George Galloway!

mycroft

toiletduck wrote:

anyways back to Galloway, i would like to hear the truth of just what was his relationship with Iraq. I suspect he was involved in illegal oil dealings.

And as said as nauseum, even the paper who made the most damning allegations were unable to support them in court. So where is your proof? Or what is supporting your suspicions?

dahamsta

cdebru wrote:

I mean even John Major managed to be unfaithful to his wife

Only to curry favour.

A Dub in Glasgo

toiletduck wrote:

anyways back to Galloway, i would like to hear the truth of just what was his relationship with Iraq. I suspect he was involved in illegal oil dealings.

Did you mean suspect or hope?

toiletduck

As i've said i just suspect. I dont have any evidence, never said i did. Im open to the possibility that he's innocent.

toiletduck

dahamsta wrote:

Only to curry favour.

Good one!

cdebru

Spacedog wrote:

Oona King said herself that Galloway won fairly and that she didn't consider that her seat was 'stolen', she also said that her being black should not be a factor in critising him or anyone, the accusation came from Paxman on the night of the election on BBC. I find it strange that she supported the war so whole-hartedly when there was such opposition in her own constituncy.

.

I think it is a bit racist that people keep coming up with this **** that oona king was black so what

Do they think just because she happens to be Black and Female that no one should stand against her it is democracy nobody is gauranteed a seat you have to fight for it like everyone else. This time she happened to lose that is the electorates choice.

Galloway targeted a seat that was most likely to support his anti war stance and he got it right they did
It smacks of rascism and sexism to suggest that he should not have stood there because it was a sitting black woman MP

Surely the message should be that you pick your MP not based on gender race or religion but on their policies and your belief in their ability to represent you.

mycroft

toiletduck wrote:

As i've said i just suspect. I dont have any evidence, never said i did. Im open to the possibility that he's innocent.

So its a wild unsubstantiated allegation that you can't support?

Neat. I could suggest that I suspect several of the mods of this forum engage in sexual congress with goats, and when challenged on this I could say "I don't have any evidence, I just suspect it".

If you're going to bandy about accusations it's beholden upon you to support them. Fling enough mud and it starts to stick.

cdebru

toiletduck wrote:

As i've said i just suspect. I dont have any evidence, never said i did. Im open to the possibility that he's innocent.

he is innocent he has not been charged never mind convicted of anything

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

Neat. I could suggest that I suspect several of the mods of this forum engage in sexual congress with goats, and when challenged on this I could say "I don't have any evidence, I just suspect it".

.

its not several only one or two (i suspect)

Boggle

if the anti-war side won the debate then there would have been no war!

I don't remember much of a debate. The decision was made and nothing and no-one could change their minds.

He didnt have to go and shake the hand of the tyrant, at least Rumsfeld (who i have little time for) only went there because his boss (President Regan) asked him to.

If Galloway is to be believed then he was trying to help out the ordinary Iraqi. Shaking hands with a tyrant is not a crime, especially when you are only doing so in order to try and help people. (did rumsfeld shake hands?)

I pissed myself laughing watching Galloway testify, I thought of Bertie's arselicking of George Bush (who IMO is whe world's biggest tyrant) and wished our politicians had the balls to speak the truth more often.

I don't like it either but, in fairness, bertie was stuck between a rock and a hardplace as we depend heavily on American multi-nationals to keep our economy afloat. Anyone care to speculate the effects of intel pulling out of Dublin or Dell pulling out of Limerick??

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

toiletduck

mycroft wrote:

So its a wild unsubstantiated allegation that you can't support?
....
If you're going to bandy about accusations it's beholden upon you to support them. Fling enough mud and it starts to stick.

Im free to have my opinions, it's called freedom of speech.

Boggle wrote:

did rumsfeld shake hands?

indeed he did, did you not the video? When i saw it i was surprised how old Rumsfeld looked twenty years ago! What is it with Americans working til their very old! e.g. Greenspan, Regan, Dan Rather, that senator who turned 100 last year! etc.

Back to Galloway, im sure the truth will come out whatever it may be.

Hobbes

toiletduck wrote:

As i've said i just suspect. I dont have any evidence, never said i did. Im open to the possibility that he's innocent.

