Iarnród Éireann - thieving scumbags

LegacyUser

my annual bus and rail card was stolen the other day, was in my wallet which was lifted.

if that's not bad enough, i have to pay Iarnród Éireann €84 to replace the card!!!!

rang dublin bus and they said, i'll need to pay, €12 for each remaing month.

fúcking money making scumbags, are they not making enough with there no change policy, and there ridiculus 30 texts for dart timetables, which you have to use cause they don't seem to have timetables anymore.

a bad service that just gets worse.

Debyaka

Jeasus thats shocking!!!
Get a car buddy it would probably be cheaper and you dont have to sit at a bus stop beside some smelly knacker..

Think of the freedom!!

Beruthiel

paperclip wrote:

if that's not bad enough, i have to pay Iarnród Éireann €84 to replace the card!!!!

rang dublin bus and they said, i'll need to pay, €12 for each remaing month..

I have had dealings with them in the past
I found that going to the customer services and not leaving the premises until I had the name of their manager will work (can be a stubern biatch when I want to)
sent him a withering two page letter on what I thought of their 'service',
rang up to see if he got it
rang up again to see if he was responding
got my money back
try it!

parsi

Ok so maybe i'm missing the point - but what exactly do you want them to do ? Surely the thieving scumbags are the ones who stole the card in the first place ?

passive

I think you are missing the point and i think "not charge him e84 for getting robbed" is what he wants them to do. Just maybe...

LegacyUser

well, i'd like them to replace my card, without charging me €84.

my wallet and phone got nicked, i just think this is a disgrace, that they'd profit in this mannor.

and yes the fúcker who stole my 5hit is a thieving scumbag, ianród éireann are worse as you would really expect more from them, rather than kicking you when you're down.

parsi wrote:

Ok so maybe i'm missing the point - but what exactly do you want them to do ? Surely the thieving scumbags are the ones who stole the card in the first place ?

seamus

I guess they have to be careful, I'm sure students try the "I lost my card/my card was stolen" thing all the time to try and blag free cards.

Perhaps if you went to a Garda station and filled out a report, they'd replace your card?

the_syco

paperclip wrote:

if that's not bad enough, i have to pay Iarnród Éireann €84 to replace the card!!!!

rang dublin bus and they said, i'll need to pay, €12 for each remaing month.

Nice. I currently pay €17 a week for bus only. How much for a yearly bus and rail ticket?

BuffyBot

It's probably to stop numerous false claims being made by everyone who loses their tickets down the back of the sofa etc etc

Scruff

yes it sucks but will you not also have to buy yourself a replacement phone and sim card to use your mobile phone providers service again??

LegacyUser

i've gone to the guards and made a statement.

the fúcker even used my credit card just before i canceled it, he's on cctv in centra.

he also made a load of calls on my mobile.

so the guards have a snapshot of him, and a list of his mates phone numbers. that was a week agon, and i haven't heard anything back.

still, i didn't hold out much hope in the guards actaully doing anything bout it.

but ye, i get your point, there are scammers out there.

but the card is not supposed to be used without valid id, i know they don't enforce this, but that's not my problem.

maybe they need some sort of card that can be made invalid when somthing like this happens, we have the technology.

seamus wrote:

I guess they have to be careful, I'm sure students try the "I lost my card/my card was stolen" thing all the time to try and blag free cards.

Perhaps if you went to a Garda station and filled out a report, they'd replace your card?

Scruff

the_syco wrote:

Nice. I currently pay €17 a week for bus only. How much for a yearly bus and rail ticket?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares_and_tickets/annual.asp

bus only = €710
bus + rail = €910

theres also monthly ones
http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares_and_tickets/monthly.asp

and weekly ones
http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares_and_tickets/weekly.asp

JackieChan

Thats why I always take a photocopy of my monthly train ticket and hold on to the receipt until the end of the month.Just in case mine goes AWOL.
If I had these details there is no way I'd pay for my ticket again...it costs 196/month as is

LegacyUser

replacement sim was free, new phone i had to pay for of course.

i canceled my lazer and credit cards, wont get charged for them, and its not like i'm paying €850 a year for them either

Scruff wrote:

yes it sucks but will you not also have to buy yourself a replacement phone and sim card to use your mobile phone providers service again??

