Stalking Pete Doherty

magpie

Anyone see this last night? One of the funniest things I've seen in ages. "Max Carlish" was a work of genius... "Stop the madness!"

There are 3 possibilities:

1) It was a pisstake, and Doherty was in on the gag. This seems unlikely as he ended up in Pentonville for boxing Carlish

2) It was a pisstake, and Doherty wasn't in on it. Which seems the most likely. There's no way this guy was for reall "It isn't rape, it's sex"; "We'll be together in electric dreams";"We'll always have Sheffield Pete" etc etc etc.

3) Max Carlish is a scary real-life Alan Partridge / David Brent

I'm pretty sure it must be option 2 though. The thing that really set off the alarm bells was his mate "James" who was a really bad actor.

Interestingly there was no description of this whatsoever in the Irish Times TV Guide; clearly the reviewer didn't know what was going on so couldn't bill it as comedy / documentary / whatever.

Whoever Max Carlish really is, he seems to be the new Chris Morris, except he doesn't even stop when his target gets thrown in clink for assaulting him.

Aurther Hugh

Wow...it was jaw dropping, the bit where he used the mutual orgasm analogy about his intimate conversation with Pete. Pretty scary guy, clearly quite mad.

magpie

clearly quite mad

I've been having a look on google and I seem to be the only person in the world who realises that the whole Max Carlish persona is an elaborate Chris Morris piss-take.

Aurther Hugh

Well considering I've been your only reply here so far I'd consider a larger sample size before congratulating yourself

magpie

a larger sample size

See:

I've been having a look on google

before congratulating yourself

I'm not, I'm actually starting to doubt my sanity. Max Carlish can't be for real, can he? "I'm not a fat ****, I'm a fat four-eyed brummie jew"

BaZmO*

One of the strangest shows I've seen in a long while. I really didn't know what to make of this guy.

As for it being a wind up? I really don't know. Is it a case of life immitating art re Alan Partridge and Chris Morris?

B.

magpie

Been doing some searches for Max Carlish, found this article from the idler. He's a funny guy http://www.idler.co.uk/html/library/fatandpoor.htm its hard to believe he would seriously dance around singing "we'll be together in electric dreams"...

Also, what is a 'part-time academic' and where does he teach?

I'm definitely getting Morris vibes off this

Tusky

I didnt know what to make of it. I didnt really find it funny either, the guy is anoying.

Tristram

I would like to believe that this was some kind of elaborate piss-take but I fear that sadly is it not.Actually watched the whole hour of 'Stalking Pete Doherty' last night (didnt have the remote control) and could not believe how the programme got aired.There was absolutely no substance to it whatsoever.I actually smiled when I saw that Max had gotten a smack off Pete Doherty and I dont even like Pete Doherty.

magpie

I actually smiled when I saw that Max had gotten a smack off Pete Doherty and I dont even like Pete Doherty.

Hmm, but Doherty denied the whole incident, Carlish didn't press charges and the only evidence was Carlish filming himself with one black eye (make-up anyone?).

Once again, the outlandishness of it all... at one point Doherty saying that Carlish had come at him with a sword, Carlish's response "The sword in question was at home that day"...

Come on people, this can't be for real. Surely? :eek:

crang

Meant to watch this last nigh but got home to late. does anyone know if or when there is a repeat and is it even worth watching.

Tristram

magpie wrote:

Hmm, but Doherty denied the whole incident, Carlish didn't press charges and the only evidence was Carlish filming himself with one black eye (make-up anyone?).

Ur right.Correction:I hoped Doherty had smacked him.If not Doherty then sum1 else.

BTW that James guy is actually Pete Doherty's manager.

magpie

Ok, proof surely that this is guy is taking the piss...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,1424893,00.html

The first time I met Pete Doherty was in a gungy, grungy nightclub in Leicester. I'm not a pop man, I'm a documentaries man. I helped produce an Emmy and Bafta-award-winning television series about the Royal Opera House. But I had seen a photo of Pete in a newspaper pretending to smoke crack and had read about his genuine addiction, and he fascinated me.

