The WhiteVan Speed Camera

Marcopolo85

secret_squirrel wrote:

Calm down - breaking the speed limit does not cause deaths. Inapproriate speeding causes deaths - there is a world of difference.

CALM DOWN?! you cannot be serious! How do you discriminate between both? If you break the speed limit (which is there for a reason - i.e. to limit your vehicle to a speed at which you retain control) by 'inappropriate' speeding or by just plain speeding the end result is the same.

It makes you no different, say, to a certain politician whose antics beggared belief recently. :mad:

Robbo

Marcopolo85 wrote:

It makes you no different, say, to a certain politician whose antics beggared belief recently. :mad:

I really don't see what Conor Linehan has do with.....oh wait, you're throwing in a strawman...

Carry on...

And if this becomes a debate speed limits/speeding/how whole families and villages have been razed to the ground because of speeding, I really think it should be moved to a more appropriate forum.

Marcopolo85

Robbo wrote:

I really don't see what Conor Linehan has do with.....oh wait, you're throwing in a strawman...

Carry on...

And if this becomes a debate speed limits/speeding/how whole families and villages have been razed to the ground because of speeding, I really think it should be moved to a more appropriate forum.

Conor Lenihan..I believe it was Jim McDaid. Typical Irish solution to a not-so-Irish problem. Let's move it somewhere else and it won't actually be a problem. :mad:

Robbo

Marcopolo85 wrote:

Conor Lenihan..I believe it was Jim McDaid. Typical Irish solution to a not-so-Irish problem. Let's move it somewhere else and it won't actually be a problem. :mad:

If only there was an emoticon for slapping one's forehead in frustration...

Marcopolo85

Robbo wrote:

If only there was an emoticon for slapping one's forehead in frustration...

Touch a nerve?

rander00

Originally Posted by secret_squirrel

Calm down - breaking the speed limit does not cause deaths. Inapproriate speeding causes deaths - there is a world of difference.

Originally Posted by Marcopolo85

CALM DOWN?! you cannot be serious! How do you discriminate between both? If you break the speed limit (which is there for a reason - i.e. to limit your vehicle to a speed at which you retain control) by 'inappropriate' speeding or by just plain speeding the end result is the same.

Touch a nerve?

Gawd, your so thick. You seem very touchy yourself on the whole "speeding" topic. If you cant see the difference between doing 35 in a 30 zone or 60 in a 50 zone, ect,..... with the real speeding of 80 and 90 in 50/60 zones your a retard or majourily politically correct.

Whats has you so bothered anyway, did your pet kitten get run over on the road? Boo Hoo!

Marcopolo85

rander00 wrote:

Originally Posted by secret_squirrel


Originally Posted by Marcopolo85





Gawd, your so thick. You seem very touchy yourself on the whole "speeding" topic. If you cant see the difference between doing 35 in a 30 zone or 60 in a 50 zone, ect,..... with the real speeding of 80 and 90 in 50/60 zones your a retard or majourily politically correct.

Whats has you so bothered anyway, did your pet kitten get run over on the road? Boo Hoo!

No, sunshine - as usual it takes a moron like you to validate the argument. Speeding, whether it be by a small or large amount, is both dangerous and lethal. Until idiots like you are educated to the risks, nothing will change. Cop yourself on and grow up......a car is not a toy - in the wrong hands it is a murder weapon. The speeding 'topic' as you so eloquently describe it causes the deaths (proven statistics) of hundreds of Irish people each year.

The 'retards' (just like to point out to you that terms like THAT are politically incorrect) are the ones who persist in both speeding and trying to avoid being caught doing it.

Mind if I ask if you're a member of that bunch of brain dead losers? :mad:

Robbo

Marcopolo85 wrote:

Touch a nerve?

Oh totally, I feel that irony should be taught mandatorily at schools.

TheLedge

Robbo wrote:

Oh totally, I feel that irony should be taught mandatorily at schools.

Class!

edmund_f

Marcopolo85 wrote:

The speeding 'topic' as you so eloquently describe it causes the deaths (proven statistics) of hundreds of Irish people each year.

just to argue the point more than anything, the figures that the irish gov. roll out on all the ads 'slow down boys' and other such nonsense are based on the world health orginisation. these are worldwide figures, including such places as india, africa etc check it out for yourself http://www.who.int/en/ it is almost amusing to note that once your are over about 50 (kph) you are pretty much certain to kill a person if you hit them, thus if the statististics in the WHO report are to used correctly ALL speed limits should be 50kph.

it appears the irish gov. have given up trying to teach us how to drive, or enforce good driving, all they want to do is for us to mame each other than kill.

speed does not kill, it is the rapid deceleration

LegacyUser

secret_squirrel wrote:

ACtually you were wrong - the 2004 thing is only the New Member states.