LegacyUser

they still wouldn't entertain you.

JackieChan wrote:

Thats why I always take a photocopy of my monthly train ticket and hold on to the receipt until the end of the month.Just in case mine goes AWOL.
If I had these details there is no way I'd pay for my ticket again...it costs 196/month as is

Dr.Feelgood

Íarnród Éireann- are without any question an organisation of thieves bandits rogues and really really ill service- massively overpriced- you'd swear were in a country large enough to warrant such expensive trains

but for gods sake- If Ronan Keating can walk the lenght of it in a few mere days, how can a return Dundalk-Cork cost more than return flights to London Edinburgh- Nice- Paris-Endhoven, i'm going to stop now.

Any room for privatisation in the railroad transport industry???

MarkoP11

If you lose the ticket or if it gets stolen its your problem really, the fact the offered to replace it significantly less that the tickets remaining value is generous

They do have a list of all annual ticket holders so you can't spoof the system

There is no way currently to lock out a ticket which has been stolen i.e someone could claim a ticket stolen, get a replacement and give the original to a friend.

Under the smart card system it will be possible to log the ticket as stolen and prevent its use on the system just as you would with a mobile phone, in that case I'd imagine there would be a small admin fee to lock the stolen ticket and issue a new smart card to the customer, the current luas set up its 3 euro the same as the cost of the card in the first place can't say fairer than that

gerrydublin

paperclip wrote:

but the card is not supposed to be used without valid id, i know they don't enforce this, but that's not my problem.

maybe they need some sort of card that can be made invalid when somthing like this happens, we have the technology.

I thought they were going to bring in biometric technology to tickets whose cost warranted such requirements. People would scan into tickets machines and the turnstiles would open on the way through, but the whole Civil Liberties group said you can't do that because then IE might have a database with everyone's details, and they might..might...might...might do something really awful with it! So, like everything in Ireland, the greater good lose out.

LegacyUser

it was my fault that i was robbed?

technicaly you need a valid picture id to use this, as the person who robbed it doesn't than it should be, in their eyes, invalid.

so, if the ticket is invalid, why do you think they are being "generous" by making me pay €84 for a ticket i've allready paid for.

MarkoP11 wrote:

If you lose the ticket or if it gets stolen its your problem really, the fact the offered to replace it significantly less that the tickets remaining value is generous

They do have a list of all annual ticket holders so you can't spoof the system

miju

you think thats bad I just got fined €500 by them for "fare evasion" and i now have a criminal record it's ridiculous

i go to train station no-one in ticket booth so go to platform hop on train intending to pay at destination (as i sometimes do) guy no train asks me for ticket told him the story and offered to give him the money (as i sometimes do) he says he cant take money anymore and it has to be billed to my address SO (in one of my dumber moments i fully oblige) get a letter in the door asking for €50 for admin charges (even though it DOESN'T say in the letter how or where to pay it anyway i say **** that off to court i'll go,

I get up give my side of the story (the gods honest truth with no exagerations or twists) Ticket inspector gets up in court lies his ****ing head off saying I was abusive and so on and without batting an eyelid the judge whips a nice €500 fine and a conviction my way. the law in this country is a joke the small guys always get all the **** and the big guns have the run of the land

bring on privatisation and get rid of the ancient dinosaurs of Dublin Bus and Ioanroad Eirann (spelling???) might even get a good service rather than waiting an hour and a half for a bus to arrive at your bus stop

i could rant all day but theres no point no-one ever listens

okidoki987

the fúcker even used my credit card just before i canceled it, he's on cctv in centra.

Just in case, you will not need to pay the Credit Card company anything for what he bought using your card.