I was intrigued by him. Perhaps part of it was because I'm a former crack addict myself. There was a man daring damnation, I thought. Anyway, a friend of mine, Nathan McGough, who managed the Happy Mondays, took me along to this gig where his new band Towers of London were supporting Pete, who was doing an acoustic warm-up for his Babyshambles tour. This was last June, soon after he'd been kicked out of the Libertines.

That night I watched him and thought: what an amazing pop star. What a beautiful, cool, gorgeous guy. If I was gay, I'd have a crush on him. Actually, I had a bit of a crush on him anyway. He played guitar brilliantly, his lyrics were amazing, he was gorgeous.

I wouldn't have believed it unless I'd seen it with my own eyes. Hundreds of gorgeous, smart, trendy young women abasing themselves at the shrine of Le Doherty alongside awestruck male fans who claim that Pete has made it all right for boys to be vulnerable and weepy again. These are all extremely intelligent, discriminating people, with very few heroin addicts among them.

The moment I saw that picture of him in the paper, I thought I had to make a film about Pete. I didn't think I'd get access to him, but I did easily - nobody cared that much about him then because he wasn't going out with Kate Moss. That first night I met him I told him I was going to make him rich and famous. He was impressed with the Bafta for the film about the Royal Opera House. But the truth was, I'd not done any high-profile work for a long time.

All in all, we spent five months filming, from June to October 2004. I shot him at nine gigs over that period of time, and would usually interview him afterwards. I was shamelessly sycophantic, always telling him that he looked like a natural-born icon - but then it was true.

At first, he kept me at a distance, throwing me the occasional post-gig scrap of interview. But by August we had become close. In fact, in early July in Sheffield, Pete adopted me as his court jester and invited me to join the stage act. I was Mr Nobody from Nowhere, and that appealed to him. I was filming him on stage, but he said, "No, Max, put the camera down and dance, because you're more use to me that way." Suddenly I was incorporated into the band as some kind of demented, posh Bez figure. I fulfilled a role briefly on and off stage as a kind of idiot savant to Pete and his familiars.

I referred to myself as a fat four-eyed Brummie Jew, which they all found very funny. So long as I found new ways of humiliating myself, they let me penetrate their inner sanctum with my Sony camera.

I loved being on stage. I wanted to be Pete. I even sang along with him when I was on stage. On August 17 we spent the evening and night together in a studio in north London. Pete had spent most of the day asleep in a car. He woke up, went into the studio and recorded the only music that Babyshambles has yet released. That night was so intimate and magical. He was pretending he was Tommy Steele (I think he'd rather be a vaudeville act than a pop star), doing little dances for me, chatting to me about life, love and death, smoking heroin all night long. I think I became passively addicted to heroin that night.

He also allowed me to help him with the lyrics for a song that became the B-side of the first Babyshambles hit, Killamangiro. It was then that I realised just how smart he was - he rhymed green with spleen and even understood the medieval meaning of the word spleen.

Sometimes I wondered what I was doing there. I suppose I wanted to make a film about a man with phenomenal talent who was blowing it by the day. I wanted to show what drug addiction does to you. That night I felt I finally understood him.

Pete insisted on taking heroin while I was filming. I think he thought it was cool; that it added to the mythology. He thought he was Thomas deQuincy, author of Confessions of an Opium Eater. Heroin was a fashion accessory, like a supermodel girlfriend. He thinks he's stronger than his habit, and that his hits will outlive his habit, but I'm not so sure.

Pete is in a horrible place with a thousandquid-a-week habit. He's got a massive selfdestruct button, but he's convinced he's just playing games with death. I talked with him that night in the studio on a balcony overlooking a cemetery in north London and we talked about death. He was just glib about it, saying, "I don't approve of sex before death."

Pete and the Libertines started off with such a great philosophy - that the fans were an extension of the band and they would play anywhere for them. It was all about love, peace and happiness, sprinkled with punk and anarchy. It also had a romantic and wistful obsession about old England, Albion. In a way, Pete was doing musically what the Kinks did with their album The Village Green. They wrote songs about vicars and tea leaves and cherished love, and of course they wrote many songs - virtually all the songs on the last album - that predicted their end. All those things eventually came to an end. It was partly the drugs talking, but it was also fame.

