'Dingle' has no place in Gaeltacht - O Cuiv

ishmael whale

There a great need for honesty in Irish political debate. In that spirit, I want to make it perfectly clear that my main motivation in posting this article is the malicious delight I take in native Irish speakers objecting O’Cuiv’s Orwellian approach to language revival. Doubleplusungood, if you ask me.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1400366&issue_id=12509
'Dingle' has no place in Gaeltacht - O Cuiv

A GOVERNMENT minister has ruled out allowing the name Dingle in the Kerry Gaeltacht on maps or road signs - insisting the Irish version, 'An Daingean', should be used. If locals were unhappy with that they could leave the Gaeltacht, suggested Eamon O Cuiv, Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.

Local representatives want a derogation for the anglicised version, to allow it on signposts and maps outside the Gaeltacht. They argue 'Dingle' is an international brand, recognised by tourists.

Since Easter Monday, when the Placenames (Ceantair Gaeltachta) Order 2004 came in, the name Dingle no longer existed, the minister said on Wednesday. People could not insist on retaining 'Dingle' on signposts outside the Gaeltacht. 'Daingean' meant 'a fort' while 'Dingle' meant nothing, he asserted. A possible solution was to legislate to take An Daingean out of the Gaeltacht.

A motion had been passed at Kerry County Council earlier this week seeking information on whether 'Dingle' could remain on signposts outside the Gaeltacht.

Fine Gael Councillor Seamus Cosai Fitzgerald, a native Irish speaker, said 'Dingle' was a recognised brand name the world over. Most people on the peninsula, while they supported the Irish language, wanted 'Dingle' to remain on signposts outside the area, he said.

The question of Gaeltacht boundaries was a separate issue and should not be used as a threat. Mr Fitzgerald is to initiate public consultation to ascertain whether locals wish to keep 'Dingle'.

egan007

ishmael whale wrote:

They argue 'Dingle' is an international brand, recognised by tourists.

Theres your problem right there.....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

toiletduck

i read about this a few weeks ago. it would majorly confuse tourists. why cant they just leave it as 'Dingle' ffs?

Calina

I don't believe that matters involving local signposts and placenames should exclusively be the remit of a Minister. Local people surely have an input?

Sparks

Forget tourists, I'm from Tralee and wouldn't know what the hell you meant if you asked me where 'An Daingean' was...

The Corinthian

I was in a pub in Cahirciveen a year ago and found the atmosphere very authentic as the locals chatted to each other up at the bar. Of course they weren’t actually speaking Irish. Or English. They were speaking German.

I think we should have German signposts in Kerry...

egan007

Someone should remind the minister that there are no sign posts of any use in kerry anyway....

toiletduck

The Corinthian wrote:

I think we should have German signposts in Kerry...

if it wasnt for america, all signposts would be in german!

uberwolf

toiletduck wrote:

if it wasnt for america, all signposts would be in german!

Actually it would be the russians you'd have to thank for that.

Ishmael - you have it on the head here. But there should be room, the entire nation should reanalyse signposting - the speed change demonstrated that the resources exist to alter these things.

Signs on corners. FFS - only country in the world. Suits me on the bike though

egan007

I think this minsiter should stick to the kebabs

.....i could be in the dail....

uberwolf

On Topic Please.

egan007

uberwolf wrote:

On Topic Please.

If i were a politician i could argue that this is on topic as the socio economic factors that propell such an investment is clearly an attempt to cause confusion in a political year - further more the blatent lack of useful content in the arguement is a smoke screen designed to derail the process.

but im not

Zombrex

someone want to explain why sign post in Kerry don't have the English/Irish style that sign post in the rest of the country have?? Why is it an either or situtation? If it is that important fo the Gaeltacht they can have the Irish in big letters and the English in smaller letter, the reverse of how it is in the rest of the country.

I swear the whole attitude to Irish in this fecking country really pisses me off ... it is like we have to beat and force people to use it and then we are surprised when they choose not to. Since when has ramming a language down peoples throats ever got them to love it?

I can see what o'cuiv is in theory trying to do, ie it's supposed to be a Gaeltacht, but it's ffs a step too far.

Maybe GPS devices in cars for tourists should be obligatory now and paid for by O'Cuiv's dept...

simu

Dingle shouldn't be in the Gaeltacht because most people there don't speak Irish. In fact all the Gaeltacht boundaries need to be redrawn as they're all much bigger than they should be at the moment. I remember travelling from west Kerry to Cork city during the last Údarás na Gaeltachta elections and passing through two Gaeltacht areas en route - ridiculously vast swathes of countryside where Irish hasn't been spoken in decades if not since the nineteenth century were covered in election posters. What a farce!

