Satnav in Ireland

a_ominous

Slightly off original Satnav topic, but for others in Dublin area, try South Dublin County Council address search Set up for searching for planning applications and uses an OSI vector overlay on top of satellite photos.

prospect

MercMad wrote:

I paid €155 for the Ipaq (brand new) and €45 for the Reciever !

Cheers, now, do you mind me asking, how exactly that works?
If you drive from dublin to cork, do you have to pay for a 3.5 hour call while it monitors you, or how does it bill you, or monitor your location?

AlanD

Lots of good feedback there. Thanks lads.

So I think it would be worth looking in to factory fitted sat nav cars in the UK. The way I see it, if I'm going to go to all the effort to go over and buy a car and bring it home, I may aswell get the best value for money possible.

So I presume if I brought in a 2001/2 C270 cdi or an S60 D5 with satnav, I'd need to buy the 2005 disc to bring it up to date?

MercMad

Yes you would need the 2005 disc but be careful with the Merc as the C-Class systems changed considerably in 2004. I know the discs are not interchgangeable so unless they have a 2005 disc specifically for your 2001 car it wont work. I'm sure they would have this though !

Also dont forget that our friends in the VRT office will know from your cars data plate that it came equipped with Sat Nav and they will charge you a portion of the VRT for any extras. BTW the list price for "Command" on a new CLK Merc is €4,900 ! ! ! It IS possible to retro fit succesfully for a fraction of that say €2000 !

Cheers, now, do you mind me asking, how exactly that works?
If you drive from dublin to cork, do you have to pay for a 3.5 hour call while it monitors you, or how does it bill you, or monitor your location?

You dont get billed ! You buy the unit, buy the software and the GPS receiver keeps you in touch with the satellites

prospect

MercMad wrote:

You dont get billed ! You buy the unit, buy the software and the GPS receiver keeps you in touch with the satellites

Nice one,
I always assumed there was running costs, and therefore never looked into it seriously.
Cheers

AlanD

MercMad wrote:

Yes you would need the 2005 disc but be careful with the Merc as the C-Class systems changed considerably in 2004. I know the discs are not interchgangeable so unless they have a 2005 disc specifically for your 2001 car it wont work. I'm sure they would have this though !

Also dont forget that our friends in the VRT office will know from your cars data plate that it came equipped with Sat Nav and they will charge you a portion of the VRT for any extras. BTW the list price for "Command" on a new CLK Merc is €4,900 ! ! ! It IS possible to retro fit succesfully for a fraction of that say €2000 !

I hadn't thought of it that way. I've been using the VRT calculator to work out the VRT due on whatever cars I looked up in the UK. So that obviously doesn't include VRT on added spec. But since the car is secondhand would it matter to them and would they fleece me with some extra VRT in which case it'd be a waste to go looking for a satnav equipped car. I'd rather stick with the standard specc'd car from the UK which is still better than here.

MercMad

But since the car is secondhand would it matter to them and would they fleece me with some extra VRT

..........ehh its the Revenue Commisioners we are talking about here.......have a guess !


You be better to buy the car AND the unit seprately, then have it fitted when you get here !

AlanD

I just noticed on the VRT Enquire website that if there are taxable accessories fitted to your car, they will recalculate the VRT or something to that effect.

Looks like it's not the cheap way in to the satnav market at all. I didn't really want it since my map reading skills are good enough, but if it could be got for cheap enough I'd get it.

It's good to know too that Irish roads are on the more recent systems.

I'd say I'll still get a good cheap UK car though. The S60 D5 is the current front runner.

blastman

Not had much experience of SatNav in Ireland, but when I was in Oz at Christmas I had the use of a relations ute and his Navman GPS PocketPC. I have to say for driving around Sydney it was brilliant.

Would like to buy one of those Dell Axims with the GPS unit, is the guy you bought from a regular seller, MercMad?

unkel

kevmac wrote:

Yep that address is there; you're at the back of the estate and the road is numbered 1-20

Correct! I think it is pretty safe to conclude that satnav in Ireland has come a long way very recently

@MercMad, what is the make / model of the receiver you bought?

prospect

MercMad wrote:

Which is best/cheapest etc.. ?

Sorry to deviate from the OP, but which is best/cheapest software?
I might follow suit with MercMad and buy a handheld PC and a reciever, so that leaves the software.

crang

brother has sat nav in his car. Works like a charm

unkel

kermit_ie just pm'd me with another positive result from his Garmin

Thanks guys, you've converted this non-believer

MercMad

I originally wanted to buy a dedicated unit like a NavMan ICN or Mitac Mio but having looked everywhere I could both on-line and off I couldn't get one cheap enough

I decided a PDA with the relevant bits was the way to go and I spotted a deal in Harvey Normans, a kit which included Palm 31, software and GPS reciever for about Euro 430, I had a go with it as a demonstartion and it worked well. that convinced me that even the cheaper PDA's can be used with fairly good results !

