Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony?

bk

I have watched all 3 press conferences.

Also I own a Gamecube, DS and PC, I don't own a PS2 or Xbox so I think I'm pretty objective.

PS3: This was by far the most impressive conference.

First off all the technology of the PS3 is far superior to the 360. The CPU is certainly much faster, however it is questionable if that will actually be taken advantage of. The GPU's are about equal. The other hardware like 7 x bluetooth controllers, wifi, 6 x usb 2, BluRay, 3 x Gigabit ethernet, 2 X HDMI and up to 1080p resolution, Memorystick/SD/CF memory card reader was all amazing and much more well speced then 360.

Sony also did a great job with the games. I break the games down into three categories:

Tech Demos: these were handled in realtime and were very impressive, in particular the one with the Eyetoy and cups, it showed me that Sony are going to be really innovative with the games on PS3.

Realtime Demos: Epic showed Unreal Tournanment 2007 and EA showed a boxing gaming. These were both realtime demos and were extremely impressive. Epic said that this was after only 2 months with a PS3 dev kit and that the PS3 was easy to progrma for.

Other Demos: A bunch of other demos were shown, I say some of them like killzone were pre-rendered and some were realtime. They were all very exciting and showed a great variety of game types and new innovative gaming ideas (Eyedentity jumps to mind).

What is interesting is that in a later interview the guy from Epic, he said that while yes the Killzone demo probably was pre-rendered, that having played with the PS3 hardware that he had no doubt that those sorts of graphics would be no problem to do with PS3 and he actually thought that they can be improved upon!!

What really got me about the PS3 wasn't just how nice looking everything was, it wasn't that everything was much more shiny, it was the amount of stuff that was going on in each demo. THere seems to be a massive amount of physics and AI going on in these demos and that is waht got me really excited. This is what I want and expect from the next generation of gaming. Better physics, more realistic worlds and better AI.

A big thumbs up to Sony.

Xbox 360 : Frankly the 360 conference was an insult to gamers everywhere. We had Xbox execs trying to be all street and down with the young people which is just embarrasing.

The thing about the 360 conference was that it was all glitz over content. MS seem to be much more interested in telling us about the Zen of gaming and how they are going to make loads of money and about HD and their live functionality then actually tell us or showing us much about the games.

About the hardware, the 360 does seem to underpowered compared to the PS3. Also despite all of MS's talk about HD, its HD equipment is inferior to Sony. I think MS using DVD instead of BluRay is a big mistake. On the other hand the Live functionality does look great and we have heard very little from Sony about their online community. Also I personally prefer the look of the 360 over the PS3, but I won't buy a console based on that.

As for the games, with the exception of Gears of War and some RPG game, I was completely underwhelmed. Most of the games looked like they could be done on the current Xbox, frankly many games on my (admittedly high end) PC look better!
The games didn't really have anything exciting or innovative going on, they just looked like the latest rev of a Xbox game. They also seemed to lack any interesting looking physics or AI.

Another thing, a lot of the games shown seemed to be just EA sport rehashs, completely underwhelming.

My overwhelming impression of the 360 is that it is really only Xbox 1.5 and not really a next gen machine.

Disapointing, time to get off you as* MS.

Nintendo Revolution : There really wasn't much to see at the Ninty conference. I think Ninty are going in a very different direction with the revolution and aren't going to be competing head to head with MS and Sony. I think I might post more about what I expect Nintentendo are going to be doing in a different post. I expect I'll probably get a revolution as a second console, similiar to many Gamecube owners.

So basically at the moment, Sony gets my vote. However there is a long way to go yet, I'm sure things will change and I'm keeping an open mind. In the end it is all about the games.

I will say one thing to Xbox fanboys. I've being reading posts and comments in a lot of different gaming sites and it seems that many Xbox fanboys are in total denial that their console might not be the most powerful this time around. They are sprouting all sorts of excuses, etc. I'd just like to say get some perspective, we play games because they are fun and we are all probably going to buy the console with the best games and lineup. Many of us will probably buy two or three consoles. So please keep an open mind and don't get so worked up.

Kevok

From what I saw, PS3 impressed me the most. But I'm still most excited about the Revolution (which I voted for), I just HOPE (massively) that Nintendo give 3rd parties complete and unfettered access to their "Way back machine". what I wouldn't give to play Bionic Commando, TMNT, Street Fighter 2 Turbo, and loads of other games again. (legitimately)

I reacted the same way as others at first, I was watching it with Syth in college and at the end I turned and said "Is that it?" but in thinking about it after I feel they did what they needed to. Microsoft is already a casualty of Sony's hype machine this E3 unfortunately, and Nintendo rather than being directly compared can now release the info in a few weeks or months time. Maybe Spaceworld will be back? Last one was the GC unveiling. Oh and in design terms, Revolution > 360 > George For... um PS3.