The last time I did my Bez impression was in Southampton. He told the audience that I was making a documentary about him, and they all started throwing bottles at me. Pete thought that wasn't cool, so he dumped me from the stage act. Things began to get messy and complicated. I continued to film gigs, but by October interest appeared to be waning in my documentary. I, like Pete, was considered a bit of a loose cannon. I felt I had to tell Pete. Not surprisingly, he too lost interest in completing the film. It became impossible to get to see him. I hadn't been paid a penny by anyone for my work and was broke. I went into a depressive spiral. I took to my bed for two months.

Everything seemed so sordid. The band seemed to be falling apart. I was actually invited to accompany them on their mad New Year's Eve gig-fest - four gigs in one night. But I felt too low. I didn't want to be their court jester any more. Then came new year, a new girlfriend (for Pete), and everything changed around again. It was 2005, and the junkie rocker was going out with Kate Moss. Newspapers were interested in him, and people were once again keen on my documentary. I got out of bed, remade contact with Pete's manager, James Mullord, and talked about completing the film. I wanted Pete to sign a contract to commit him to completing film. But it never happened. Nothing happened. Weeks passed. Eventually a friend of mine saw the footage of him taking him heroin and thought I could sell them and recoup my losses. He called a friend at the Sun, and before I knew it I was in the middle of a bidding war.

I didn't want to sell the pictures, but I did want to use them as leverage to meet up with Pete again and complete the film. I phoned up James told him what was happening with the newspapers and offered to hold back on the footage - so that we could complete the documentary. I waited and waited and heard nothing. Meanwhile, the Sunday Mirror was getting more and more desperate to buy the pictures from me. Their offer began to look more and more tempting. I was desperate for money, and by this point I had convinced myself I would never see Pete again, would never be able to complete my film, and would have wasted the best part of a year on nothing. Friends were telling me take the money and run. I wanted Pete to get back to me, but he never did. And so I succumbed.

After selling the photos I heard from Pete for the first time in four months. He sounded very fed up. "I hear you've made loads of cash from selling my photos." "Yes," I said. "You know I didn't want to sell the pics, but what I want is for us to get together to complete the film." I told him he was welcome to some of the money for the film if he would use it for drug rehabilitation and get back into the studio. Then I thought: what if we could actually film him going into rehab? What a film we would have there! I thought we could still save the situation. Now it seems he thinks we're beyond that stage.

Unhappily, it seems the next time we will see each other will be in court. I hope he gets back into a recording studio as quickly as possible, so we can download more of his genius before it's too late.

The main exhibits for the prosecution being:

I was intrigued by him. Perhaps part of it was because I'm a former crack addict myself

If I was gay, I'd have a crush on him. Actually, I had a bit of a crush on him anyway.

These are all extremely intelligent, discriminating people, with very few heroin addicts among them.

Suddenly I was incorporated into the band as some kind of demented, posh Bez figure. I fulfilled a role briefly on and off stage as a kind of idiot savant to Pete and his familiars.

smoking heroin all night long. I think I became passively addicted to heroin that night.

It was then that I realised just how smart he was - he rhymed green with spleen and even understood the medieval meaning of the word spleen.

I hope he gets back into a recording studio as quickly as possible, so we can download more of his genius before it's too late.

How obvious does this guy have to make it?

magpie

BTW that James guy is actually Pete Doherty's manager.

No, not him, the guy who was supposedly one of Max's students that he brought along to the gig, who looked like Alex Zane from MTV and was obviously an actor.

BaZmO*

magpie wrote:

Hmm, but Doherty denied the whole incident, Carlish didn't press charges and the only evidence was Carlish filming himself with one black eye (make-up anyone?)

There's no way that was make up, his eye was swollen.

With regards to the denial, who do you believe? A Junkie or a complete nut job that has been diagnosed with bi-polar somethingorother. Not the most stable of people tbh.

crang wrote:

Meant to watch this last nigh but got home to late. does anyone know if or when there is a repeat and is it even worth watching.

