How to Improve the Eircom League?

redspider

Big Ears wrote:

Ya whatever be said about bandwagon supporters in English football we certainly need them in LOI , Europe is the way to gain support a lot of people all over the country became interested in Shels when they went on their run last year.
I don't think having UCD in the league is of any benefit , they will never get big crowds and it might be better if they weren't around . Dublin City are another club that I can't see ever getting big crowds but since they're not a college team theres no real reason to single them out from a group of clubs that just don't get big crowds and never will .

Agreed, bandwagon supporters are what LOI needs right now. Europe is one way to gain some but success in Europe every year will be difficult. The easier and more financially beneficial route for LOI is that the league itself should be improved to attract more fans and more money.

I'm glad someone agrees with me about UCD and a club in the same shape as Dublin City.


Now, for my weekly way to improve the LOI. A simple way, Goals. Yes, Goals and more of them. The LOI clubs just do not produce enough goals. Its a catch-22 situation. Poor clubs with poor players playing against each other can produce poor games, but not always the case. There is a lot of negativity in the league, and goals are hard to come by for most. Some evidence:

Team P W D L GF GA Pts
Derry City 13 7 3 3 15 8 24
Drogheda U 14 6 5 3 18 14 23
Bohemians 12 5 4 3 13 12 19
Longford Tn 15 5 4 6 11 11 19
UCD 14 4 5 5 12 14 17
Bray Wands 14 4 2 8 18 25 14
Waterford U 14 4 2 8 12 21 14
St Pat's 13 3 4 6 14 18 13
Finn Harps 14 3 2 9 10 19 11
Shamrock R 14 3 5 6 15 23 6

Most of the teams are averaging about 1 goal a game. This is far too low. Longford, for example, have only scored 11 goals in 15 games.

Töpher

We have great goalkeepers!

_blank_

redspider wrote:

Now, for my weekly way to improve the LOI. A simple way, Goals. Yes, Goals and more of them.

Hopefully last week's six goal thriller in the RSC in Waterford between Waterford United and Shels was up to your liking.

It had everything.

Waterford went one up, then two one down.

Pegged back to two two.

Shels then got a third, but Waterford kept the pressure on, until finally, right at the end, Shels scored again to make it four two.

What a game for everyone to see, pity so many missed it.

We should have told someone beforehand about all these goals that were going to be scored.

Einst&#252 wrote: »

We have great goalkeepers!

Yep, we do. Willo, and now Deano!!

Top quality saves against Longford on Monday night.

Töpher

seansouth wrote:

Yep, we do. Willo, and now Deano!!

Top quality saves against Longford on Monday night.

Damn straight! Amazing display! Can't get over how impressed I was!

redspider

seansouth wrote:

Hopefully last week's six goal thriller in the RSC in Waterford between Waterford United and Shels was up to your liking. It had everything. Waterford went one up, then two one down. Pegged back to two two. Shels then got a third, but Waterford kept the pressure on, until finally, right at the end, Shels scored again to make it four two. What a game for everyone to see, pity so many missed it.

Maybe I spoke too soon, or too late! I missed that game, and there were others too on the same night which have increased the goal tallies:

Cork City 0 - 0 Longford Town (R)
St Patrick's Athletic 0 - 2 Drogheda United (R)
Shamrock Rovers 1 - 4 Finn Harps (R)
UCD 3 - 2 Bray Wanderers (R)
Waterford United 2 - 4 Shelbourne (R)


I guess this comes back to the point of media coverage. I had completely missed these results. I didnt hear any ranting and raving on TV or radio channels about how good these matches were, and there were no highlights shown apart from the TV3 one (I presume), which is not the most professional of coverage and I have tended not to watch it.

RTE are paying huge money to Bill O'Herlihy, Giles, Dunphy, Brafy et al for English premiership and it is a huge error by the Irish government not to force RTE to put in a respectable amount of coverage for the LOI. In terms of solutions, that is the first step to take, and perhaps lobbying by core fans to politicians would achieve something. These games, due to their evening kick-offs perhaps, may have finished after the 9:00 news/sport was over and that would be very visible coverage and is an opportunity missed imo, although I realise that the evening kick-offs allow fans to attend. A suitable level of media coverage is missing.