OH NO I'M NOT! The District Court Area of No. 7 in Galway (basically the Galway West Garda District) had been convicting people for having no driving licence if they only had a UK licence and were normally resident in this State. FACT. Perhaps this is no longer the case, but they certainly were between 1998 to 2004.

Marcopolo85

edmund_f wrote:

speed does not kill, it is the rapid deceleration

For God's sake - that's like saying a glass is half-full instead of half-empty. There is no excusing this juvenile, idiotic behaviour. The people that practice it are brain-dead. :mad:

edmund_f

perhaps, but a more accurate analogy may be 'guns dont kill people, people do' which is better, an 80km/hr bad driver on the wrong side of the road, or a 160km/hr good driver on the correct side of the road?.

either way it is not up to us to enforce this (unless you are a cop), think the argument is the useless enforcement which allow these 'juvenile, idiotic', 'brain-dead' people (a) out on the road and (b) continue to stay on the road. Personally think the above description can be more aptly applied to our guardians of the peace.

magpie

~sigh - here goes~

As anyone with a brain capable of discerning fact from government propaganda can tell, Speed per se does not kill.

If there was one factor that caused road deaths in Ireland it is our roads which are almost universally substandard despite years of EU subsidies to modernise our communications.

Hardly any accidents happen on motorways or dual carriageways, despite the high speeds that can be attained on these roads.

The 'Speed Kills' campaign is a cynical (though successful - judging by how many people always trot it out) attempt by the government to divert 'guilt' away from themselves and onto individual drivers.

If they hadn't p1ssed away the results of the most successful economic period in Ireland's history and had actually used some of the money to improve roads (rather than say the €300M that the tribunals are set to cost - or the €765M they spunked away on the pointless Luas) maybe casualties would come down.

Good ol' Fianna Fail.

jasonh

I think one of the main problems over here - is this thing of provincial licence holders driving on their own. I've never seen something so stupid.
Can someone explain why they're allowed to do this - or is it a case of everyone turning a blind eye - maybe cos of the backlog of driving tests.

Isn't there another stupid thing of the government giving full licences to people who had been driving for a certain length of time, pre 70's or something?

I think it's a combination of all sorts of things:
farmers who think they can drink drive cos they live in the countryside and drive slowly
kids who live in the countryside and have nothing to do but drive around
the state of the roads
people overtaking 20 cars at a time
people driving on provincial licences without a fully licenced adult with them
people not using indicators
people not knowing how to use roundabouts
people who drive with full beam on and don't care if they blind oncoming traffic
people who drive with 1 headlight on (1 eyed jacks) or sometimes no full lights on
people who think they are vigilantes and drive in the passing lane at 50kph just to teach people who drive faster than them a lesson or 2
I could go on....but whats the point

Robbo

jasonh wrote:

people overtaking 20 cars at a time

Add to that people who spend far too much time on the wrong side of the road when overtaking.

Marcopolo85

edmund_f wrote:

perhaps, but a more accurate analogy may be 'guns dont kill people, people do' which is better, an 80km/hr bad driver on the wrong side of the road, or a 160km/hr good driver on the correct side of the road?.

either way it is not up to us to enforce this (unless you are a cop), think the argument is the useless enforcement which allow these 'juvenile, idiotic', 'brain-dead' people (a) out on the road and (b) continue to stay on the road. Personally think the above description can be more aptly applied to our guardians of the peace.

Obviously you have issues with the Guards........still doesn't excuse anyone from speeding (or whatever ye choose to call it). All you're doing is splitting hairs. If everyone obeyed the correct limit the problems would be greatly reduced - it's as simple as that. :mad:

edmund_f

yes, i have problems with the cops, my main personal opinion is that they are useless, but that would be an argument for another day (thread?).

if the only factor you change in an accident is the speed, all you are doing is reducing the risk of serious injury or death.

Personally i would prefer to avoid the accident in the first place, and i believe that is the place to start. Speeding is an easy traget.

Teach people how to drive, properly. Personally i would suggest the irish advanced driving school. Teach some manners on the road, as per all of the things you see day to day on our roads except speeding.