No doubt it'll be repeated on E4.

BaZmO*

magpie wrote:

No, not him, the guy who was supposedly one of Max's students that he brought along to the gig, who looked like Alex Zane from MTV and was obviously an actor.

Are you talking about the guy in the car park that was getting an earful from Max about being undermined?

B.

magpie

A Junkie or a complete nut job that has been diagnosed with bi-polar somethingorother. Not the most stable of people tbh.

You're missing the point. Max Carlish is a pisstaker. Read the article above, if you can be bothered your arse.

magpie

Are you talking about the guy in the car park that was getting an earful from Max about being undermined?

The guy who was in his bedroom wearing badges with a guitar in the background.

What do you think of the quotes above?

Larianne

I only caught the last 10 minutes of the doc. And thought it was really scary. Scared that that guy,Max could actually be a real person! Had to be a spoof,wasn't it??!!. :eek:
What was with singing 'Electric Dreams'. Seemed like a right psycho who was obessessed with that Pete dude. The bruise defo wasn't make-up.

This guy is a lecturer?? Where? Who'd have him? Jaysus even thinking of that Max dude, gives me the creeps. :eek:

magpie

This guy is a lecturer?? Where?

Exactly.

BaZmO*

I read the Guardian interview and tbh the guy just comes across as a sad dillusional loser.

The last time I did my Bez impression was in Southampton. He told the audience that I was making a documentary about him, and they all started throwing bottles at me. Pete thought that wasn't cool, so he dumped me from the stage act

The reason why he didn't do it again was because either Pete or one of the band members through a microphone at his head because he was carrying on like a twat.

Lets face it, as unbelievable as it seems for him to be for real, I think he is. He's just a sad lonely man with severe mental problems.

B.

magpie

Quote:
I was intrigued by him. Perhaps part of it was because I'm a former crack addict myself


Quote:
If I was gay, I'd have a crush on him. Actually, I had a bit of a crush on him anyway.


Quote:
These are all extremely intelligent, discriminating people, with very few heroin addicts among them.


Quote:
Suddenly I was incorporated into the band as some kind of demented, posh Bez figure. I fulfilled a role briefly on and off stage as a kind of idiot savant to Pete and his familiars.


Quote:
smoking heroin all night long. I think I became passively addicted to heroin that night.


Quote:
It was then that I realised just how smart he was - he rhymed green with spleen and even understood the medieval meaning of the word spleen.


Quote:
I hope he gets back into a recording studio as quickly as possible, so we can download more of his genius before it's too late.

Seriously, if that's not taking the piss I don't know what is. You just think this is unintentionally funny? Please.

p.pete

I found the program very interesting, unfortunately I miss a bit at the start. I was wonder who this loser was, why his documentary merited time on tv at all. He was clearly nuts and largely it did actually seem like he was stalking (in a paparazi fashion perhaps), which is a bit freaky to be seen on tv.

The only real merit to the guy seemed to come from the point at which he sold pictures and got thumped, at which point he became more of a loser and lost all credibility. I'm not sure whether it was intended as a pisstake but it was certainly interesting, the dark side of humour if that was what was intended.

SatanInside

Can someone please explain why the libertines became so popular? After hearing their album last night it has left me wondering whether such a thing as "musical taste" exists anymore. The music is badly put together, the lyrics suck and it has that whole "I can't actually play an instrument but doesn't this twanging sound seem cool".
As for Pete Doherty, he's just a glorified heroin addict. I mean you can go anywhere in ireland, pick one of them up and put them in front of a camera and hey...its another Pete Doherty. This waster doesn't deserve sympathy let alone attention. Let him overdose and rot.......

magpie

Just remembered another scene that made me very suspicious:

On the balcony overlooking the cemetery:

Doherty "lots of my relatives out there"
Charlish "really?"
Doherty "yeah... and my uncle stan, he burned himself to death"
Charlish "that's called immolation, self-immolation"
Doherty "no, he burned himself to death"

Which is uncannily similar to both Withnail and Eye, the scene where Danny the drug dealer is describing the judge "he had on a big white hat" "you mean a wig?" "no, this was more like a hat" AND pretty much the whole of Spinal Tap.

