Southside DART closure

Victor

Davey Devil wrote:

I have to work on Sundays in Glasthule, I'm from Bray. I can't get there anymore. The first 45A from Bray to Dun Laoghaire isn't until 11am. It's a fùcking joke.

#84 leaves Bray Dart Station at 8:30. The #45 leaves the terminus (Old Court?) also at 8:30, 9:10 (from Esplanade via Oldcourt) or 1030.

Then change to a #7 (first one at 7:50).

Metrobest

BrianD wrote:

When you look at the cost and time over runs on the RPA these are simply off the radar when compared proportionately with the Dart upgrade. The RPA should never be allowed near a project again!
.

If the RPA had made the same mistakes as IE with Dart upgrade you'd have been wheeling out their chief executive for the guillotine. Yet, bizzarely, you defend Irish Rail's incompetence. IE have not learnt how to manage a project efficiently; what they have learnt is to build in a huge amount of financial "wriggle room" into their cost estimates so that the mess ups and overruns don't glare so obviously in the media. You also need to understand the dynamics of what went wrong with the luas before you start flinging around wild accusations. It was all political.

murphaph

Metrobest wrote:

You also need to understand the dynamics of what went wrong with the luas before you start flinging around wild accusations. It was all political.

Was ordering 30m trams for Line A political? Nope. The Really Pointless Agency were all reponsible for that one.

Bill McH

Does the extra bus service which has been added on to replace the southside DART at weekends run between Bray and the part of the rail network which is operating, i.e., Connolly Station, or does it just go straight to Burgh Quay?

MarkoP11

The buses follow there normal routes

The no 7 terminates in Parnel Square
The no 145 terminates Mountjoy Square
The Dalkey Shuttle (aka the 8), 45 and 84 all continue to use Burgh Quay

KC61

Bill McH wrote:

Does the extra bus service which has been added on to replace the southside DART at weekends run between Bray and the part of the rail network which is operating, i.e., Connolly Station, or does it just go straight to Burgh Quay?

There is an hourly shuttle service operating from Dalkey (old route 8 terminus) to Burgh Quay. It does not operate to Connolly.

However the main focus of extra buses is on the existing routes, with routes 7, 45, 45A, 46A, 59, 84, 145 all gaining additional services, route 145 being increased to a bus every 15 minutes on both Saturday and Sunday (a significant increase!).

These extra services are not shown in the public timetable, but from what I saw at the weekend Dublin Bus are being true to their word with plenty of extra buses on the roads from both Harristown and Donnybrook on the above routes on both days.

Bill McH

Thanks to MarkoP11 and Trainuser for that information.

The reason why I was asking is because, when the northside DART was closed, buses were running at weekends between Portmarnock and Tara Street (closed), rather than from Portmarnock and Pearse (open at weekends) which would seem to have made more sense.

The same mistake seems to have been made this time. Surely the idea should be to run some sort of bus service which minimises the disruption to people who do wish to travel between the northside DART and the stations which are closed at weekends, i.e., by running a bus which goes to/from Connolly Station.

I mean its probably the guts of 10 minutes walk from the DART platform at Connolly to Burgh Quay.

KC61

Davey Devil wrote:

I have to work on Sundays in Glasthule, I'm from Bray. I can't get there anymore. The first 45A from Bray to Dun Laoghaire isn't until 11am. It's a ****ing joke.

Victor is correct in his suggestion above to take the route 45 to Blackrock (Temple Hill), cross over and then take a 7 to Dun Laoghaire. The first 45 (0830 ex-Bray Esplanade) should connect into the 0855 route 7 ex-City reasonably well and the 0910 ex-Bray Esplanade via Oldcourt should connect with the 0925/0940 route 7 departures from O'Connell Street. Alternatively, you could leave the 45 at Wyattville interchange, there might be a route 7 ex-Cherrywood (0850,0920,0955). I suspect that the Blackrock option might be best.

The first timetabled 45A northbound on Sundays is not until 1100, but the extra buses that are operating (which are not timetabled) may start earlier.

Call Dublin Bus Donnybrook Garage at 01 703 4420 to find out.

All is not lost!

KC61

Bill McH wrote:

Thanks to MarkoP11 and Trainuser for that information.

The reason why I was asking is because, when the northside DART was closed, buses were running at weekends between Portmarnock and Tara Street (closed), rather than from Portmarnock and Pearse (open at weekends) which would seem to have made more sense.

The same mistake seems to have been made this time. Surely the idea should be to run some sort of bus service which minimises the disruption to people who do wish to travel between the northside DART and the stations which are closed at weekends, i.e., by running a bus which goes to/from Connolly Station.

I mean its probably the guts of 10 minutes walk from the DART platform at Connolly to Burgh Quay.

It's not so much a "mistake", but you have to take into account where buses can park, wait and turn to get back in the opposite direction. Also running time is a pre-requisite.

Are most people travelling to connect with the DART northbound or going to the city - I would suggest the latter is the principal objective.

As for walking time from DART to bus, I'd say 15 minutes walk is closer to the mark - but the other "regular" routes (7/45/145 etc.) would be best unless you specifically need to go to Dalkey. They all stop in O'Connell Street.