Trojan

raptor, I hope you've got yourself a solicitor and are appealing.

the_syco

_raptor_ wrote:

i go to train station no-one in ticket booth so go to platform hop on train intending to pay at destination (as i sometimes do) guy no train asks me for ticket told him the story and offered to give him the money (as i sometimes do) he says he cant take money anymore and it has to be billed to my address SO (in one of my dumber moments i fully oblige) get a letter in the door asking for €50 for admin charges (even though it DOESN'T say in the letter how or where to pay it anyway i say **** that off to court i'll go

The two bolded parts. Explain this to a lawyer, and ask where you stand. IMO, the bit about the conductor not being able to take cash is BS. Done it lots of time.

murphaph

Bad luck paperclip. effing scum, hopefully karma will get 'em in a nice accident involving loss of limbs someday. We can all but hope.

I'm unfamiliar with the annual ticket but if it needs ID that's TIED to the ticket (like the ID serial # being written on the ticket) then I'd be mightilly p*ssed off if I had to pay that much for replacement. If the ticket can just be used by someone else with a different ID then I can see their point about giving it to your mates etc.

I personally think in any sytsem that such an expensive piece of paper can not be cancelled following theft is plain stupid. I know that monthly tix in germany are like cash-you buy em from a machine and are transferable so if you lose it-tough, but annual tix are registered so if it's robbed you can get replacements for an admin fee.

MarkoP11

All annual and monthly tickets must be accompanied by a ID card

The ID number is printed or written on the ticket, that said in 6 years of having a monthly ticket never had the id checked. Just having a id card was enough. The sight of annual ticket is enough to keep the checkers happy

Mag strip tickets can't be locked out, the ticketing system just can't cope, smart cards are a whole different game

Its tough luck if the ticket goes astray but thats life, if someone nicked my bike I wouldn't give out to the shop which sold it. I'm sure its in the T & C that IE are not responsible for lost or stolen tickets

Metrobest

A simple solution. Abolish annual tickets until there is a foolproof method for making stolen tickets invalid. Divide the cost of annual ticket by 12 and here you have the cost of a monthly ticket. That way, if a ticket gets stolen the owner can just by a new one, fuss is minimised. The €84 charge to replace the stolen ticket is absolutely outrageous; can you imagine an airline treating one of their best customers (ie. frequent flyers) so awfully? IE can and does get away with this because it is not accountable to its customers.

LegacyUser

MarkoP11 wrote:

I'm unfamiliar with the annual ticket but if it needs ID that's TIED to the ticket (like the ID serial # being written on the ticket) then I'd be mightilly p*ssed off if I had to pay that much for replacement.

ye, there terms & conditions say the ticket can't be used unless you have a valid id, with the same number that's on the ticket.

just forked out the €84, and asked why i had to pay this, they said cause the ticket can be used, when i said that, acording to them, the ticket can't be used without a valid id, he just gave me a blank look.

muppets.

i asked them were they gonna upgrade this stoneage system, he said somthing about more sophicitated cards, being brought in around october.

LegacyUser

i know, dude actually had the nerve to say they were doing it out of curtosy!

€850 for a ticket, of course people are gonna either get robbed, mugged, or simply loose it.

Metrobest wrote:

A simple solution. Abolish annual tickets until there is a foolproof method for making stolen tickets invalid. Divide the cost of annual ticket by 12 and here you have the cost of a monthly ticket. That way, if a ticket gets stolen the owner can just by a new one, fuss is minimised. The €84 charge to replace the stolen ticket is absolutely outrageous; can you imagine an airline treating one of their best customers (ie. frequent flyers) so awfully? IE can and does get away with this because it is not accountable to its customers.

LegacyUser

ye, was onto the credit card fraud department, no problem what's so ever, just told me not to worry bout it.

iarnrod eireann could take a leaf out of their book.

okidoki987 wrote:

Just in case, you will not need to pay the Credit Card company anything for what he bought using your card.

