Bus overturned in Kentstown (Navan)

SeanW

When I was in secondary school about 5 years ago, the school buses were absolutely ancient. They belonged in a museum.

Obviously with a 1993 bus it wasnt a case of high bus age. We can estimate that the bus swerved to avoid an existing accident, but must wait for the investigation to produce a conclusive report.

Obviously my heart goes out to all those affected by this awful tragendy.

hawkmoon269

Victor wrote:

First you say:
Then you say:Bus travel is an order of scale safer than car travel.

http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/d1736.PDF

Sorry Victor, those stats prove precisely nothing.

In order to prove which is more dangerous, between car and bus travel, one would have to do a much more detailed analysis, taking into account relative numbers who use buses compared to numbers who use cars. Of course, the number who travel by car is much higher, so one would expect casualty rates to be higher. Incidentally, I wouldn't be surprised if quite a number of those pedestrians were killed by buses! There was recently a news report about Ireland having one of the highest rates of pedestrian deaths by bus/HGV in the world. This factor would have to be taken into account in deciding how safe (or otherwise) buses are compared with cars.

Anyway, my fundamental point is that road transport is inherently dangerous.

As regards which is more dangerous between bus and car, well I admit I can't PROVE buses are more dangerous, but I know which I feel safer in (provided that I am either driving myself, or I trust the driver).

But ideally, I'd much rather travel by rail than either bus or car!

Libero

cdebru wrote:

yeah the issue of seatbelts is important but you cannot reasonably attack the operator for operating within the regulations
If seatbelts are a vital safety device required on buses and coaches why does the law not state that.
blaming Bus Eireann for this is nonsensical but of course there are those that just love to give the semi state a lash

unfortunately in Ireland it usually takes some people to be killed before action is taken
I remember listening to Joe duffy about a year ago talking about the state of school buses but in Ireland we have made some choices we wanted lower taxes and with that comes ****ty public services until people change and realise that we cannot have proper public services without spending money on them we are doomed to repeat our mistakes over and over again

There may indeed be those who love to give the semi states "a lash". There are others who will make excuses for them no matter what they get up to.

I remember that Joe Duffy programme too, with its tales (IIRC) of children falling out the safety window at the back of a moving bus.

However the fact that any company (public or private) operates on a fixed budget does not excuse any decision not to invest in safety measures - in this case, seatbelts.

While we can fling around rhetoric about not paying enough taxes, it isn't as though CIE is running a post-subsidy loss. They always had a few million to spend on retro-fitting seatbelts but for whatever reason failed to do so. Their annual accounts will confirm this.

So while we should not throw around blame too easily, I think we should also avoid defending the indefensible. In the days to come there will be much talk of the government not providing enough funding to CIE. Upon hearing this we should ask what guarantee was there that CIE would have spent it on safety measures?

John R

Libero wrote:

I remember that Joe Duffy programme too, with its tales (IIRC) of children falling out the safety window at the back of a moving bus.

I remember hearing about that and at the time wondering exactly how a person could passively fall out of an emergency exit without having been somewhere they shouldn't have been in the first place.

Libero wrote:

While we can fling around rhetoric about not paying enough taxes, it isn't as though CIE is running a post-subsidy loss. They always had a few million to spend on retro-fitting seatbelts but for whatever reason failed to do so. Their annual accounts will confirm this.

They failed to do so because it wasn't an option.

In most cases buses built without seatbelts cannot be retro-fitted with them as the seats and seat fixing points are not strong enough.

The school bus services are seperately financed to the rest of Bus Eireann services so any profits made in other areas are not relevant.

In recent years all the investment in the schools fleet has been put towards replacement of ageing life-expired buses.

The cost of replacing 3000 buses with new or nearly new vehicles all fitted with seatbelts would be astronomical, the best part of €1 Billion by my rough estimate.

Zaph0d

At a terrible time like this, it's completely understandable for people to think with their hearts rather than their heads. Yet whatever strategy we adopt should result in the lowest number of people dying in future.

hawkmoon269 wrote:

In order to prove which is more dangerous, between car and bus travel, one would have to do a much more detailed analysis, taking into account relative numbers who use buses compared to numbers who use cars. Of course, the number who travel by car is much higher, so one would expect casualty rates to be higher.