Hmm, anyway I like to hear the truth of you being caught with farm animals. I don't have any evidence, just suspect. I'm open to the possibility that your innocent though.*


* Note this is just trying to prove a point on your comments, not directed to you having fun with farm animals. Your innocent of that right.

toiletduck

Hobbes wrote:

* Note this is just trying to prove a point on your comments, not directed to you having fun with farm animals. Your innocent of that right.

jaysus, you wake up one morning in the middle of a field with your pants off and people never never let you forget it!

the difference between your suspicions and mine is that i didnt make the allegations about Galloway, i've been hearing and reading about them for well over a year now. Im basing my suspicions that he's guilty, of what other people have been saying, on the fact that i dont like him one bit and would never trust him. Thats a stupid reason i know but when you hear allegations against someone who you feel that way about, you're obviously going to be inclincled to believe the accusers. to remain absolutely 100% neutral would be impossible imo. as ive said im sure the truth will come out either way.


btw i think whatever our political differences we can agree that beastiality is wrong!

mycroft

toiletduck wrote:

Im free to have my opinions, it's called freedom of speech.

Yes but again, you're going to have to come back to why and how you formed this opinion, and whats it based on, otherwise it's another wild unsubstaniated allegation. It means when you actually, if ever, come up with proof, it's easier to disregard as just another "wild allegation" (for reference see; boy who cried wolf, The) Also it could just be seen as muck being flung to discredit a man who you can't prove to have done anything wrong.

indeed he did, did you not the video? When i saw it i was surprised how old Rumsfeld looked twenty years ago! What is it with Americans working til their very old! e.g. Greenspan, Regan, Dan Rather, that senator who turned 100 last year! etc.

Lack of a decent social security system?

And that senator is dead.

Back to Galloway, im sure the truth will come out whatever it may be.

Really? how? And how do you think the truth will really come out when you're mouthing off about suspicions based on a "hunch"

I mean the whole mod farm animal thing can't be proved, though hobbes has some photos........

Boggle

I work for HP ,an american multi-national & i seriously doubt they would have pulled out of Ireland because Ireland refused to let the US use Shannon & i doubt Bush (as much as i hate him) would have asked them to.

The french objected to the war and the sale of French products into the states suffered dramatically. If the Irish withdrew the use of shannon then that would be actively seen as taking Iraq's side in the dispute and would be generate serious bad will from the americans. Ireland is already an expensive location for placing a site so this could be straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of operating from here.

IMO the Government has used this as a smokescreen & besides i would be happy to get another job if it meant saving Iraqi lives.

Where?? You would be competing with thousands of your fellow co-workers looking for a limited amount of jobs. Not to mention the suppliers feeeding those companies who will now go out of business. Needless to say I have my doubts about our economy's ability to cope with either HP or Intel's withdrawal from the country.

For a crappy house a family is estimated to need a combined income of 90k to be able to afford a house so a few thousand families with one or both earners being dropped to welfare would result in a lot of families struggling to keep up repayments. How many of them would be able to get a job in time - if at all.

dahamsta

Boggle wrote:

The french objected to the war and the sale of French products into the states suffered dramatically. If the Irish withdrew the use of shannon then that would be actively seen as taking Iraq's side in the dispute and would be generate serious bad will from the americans.

Yeah. All those guys selling "Irish" air and Korean-made plastic leprechauns on eBay would be out of a job! (The argument about US corporations located here pulling out has been made and refuted here many times, so I'm not sure what else is left.)

adam

Flukey

toiletduck wrote:

if the anti-war side won the debate then there would have been no war!

Oh they won the debate alright, but as we all know governments don't always let a thing like public opinion and even official opinions stand in their way of doing things.

Hobbes

Boggle wrote:

The french objected to the war and the sale of French products into the states suffered dramatically.

That is not entirely true. While there was a backlash on business that were visible to the public nothing else really changed. A friend in work in the US her husband has a French resturant in Boston. He lost a lot of business, but it was because the name of the resturant was french. He changed it to English name and business went back to normal.

Spacedog

Boggle wrote:

I don't like it either but, in fairness, bertie was stuck between a rock and a hardplace as we depend heavily on American multi-nationals to keep our economy afloat. Anyone care to speculate the effects of intel pulling out of Dublin or Dell pulling out of Limerick??