BloodBath

And yeah, thats right. Marketing, to me, means very little. The PS2 had all these fancy screenshots and promises and it was all BS.

SONY (or Microsoft/Nintendo, whoever) are trying to sell a console, so they'll want to make you excited about it. That doesn't mean you have to believe every word in their press releases, because it's all hype. They want you to buy it, they don't want to be honest with you or be your friend, they want your money. Form your opinions when there is something to be informed about, atm there is nothing, no games, no consoles, just hype.

This doesn't mean I'm not excited about what's coming up, there is huge potential here, but I'm not "OMG THE PS3 WILL KICK THE XBOX FAT ASS OLOLOL" because none of us can possibly know which will be better as they aren't even out yet.

I agree with you to a certail extent Koneko. The difference is the consoles have the specs to back up the hype this time around. The ps3 and x-box 360 are 2-3 times more powerful than a top spec pc (not counting sli) If you look at current top spec games on pc atm it's easy to beleive that a console with 2-3 times the power can achieve what they have been showing.

No, that would be the marketing crap that I said they make up. What I said was they can't lie about the hardware specs. They can make up all the claims they want (their 2T FLOPS claim is completely fudged for example, seeing as they're using single precision floating point instructions rather than double precision, and just adding the cpu and gpu capabilities together). The specifications for the cpu, gpu and the rest of the architecture speaks for themselves.

They didn't add the cpu gpu capabilities together. The cpu can achieve up tp 2TF max and the gpu up to 1.2TF.

insider talk is saying the nintendo is actually going to be close, if not better, then the xbox. bastards wont reveal much though

Nintendo have alrady stated that the revolution will be only 2-3 times more powerful than a GC. I don't think they will be beating either of the other two specs wise especially as it's so small.

Here's my opinion on the Nintendo situation (I've tried to limit fanboyism):

Many would say that they would hate to be in the position of Nintendo at the moment. That Nintendo are in last place, impression-wise and are in the backround. I disagree. I would love to be Nintendo now (although I'd love to be Nintendo at any time). Here's why: Sony and Microsoft have released pretty much all their main details and while they both have inpressive specs. and what not, it's nothing to make anyone widen their eyes in awe. We've been here before when the current generation came out. People were just as excited now as they were then only this time they've had to give us more. That's the nature of progress.
So we've got specs. and stuff but neither of the consoles in and of themsleves are that exciting. They're a little exciting but no more than usual. Now I make my point.
Nintendo are in a great place now becasue all they need is 1 thing, 1 idea, 1 amazing innovation that's original and different and practical. Even if their specs. aren't as high as the PS3's or the Xbox 360's if they can pull something really special out of the bag they can definately win this war. And now, it is a war!

Lol bad attempt at limiting the fanboyism. You think they are only a little exciting but nothing more than usual? No console in the past has been more powerful than a top spec pc at launch. Granted by the time they come out pc graphics cards will be just as good but the processors won't. I think Nintendo need a lot more than a re-thought control system to push them out in front this time. Many many companies have tried in the past and failed.


As for the price discussion earlier, I seriously doubt either console will be anywhere near $250 at launch. When you consider the components that make them up i'd say $400-500 is a much more realistic launch price and even at that they will be making a significant loss selling the things. I think I paid 300 pounds for my ps1 at launch. 400-500e is not such a bad price to pay for that kind of kit.

dloob

Right well in order of impressiveness

So far I'm most impressed by the PS3.
The ducks demo was excellent and the unreal one pretty impressive too.
Sony certainly seem to have won the buzz generating contest.
I do worry about a repeat of their previous launches and a failure to deliver.
But I can't help being excited about it for now.


The Xbox 360, well the Xbox is my favorite of the current generation but I haven't been blown away by the 360.
It's powerful and all but the footage hasn't impressed.
I haven't seen anything the current xbox couldn't too.
The launch doesn't seem to have gone down well with the gamer audience I think they tried too hard to be cool.
Zen of Gaming and all that.


Nintendo, well there isn't much to say yet.
The back catalog is a nice novelty but I don't think it will appeal to a very large audience.
My first nintendo was the gamecube so I would like to try out the older stuff.
Especially starfox as they keep mucking it up on the cube.
But you have to wonder how much it will cost given the price of the NES classics.
But not much to go on for now, no news on the games.
very few people will buy a new console to play old games.
There is a rumour there will be more about it on the 19th lets hope so.
I get the feeling nintendo will be third in the next gen.