You are correct, a comparison requires an analysis of fatalities per billion passenger kilometres travelled, so that one can say what is the relative risk of carrying out a 10km journey by car or by bus. As it turns out it is seven times more dangerous to travel this journey by car than bus. Risk assessment is a basic element of natural selection so if you are having difficulty differentiating risk, maybe you should be looking into life assurance.

hawkmoon269 wrote:

As regards which is more dangerous between bus and car, well I admit I can't PROVE buses are more dangerous, but I know which I feel safer in (provided that I am either driving myself, or I trust the driver)

Let's look at the UK statistics:

The fatality rates for bus and coach and for rail passengers have been similar over the last 10 years. The average fatality rate for this period has been around 0.4 for both modes.

[the passenger car fatality rate]has remained some seven times the fatality rate for rail and for bus and coach passengers during the last 10 years.

And if you look at data for Ireland, we have below EU average accident statistics for bus fatalities per million of population and above EU average modal share for bus transport.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/care/statistics/series/vehgroup/index_en.htm
http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/03.htm

The conclusion being that every million euro spent on car transport safety saves seven times more lives than a milion euro spent on improving bus safety (for example by teaching people how to drive or enforcing traffic laws). This conclusion is a matter of life and death so if you disagree, please explain.

Libero

"John wrote:

They failed to do so because it wasn't an option.

In most cases buses built without seatbelts cannot be retro-fitted with them as the seats and seat fixing points are not strong enough.

The school bus services are seperately financed to the rest of Bus Eireann services so any profits made in other areas are not relevant.

In recent years all the investment in the schools fleet has been put towards replacement of ageing life-expired buses.

The cost of replacing 3000 buses with new or nearly new vehicles all fitted with seatbelts would be astronomical, the best part of €1 Billion by my rough estimate.

I bow to your knowledge on this.

I should have checked the facts before mouthing off about what could and could not have been done.

Not that the same consideration will prevent every commentator under the sun from declaring the deaths completely preventable and a result of the government's callous refusal to save our kids' lives (insert one's own cliché here).

Macy

Terrible tragedy....

A few points on the seat beat issue...

1) There is no evidence (yet) that seat belts would've made any difference - yet even as reports were breaking commentators were quick to bring it up.

2) Even if there were seat belts, would kids have worn them? I know I probably wouldn't when I was 14, 15, 16...

3) Why blame CIE for a lack of seat belts - it wasn't, and isn't, Government regulations so what exactly would be driving them to fit them? If it's wasn't a big enough issue for Government, CIE's owners, then I don't see how that blame can be laid at them. (I expect the Government to absolve themselves of any responsibility if seat belts were a factor and blame CIE)

4) Why only seat belts on coaches? I feel a lot safer on a coach in the country, than I do standing on a Dublin Bus bombing down the Stillorgan dual carriageway. This, however, doesn't suit the blame game.

MrPudding

Apparently there have been 6 studies into retro fitting seatbelt in all coaches used for school runs. There was also a reccommendation to stop the practice whereby 3 students sit in a seat designed for 2. The first was in 1996 or 1998, like the 5 to follow it was turned down by the department of finance on the grounds of cost.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the 3 investigations that are currently running. Apparently the Gardai have said they are treating the site of the incident as a potential crimescene. If it turns out that a driver did pass a light on red I hope they nail him or her to the wall.

MrP

BrianD3

Macy wrote:

Terrible tragedy....
2) Even if there were seat belts, would kids have worn them? I know I probably wouldn't when I was 14, 15, 16...

Good point. Most of the BE coaches I've been on in the last 5 years have had seatbelts fitted and I've never seen anyone (adults, children, teenagers) using them apart from myself. Also I've gotten a few funny looks when I put on my belt.

eth0_

Hagar wrote:

Thw children were ferried to a number of hospitals according to the news.
Could one local hospital not cope?
Jesus help the people of Ireland if a real major disaster occurs.
.