Perhaps this belongs on another thread, but Ireland was a better place before the Celtic Tiger economy kicked in, sure people were poor, but we believed in ourselves and our independence, we got by, we bearly had rooves over our heads or food in our bellies, but by the prices of property these days we are struggling just as much, if not more to make ends meet.

mycroft

Spacedog wrote:

Perhaps this belongs on another thread, but Ireland was a better place before the Celtic Tiger economy kicked in, sure people were poor, but we believed in ourselves and our independence, we got by, we bearly had rooves over our heads or food in our bellies, but by the prices of property these days we are struggling just as much, if not more to make ends meet.

[off topic]

[rosetinted glasses]
Ah to be jaysus, back in the day, well times they'd be tough, auch you'd have to run five miles to be in with chance of job, and things well they'd be tight and sure you'd always been in the fear of the glimmer man but people they were good to each other, and sure it'd be grand to go down to the local and have a pint of the porter, and a grand ole song.
[/rosetinted glasses]

Spacedog lecturing people on how it was good we were poor but we were happier is absurd when you don't remember the 80s. When the green card was delieverance, and there was no work to speak of, and the boat to the UK was near mandatory.

We're dealing with the implications of the boom, of an economy that grew far too fast. Both my parents were born on farms without indoor plumbing, all three of their children went to 3rd level education. Anouncing pogress is bad, m'kay while you benefit from that progress, is, can you guess what it is?

[/off topic]

Flukey

Spacedog, it could be said that one of the reasons for the Celtic Tiger was that we did begin to believe in ourselves and got the confidence to do things, instead of leaving.

Spacedog

I recall the 80s and had it worse than your folks 'Crofty, I lived under the stairs and was fed pins once a fortnight, our cave dwelling ancestors didn't have running water, they didn't whine about it.

Flukey, emigration was unfortunate, but it was a testiment to the sprit, will, independence and resourcefulness of the Irish. Our newly found overconfidence deminishes this spirit via our dependence on the greater world economy which is far beyond our control.

Anyway, waaaaaaaaay off topic, fire up a new thread in retro if you'd like to discuss it.

Boggle

That is not entirely true. While there was a backlash on business that were visible to the public nothing else really changed. A friend in work in the US her husband has a French resturant in Boston. He lost a lot of business, but it was because the name of the resturant was french. He changed it to English name and business went back to normal.

Put it this way - the french were villainised for merely questioning the americans. Us withdrawing the use of Shannon would have been portrayed in the US media as almost an act of aggression by a state who owes alot to America (in terms of jobs, etc..). Can you imagine the ensuing propaganda and how companies like Intel (who have already lost some of the incentives we offered to come here due to EU rulings) might consider this a good time to move their operations to a cheaper accession state?

(The argument about US corporations located here pulling out has been made and refuted here many times, so I'm not sure what else is left.)

Has it?? We DEPEND on these american companies at present to prop us up. Do you think that startup Irish companies can fill the vacuum? Trust me, the govt has made it not far off impossible for a new manuf company to be built in this country...

Perhaps this belongs on another thread, but Ireland was a better place before the Celtic Tiger economy kicked in, sure people were poor, but we believed in ourselves and our independence, we got by, we bearly had rooves over our heads or food in our bellies, but by the prices of property these days we are struggling just as much, if not more to make ends meet.

Undoubtedly we are better off in many ways now but you do make some valid points re house prices. Unfortunately, I think the Celtic Tiger was so badly handled that our economy is prone to falling back to 80's standards (just this time we are looking at a serious housing problem as most new families need 2 parents working to afford a house) as the govt wasted so much of the money and failed to promote enough Irish indigenous industry to get away from our dependency on foreign multi's...

dahamsta

Boggle wrote:

Put it this way - the french were villainised for merely questioning the americans.

Which was completely wrong, and stupid. Is commerce our god now, are we simply slaves to it?

Has it?? We DEPEND on these american companies at present to prop us up.

As has been said before, Ireland would need to do an awful lot of bad to America before these corporations - who are slaves to commerce, and nothing else - would pull out.

adam

closing this now-it's gone way past its bed time.