The speed limits set are the limits as set out by law, they are far from the limit if what most modern cars will do. An accident at X kph or an accident at Y kph is still an accident and based on about a million other factors will decide the severity of the accident.

to say the limit is the limit is correct but very shortsighted, there are a lot of other things that need to be dealt with first. Constantly harping on about speed 'kills' is just diverting time energy and money from actually sorting the other problems out. (i am referring to the goverment here).

one thing you may think over is the statistics
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/nroadstats.html
2001 411 dead, introduce penalty points 2002 by 2003 deaths down to 335! thus speed kills?..2004 375, 2005, about 20 above the 2004 figure to date. We have slowed down, but yet deaths are going back up?.

it may not be much of a leap of logic to assume that 'speed kills' is a temporary fix. you can get people to slow down and mame instead of kill, but until people learn to drive at all speeds things are not going to get any better.

Personally i prefer to drive to the conditions, as safe as possible and to the best of my ability, not to an arbitary limit.

Marcopolo85

edmund_f wrote:

yes, i have problems with the cops, my main personal opinion is that they are useless, but that would be an argument for another day (thread?).

if the only factor you change in an accident is the speed, all you are doing is reducing the risk of serious injury or death.

Personally i would prefer to avoid the accident in the first place, and i believe that is the place to start. Speeding is an easy traget.

Teach people how to drive, properly. Personally i would suggest the irish advanced driving school. Teach some manners on the road, as per all of the things you see day to day on our roads except speeding.

The speed limits set are the limits as set out by law, they are far from the limit if what most modern cars will do. An accident at X kph or an accident at Y kph is still an accident and based on about a million other factors will decide the severity of the accident.

to say the limit is the limit is correct but very shortsighted, there are a lot of other things that need to be dealt with first. Constantly harping on about speed 'kills' is just diverting time energy and money from actually sorting the other problems out. (i am referring to the goverment here).

one thing you may think over is the statistics
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/nroadstats.html
2001 411 dead, introduce penalty points 2002 by 2003 deaths down to 335! thus speed kills?..2004 375, 2005, about 20 above the 2004 figure to date. We have slowed down, but yet deaths are going back up?.

it may not be much of a leap of logic to assume that 'speed kills' is a temporary fix. you can get people to slow down and mame instead of kill, but until people learn to drive at all speeds things are not going to get any better.

Personally i prefer to drive to the conditions, as safe as possible and to the best of my ability, not to an arbitary limit.

All very fine, but you, like some others, have two basic problems:

1. A chip on your shoulder with the Gardaí/authorities

2. Using that very same chip to justify a juvenlile habit which anyone with even one brain cell can see causes untold death, destruction, AND MAYHEM.

You can dress it up whatever way you like - SPEED DOES KILL! :mad:

Actually that should read: THE IDIOTS WHO SPEED KILL! :mad: :mad: :mad:

jasonh

MarcoPolo - before your last post there - I was quite willing to listen to your side of the argument.

Now - after that useless attempt of a reply - obviously you don't have anything construtive to say.

LADS/LASSIES - don't bother replying to this fool anymore, ya wasting ya fingers typing.

AS the instigator of this thread - can I delete the thread?

BTW - has anyone read today's Galway Indie - about swapping points - in the article the RAC suggest that:

"Fixed cameras are not a solution to dangerous driving, people become aware of where they are, slow down and then speed up again. They are INDISCRIMINATE and a blunt instrument"

RAC would discourage the widespread use of GATSO or fixed camera. A Far preferable measure in the fight against speeding is a more visible garda presence on our roads.

WELL - I agree. I have no problem with that.

jasonh

Before anybody tries to use my spelling mistakes as a mark of a thick person:

Sorry for spelling constructive wrong.

edmund_f

jasonh wrote:

AS the instigator of this thread - can I delete the thread?

Probably a wise plan, but i would like the oppurtunity to reply..

as far a 'chip' on my shoulder.. if you mean that i expect and demand a certain level of professionlism and service from the cops, then so be it 'chip' it is. Make no mistake about it, they are a service, just the same as eircom, bord gais etc etc. if any other goverment/ semi state body tried to do what they are doing i imagine it would not last very long. Imagine the customs only searching boats, as all drugs must come in that way?. The deaths on our roads are a complicated issue, not as simple as 'speed kills'. Gatso's parked on dual carrrageways just annoy. They will not catch the people who speed recklessly.

Just saying something does not make it true, speed is a conisderable contributing factor to road deaths, but i believe there are several other factors which must be dealt with first. If you are going to deal with speed, deal with it, do not basically entrap people at low speed limits and covert detection.

if you decide speed kills, so be it, you are entitled to your opinion. Nothing you seem to say addresses in any way shape or form any of the other issues. I believe the cops have a similar viewpoint to you, which is why they hide behind the speeding, with no other form of discernable enforcement of the road traffic laws. To go out on a limb here, you sound brainwashed, you are not even willing to listen to any other point of view, if we all drive at 50kph everything would be perfect?.