This exchange just seemed a bit too knowing.

Aurther Hugh

magpie wrote:

Seriously, if that's not taking the piss I don't know what is. You just think this is unintentionally funny? Please.

I thought he was just a desperate kinda guy. Surely if this was a spoof why didn't he admit to that at the end?! I'm not saying it definitely is real but I dont see how it couldn't possibly be?!

magpie

I thought he was just a desperate kinda guy. Surely if this was a spoof why didn't he admit to that at the end?! I'm not saying it definitely is real but I dont see how it couldn't possibly be?!

So you don't think those quotes from the Guardian are taking the piss?

Surely if this was a spoof why didn't he admit to that at the end?!

Why would he? He's getting huge media coverage, and everyone seems to believe he's real.

I'm not saying it definitely is real but I dont see how it couldn't possibly be?!

Why couldn't it be a spoof? The guy just needs a total brass neck. Who shouts "Stop the madness" at a gig when the crowd invades the stage? The Max Charlish persona is a composite of Garth Marenghi, David Brent, Alan Partridge and more.

Granted, its an extremely cruel pisstake as Doherty is the victim, but I'm willing to bet that this willcome out as a spoof in the near future, the same way this Chris Morris column did after a lot of furore http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~cow/studio/geefe.html

ferdi

that guy was a very irritating idividual

parasite

there's more discussion here, someone there says they were a student of his

magpie

The OP of that thread is bang on the money AFAIK, at least someone else agrees with me!

Youll notice that nobody has asked his supposed student what University he teaches in?

Even if he is a teacher, he was supposedly a teacher of 'Media Studies' which would make him even more media, and therefore, spoof savvy, no?

This guy is having a right old laugh.

meditraitor

magpie wrote:

The OP of that thread is bang on the money AFAIK, at least someone else agrees with me!

Youll notice that nobody has asked his supposed student what University he teaches in?

Even if he is a teacher, he was supposedly a teacher of 'Media Studies' which would make him even more media, and therefore, spoof savvy, no?

This guy is having a right old laugh.

http://www.mediaschool.org/mega/mega_inst.html

is this what you were looking for?

magpie

No, I saw that already. I can use google too Its not a university, a college, or a 3rd level institution of any description. Just some dodgy meeja training agency.

MMM is his production company that made a documentary about UK sci fi.

Unfortunately none of this disporoves, or for that matter even suggests, that stalking pete doherty was not an enormous spoof.

As I said before, I'm even more suspicious of the guy if he taught media studies, just means hes more likely to be aware of Chris Morris and what you can get away with.

meditraitor

magpie wrote:

No, I saw that already. I can use google too Its not a university, a college, or a 3rd level institution of any description. Just some dodgy meeja training agency.

MMM is his production company that made a documentary about UK sci fi.

Unfortunately none of this disporoves, or for that matter even suggests, that stalking pete doherty was not an enormous spoof.

As I said before, I'm even more suspicious of the guy if he taught media studies, just means hes more likely to be aware of Chris Morris and what you can get away with.

Is that what defines a student, if a person gets instruction from anything else what are they???

Now less about your stupidity and back to the subject, of course its a piss take, IMO, and very elaborate at that.
in a few weeks time it will all unravel

magpie

less about your stupidity

:rolleyes:

In various blurbs he's described as a college lecturer, and even a 'professor' of media studies. Normally when someone calls themselves a student there is an implication of attending some kind of college, so don't be so literal. Anyhoo, that's a moot point because:

At least you have the brains to spot this for what it is, which makes 2 of us so far, so less bickering.

in a few weeks time it will all unravel

Agreed.

meditraitor

magpie wrote:

**** you!

But at least you have the brains to spot this for what it is, which makes 2 of us so far.

magpie

chair c unt cow? wtf?