Btw, is there anywhere on the net that has the goals from those matches available for downloading? Even the club sites themselves? If not, this is something that the clubs (and fans) can do for themselves to promote their own image ad the league. Even those brilliant saves you mention could also be put up and made available. Perhaps something for volunteer fans to get involved with .....

Redspider

_blank_

About the goals being available, I think there is some problem with the TV companies allowing clubs to have the goals on the websites, I know for certain that Setanta had a problem with it. (I am one of your volunteer fans!!)

gimmick

corkcityfc.ie always has the goals up with 2-3 days of every home match, and the occasional away game as well.

redspider

gimmick wrote:

corkcityfc.ie always has the goals up with 2-3 days of every home match, and the occasional away game as well.

Thanks for that. Yes, there are many goals there in the Match Highlights section. Some good ones too I might add. I presume Chorus TV is actually showing some games from time to time.

What about other clubs? If Cork City are showing TV3 and Setanta footage, then there is nothing stopping the other clubs, unless Cork are doing it on the qt. Something for the volunteers to approach their clubs with, perhaps.

Redspider

Slash/ED

www.shelbournefc.ie has a few, not too many but a few goals up. They'll be added more consistently in the future I think.

redspider

ok Slashed. Links to good goals are always welcome to be posted here.


Another way to improve the LOI clubs: Dont run a club into financial ruin.


eg: Rovers:

Hoops put squad up for sale
Friday, 01 July 2005 9:14

Rovers' manager Roddy Collins has expressed his desire to stay with the famous Dublin club. Shamrock Rovers have placed the entire first team squad on the transfer list in a drastic bid to cut the wage bill. Survival as an entity is the main concern for the Hoops during their period of examinership, which has left the club with no other option but to put all the players up for sale. Despite the uncertainty, manager Roddy Collins and several top players have expressed their desire to stay with the famous Dublin club.

---

This is a crazy situation. Shamrock Rovers, arguably the most famous LOI club of all (outside Ireland) are in a mess, equivalent to a Real Madrid, a Barca, a Liverpool or a Man U selling their squad. Outsiders and potential supporters and punters when looking at this will think the LOI is a joke. I think al the other LOI clubs should be supportive in some way of ensuring that Rovers survive, as Rovers is a big brand name for the LOI, probably the biggest.

Btw, with a winter league, the transfer windows would be in sync with the rest of the league and you wouldnt have a situation of the better players leaving a club with just one third of the way through, or as in Sham's case, the whole bleeding squad !

Redspider

gimmick

Typical really, you look at the negative as being the norm, rather than accentuate the positives that clubs like Cork City, Longford Towm, Drogheda United, Shels etc bring to the league.

Rovers have been in dire straits for a long time now, and look at it this way, would any other club have survived as long as Shams in a similar mess? Thats fair play to fans/various goodwill paymenst etc.

Not to mention the fact that Shams arent the first club in history to put their entire first team squad on sale. See Leeds United, Wrexham, Colchester, Fulham 7 years ago. tats not a poor indictment of the English League is it?

As for the winter league. Give it a rest will you. Plenty leagues work garnd with Summer Leagues. The eL is slowly but surely improving, and its no co-incidence that this is happening along side summer football. Also, players in 'winter leagues' can leave halfway through a season in the xmas transfer window? Where is the difference?

_blank_

gimmick wrote:

the positives..that..Shels..bring to the league.

:eek: :eek:

I think someone kidnapped gimmick and is posting under his username.

applehunter

Gimmick I think you are looking through rose tinted glasses. Redspider is speaking sensible stuff there. The league is only as good as its weakest link.

Rovers, Waterford, Dundalk are clubs that have won more titles together that probably every other club combined and yet they are all facing down the barrel of a gun.

Dave hannigan has made the point over and over again but nobody has ever been brought to task.

How the **** did the directors of Shamrock Rovers get away with spending grant money(c.€1,000,000) for their capital infrastructure on players wages.

It is a disgrace. That is tax money given by the citizens of this state and it is in all probablitity in the arse pocket of Paddy Power. It pisses me off when you see Brian Lennox in Cork building on solid foundations in Cork and being prudent with his decisions, meanwhile Tony McGuire et al acting the bollix in Dublin.

redspider

Well, I have to admit something thats right about the LOI! (for once!)

The clubs in Europe have all played very well so far, Bohs excepting, although their opposition may have been better. Shelbourne should make it through. I saw bits of their game against Glentoran, not enough to judge either team really. The Liverpool/TNS game was better. TNS had a few nice touches too.