From a design point of view I like the revolution, simple and elegant nicer than the 360 which I don't like the look of at all.
My favorite is the PS3 design, well except the controller, less said about that the better.

MrPinK

BloodBath wrote:

They didn't add the cpu gpu capabilities together. The cpu can achieve up tp 2TF max and the gpu up to 1.2TF.

Nay, the processor only does 218 GFLOPS. This fits with IBM's official numbers for the cell processor, which is 256 GFLOPS. IBM's prototype cell uses all 8 SPE's rather than the PS3's 7, which is why it's higher.

bk

Well I promised that I'd post more about the direction that I think Nintendo are going with the Revolution.

First off all Nintendo said that it is only going to be about 2 or 3 times more powerful then the Gamecube.

This will be a lot less powerful then PS3 and 360. I think this is accurate, just look at the size of it. There is absolutely no way they could fit the monster power/heat CPU's that are going into the PS3 and 360 into a box that size.

But don't start screaming at me yet, all is not lost.

Because Ninty are going to be using such less powerful and feature rich gear, then it is going to cost much less then the other two.

I fully expect the PS3 and Xbox 360 at about €400 - €500. I expect that the Revolution will be about €150 to €200.

Also the games are expected to cost a lot more on PS3/360, they are likely cost less on the revolution.

Also the Revolution will be able to play NES, SNES and N64 games downloaded online. I expect Ninty will have a sort of iTunes service where you can buy or even rent (maybe even per use) these games for small amounts of money.

With this in mind, I think we will see Ninty target 3 markets:

1) A second console for many hardcore gamers.

Most of my friends bought the Gamecube when it dropped to €99 just so do could play the three or four big titles on it (Zelda, Metroid, Mario Kart, etc.)
The gamecube wasn't their primary console, they still had a PS2/Xbox and it remained their main console. But with the machine so cheap, they didn't mind paying out for it. I expect Ninty will aim to do the same with the Revolution, a very fun little console, that doesn't take up much space, that you can paly all those fun nostalgic games on for a low price. While still having your PS3/360

2) Families with young kids.

While the PS3/360 will be seen as very adult, Ninty (RE4 aside) continues to have a very kid safe image. I can just see the father/mother with their PS3/360 at the center of their living room palying their adult games, while upstairs 9 year old Timmy, plays his safe (and relatively cheap) Ninty games on his portable.

Don't forget all the bloody pokemon games.

3) Emerging Markets.

Billions of peole around the world make very little money and yet would still like to play games. The PS3/360 will be far out of their reach, but the Revolution with it cheap price and all those cheaply downloadable games would be very attractive.

The funny thing is, with this sort of strategy, I could almost see the Revolution being in second place, or at least fighting for it closely. It could very well be a two horse race for second place between Xbox 360 and Revolution (yes I expect PS3 to dominate again).

steviec

I agree the way for Nintendo to go is probably a much lower pricepoint than it's competitors. That's worked well for the cube. If it's only 2-3 times more powerful than a GC, which retails for 100 quid now, I think the Revolution could possibly even cost as little as 100 itself in a year or two. And that could really give them a fighting chance.

Of course they're still holding their cards close to their chest and if they really do have something revolutionary up their sleeve then it could end up costing a whole lot more..

dloob

bk wrote:

The funny thing is, with this sort of strategy, I could almost see the Revolution being in second place, or at least fighting for it closely. It could very well be a two horse race for second place between Xbox 360 and Revolution (yes I expect PS3 to dominate again).

I'm not sure if they will be able to get second here at least and maybe in the UK too. It will suffer from the Gamecubes legacy.
Everytime I go to the local gamestores the gamecube section seems to have shrunk it's space taken over by the xbox and ps2 sections.
It's gives an air of failure to the gamecube and a sense that it's inferior to the other two (Which it isn't of course don't kill me I have one it rocks ).
People in the mainstream buying a next gen console will likely go for the successor of one of the consoles that's popular now because the brand is familiar. That means PS3 or Xbox 360 and more than likely PS3 because it's such a massive brand but Microsoft have done a good job of getting the Xbox name fairly well known too.
I'm afraid most of the mainstream don't even know the gamecube exists anymore and that will effect the revolution.
Unless of course they have something that really blows everyone away. Fingers crossed.

