"Stick with the kebabs"

pete

Mr. J. Higgins: Will the Taoiseach state clearly if it is his intention today to hand over a majority of Aer Lingus to private interests? If our national airline finishes up in the hands of the sharks who dominate international big business the Taoiseach, his party and his Government will be guilty of outright treachery and of stabbing in the back the thousands of Aer Lingus workers and those associated with the company past and present who have kept the national airline going in good times and in bad, who have paid in taxes much more than many other sectors of our society and multiples of any meagre State subventions that Governments have given it.

It would stab in the back the communities that depend on the national airline and support it. Privatisation would be an abject admission by the Government that it is incapable of supervising a national asset in the interests of the people, surrendering it to the casino economics that currently dominate international capitalism.

It is not necessary to privatise Aer Lingus for investment. The billions of euro that the Government has wasted in the overruns on the road programme alone would buy planes to fly the entire population around the world several times over and for free.

Has anyone else been struck by the silence of the lambs on the Fianna Fáil backbenches? In the past when cuts in Aer Lingus or privatisation was mooted we heard shrill cries, perhaps strangled cries would be more accurate, from the Government backbenches. This time, when real opposition is needed, when they need to stand up and be counted we have the silence of the lambs. The same lambs who often found their voices to allege that small Dáil parties and Independent Deputies have no power cannot even bleat. At least we have not lost the power of speech to oppose the sabotage of our national airline in the same way as they have.


The Taoiseach: Even the Deputy does not believe that raiméis but he has to say it.


Mr. J. Higgins: What raiméis?


Mr. C. Lenihan: What the Deputy has just spoken is the best definition of raiméis I have heard.


Mr. Kenny: That is socialist bleat.


Mr. C. Lenihan: Deputy Higgins should stick with the kebabs.


The Taoiseach: That is extreme left, even further left than I would ever dream of going. Deputy Higgins knows that none of that is fact. Aer Lingus wants to grow and maintain jobs. The staff and trade unions in Aer Lingus have no objection to equity being put into Aer Lingus. How it is structured and formed are concerns for them but the concept that Aer Lingus can stay as it is and not expand when aircraft cost €150 million is not a sustainable position. We must move into a world that allows the company to examine new opportunities it has identified.

The company has worked hard over the past few years to restructure under the survival plan. In case Deputy Joe Higgins forgets, Aer Lingus like many other airlines in the world almost went under a few years ago and that position was not just caused by the attack on 11 September. Because of trade unions, staff and Departments working with the company, that was turned around. What it needs and wants to do now is to grow back into its previous position. This arrangement will be carefully managed and organised with advisers, and the percentage of equity, the management structure on the other side, and what safeguards are required are all issues for discussion.

For the airline to build on what it has succeeded in doing during two difficult periods, one in 1993 and the other in 2001, it needs equity. To argue otherwise is to totally misrepresent the interests of the workers about whom Deputy Joe Higgins purports to be concerned.


Mr. J. Higgins: The snide comment from behind the Taoiseach that I should stick with the kebabs, referring to my fight against the exploitation of Gama workers, ill behoves the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, who has responsibility for overseas development.

so what's "raiméis" then?

sceptre

pete wrote:

so what's "raiméis" then?

Nonsense. Usually with a twist of bitter lemon.

m1ke

To those that say it was just a gaffe: well it was the kind of comment that you could perhaps forgive if:

a) you were in the pub and under the influence of a few pints
b) if it was coming from anyone else besides an official representative of ireland abroad

The Turkish embassy should definitely lodge a complaint... how can they be expected to deal with someone who shows such contempt and then tenders a mere indirect apology.

He should resign or the Taoiseach should show some leadership and remove him. To show such a high level of incompetence and unprofessionalism in your ministerial post is inexcusable. If he isn't removed it calls into question the quality of all our public representatives.

Esel

He could have claimed he made a genuine mistake. Didn't Bertie use the word 'kebab' when he meant to say 'cabal' not too long ago?

"What I meant to say was '..stick with the cabals'. Sorry about the confusion. It was Bertie's fault really".

bonkey

Just as an interesting counter-point...CNN were reporting last night about some hot water that Vicente Fox landed himself into when he made a comment recently that Mexican migrant workers in the US were doing jobs that "not even blacks want".

jc

boidey

Lenihan made an off the cuff ill considered remark to a TD that has campaigned against the activities of Gama construction towards its workers. A company that has been rewarded more than one govt funded project. I would expect nothing less from his fathers son.
Plus ca change....................
Bertie could do the decent thing and sack the ejit but then again probably will not

eigrod

For months the government, of which Mr. Lenihan is a junior minister, ignored the plight of the Gama workers. Mr. Higgins went out and did something about it to improve the worker's lot, and then he gets comments like that thrown at him from said junior minister. How ridiculous is that ? Sums up the arrogance of this government, as so many other issues have.