What, are you saying our hospitals are crap?
It's not often that 50 people would be injured in the same incident with no hospital nearby. You don't know what suspected injuries these kids have. Doctors at the scene would have assessed them and sent them to hospitals that could serve them best. I believe most were sent to the Lourdes in Drogheda which is one of the biggest hospitals in Ireland; the same thing would happen in the UK. You can't foist 50 seriously injured people on the one hospital, you have to prioritise. The most seriously injured were flown by helicopter. I don't think the standard of care for these children is the issue here and I take great offense at your implying that Ireland's hospitals would be unable to cope with a disaster.

smokingman

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Terrible tragedy

From the BBC report, it sounds as if one of the cars in front had went through the temporary red roadwork lights (how else would a head on collison on a single lane happen)

I live near enough to where it happened but let me say this;
When the meath co. council was doing the road up the way a bit just after Duleek heading for Julianstown (it was a right mess - there effectively was no road, more of a path) they put up temporary traffic lights that were not in sync. I don't know how many times I passed along that road and saw that the last car to have the green light at one end had to move in for oncoming traffick because the lights on the other end had gone green early.

I hope to christ this didn't happen here.

My sympathy to all involved and especially to those who lost loved ones.

ishmael whale

Zaph0d wrote:

At a terrible time like this, it's completely understandable for people to think with their hearts rather than their heads. Yet whatever strategy we adopt should result in the lowest number of people dying in future........The conclusion being that every million euro spent on car transport safety saves seven times more lives than a milion euro spent on improving bus safety (for example by teaching people how to drive or enforcing traffic laws). This conclusion is a matter of life and death so if you disagree, please explain.

Spot on.

People might be interested in the review of the school transport scheme, which made the judgement to retain the 3:2 ratio, at the URL below. It makes the sensible point that children using ordinary public transport may well have to stand, so seatbelts are not even on the agenda.

http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/st_transport_review_report.doc?language=EN

• All scheduled road and rail passenger vehicles have a rated carrying capacity in excess of the number of seats. In some cases, such as the DART, the ratio of passengers to seats will in fact be higher than 3:2 at some times of the day. Thus, pupils using scheduled services in cities will often find themselves travelling in conditions much more crowded than would be permitted on buses operated under the scheme.
• It would be normal that, even with 3:2, everyone has a seat (because, on average, 3 children can fit safely and reasonably comfortably into 2 seats). Thus, relatively few passengers carried under the scheme would have to stand, whereas many pupils using scheduled services would regard a seat as a luxury rarely enjoyed.

Phil_321

In all fairness, what child/teenager is going to wear a seatbelt on a bus.

There's no point in giving out about the seatbelts because you'd be hard pressed to find a child/teenager who'd wear one in a car, let alone on a bus with their peers.

Metrobest

Like most things, this seatbelt thing has only become a public issue after the fact. People struggle to come to terms with these kinds of tragedies and there is a feeling of "something must be done." However, this is probably not the best time to engage in kneejerk reactions - what's needed is the full set of facts, what caused the accident, and what can be done to prevent such an awful accident re-occuring.

full forward

Recently I was travelling from Dublin to Co. Clare. There was a Bus Eireann bus driving close behind me. As we approached a town the speed limit changed from 100kph to 50kph so I began to slow down and I was promptly then overtaken by the bus on a solid white line. It was FULL of school kids. I’m sorry I didn’t report this to the guards. I will next time.

HelterSkelter

smokingman wrote:

I live near enough to where it happened but let me say this;
When the meath co. council was doing the road up the way a bit just after Duleek heading for Julianstown (it was a right mess - there effectively was no road, more of a path) they put up temporary traffic lights that were not in sync. I don't know how many times I passed along that road and saw that the last car to have the green light at one end had to move in for oncoming traffick because the lights on the other end had gone green early.

I hope to christ this didn't happen here.

My sympathy to all involved and especially to those who lost loved ones.

If that is true you should make the Guards aware of it.

smokingman

They've moved them since and working on the other side of the road in the last few days. Granted, you can't drive more than 5 mph on it (it's stripped down to the rocks) and a head on is unlikely but the co. council planners or whomever was overseeing that should have more sense and professionalism.

The Black Oil

Bit off topic re: helicopters, are many hositals with equipped with landing pads? The Alouettes are still in use, think they brought one back out of retirement after the crash of a Dauphin in Tramore a few years ago.