I'll be looking out for how far the Irish teams progress, but so far, its a case of so far, so good.

Redspider

Big Ears

Maybe the Liverpool game was better for a Liverpool fan but for the neutral (neutral as in I don't support Shels but obviously wishing a LOI side to do well) Shels V Glens was better .

So Redspider do you take back your comments about summer football or persist with the crazy idea of playing the same time as the English league ?

redspider

Big Ears wrote:

Maybe the Liverpool game was better for a Liverpool fan but for the neutral Shels V Glens was better. So Redspider do you take back your comments about summer football or persist with the crazy idea of playing the same time as the English league ?

I dont want to get into a slagging match over which game was better, etc, but I think that even Shels fans would admit that the quality of the football that Liverpool played was better than that of Shelbourne. That doesnt mean that Shelbourne were bad. Far from it. The match was what you could expect in an LOI match, but for once for Fenlon and the team, things seem to go their way. A well deserved victory.

No, I dont take back the suggestion to revert back to a winter league, the same as Europe. Whilst if your ambitions are to beat Azerbijani and other teams of that ilk on a regular basis in Europe, having a "summer" league may provide some advantage for that, and there are other positive aspects also, but I still think that the disadvantages of a summer league outweigh those, *especially* (and its an important clause) if you want the LOI clubs to get into a position of challenging the likes of a Celtic or a Rangers on the field and in financial terms.

Maybe the summer league can be an interim solution which will push the clubs into a better echelon of football and finances, but the long-term solution must be returning to what all the other top leagues in Europe do, and that is an Aug-May league.

For the LOI, it also means we dont have to compete with the GAA, as the LOI will compete with English football (and Scottish-based) from next month on.

Redspider

Jivin Turkey

While obviously under the current Summer set up EL clubs would never make an impact of the CL proper, I cant imagine that ever really happening bar a huge turnaround in finances/fortunes of all EL clubs.

The current set up means they can compete in the first few qualifying rounds and improve their finances somewhat as well as their co-efficient. I wouldnt call it an interim solution, as this will continue for the foreseeable future, but if the EL clubs ever reached a stage that they could expect to challenge in a CL group I could see the season changing back.

The Summer season has huge benefits for the game as its given far more exposure due to the absence of other soccer news. Ive definitely noticed the EL more in the daily papers. I dont think it has to compete with the GAA as the GAA games are on Sundays and the EL games are generally on Fri/Sat. Also for many GAA counties (Cavan/Wexford/Tipperary/Kerry to name a few) there are no EL teams so I cant understand what they could be competing against.

redspider

Jivin Turkey wrote:

The current set up means they can compete in the first few qualifying rounds and improve their finances somewhat as well as their co-efficient. I wouldnt call it an interim solution, as this will continue for the foreseeable future, but if the EL clubs ever reached a stage that they could expect to challenge in a CL group I could see the season changing back.

Well, with Shelbourne out of the CL, so much for co-efficients. It will hardly improve. And their finances would have been much more imrpoved if they would have met Liverpool and lost in the 1st round.

You are right that its not an interim solution as it will likely continue, and the LOI will likely continue in the state its in, which is far from competing with the likes of Celtic/Rangers, which is my hypothesis, a target we know we could reach with a major change in approach.


So, continuing with my theme of whats wrong with the LOI, can I now state performances in Europe, or is this just a blip or was last year just a blip? Time will tell.

Another thing I heard of recently from players. Many are part-time and have jobs, yet the league plays any which day it likes, so that causes some players to drop back to weekend and junior football, which has less expenses. Weekend football would seem to be the solution for this? Can we go back to standard Saturday football? Maybe Sat eve at 6:00 is a compromise for all and would work in the summer time as well .......

redspider

_blank_

redspider wrote:

Well, with Shelbourne out of the CL, so much for co-efficients. It will hardly improve.

Do you know how co-efficient works?

We got co-efficient points for our two wins over Glentoran, and a half point(?) for the drawn game against Steaua.

CCFC picked up a point for their win against Ekranes, as did Longford for their win against Carmarthen.

redspider wrote:

And their finances would have been much more imrpoved if they would have met Liverpool and lost in the 1st round.