Next stop.............eBay !

I have bought tons of stuff from eBay over the last few years, car parts, TV equipment, cameras you name it with zero bad experiences.....and all cheap !

I surfed around and watched for about a month before buying a basic Ipaq RZ1710. Obviously the quicker the processor and the more memory the better but this works well with an extra memory card. I didn't need email capability but I may go down that road again ( no pun intended )

Anyway just scan the sections for PDA's and watch the regular sellers with high numbers of sales and very high feedback scores (over 98%).

I asked earlier about the software and it seems the Co-Pilot 5 or Tom Tom 3 is the best but there are some identical items with less well known brand names on there so I bought a package for stg£20 from a user called "fab090".

The Reciever, again I surfed and watched the regular moving items and bought from a regular seller, can remember the name but I think the reciever is a Sirf 3 or Jornado or something, I paid stg£38 for it.

So all in all I'm at about €240 for the lot !

kevmac

Excellent article from last year that I forgot about.

I have included the second piece on Navteq mapping Ireland .


http://pocketgpsworld.com/navteq1.php
http://pocketgpsworld.com/navteq2.php
http://pocketgpsworld.com/navteq3.php

Mapping Ireland - A Challenge
NAVTEQ commenced work on mapping Ireland in 2000 and is well on it's way to completing full map coverage of Ireland in 2005.

The Republic presented its own unique set of challenges with historical roots. An economy built on agriculture (before the mid 1800's) meant each county was, for tax purposes, divided into thousands of 'townlands' each comprising of a few farms. That structure remains the basis for today's official postal destination hierarchy.

For a total population of around four million, there are over 50,000 defined 'localities' – each of which needs to be available as a destination. Compare this to the UK where the Royal Mail defines only 25,000 localities for over 54 million people! Consequently, a huge destination hierarchy is needed for the relative size of the population.

In addition, in there are no postal codes outside Dublin and rural road signs are notoriously very poor!

The first step is finding the right source material so a destination hierarchy can be built into the database – country, county, post town, locality – before mapping even begins. The next decision is whether or not the road network can be based on existing digital mapping (perhaps from a Government agency) or whether it has to be digitised from scratch - using either paper maps or aerial photography.

For the major built up areas in Ireland, NAVTEQ chose to commission orthorectified aerial photography from BKS in Coleraine. The geometry captured from this photography forms the basis of the map and incorporates the centre lines of roads, rivers and railways; and also the outlines of land use features.



In more sparsely populated areas, teams of field staff survey the roads using a differential GPS receiver mounted on the roof of a car. This creates a trace of the road centre line. The use of DGPS also allows the database to be updated rapidly - often within days of new roads opening to traffic.

Name and address sources are then added. In the Republic of Ireland An Post and Ordnance Survey Ireland have recently completed the development of GeoDirectory – a complete database of all 1.5 million addressable commercial and residential buildings in Ireland . It locates the centre point of each building to within one metre and includes accurate, standardised postal addresses.

By merging the GeoDirectory data with the road centre lines established by the field teams, road names and address ranges can be added to the road network. Ultimately, this means destinations can be accurately selected by both street name and house number. Finally, the navigable attributes are added to the map.

Back in the office, the laptop is simply plugged in and linked to the main database ready for the new information to be coded and sent back to the mainframe. The data is interpolated using, for the Republic, GeoDirectory to add street names and address ranges to all the new links. It also provides the correct address structure for each link – i.e. the locality, the town/city and the county.