There was a small bit on Today FM re: possible preliminary report in 10 weeks from Bus Eireann.

Zaph0d

Hagar wrote:

I live in France.
The Municiple Police are at every school every day making sure that parents/others collecting children do not interfere with the safe boarding of childdren onto a modern, and I do mean modern, fleet of school buses taking children home. They close streets adjacent to schools to ensure no through traffic at crucial times. Yes, it does cost tax money. Lots of it. I pay it gladly.

France has a higher bus accident rate than Ireland and a higher accident rate for all road vehicles. This has been the case for the past 13 years. You wouldn't want Ireland to learn some lessons from the French so we can discover how to push our fatal accident rate up from 87 per million to the French 102 per million.


http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/care/statistics/series/fatal1991_rate/index_en.htm

D'Peoples Voice

Metrobest wrote:

Like most things, this seatbelt thing has only become a public issue after the fact. People struggle to come to terms with these kinds of tragedies and there is a feeling of "something must be done."

I have to agree Metrobest.

There are many points that could have caused this accident, one thing that does come to mind is speed. If there was construction going on in the area, were the cars driving the 50-60kph. If it's like any other road in Ireland, we can assume they were not, because I don't know how many times I've tried going 50-60kph when roadworks are going on and I've been flashed to move over. They caused the accident.

As for the school bus, people blame politicians, all I can say is if local government had better planning, there would be less one off housing, and more urban housing. The net effect of this is that children would live near their school in towns, and would not have to get school buses to and from school. Yes, I know, I know, there are farming communities who are sparesely populated, so you can say it's a mute point, but it's a point all the same.

Hagar

eth0_ wrote:

What, are you saying our hospitals are crap?

Since most Irish hospitals seem to have patients on trolleys at all times, I'm just wondering how many people on trolleys had to be moved out of the way to accommodate the crash victims?

If that's an implication that our hospitals aren't up to scratch....

HelterSkelter

Hagar wrote:

Since most Irish hospitals seem to have patients on trolleys at all times, I'm just wondering how many people on trolleys had to be moved out of the way to accommodate the crash victims?

If that's an implication that our hospitals aren't up to scratch....

It doesn't work like that. In an Emergency they discharge the least sick people from the main hospital wards to make room for the crash victims. I think they have a goal of discharging one person per bay per ward (usually 6 beds in a bay). So they can quickly make a lot of beds available.

BrianD

It also appears to be standard proceedure in other countries to divide the casualties betwen nearby hospitals. Means that more medical resources can be devoted to the casualties.

parsi

Hagar wrote:

I live in France.
The Municiple Police are at every school every day making sure that parents/others collecting children do not interfere with the safe boarding of childdren onto a modern, and I do mean modern, fleet of school buses taking children home. They close streets adjacent to schools to ensure no through traffic at crucial times. Yes, it does cost tax money. Lots of it. I pay it gladly.

Hmm.. I saw the school runs in Dinard last year and a number of the buses were rickety old Renault Traffics (like the old postbus in Clare) and the other coaches were of a similar vintage to the 90-93 vehicles here.

civdef

The most serious casualties go to the nearest available hospital with adequate trauma capability. Less seriously injured and walking wounded will be transported further if necessary, with initial treatment on scene if appropriate.

http://www.hebe.ie/ProgrammesProjects/MajorEmergencyPlanning/Documentation/FiletoUpload,1692,en.pdf

http://www.emergency-management.net/4th_symposium/bio_present/RomigEmergenciesTriage.pdf

http://www.pitt.edu/~super1/lecture/lec17941/index.htm

ishmael whale

Delightful. At a time when the physical conditions of many schools need attention, the President of the National Parents Council has decided that we need to blow whatever cash is available on replacing the school bus fleet. Of course she can’t see any problem in sourcing a fleet of buses in three and a half months, and the question of where the money would come from doesn’t even enter the equation.

You can’t beat synchronising national priorities with the last Daily Star headline.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/
Parents urged to boycott school buses with no seatbelts
25/05/2005 - 10:27:11

The National Parents Council has urged parents not to allow their children to travel on school buses unless they are fitted with seatbelts. The Department of Education has said it would be impossible to fit belts on all school buses before the start of the new term in September.