BrianD

Metrobest wrote:

If the RPA had made the same mistakes as IE with Dart upgrade you'd have been wheeling out their chief executive for the guillotine. Yet, bizzarely, you defend Irish Rail's incompetence. IE have not learnt how to manage a project efficiently; what they have learnt is to build in a huge amount of financial "wriggle room" into their cost estimates so that the mess ups and overruns don't glare so obviously in the media. You also need to understand the dynamics of what went wrong with the luas before you start flinging around wild accusations. It was all political.

The only problem is, Metrobest, is that IE haven't made any significant mistakes with the upgrade project. There is no incompetence though arguably the planning process could have started earlier.

D'Peoples Voice

BrianD wrote:

The only problem is, Metrobest, is that IE haven't made any significant mistakes with the upgrade project. There is no incompetence though arguably the planning process could have started earlier.

Quite unfair to compare both projects!
Just how many utility companies/services did IE have to deal with in their project?
Comparing Connex Versus IE is a much fairer comparison.

I was informed that IE last year offered return train fares of EURO 10 to travel between Heuston to any other train station in Ireland, during the hours of 10 and 4(I'm guessing, can't rememebr the hours exactly), and during the days Monday and Friday.
This was great not because it lead to increased people on otherwise half empty trains,
but it discriminated against people who wanted to travel from Kent station in cork to heuston station return.
They had to pay full price! cool
So to go Heuston Station - Kent station,cork and back - EURO10
but to go Kent station, cork - Heuston station and back - EURO60 approx

Metrobest

murphaph wrote:

Was ordering 30m trams for Line A political? Nope. The Really Pointless Agency were all reponsible for that one.

The RPA weren't responsible for the political decision to run a tram line through ill-judged terrain with narrow streets and complex junctions. The Green line can accomodate longer trams because it has a comparatively straightforward trajectory along the alignment of an old railway line.

There's no point blaming them for the incompetence of others. And there's no point making excuses about IE's incompetence. No matter how much lamb you try to dress up the issue with, people are able to see the mutton.

maxheadroom

Metrobest wrote:

The RPA weren't responsible for the political decision to run a tram line through ill-judged terrain with narrow streets and complex junctions. The Green line can accomodate longer trams because it has a comparatively straightforward trajectory along the alignment of an old railway line.

Have you seen the proposed extension, which the 40m trams will have to traverse? It doesn't matter anyway, because what you've stated above is complete nonsense - there's no difference in the turning radius required for a 40m vs a 30m tram, because of how the trams are articulated. Why build the platforms on the red line to accomodate 40m trams if there was never any chance of them being used, anyway?

murphaph

Metrobest wrote:

The RPA weren't responsible for the political decision to run a tram line through ill-judged terrain with narrow streets and complex junctions. The Green line can accomodate longer trams because it has a comparatively straightforward trajectory along the alignment of an old railway line.

There's no point blaming them for the incompetence of others. And there's no point making excuses about IE's incompetence. No matter how much lamb you try to dress up the issue with, people are able to see the mutton.

I will revive this thread when the RPA order the 10m sections for Line A and see how you try to wriggle out of it. It will happen. The line is technically capable of taking 40m trams. The RPA fcuked up big time on it, deal with it.

IE have many faults as I have repeated ad-nauseum here and elsewhere. They are not incompetent in their engineering abilities though.

The last few years have been spent in the main on just making the network safe. These improvements are invisible to the average joe so I'm not surprised you've noticed little improvement in IE. There have of course been large rolling stock investments lately and a lot is coming on stream now but just wait for the really big orders to begin delivey. On the hour every hour Cork-Dublin on brand new carriages. Lovely stuff. IE will actually have the most modern railway fleet in Europe when all the orders are delivered.

Personally I can't wait for DART to Maynooth.

Victor

Back on topic.

BrianD

Metrobest wrote:

The RPA weren't responsible for the political decision to run a tram line through ill-judged terrain with narrow streets and complex junctions. The Green line can accomodate longer trams because it has a comparatively straightforward trajectory along the alignment of an old railway line.

There's no point blaming them for the incompetence of others. And there's no point making excuses about IE's incompetence. No matter how much lamb you try to dress up the issue with, people are able to see the mutton.

No Metro it was the RPA who designed and built the line and in my view they displayed a high level of incompetence, unable to keep to the budget and poor project management. The only significant political interference was the decision not to proceed in joining the Green and Red lines.

Victor

BrianD - 1 day ban

SeanW

BrianD wrote:

No Metro it was the RPA who designed and built the line and in my view they displayed a high level of incompetence, unable to keep to the budget and poor project management. The only significant political interference was the decision not to proceed in joining the Green and Red lines.

I have to agree with BrianD, the construction of the Luas wasn't great.

When in Dublin City flogging the Dublin Rail Plan (to anyone who would listen ) I was talking to a retired gentleman who had been watching the Luas construction, and he said he'd seen construction people on the sites who had absolutely no interest in it and that there were long periods of inactivity during construction.