Marcopolo85

jasonh wrote:

LADS/LASSIES - don't bother replying to this fool anymore, ya wasting ya fingers typing.

AS the instigator of this thread - can I delete the thread?

Yawn. The only brain-dead fools are the ones breaking the speed limit!

Can I delete this thread = can't have my own way/this poster won't agree with me/I can't come up with any constructive counter argument/'boy racer' comes to mind..........

Marcopolo85

edmund_f wrote:

Probably a wise plan, but i would like the oppurtunity to reply..

as far a 'chip' on my shoulder.. if you mean that i expect and demand a certain level of professionlism and service from the cops, then so be it 'chip' it is. Make no mistake about it, they are a service, just the same as eircom, bord gais etc etc. if any other goverment/ semi state body tried to do what they are doing i imagine it would not last very long. Imagine the customs only searching boats, as all drugs must come in that way?. The deaths on our roads are a complicated issue, not as simple as 'speed kills'. Gatso's parked on dual carrrageways just annoy. They will not catch the people who speed recklessly.

Just saying something does not make it true, speed is a conisderable contributing factor to road deaths, but i believe there are several other factors which must be dealt with first. If you are going to deal with speed, deal with it, do not basically entrap people at low speed limits and covert detection.

if you decide speed kills, so be it, you are entitled to your opinion. Nothing you seem to say addresses in any way shape or form any of the other issues. I believe the cops have a similar viewpoint to you, which is why they hide behind the speeding, with no other form of discernable enforcement of the road traffic laws. To go out on a limb here, you sound brainwashed, you are not even willing to listen to any other point of view, if we all drive at 50kph everything would be perfect?.

Fair points. No - it wouldn't be, but wouldn't it be a tad safer....?? I'm not advocating a police state, but having seen the behaviour of these people on our roads every day, I am firmly of the belief that they (and they are a very small minority) need to be both controlled and punished.

edmund_f

Marcopolo85 wrote:

I am firmly of the belief that they (and they are a very small minority) need to be both controlled and punished.

i could stand corrected here, but you may be seeing a part of my argument here?

habitual excessive speeders, by this i mean you would get your 12 points by speeding in excess of 40-50kph of the limit, or less depending on cirumstances, would be punished.

I doubt anyone caught by the white van would fall into that category?, well by the law of numbers maybe a few percent perhaps.

yes speeding is bad, but if you think about all the near misses you have every day, people not using roundabout correctly, pulling out of junctions, tailgating etc etc speeding makes up quite a small amount of it. Well at least it does for me.

the only thing i can do personally is as stated above, is try to drive as safely as possible, and give the d!ck head sign to any cops that i see on the side of the road.. as that in my opinion is all they are.

Marcopolo85

edmund_f wrote:

i could stand corrected here, but you may be seeing a part of my argument here?

habitual excessive speeders, by this i mean you would get your 12 points by speeding in excess of 40-50kph of the limit, or less depending on cirumstances, would be punished.

I doubt anyone caught by the white van would fall into that category?, well by the law of numbers maybe a few percent perhaps.

yes speeding is bad, but if you think about all the near misses you have every day, people not using roundabout correctly, pulling out of junctions, tailgating etc etc speeding makes up quite a small amount of it. Well at least it does for me.

the only thing i can do personally is as stated above, is try to drive as safely as possible, and give the d!ck head sign to any cops that i see on the side of the road.. as that in my opinion is all they are.

Fairly strong stuff! But I'm sure you will agree - and I include myself - that all of us know people we work wwith who are lazy, unobliging, whatever......but you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

TheLedge

Marcopolo85 wrote:

and I include myself - that all of us know people we work wwith who are lazy, unobliging, whatever......but you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

yes you can. irish drivers in general are brutal.

edmund_f

i was more referring to the cops, not drivers. In my opinion, stress opinion, all cops are either incompetent, or incompetent by association. Some cop made a consious decision to place that white van at that exact spot at that exact time. Given such a powerful resource to help take speeding drivers off the road he/she decided that it would be in the best interest of public safety to put it there. Has anyone ever seen these things parked up late a night, or on high risk/low volume roads?. It would not take much extra effort on the part of the cops to actually become effective, but instead they choose to use their powers in this fashon?. shame on them.

edmund_f

http://www.eurorap.org/roadratings/road_rating.cfm

http://www.eurorap.org/roadratings/popups/map_popup_ie.htm

perhaps someone should forward this onto the cops?

Son_of_Belial

Well, if anyone is thinking of speeding any time in the near future either under or above the influence of alchohol, they should consult the various gruesome images in any of [link removed[/URL].
I think these get the point across pretty forcefully.