Ireland map coverage as of July 2004


Republic of Ireland
Northern Ireland
Length of road
25,111 km
10,257 km
Area in square kilometres (detailed coverage*)
2,708 sq km
1,430 sq km
Area in square kilometres (intertown coverage*)
68,604 sq km
12,710 sq km
No. of people – (detailed coverage*)
1,250,000
750,000
No. of people (intertown coverage*)
2,750,000
850,000
Cities, towns and villages
998
326
Points of interest
3,831
1,379
Detailed coverage:
Includes details down to house number ranges – meaning drivers can literally receive turn-by-turn instructions from door to door. Every named road, any unnamed roads with public access, pedestrian zones, and any named walkway containing buildings are all included.
Turn lanes, roundabouts and slip roads etc are also added to ensure optimal accuracy when you are on the move. A broad range of off-road features - such as administrative boundaries, rivers, railways, built-up areas, parks and golf courses - all help the driver's orientation.
Even without an address, Points of Interest – such as theatres, restaurants, hotels and tourist attractions - can be selected by name. Using navigation systems, drivers can, for example, ask to be routed to the nearest casualty department or even the nearest petrol station. In rural areas where there are no street names, a village name can be selected.
Intertown coverage:
The areas with detailed coverage will be seamlessly connected by the intertown coverage. This includes defined categories of road which vary from country to country. In the Republic of Ireland , the database will have every Motorway, National road and Regional road. In Northern Ireland every Motorway, A road and B road will be included .
All are mapped to the same high level of accuracy as the detailed coverage areas – taking drivers to 1,152 towns and villages throughout the Republic and Northern Ireland . Most of the off-road features are also included.

Furp

I remember seeing a car with a GPS aerial on the roof and a guy with a laptop and microphone in the passenger seat recently in Navan I was wondering what they where doing they must have been mapping the town for satelite navigation.

I know at the moent on even the ordance survey maps my housing estate is not even shown, id be interested in getting gps system myself.

Alun

Furp wrote:

I remember seeing a car with a GPS aerial on the roof and a gut with a laptop and microphone in the passenger seat recently in Navan I was wondering what they where doing they must have been mapping the town for satelite navigation.

I know on even the ordance survey maps my house is not even shown, id be interested in getting gps system myself.

Saw one myself in the estate in Greystones where i was living a year or so back. A VW Golf with a GPS antenna on the roof with a driver and a passenger with a laptop and headset. I didn't know what they were doing at first, and they looked a bit suspicious driving around quite slowly and looking around, so I went out and asked what they were doing.

AlanD

For those of you that use Palm or Pcket PC based systems then, how have you it integrated in to your car. Why i'd prefer a built in system over the mobile system is down to aesthetics. If there's going to be wires everywhere, I wouldn't like it, but maybe there's nice tidy blue tooth based solutions with nice holders that look part ofthe car.

The 500/600 euro I'd pay in VRT to bring in a car with satnav would get me a version I could use well after I sell the car I buy.

kevmac

Pocket PC 4150 with Brodit dedicated clip for Subaru Forester taking GPS signal from Co-Pilot 5 Bluetooth receiver which sits in the sun roof.

Ernie Ball

Anyone use any of the new Tom Tom units? They have the virtues of being self-contained and using the NavTeq maps.

prospect

Can the TOM TOM software be upgraded?

I am seriously considering getting a system as a result of this thread.

Ernie Ball

prospect wrote:

Can the TOM TOM software be upgraded?

Not sure about the software, but the maps can. They come on SD cards.

comanche

just had a quick look at the TomTom website and it doesn't look like they support ireland yet!

http://www.tomtom.com/products/section.php?ID=0&Section=0&Language=1

and it look like you just buy the software off navteq?

Alun

TomTom uses TeleAtlas data, and the only place you can get maps for TomTom is TomTom themselves. Navteq have nothing to do with this.

Ernie Ball

Alun wrote:

TomTom uses TeleAtlas data, and the only place you can get maps for TomTom is TomTom themselves. Navteq have nothing to do with this.

This review says that the maps are Navteq maps. But, judging from the Tom Tom site, I guess they don't have maps for Ireland, so they're not good here anyway.

Alun

Ernie Ball wrote:

This review says that the maps are Navteq maps. But, judging from the Tom Tom site, I guess they don't have maps for Ireland, so they're not good here anyway.

Well they're wrong then See this screenshot from the review on Pocket GPS World

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/reviews/tomtomgo/info.jpg

Or this from the TomTom website

http://www.tomtom.com/products/section.php?ID=74&Section=91&Language=1

kevmac

This is the coverage that TeleAtlas has of Ireland and I don't think that they have updated since this PDF was released

http://www.navman-europe.com/pdf/ireland_multinet_productsheets.pdf

Where as this is the latest I can find for NavTeq

http://www.navteq-connections.com/servlet/GetFile/Product_portfolio_Q4_04_GB.pdf?id=1463

Ernie Ball

Any standalone (non-PDA units) use the NavTeq maps?

kevmac

I had one of the Navman 600 series but after the first generation they switched from NavTeq to TeleAtlas basically because TeleAtlas maps are cheaper to buy.

I ditched the excellent iCN 610 becuase the new maps were woeful for Ireland and then bought CoPilot 5.

AlanD

co Pilot seems to be the way to go. That and a good Pocket PC which you can use for getting yourself organised as well and you'll never get lost again..