Infini

CyberGhost wrote:

PS3 definitely, then Xbox then Ninti

Same here.

Hugh Hefner

BloodBath wrote:

Lol bad attempt at limiting the fanboyism.

Lol. Yeah well..... fanboys don't care. Heh.

BloodBath wrote:

You think they are only a little exciting but nothing more than usual? No console in the past has been more powerful than a top spec pc at launch. Granted by the time they come out pc graphics cards will be just as good but the processors won't.

Yeah but c'mon, probably only 25% (if not less) of people who buy the PS3/XBox360 are going to be aware of this and some of the ones who are possibly won't care. Honestly, high end specs. don't exactly PUMP MY NADS!

BloodBath wrote:

I think Nintendo need a lot more than a re-thought control system to push them out in front this time. Many many companies have tried in the past and failed.

Oh I think they need more than that too. I'm talkin' serious innovation here. Something almost unpredictable.

Giblet

Nintendo are lying to you....

Hugh Hefner

:eek: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Bottle mammy!

Giblet

The revolution is not all it appears...

dloob

Giblet wrote:

The revolution is not all it appears...

Ahh but is it more than it appears to be or less.

Giblet

Red Herring...

BlitzKrieg

Bloodbath. no offence, but you complain about fanboyism alot but you seem very determined to put the revolution down at every chance you have. Are you sure your fanboyism against nintendo might be coming through a bit strong?

BloodBath

Anyone that browses this forum knows there are a lot of Nintendo fanboys on it. I'm not anti Nintendo by any means. I have owned a nes, gameboy, snes, n64 and had a cube for about 6 months (swapped my x-box for a while) and I liked every one of them. The topic is based on the info released so far which console seems to be the most exciting. From the large amount of Nintendo votes so far you see the true fanboys of the forum come out. Nintendo have released no details so far except for an early concept screenshot, backwards compatability and that it will be 2-3 times more powerful than a cube. I'm seriously not impressed. No game shot's, no specs, nothing. Where's the revolution? So how can the cube place second in the poll based on the info, or lack of. That's my point. I've said it before, I am geuinely unbiassed. I've owned nearly every console since the 80's at one stage or another including crap ones like the mega cd and 32x. God damn you sega.

Giblet

The revolution is a new GC with emulation powers and DVD, this is not the new Next Gen Revolution.

jesus_thats_gre

It pains me to admit but the PS3 is by far the most appealling so far..

I just hope MS can start showing off some decent software!!

LegacyUser

bk wrote:

Well I promised that I'd post more about the direction that I think Nintendo are going with the Revolution.

First off all Nintendo said that it is only going to be about 2 or 3 times more powerful then the Gamecube.

This will be a lot less powerful then PS3 and 360. I think this is accurate, just look at the size of it. There is absolutely no way they could fit the monster power/heat CPU's that are going into the PS3 and 360 into a box that size.

But don't start screaming at me yet, all is not lost.

Because Ninty are going to be using such less powerful and feature rich gear, then it is going to cost much less then the other two.

I fully expect the PS3 and Xbox 360 at about €400 - €500. I expect that the Revolution will be about €150 to €200.

Also the games are expected to cost a lot more on PS3/360, they are likely cost less on the revolution.

Also the Revolution will be able to play NES, SNES and N64 games downloaded online. I expect Ninty will have a sort of iTunes service where you can buy or even rent (maybe even per use) these games for small amounts of money.

With this in mind, I think we will see Ninty target 3 markets:

1) A second console for many hardcore gamers.

Most of my friends bought the Gamecube when it dropped to €99 just so do could play the three or four big titles on it (Zelda, Metroid, Mario Kart, etc.)
The gamecube wasn't their primary console, they still had a PS2/Xbox and it remained their main console. But with the machine so cheap, they didn't mind paying out for it. I expect Ninty will aim to do the same with the Revolution, a very fun little console, that doesn't take up much space, that you can paly all those fun nostalgic games on for a low price. While still having your PS3/360

2) Families with young kids.

While the PS3/360 will be seen as very adult, Ninty (RE4 aside) continues to have a very kid safe image. I can just see the father/mother with their PS3/360 at the center of their living room palying their adult games, while upstairs 9 year old Timmy, plays his safe (and relatively cheap) Ninty games on his portable.

Don't forget all the bloody pokemon games.

3) Emerging Markets.

Billions of peole around the world make very little money and yet would still like to play games. The PS3/360 will be far out of their reach, but the Revolution with it cheap price and all those cheaply downloadable games would be very attractive.