However, Parents Council president Eleanor Petrie said parents should not be content with this. "Every parent wants the best for their child and they want it as soon as possible," she said. "Three-and-a-half months should be enough for a company like Bus Éireann to look for a suitable fleet."

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.dioceseofmeath.ie/ - Book of Condondolences (by email)

seamus

Sorry to take this on a tangent, but I'm skeptical that seatbelts on a school bus would have prevented this tragedy. Who's going to make sure each child is belted up?

gerrydublin

ishmael whale wrote:

Delightful. At a time when the physical conditions of many schools need attention, the President of the National Parents Council has decided that we need to blow whatever cash is available on replacing the school bus fleet.

Good point, haven't they already earmarked an increase of a billion or two to pay for the massive increases teachers got under benchmarking.
That's not to take into account the cost of the exponential rise in the employment of special needs teachers over the past 2-3 years.
That is also not to take account of the fact that many schools are in such a dilapidated state that there is a greater risk of injury to the students INSIDE the school than outside the school. Major investment is needed here.

Victor

However, Parents Council president Eleanor Petrie said parents should not be content with this. "Every parent wants the best for their child and they want it as soon as possible," she said. "Three-and-a-half months should be enough for a company like Bus Éireann to look for a suitable fleet."

She was onto the radio this evening and while not coming down from her pedestal, did admit she had shot her mouth off - prematurely. :rolleyes:

As someone said "How many people insist that their kids wear their seatbelts in their cars, which already have seatbelts?"

seamus

Victor wrote:

As someone said "How many people insist that their kids wear their seatbelts in their cars, which already have seatbelts?"

And how many kids, unsupervised (effectively), on a bus full of their mates would bother using them?

jman0

Apparently in some US states, kids are forced to wear seatbelts on school buses.
Check out the video (you have to give it a moment before it shows the on-bus camera footage)
http://www.tampabays10.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=14260

Zaph0d

Victor wrote:

As someone said "How many people insist that their kids wear their seatbelts in their cars, which already have seatbelts?"

and the answer is:

Less than half of school children wore seat-belts in back seats last year, despite the introduction of penalty points for the offence, a study carried out by the National Roads Authority has revealed....A low rate of back-seat belt wearing remains a problem as does the use of belts by children. Only 68 per cent of primary pupils in front seats wore belts, while only 48 per cent wore them in the back. Among secondary students, 62 per cent wore belts in the front while 44 per cent wore them in the back.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motoring/2004/1110/752038688MOT10SPEEDP1.html

MrPudding

There is a thread in the parenting board about kids in cars with no seatbelt. Personally I cannot understand how a parent woul dlet a small child travel in the car without one.

MrP

BrianD

The parents council call for a boycott is well out of order. In other countries, where are huge resources devoted to school transportation, the 3-for-2 practice is in place and the seat belts are not used. Furthermore, seat belts need to be examined on a cost benefit basis and one of the factors to be considered is will one seat belt fit all?

HelterSkelter

BrianD wrote:

Furthermore, seat belts need to be examined on a cost benefit basis and one of the factors to be considered is will one seat belt fit all?

You are always weighing up cost against saving lives, the same with the crash barriers on the motorways. I wonder how you would react if one of your loved ones was involved in a serious accident that could have been avoided if money was spend on safety features.

Hagar

Quote "Only 68 per cent of primary pupils in front seats wore belts, while only 48 per cent wore them in the back. Among secondary students, 62 per cent wore belts in the front while 44 per cent wore them in the back."

By my reckoning that could mean 2 maybe even 3 of the five children could be alive today and the injuries could have been significantly reduced. Does that make the fitting of seat-belts sound any better?

MrPudding

Hagar wrote:

Quote "Only 68 per cent of primary pupils in front seats wore belts, while only 48 per cent wore them in the back. Among secondary students, 62 per cent wore belts in the front while 44 per cent wore them in the back."

By my reckoning that could mean 2 maybe even 3 of the five children could be alive today and the injuries could have been significantly reduced. Does that make the fitting of seat-belts sound any better?