MG

MarkoP11 wrote:

Its tough luck if the ticket goes astray but thats life, if someone nicked my bike I wouldn't give out to the shop which sold it. I'm sure its in the T & C that IE are not responsible for lost or stolen tickets

I think the point is that he has not purchased the card as a product, rather he has purchased the right to travel on their services for a year. The card is merely a mechanism for accessing the service he has paid for. If the policy is to ensure that the holder of the card is the same as the user and records exist of who purchased cards, then the issuing of a replacement card shouldn't be such a problem.

Metrobest

paperclip wrote:

€850 for a ticket, of course people are gonna either get robbed, mugged, or simply loose it.

Yep, the only reason people buy those tickets is that they're cheaper. Nobody wants to carry round an €850 ticket in their pocket all day. Why don't they scrap the annual ticket. Instead they could allow passengers who bring in 12 consecutive monthly tickets a €50 cashback or a free monthly ticket or something. Imagination is the key thing Irish Rail has a poverty of.

Irish Rail have the most insane, complicated ticket types of any rail network I've travelled on. The claim that their intercity tickets are amongst the "cheapest in europe" is bogus.

MarkoP11

Metrobest wrote:

Irish Rail have the most insane, complicated ticket types of any rail network I've travelled on. The claim that their intercity tickets are amongst the "cheapest in europe" is bogus.

Crap Iarnrod Eireann are one of the cheapest, simplest ticketing systems on earth one price more or less, compared to the nightmare in the UK its easy simple and most of all transpartent. I have a nice independent review in a bar chart somewhere for the fares but while we wait (it has us mid table behind Germany something like 14 out of 25), of course Metobest won't like this since Iarnrod Eireann did the survey but still

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2004/01/11/story350682747.aspp

Irish rail fares 40% below the EU average
Sunday, January 11, 2004

By Niamh Connolly

InterCity rail fares in Ireland are up to 40 per cent lower than average European fares, according to a survey by Iarnrod Éireann.
The study of 13 EU countries found that only Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and Italian passengers paid less for weekend return fares on trips of 267 kilometres and 206 kilometres (equivalent to Dublin- Cork and Dublin-Galway).

Ireland was the fourth-lowest in fares for a journey of 179 kilometres (the distance from Dublin to Waterford), behind Spain, Portugal and Italy, according to the research.

The study compared standard weekend return fares in Britain, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, France, Belgium, Finland, Ireland, Netherlands, Italy, Spain and Portugal.

Britain ranked as the most expensive country for inter-urban rail travel, with Germany, Sweden, Denmark and France next highest in price.

Iarnrod Éireann received exchequer funding of €220 million last year, on top of €168 million in subvention of unprofitable routes and €18 million for the railway safety programme.

The rail company last week increased fares by an average of 3 per cent, compared to British rail companies which were recently awarded a 9 per cent price increase.

An Iarnrod Éireann spokesman said: "These figures show we are extremely competitive in our pricing when compared with other European railways, particularly when one considers the economies of scale and heavy state support enjoyed by many of these networks."

Care to admit you are wrong again Metrobest ?

By the way the Swiss love the annual tickets a significant portion of the population own a country wide annual ticket.

When smart cards arrive on the rail network which is only months away this issue dies with it. There are tax benifits to having an annual ticket which are not available on other season tickets

SeanW

IEs ticketing policy is amazingly haphazard. It seems to be a "here's me head and me arse is coming" type of policy. I get the train to Dublin from Longford/Edgeworthstown now and then and, not long ago I saw an "its illegal to board the train without a ticket" sign at Longford station. But, when running late, I often buy the ticket from the conductor who carries a full load of ticket vending gear, and see others doing likewise. Mixed messages?

So which is it?

John R

SeanW wrote:

IEs ticketing policy is amazingly haphazard. It seems to be a "here's me head and me arse is coming" type of policy. I get the train to Dublin from Longford/Edgeworthstown now and then and, not long ago I saw an "its illegal to board the train without a ticket" sign at Longford station. But, when running late, I often buy the ticket from the conductor who carries a full load of ticket vending gear, and see others doing likewise. Mixed messages?

So which is it?