ReefBreak

Typical daftness from the Gaelic Gestapo. It's almost up there with the campaign to make Irish an Official Working Language in it silliness.

uberwolf

simu wrote:

Dingle shouldn't be in the Gaeltacht because most people there don't speak Irish. In fact all the Gaeltacht boundaries need to be redrawn as they're all much bigger than they should be at the moment. I remember travelling from west Kerry to Cork city during the last Údarás na Gaeltachta elections and passing through two Gaeltacht areas en route - ridiculously vast swathes of countryside where Irish hasn't been spoken in decades if not since the nineteenth century were covered in election posters. What a farce!

the breac Gaeltachts - existing only in name for the subsidies

bonkey

Wicknight wrote:

someone want to explain why sign post in Kerry don't have the English/Irish style that sign post in the rest of the country have?? Why is it an either or situtation?

Because of the Order mentioned in the original article which came into law.

The Order declares the official Irish language version of placenames in Gaeltacht areas. In accordance with the provisions of section 33(1) of the Official Languages Act 2003, the English language version of these placenames ceases to have any force and effect as on and from 28 March 2005.

I'm undecided as to whether or not the Minister was actually taking a dig at how stupid and ill-conceived this Order actually was.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was opposed to it initially, and this is a bit of "told you so"-ness.

Its typical short-sightedness all round, and it shows just how little public opinion in the effected areas was either sought, offered, considered by the public, listened to, or any combination of same.

SkepticOne

toiletduck wrote:

if it wasnt for america, all signposts would be in german!

What's the German for Dingle? An Daingan means 'the fort'. I couldn't find the German for Fort in the online translation engines, but the German for castle is Schloß. The Dingle Peninsula would then be Schloß-Halbinsel. Perhaps someone with some language knowledge could oblige.

Victor

bonkey wrote:

I'm undecided as to whether or not the Minister was actually taking a dig at how stupid and ill-conceived this Order actually was.

But it is the ministers act and the ministers order. It is more about the half-heartedness of the Gaeltacht residents saying "we want it both ways" (snigger)

What's the German for Dingle? An Daingan means 'the fort'. I couldn't find the German for Fort in the online translation engines, but the German for castle is Schloß. The Dingle Peninsula would then be Schloß-Halbinsel. Perhaps someone with some language knowledge could oblige.

I think "Burg" would be more appropriate, but it is usually used as a suffix.

bonkey

Burg is far from a suffix. Burger, Burgmeister...

Lager would be another choice. Although its more of the "military camp" variety, I think it would be great to have a town called Lager

jc

SkepticOne

bonkey wrote:

Burg is far from a suffix. Burger, Burgmeister...

Lager would be another choice. Although its more of the "military camp" variety, I think it would be great to have a town called Lager

Guinness and Murphy's would protest strongly against this. It would probably end up in court.

Getting back on topic, I'm sure some compromise will be reached where the Kerry Gaeltacht continues getting tax-payers money while retaining the name Dingle. Perhaps Dingle could be declared an Irish word - an alternative to An Daingan - both permissible for Irish speakers.

All languages have words borrowed from other languages. All that is necessary is that a speaker of a language should be understood by another speaker of that language. The french use words like 'le weekend' without difficulty.

fearcruach

If we just printed maps with the Irish names on it then everyone would be happy. I live in a Donegal Gaeltacht and the signs don't seem to bother people very much.

Victor

bonkey wrote:

Burg is far from a suffix. Burger, Burgmeister...

Sorry, I meant in place names - Strasburg, Brandenburg ....

Lager would be another choice. Although its more of the "military camp" variety, I think it would be great to have a town called Lager

It's from the Dutch laager - a circling of the wagons.

Andrew 83

I generally support the changing of place names into Irish - I don't want Dun Laoghaire to convert back to Kingstown for instance and I'm sure at the time of that change there may have been similar opposition.

I think until the time when all maps have had chance to change so that any a tourist might have are in date Dingle can be dropped but perhaps for now signs should have Dingle in small letters on them too. Same goes for any other major tourist town.

Victor

Andrew 83 wrote:

Dun Laoghaire

Dún Laoghaire?

Andrew 83

Victor wrote:

Dún Laoghaire?

Sorry I was too lazy to bother with the fada, gabh mo leithscéal

longie

got a great pic of a newly erected hollywood sign in Dingle!

Thomond Pk

There are less bungalows on the hills around Hollywood

linux

Sparks wrote:

Forget tourists, I'm from Tralee and wouldn't know what the hell you meant if you asked me where 'An Daingean' was...

Well you know now don't ye?

linux

simu wrote:

Dingle shouldn't be in the Gaeltacht because most people there don't speak Irish. In fact all the Gaeltacht boundaries need to be redrawn as they're all much bigger than they should be at the moment. I remember travelling from west Kerry to Cork city during the last Údarás na Gaeltachta elections and passing through two Gaeltacht areas en route - ridiculously vast swathes of countryside where Irish hasn't been spoken in decades if not since the nineteenth century were covered in election posters. What a farce!

Any actual facts and figures links etc. to back this up?