ThatBloke

I had a look at the picture in the Guardian and this Max Carlish guy looks very like this lad who was on a documentary series about life in Soho, if it's the same guy it's definitely not a spoof, this lad was a photographer and was constantly dropping names and trying to look cool for the camera.

If anyone hears of a repeat being shown can they post it in here, I'm intrigued now.

BaZmO*

ThatBloke wrote:

I had a look at the picture in the Guardian and this Max Carlish guy looks very like this lad who was on a documentary series about life in Soho, if it's the same guy it's definitely not a spoof, this lad was a photographer and was constantly dropping names and trying to look cool for the camera.

If anyone hears of a repeat being shown can they post it in here, I'm intrigued now.

I know the guy you're talking about and it's not him, although he is as equally annoying as him. The guy you're talking about had a shaved head?

B.

Bungalow Bill

Why would it be a spoof? Is it so hard to believe that this guy has some personality disorder and questionable sexuality??
I was reading on another forum that he does lecture in some english university and most of them were incredibly shocked to see him in it.

Tristram

magpie wrote:

No, not him, the guy who was supposedly one of Max's students that he brought along to the gig, who looked like Alex Zane from MTV and was obviously an actor.

ah, k...lol

wud hav to be a helluvan elaborate spoof.still think its just a sad saddo.we will find out i guess.

I am MAN

It's not a spoof.

Do some work magpie.

ThatBloke

BaZmO* wrote:

I know the guy you're talking about and it's not him, although he is as equally annoying as him. The guy you're talking about had a shaved head?

B.

Yeah, he was on a documentary series that went out about a year back on late night ITV. Did everything for effect, that kind of guy, had a shaved head alright.

I didn't see the yoke, it's not the same guy then? Looks really like him

mycroft

magpie wrote:

Seriously, if that's not taking the piss I don't know what is. You just think this is unintentionally funny? Please.

magpie the dude is bi polar. He keeps talking about being a BAFTA winning filmaker, when in fact he just worked on a documentary which won a BAFTA. The guardian the newspaper you quoted used comma's around his status as a a "filmaker", which makes it dubious that they're in on the joke, and seeing as the guardian's tv critic co wrote nathan barley, they'd get the joke. But there isn't one. And you read the article online, I read it in print, it features a photo of the guy looking very dubious. The fact that he's not a media creation should surely be evident in the fact that said interview took place months ago. Would you create a character featured in an incident back in february, then a film a few months later, and back date his fame to his claims he won a BAFTA years ago.

magpie

It was then that I realised just how smart he was - he rhymed green with spleen and even understood the medieval meaning of the word spleen.

If you don't think this is taking the p1ss then you are more gullible than I would have thought possible.

BaZmO*

magpie wrote:

If you don't think this is taking the p1ss then you are more gullible than I would have thought possible.

Jeez man, let it go. Yes there has been many elaborate wind ups down through the years. But I find it hard to believe that somebody doing a wind up would go to the extreme of selling pictures of a star quite openly doing heroin for a bit of extra cash.

B.

Tristram

Chillax magpie.

cant wait to see who has to look sheepish and eat their words when this is resolved

magpie

An interesting interview:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14934-1609127,00.html

Once again with some classic p1ss taking

The next film I’m thinking about is an exploration of my ambiguous relationship with my Jewishness. It’s called Circumcise Me and it may feature my live circumcision. I don’t know whether I’m prepared to do that or not.

Toby Young has another take on it: http://www.tobyyoung.co.uk/blog_13/max_carlish_performance_artist.html

In other words, this wasn't a film about Pete Doherty, but a piece of post-modernist, media expressionism authored by Max Carlish.

Tristram

eh whatnow?

magpie

You mean you don't know what post-modernist media expressionism is? No wonder you were taken in

BaZmO*

magpie wrote:

An interesting interview:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14934-1609127,00.html

Yet from the same article, first line actually!

MC: I think it’s a really gripping piece. As you know, I didn’t have editorial control over it, so it’s not quite the film I would have made

Draw your own conclusions...

B.

Tristram

:eek:

lol

Yeah that must be it.Hoodwinked again by those Lyotard-wearing, Habermas-knowing, Jameson-living media expressionists