It is illegal to board without a ticket but the conductor is just not enforcing the policy, AFAIK the reason they have the ticket machines is because some of the smaller stations on the line do not always have ticket issuing facilities.

John R

MarkoP11 wrote:

All annual and monthly tickets must be accompanied by a ID card

The ID number is printed or written on the ticket, that said in 6 years of having a monthly ticket never had the id checked. Just having a id card was enough. The sight of annual ticket is enough to keep the checkers happy

Mag strip tickets can't be locked out, the ticketing system just can't cope, smart cards are a whole different game

Its tough luck if the ticket goes astray but thats life, if someone nicked my bike I wouldn't give out to the shop which sold it. I'm sure its in the T & C that IE are not responsible for lost or stolen tickets

IE have already changed the annual tickets to include a photo on the ticket.

http://www.irishrail.ie/your_ticket/annual_ticketing_system.asp


To be fair they are not just demanding money for the sake of it, it is in response to fraud of "stolen" annual tickets. If your ticket is damaged they will replace it for free.

miju

Trojan wrote:

raptor, I hope you've got yourself a solicitor and are appealing.

nah im not gonna bother, if the judge was anything to go by ill just be throwing money away paying for a solicitor

Victor

paperclip wrote:

it was my fault that i was robbed?

(Probably) not you fault, but it is your problem.

Metrobest

MarkoP11 wrote:

Crap Iarnrod Eireann are one of the cheapest, simplest ticketing systems on earth one price more or less,

Yes, one rip-off price! Especially Cork-Dublin tickets, which everyone knows are a disgrace for what you get from the service - journey times were faster ten years ago.

The price comparison you quoted is invalid because every other country has special discounts and regular travellers pay fares far lower than in Ireland. In Europe, only tourists pay standard rip-off fares, in Ireland everybody pays them! In the Netherlands you get 40% off with the discount card; France has the SCNF card, and in Germany there are a myriad of special deals: the 'happy weekend' ticket allows five people to travel anywhere in Germany for about €6 per person. That's what I call a deal!

SeanW

John R wrote:

It is illegal to board without a ticket but the conductor is just not enforcing the policy, AFAIK the reason they have the ticket machines is because some of the smaller stations on the line do not always have ticket issuing facilities.

It's not just "not enforcing" the policy but it seems to be that there are two seperate policies running side-by-side. At least on the Intercity anyways.

murphaph

Metrobest wrote:

Yes, one rip-off price! Especially Cork-Dublin tickets, which everyone knows are a disgrace for what you get from the service - journey times were faster ten years ago.

The price comparison you quoted is invalid because every other country has special discounts and regular travellers pay fares far lower than in Ireland. In Europe, only tourists pay standard rip-off fares, in Ireland everybody pays them! In the Netherlands you get 40% off with the discount card; France has the SCNF card, and in Germany there are a myriad of special deals: the 'happy weekend' ticket allows five people to travel anywhere in Germany for about €6 per person. That's what I call a deal!

The happy-weekend (sounds better in German, Schoenes Wochenende) ticket is great value alright but you have to stick to local & regional trains. You CANNOT use it for IC or ICE trains so a trip from Munich to Berlin will take multiple changes and will be sloooooow. Each of the Laender (states) have tickets too, the Bayern ticket is great value considering the size of the state. Most frequent travellers will have a Bahncard 50 (50% off list price) and some business users pay the 3 grand for the Bahncard100 (all journeys on DB covered and some city transit companies too).

I've seen Lidl selling DB tickets for IC and ICE though, something like 49- for a return anywhere in Germany, now that's good value for say Munich-Cologne, 4hrs on the ICE and this time will decrease as the high speed network expands.