Mighty_Mouse

It's a lovely "cead mile failte" feel to things especially in the context on McDowells "these people" remarks about refugees.

Poor aul "Minister for JUSTICE" McDowell was complaining about the UN restrictions on how refugees must be processed. In his ideal world such chaters wouldnt exist and he could put "these people" (mind you after a quick interview) back on the next plane.

This is the same guy would was delighted as kids about to sit their leaving certs were deported in the middle of the night back to Nigeria.

Lehinan only has a political career because his dad was a skilled politician. The man in a muppet. Imagine he is going to remain our representative overseas. Can't wait until he has to represented us with the kebabs!!

swiss

Personally, I think he's being skewered by the political establishment for what was essentially a takeaway remark.

DublinWriter

eigrod wrote:

For months the government, of which Mr. Lenihan is a junior minister, ignored the plight of the Gama workers. Mr. Higgins went out and did something about it to improve the worker's lot

Quite true, but then again, what would you expect as FF have always been the 'friend' of the construction industry.

Of course he won't be sacked. He'd need to be caught butchering babies on Kildare St. for Bertie to maybe consider sacking him. He's also Mary O'Rourke's nephew. FF'ers tend to look after their own, espeically those with connections.

Mighty_Mouse

Personally, I think he's being skewered by the political establishment for what was essentially a takeaway remark.

I like it!

halkar

Reminds me one of the Late Late shows when Gay was hosting. There was a joke:
What do you call a Turkish Baby?
Kebabi

Anyway, he should be taken to Kilmainham Jail and spend rest of his life there as a cleaner

saltar

mike65 wrote:

Lennihan has already issued an appology to all who took time out to be offended.



I would'nt put the crime of McDaid on the same planet as Conors faux pas.

Mike.

The standards of both these public representatives is disgusting to say the least. As an Irish person I feel embarrassed that these two still take our taxes and can do what they do so impunitively.
They have been put, where they are, by the people, and the people will put them straight back out.

Cork

DublinWriter wrote:

Quite true, but then again, what would you expect as FF have always been the 'friend' of the construction industry.

Of course he won't be sacked. He'd need to be caught butchering babies on Kildare St. for Bertie to maybe consider sacking him. He's also Mary O'Rourke's nephew. FF'ers tend to look after their own, espeically those with connections.

He apolgised. But typically - it has now turned into a cheap political football.

It was FF who intrioduced the mimimum wage, before this workers could be legally paid from 0.

Those who criticise a throw away remark - must never watch programmes like the Simpsons. Do these people write into News International about the St Patricks Day eposodes?

Hopefully politicians will never crack a southsider/ northsider joke.

The Fine Gael leader’s offence was to tell a silly story in public which involved the use of the word ‘******.’

Do FG know about people in glass houses throwing stones?

Avoid political footballs. Deal with racisim period.

DublinWriter

Cork wrote:

Those who criticise a throw away remark - must never watch programmes like the Simpsons. Do these people write into News International about the St Patricks Day eposodes?

Unbelievable. So you're basically saying that if it's alright for the The Simpsons it's alright for our National Parliament?

Cork, you've finally lost the plot, dude. D'oh, etc.

More disgusting still was Mary O'Rourke's comment on Gerry Ryan this morning about Emmett Stagg.

Stagg called for Lennihan's resignation yesterday and it appears that good ol' Aunty Mary is prepared to snuffle around in the trough for a bit of personal mud to throw at Stagg in defence of her nephew.

Sickening. The Gombeen men are running the show and we've no one to blame but ourselves.

Cork

He apolgised. What more do people expect?

Should Emett Stagg be above criticism?

Should we also not mention Enda's use of the N word.

Labour seem to have no problems with Enda.

This incident has turned into a political football, cheap tabloid fodder.

When has an apology not been enough.

Emmett Stagg was not forced to resign.

Duras

ferdi wrote:

jesus i'd kill for a kebab

It means you never tried shaorma...

paperboy

found this very good cartoon..

http://www.ireland.com/cartoons/turner/2005/0519/

DublinWriter

Cork wrote:

He apolgised. What more do people expect?

His resignation. It wasn't a proper apology, it was a qualified one ("I apologise if...")

Cork wrote:

Should Emett Stagg be above criticism?

Nope. No politician should be. However, dragging up personal issues he's had in the past, which were quite frankly no one's business but his, is beyond contempt and should not even enter this debate about Lennihan's racist comments in our National Parliament.