That is assuming you actually know the cause of their death, or have inside information that the rest of the world doesn't have yet.

MrP

seamus

Hagar wrote:

Quote "Only 68 per cent of primary pupils in front seats wore belts, while only 48 per cent wore them in the back. Among secondary students, 62 per cent wore belts in the front while 44 per cent wore them in the back."

By my reckoning that could mean 2 maybe even 3 of the five children could be alive today and the injuries could have been significantly reduced. Does that make the fitting of seat-belts sound any better?

You're also assuming there that the 48% figure still holds up when the child is unsupervised.

embraer170

That is assuming you actually know the cause of their death, or have inside information that the rest of the world doesn't have yet.

Looking at pictures, the structure of the bus doesn't seem to have been badly damaged. I would assume the majority of deaths were kids thrown around inside the bus or ejected from the bus.

BrianD

HelterSkelter wrote:

You are always weighing up cost against saving lives, the same with the crash barriers on the motorways. I wonder how you would react if one of your loved ones was involved in a serious accident that could have been avoided if money was spend on safety features.

Don't be ridiculous! This is reality we are dealing with. In the overall scheme of things fitting safety belts and so on is low priority as a road safety issue. Why stop at fitting belts to school buses? Lets see every single bus fitted with them and a 3 -point belt that will accomodate any passenger of any age and physique. Is my life worth more or less than the average schoolkid?

There is an acceptable level of risk in everything we do. At the moment the current arrangements are perfectly reasonable and acceptable. Can improvements be introduced? Let them come in on a phased basis. No doubt the next lot of buses to cascade down from BE will have them. Are the suitable for all school children to use...probably not. Will they reduce the average number of fatalities or injuries on school buses ...probably not. The current debate about school bus seat belts and 3 for 2 is a spurious and kneejerk debate.

There is only so much money you can throw at a problem before it becomes impractical and uneconomical. Everything we do involves risk.

Victor

HelterSkelter wrote:

You are always weighing up cost against saving lives, the same with the crash barriers on the motorways. I wonder how you would react if one of your loved ones was involved in a serious accident that could have been avoided if money was spend on safety features.

Well for €500 billion, you could make every road in the country a dual carriageway and head on collisions would become much less common, but people would still die.

Money is a rare commodity (see your economics book) - it can either be spent on "a" or "b" (or "c") - does one spend it on seatbelts or padded seating or better brakes?

John R

Hagar wrote:

Quote "Only 68 per cent of primary pupils in front seats wore belts, while only 48 per cent wore them in the back. Among secondary students, 62 per cent wore belts in the front while 44 per cent wore them in the back."

By my reckoning that could mean 2 maybe even 3 of the five children could be alive today and the injuries could have been significantly reduced. Does that make the fitting of seat-belts sound any better?

And bus travel is what? About 7 times safer than car travel (that is without seat belts on the majority of buses) so how many kids lives could be saved by transporting all of them to/from school by bus (even the 20+ year old "death traps" I have heard so much about recently) rather then letting their mummies drive them in their SUVs and Nissan Micras.

The Black Oil

FFS, have some respect.

Hagar

When I signed up for the Boards I must not have seen the box you tick to indicate being a smartarsé.
It seems this forum is infested with people who ticked that box.
Some of you guys should trying reading what's actually posted not twisting other peoples posts to mean something that was never actually said.

And as the last poster so succintly put it "Show some respect FFS"

MrPudding

Hagar wrote:

When I signed up for the Boards I must not have seen the box you tick to indicate being a smartarsé.

Funny, even though you did not see it you still managed to tick it.:D

Hagar wrote:

And as the last poster so succintly put it "FFS Have some respect"

I woul dthink that most people here do have respect and a lot of sympathy for those who have lost loved ones and friends. Having a rational and objective discussion about possible causes for this tragic loss of life and possible ways to prevent it from happening in the future is not disrespectfull. However, using it for political mileage is.

MrP

Victor

DavidL banned.

Victor

http://www.buseireann.ie/site/home/

Bus Éireann Set Up Board of Inquiry to investigate the Kentstown School Bus tragedy of Monday 23rd May 2005.