I think the special fares IE had recently were amazing value, I went Dub-Cork return for 20 quid and it was a perfectly pleasant journey on clean, comfortable rolling stock.

miju

murphaph wrote:

I went Dub-Cork return for 20 quid and it was a perfectly pleasant journey on clean, comfortable rolling stock.

jaysis your lucky last time i went to cork i had to sit in the space between carriages and come to think of it was the same when i went to limerick and to clare as well.

the DART in Dublin during rush hour is a joke, jaysis animals have more rights when it comes to transport cant remember how many times ive had to wait on a platform with 30 other people all with a big pity me look on our faces while all the people stuffed on the train like sardines stare blankly back at you (altough you know in their heads their breakin their bollix laughing at you)

Enii

Raptor -Get free legal aid, go to your citizens advice centre.....

miju

didnt even think of that, dont mean to sound like a dick but i always thought that it was for people who couldnt afford solicitors, thanks enii

Gillo

What did the bank say when you asked them to replace the money that was in your wallet??

murphaph

gillo wrote:

What did the bank say when you asked them to replace the money that was in your wallet??

Jeez, give the guy a break. He was robbed. IE are only too happy to take 800 odd quid a year off you in one lump as it saves cash in transit costs for them. There are tax benefits for you but it cuts both ways. IE should just require a statement from the Guards showing that he's made a report and they should replace his ticket for an admin fee.

Zaph

I have nothing but sympathy for the OP, and I do think it's a ridiculous system, but I knew that I'd have to shell out for any unused part of a replacement annual ticket before I got mine. From the Irish Rail website:

Lost or Stolen Annual Tickets
Loss or theft of your Annual ticket should be reported to us as soon as possible by contacting the office from where you purchased the ticket. In addition, theft of your ticket should be reported to the Gardai. Iarnrod Eireann will normally only issue one replacement Annual ticket in any twelve-month period and you will be charged the following replacement fees.


DART/Suburban Rail
DART/Suburban & Bus
Replacement Charge - € 12.00 per month on the remaining months left.

Iarnrod Eireann Intercity Point-Point
Replacement Charge - € 12.00 - € 20.00 per month on the remaining months left (Depending on Fare Zone)

Iarnrod Eireann All Services
Replacement Charge - € 20.00 per month on the remaining months left


More details here

I believe that you can add annual tickets to your house insurance policy as a specified item. Keep meaning to check this out myself, but if anyone knows anything about this I'd appreciate the info.

Victor

zaph wrote:

I believe that you can add annual tickets to your house insurance policy as a specified item. Keep meaning to check this out myself, but if anyone knows anything about this I'd appreciate the info.

It would probably be iffy (a) it's likely to be stolen outside your home (still works with some policies) (b) there is usually an excess on your policy where you pay the first €100/€500/whatever of any claim.

But ask your insurer / broker.

therecklessone

zaph wrote:

I believe that you can add annual tickets to your house insurance policy as a specified item. Keep meaning to check this out myself, but if anyone knows anything about this I'd appreciate the info.

On a related topic...question for Papercilp:

How did you pay for the annual ticket? Was it by credit card, and if so, does your bank offer inurance on lost/stolen items purchased with said card? I know MBNA used to offer this, up to a year after purchase IIRC. Might be worth looking into.

penexpers

murphaph wrote:

Jeez, give the guy a break. He was robbed. IE are only too happy to take 800 odd quid a year off you in one lump as it saves cash in transit costs for them. There are tax benefits for you but it cuts both ways. IE should just require a statement from the Guards showing that he's made a report and they should replace his ticket for an admin fee.

The admin fee in this case is 84 euro, no?

murphaph

penexpers wrote:

The admin fee in this case is 84 euro, no?

Call a apade a spade, it's a penalty for losing/having your ticket stolen. An admin fee would be like €5. If the 84 quid was an admin fee then explain to me why the administration on replacing a ticket with 1 month left costs 12 times less than the administration on a brand new ticket that goes missing. It's like VRT being dependent on engine capacity, like it actually costs more to register a larger engined vehicle

Archytas

Interesting about the -"Have to have a ticket before you board the train"-crap. Its supposed to apply on the kildare line too. I'd like to see IE do me for that. The woman who works in the station leaves at 11am thats 12 more hours of no ticketing person. I'm just waiting for someone(IE) to say something to me...