In the context of FF's recent history of greasy-till fumbling and elected members drunkenly speeding up the wrong end of dual carriage-ways and running people over, Emmett's transgression was minor.

Cork wrote:

Should we also not mention Enda's use of the N word.

That was in the Dail, was it?

Cork wrote:

Labour seem to have no problems with Enda. Emmett Stagg was not forced to resign.

Because FF were in coalition with Labour at the time Emmet's problems occurred. FF had no problems with him then.

FF - Hypocrites, liars, cheats all.

Nuttzz

DublinWriter wrote:

That was in the Dail, was it?

does it really matter that it was in the Dail? Does saying it in the dail make it a "more" racist comment?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

simu

saltar wrote:

They have been put, where they are, by the people, and the people will put them straight back out.

But sadly, they probably won't. This will be forgotten by election time. I'd be in favour of his resignation but it doesn't seem likely given what McDaid got away with.

hawkmoon269

uberwolf wrote:

it's actually racist IMO. How'n'ever as with everything else, individuals in this government believe themselves immune to repercussions for their actions and refuse to be accountable.

I'm looking at you McDaid

How do you mean? In what sense does McDaid believe himself "immune to repercussions" and in what sense does he "refuse to be accountable?

He will go on trial, probably plead guilty, and in all probability receive a lengthy driving ban and maybe a jail sentence. Even if he does not receive a jail sentence he will if found guilty have to pay a lot more for insurance.When that happens, will you admit that you have prejudged the issue?

hawkmoon269

simu wrote:

But sadly, they probably won't. This will be forgotten by election time. I'd be in favour of his resignation but it doesn't seem likely given what McDaid got away with.

Sorry, did I miss something? Is McDaid's court case over and done with, and was he cleared? No, so how can you say that McDaid "got away with" anything?

shoegirl

cdebru wrote:

hardly a faux pas to refer to turkish people as kebabs

especially when you are the minister with responsibility for overseas developement

Is this the kind of rascist atitude we want representing us in the area of overseas developement

Excellent point and here we have the problem. A politican who "should know better" using language that even outside the Dáil would still raise eyebrows.

We have a growing problem with racism in Ireland and in particular with growing social acceptability to spew language that is overtly racist or broderlines on being offensive. That is a serious problem. When a government sees it as "ok" for its members to use such language, it implies that it is ok for everybody.

We really do need to reflect on the growing problem of racism and the kind of implications it has for this country in future. The way in which it has grown in other countries is pernicious and nasty and I don't think there is any place for it outside a kennel. The other problem is that having government members who express racist attitudes or use language that could be construed as racism undermines any state-sponsored attempt to combat racism.

KnowItAll

I think everyones making a mountain out of a mole hill here. A jokes a joke. I laugh at the drunken Paddy jokes. Lets all get a sence of humour!

hawkmoon269

I'd tend to put Lenihan's comments in roughly the same vein as Albert Reynold's faux-pas a few years ago - "Ah sure, dat's wimmin for ya!".

That said, in my view he should make some gesture of support/solidarity with the Gama workers to show that he sincerely regrets the comments and realises they were wrong.

Esel

KnowItAll wrote:

I think everyones making a mountain out of a mole hill here. A jokes a joke. I laugh at the drunken Paddy jokes. Lets all get a sence of humour!

It is easier to trip over a molehill than a mountain. The guy was in the mob, heckling for Bertie ((when Bertie stumbled on 'rubbish'(?) and said 'raimeis' instead)). He never expected to be called on it (listen to how unclear it is on the soundtrack). But he *was* called on it - seems Joe is a good listener as well as a good speaker!

Stick to the spuds, and take your lumps, lads.

sceptre

KnowItAll wrote:

I think everyones making a mountain out of a mole hill here. A jokes a joke. I laugh at the drunken Paddy jokes. Lets all get a sence of humour!

And a taunt is a ... ?

It wasn't presented as a joke, I think I can safely assume it wasn't intended as a joke and he didn't mention it being a joke when he later mentioned the possibility that he might have caused offence to persons unspecified. You can run with the mountain/molehill thing as an excuse and see if that flies but I rather doubt anyone will believe that he suddenly decided to try out something from that Bernard Manning-style standup routine he's secretly been practising in front of the bathroom mirror. I'd agree that there's a long list of things he could have done that would be worse by orders of magnitude but he could have kept his flycatcher closed and not looked either dumb or unfunny (as he managed to look both in a short sentence) at all.

simu

hawkmoon269 wrote:

Sorry, did I miss something? Is McDaid's court case over and done with, and was he cleared? No, so how can you say that McDaid "got away with" anything?

Uh, he's still a TD, no?