At an emergency meeting on Tuesday 24th May 2005 the Chairman Dr John Lynch and the Board of Bus Éireann extended their deepest sympathy to the families and friends of the victims as well as to those injured in the Kentstown school bus tragedy.

At the meeting the Board set up an independent Board of Inquiry comprising national and international transport professionals representing all aspects of the bus industry as well as road traffic experts.

The Board of Inquiry will be chaired by former Assistant Garda Commissioner Jim McHugh and the terms of Reference are:

- To investigate the circumstances of the accident

- To establish the cause(s) and any contributory factors.

- The committee will report its findings and recommendations to the Bus Eireann board within ten weeks of its initial meeting.

The costs of the investigation shall be borne by Bus Éireann. The Board has the power to authorise all reasonable expenditure in fulfilling its task. The information and communication during the investigation period shall be considered to be confidential.

The Members of the Board of Inquiry are:

Jim McHugh (Chairman)

Mr. Jim McHugh is a former Assistant Commissioner of the Garda Siochana. Mr. McHugh served 39 years in the force and his last assignment was in charge of the Dublin Metropolitan Region. During his career in the Garda Siochana he gained vast experience in the investigation of serious incidents.

Peter Jennings

Mr. Jennings is a forensic scientist with the Transport Research Laboratory in the UK.

Finbar Crowley

Mr. Crowley recently retired as Head of Road Safety and Research from the National Roads Authority (NRA). While there he was responsible for setting up the road safety engineering response to traffic accidents with the NRA.

Tras Honan

Tras Honan is former Cathaoirleach of the Seanad and chairman of the Bus Éireann Safety Board. Mrs Honan is also a member of the Board of Bus Éireann

Georges Feltz

Mr. Feltz is Chief engineer / Head of department with the City of Luxembourg bus and transport department. He also holds a licence to test drive bus and HGV’s.

Dick Langford

Mr. Langford is a Member of the Board of Bus Éireann and outgoing Chief Executive Officer of the City of Cork VEC.

Hugo Van Wesemael

Hugo Van Wesemael is a transport consultant and former Director General of Flanders Transport and Chairman of the EU Bus Commission as well as the European Committee of the International Union of Public Transport.

Mr. Joe Neiland

Mr. Neiland is the Chief Mechanical Engineer, Bus Éireann.

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/press_story2.html

Major Investigation launched following Co. Meath Bus Crash
Gardaí have commenced a major investigation following yesterday's bus crash at Kentstown, Navan, Co. Meath which resulted in the deaths of five schoolgirls.

The collision occurred at around 4.20pm when a Bus Éireann coach carrying over 50 secondary school children turned over on its side. Two cars were also involved.

A major emergency plan was activated and over 40 casualties were taken to hospitals in Navan and Drogheda. There were five fatalities.

The victims have been named as follows:

15 year old Lisa Callan, Newtown, Beauparc, Navan.
18 year old Claire McCluskey, Rathdrinagh, Beauparc, Navan.
15 year old Aimee McCabe, Hayestown, Navan.
17 year old Deirdre Scanlon, Yellow Furze, Beauparc, Navan.
15 year old Sinead Ledwidge, Senchalstown, Navan


The Navan to Kentstown road remains closed whilst a technical examination of the scene takes place. The vehicles involved have been removed for technical examination.

An Incident room has been set up at Navan Garda Station telephone 046 - 9079930.

skywalker_208

Alot of emphasis seems to be going towards the seatbelt issue - if they were there i dont think any of the kids would have been wearing them anyway....

From reading the reports in todays indo it would appear that the bad positioning of the traffic lights and bad surface were big factors.

I would have to agree with this. Approx 1 week before this happened i was on this road - came around a bend and there was a line of traffic right there in front of me stopped at temp traffic lights... had to seriously slam on the brakes and just stopped in time! the van behind me had to do the same and his tyres screeched behind me - he had to swerve onto the other side of the road to avoid hitting me and stalled when he eventually stopped...(just as well there was nothing coming in other direction.. the Kentstown road is generally a busy road for trucks etc...) was a close one.. I was very shakey for the rest of the journey. Have to say there was no signs that i could see to warn about these lights...