The funny thing is, with this sort of strategy, I could almost see the Revolution being in second place, or at least fighting for it closely. It could very well be a two horse race for second place between Xbox 360 and Revolution (yes I expect PS3 to dominate again).

I completely agree with you. These are my thoughts. I bought a cube as a second console and offloaded it once i was done with zelda/mario kart.

It was a second console to me. I am not anti-nintendo at all. My favourite console as a kid was the nintendo with mario bros! I ****ing loved it! And mega man too!!! And i even loved mario bros 2 cos you could dig up carrots and put them on your head! HAHA

With that being said, I expect and being a betting guy fully reckon PS3 will win the console war because to me, the war is between PS3 and Xbox while Nintendo are in a totally different category so to put it in laymans terms, I see Nintendo basically being their own monopoly so to speak for the market they go for and I can see myself buying a new nintendo revolution as a second console because they are fun!

BloodBath

True I think if that is the marketing strategy Nintendo are going for they may be on to a winner. Rather than try to compete head on with the other 2 target a different market instead. I'd happily buy a revolution as well as one of the other 2 if it was priced around the 200e mark just for Nintendos games.

Jimboo_Jones

PS3 for me - I do not own any of the current consols - but the PS3 specs make me tremble

and the chace to play my beloved Suidoken games again

hey Retro (I know your a suidoken fan) have you seen how much the original two games cost now

petes

Fook it just give me one of each.

Kevok

Giblet wrote:

The revolution is a new GC with emulation powers and DVD, this is not the new Next Gen Revolution.

Don't do this. Don't get swept up in what, at the moment, is pure speculation based on loosely tied together facts/rumours. It could all just lead to more dissapointment.

For those not in the 'know', someone one the Gaming-Age forums (http://forums.gaming-age.com) made a post about a supposed "Thurdayton" in which nintendo will blow everyone away. Since last night the thread has grown to over 17 pages and is being discussed on gaming message boards accross the internet. The fallout will be massive if nothing happens, best bet, is believe that it's a lie, set yourself up for surprise if it does happen and dodge the dissapointment if it doesn't.

One thing is sure though, most drama filled E3 ever.

Hugh Hefner

Kevok wrote:

One thing is sure though, most drama filled E3 ever.

Certainly.


So there's an internet rumour about a Thursday surprise that the Rev. is not Nintendo's new Next-Gen. but rather a jacked up GC? That's the dumbest thing I've heard. I mean Nintendo would have to have massive head trauma to do something like that. To spend years dividing their expertise across the creation of 2 consoles and one which will be dwarfed by the other. It's silliness personified.

Retr0gamer

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

hey Retro (I know your a suidoken fan) have you seen how much the original two games cost now

Yes I have. I paid 80 euros for an an american copy of Suikoden 1 on ebay. As for Suikoden 2. I'm just glad i was able to get my copy free from Konami from my friend there. The game especially the PAL version goes for ridiculous prices. And rightfully so, it's amazing but bugger all copies available.

steviec

Hugh Hefner wrote:

To spend years dividing their expertise across the creation of 2 consoles and one which will be dwarfed by the other. It's silliness personified.

Hmmm isn't that almost precisely what they're doing in the handheld market? Dividing their time between a new version GBA(micro) and a proper revolutionary console(DS)...

I doubt this is what they're doing with revolution mind you. But it could make sense for them to release a relatively underpowered, low price console that people would buy alongside their PS3/X360, then maybe wait 2 or 3 years and release something with new technology available then that can really beat the other two consoles. Very very unlikely that thats the plan though.

Memnoch

I'm going to go for a PS3. Mainly because most X-box games so far have been PC games and I'd rather play them on my PC once I upgrade it. Nintendo games have never interested me, I don't like Mario or Zelda at all. (used to enjoy mario as a kid though). So it's PS3 all the way for me!

Hugh Hefner

steviec wrote:

Hmmm isn't that almost precisely what they're doing in the handheld market? Dividing their time between a new version GBA(micro) and a proper revolutionary console(DS)...

Not really. C'mon, the micro couldn't have taken that long to devolop. It's basically just a retooling of the GBA into a smaller machine. It's not as though they had to develop any new tech. They just had to rework it into a smaller package. They had to become Ikea! Plus they released the DS months ago so they've probably only been working on the micro since the end of DS's development therefore it wouldn't really have interfered with the DS's development.

Besides, the micro, I think, will be marketed as more of a luxury item to a certain market than Nintendo trying to make it their new big thang.

Giblet

Nah Kevok I'm taking the piss