs head in shame*

jasonh

Buckfast - no worries, at least we got the situation clarified, thats the great thing about this forum!

Like I said before - I can't see this being the case in the future, sounds like it could be really abused.

LegacyUser

jasonh wrote:

I can't see this being the case in the future, sounds like it could be really abused.

Couldn't agree more

TheLedge

jasonh wrote:

sounds like it could be really abused.

...and abused it shall be!

(but it's not a license to speed i should point out...)

Marcopolo85

TheLedge wrote:

...and abused it shall be!

I cannot belive that people can be so flippant about speeding. One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread is DEATH caused by speeding. I would respectfully suggest that everyone grow up, take responsibility and obey the limits that are there. Is it too much to ask? Trying to avoid being caught speeding is as bad as the brain-dead morons who drink and drive.

And before you get all indignant and self-righteous about civil liberties, spare a thought for all those families who have been decimated by death caused by speedsters or drunk drivers. What about their civil liberties and rights? :mad:

TheLedge

What I meant by my comment, and I'm sure jason will back me up on this, is that by having a UK license it's a way of not getting penalty points.(which ends up costing a fortune in insurance discounts!)

It's not about a LICENSE TO SPEED! It's about not getting caught 'breaking' the speed limit!! People are being prosecuted for doing 31 mph in a 30 zone! thats ridiculous! Is that speeding? Not in my book. If you have ever driven a car in your life, i'm sure you've broken the speed limit at some stage, and if you say you haven't, youre a liar!

I'm a very responsible driver, and by no means a speed demon as you have wrongly taken up.

Marcopolo85

TheLedge wrote:

What I meant by my comment, and I'm sure jason will back me up on this, is that by having a UK license it's a way of not getting penalty points.(which ends up costing a fortune in insurance discounts!)

It's not about a LICENSE TO SPEED! It's about not getting caught 'breaking' the speed limit!! People are being prosecuted for doing 31 mph in a 30 zone! thats ridiculous! Is that speeding? Not in my book. If you have ever driven a car in your life, i'm sure you've broken the speed limit at some stage, and if you say you haven't, youre a liar!

I'm a very responsible driver, and by no means a speed demon as you have wrongly taken up.

Yes I agree - we have all broken the speed limit at some stage, but it's been many a year now since I did. And while I quoted from your post I was not aiming at you. I stand by my comments. The 31 in a 30 zone is a very selective comment, when the general issue is, let's say, 55 in a 40, or 80 in a 60.

I have absolutely NO SYMPATHY for those caught - prosecute every single one of them. I have less sympathy for those posting on forums like trying to find ways of avoiding prosecution. A pack of morons the whole lot of them! :mad:

TheLedge

This is obviously a passionate subject for you. I can see where youre coming from though, obviously, but you have to admit that some of the speed limits around Galway are a joke. Theyre totally inadequate. Some are too fast, and some are too slow. It's a judgement call you have to make yourself, unfortunately you do have morons who speed everywhere regardless.

To try to get a 'definition of sorts' for speeding is maybe to use this.

The rule of thumb for prosection over here is SPEED LIMIT + 10% + 2mph before prosecution, ie 35mph in 30mph zone =speeding, 57 in a 50 etc.

I think this a better way of sending the message out.

jasonh

yes - this whole uk driver licence things wasn't to abuse the speed limit thing. I was just trying to understand the status quo.

My first enquiry was about these GATSO vans - they are parking up in place that they know they will catch people speeding - not accident prone areas.
For example the GATSO van was hidden on that dual carriage way from tuam rd roadabout to the headford road roundabout. Now that is blatant revenue generation for the garda. The speed limit, which I think is 50kph, is absolutely stupid. I presume its that speed limit coz it could be classed as a built up area. but come on.

just to put the record straight - I've been driving for 18yrs (since i was 17yrs old) and I have had no speeding convictions either in the UK, USA (CHIPS) or Ireland.

secret_squirrel

Buckfast wrote:

Ahh balls ... I left a court-related profession in January 04, that's probably why I didn't know that. Well up until the law changed, what I posted was the case.
*hangs head in shame*

ACtually you were wrong - the 2004 thing is only the New Member states. A uk license has been valid over here for years - its a fundamental part of EU harmonisation. I've been getting Irish insurance quotes for years based on driving in Ireland and holding a UK license.

However, there is a lot of talk about linking up the Irish and UK licensing computers in the next couple of years - specifically to apply convictions.

marcopolo wrote:

this thread is DEATH caused by speeding

Calm down - breaking the speed limit does not cause deaths. Inapproriate speeding causes deaths - there is a world of difference.