But we wouldn't have got to the second round - anyway, both teams (Shels and Liverpool) were seeded in the first round, so your situation was an impossibility, I thought we pointed this out to you weeks ago, no?

redspider wrote:

Another thing I heard of recently from players. Many are part-time and have jobs, yet the league plays any which day it likes, so that causes some players to drop back to weekend and junior football, which has less expenses. Weekend football would seem to be the solution for this? Can we go back to standard Saturday football? Maybe Sat eve at 6:00 is a compromise for all and would work in the summer time as well .......

Would you like to point to a couple of examples of where the league is "played on any which day it likes"? I doubt you will find many, if any.

There have been recently been games played on Mondays to accomodate our representatives in Europe. Would you prefer the situation from a couple of weeks ago where one team was forced to play a CL game on a Wednesday then an eL game 48 hours later on a Friday?

redspider

seansouth wrote:

Do you know how co-efficient works?
... anyway, both teams (Shels and Liverpool) were seeded in the first round, so your situation was an impossibility
... Would you like to point to a couple of examples of where the league is "played on any which day it likes"? I doubt you will find many, if any.
There have been recently been games played on Mondays ... where one team was forced to play a CL game on a Wednesday then an eL game 48 hours later on a Friday?

Yes, I understand the concept of the co-efficients, although I do not know by heart how the exact calcs are done. My key point stands though in that Shelbourne's and Ireland's co-efficient will not be significantly different from last season, or indeed any season out of the last 30. LOI clubs progress in Europe has been minimal. The only change over the decades is that Europe has become bigger!

The point about Shels meeting Liverpool was that many Shels fans on this forum argued the point that it was better not to meet Liverpool and instead gain more co-efficient points. My argument at the time was that the points may not come about and a loss against Liverpool would be better for the club.

The "any which day it likes" is a fact I had thought, as in fixtures being set for most days in the week. I had pointed this out in an earlier post. Even this week we have:

THURSDAY AUGUST 11 Bohemians -v- Bray Wand's 7.45
FRIDAY AUGUST 12
EIRCOM LEAGUE PREMIER DIVISION
Waterford United -v- Shamrock Rvrs 7.30
RSC
St Pat's Ath -v- Derry City 7.45
Richmond Park
UCD -v- Longford Town 7.45
Belfield Park
SATURDAY AUGUST 13
EIRCOM LEAGUE PREMIER DIVISION
Finn Harps -v- Drogheda Utd 7.45
Finn Park
SUNDAY AUGUST 14
EIRCOM LEAGUE FIRST DIVISION
Dublin City -v- Galway United 3.00
Richmond Park


So, LOI football on Thu, Fri, Sat and Sun and god knows when next
week. Its spread out so much that potential fans cant follow it.

Yes, I dont agree that a team that plays CL football on a Wed should have to play 48 hrs later, that makes no sense. A better selection of days for LOI matches would help players that are part-time AND clubs do well in Europe, so that is a no-brainer, you would think.

redspider

gimmick

redspider wrote:

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Look at any league, perhaps even The 'Championship' in the UK. The games are spread between Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Even in your beloved Premiership, the games are spread out.

You have yet to come out with anything reasonable, instead wasting time of your own and others. I particualrly like this little gem

My argument at the time was that the points may not come about and a loss against Liverpool would be better for the club

Well the points DID come about, and more could be on the way with City still in Europe. And I have yet to come across a team who wanted to lose in the first qualifying round.

So, LOI football on Thu, Fri, Sat and Sun and god knows when next

So what? If you are a fan, which you obviously arent, and never intend on being, it wont matter what day your team are playing.

Slash/ED

redspider wrote:

. My key point stands though in that Shelbourne's and Ireland's co-efficient will not be significantly different from last season, or indeed any season out of the last 30

That is so inaccurate I don't even know where to begin

Jonny Arson

TBH I have to agree with redspider about the fixtures.

Having a round of eL fixtures spread out over as many as 3/4 days is ridiculous. The league needs continutiy in it's fixture structure so IMO all fixtures should be played on the same day/night unless there is TV coverage or European matches played beforehand. However this is complete minor issue in terms of improving the league and the FAI and the clubs must focus on youth structures.

Dermot Keely made a good point in The Sun yesterday about this. He said that kids should not be playing competitively until they are 13 or so. I agree with this as managers in schoolboy teams primary focus is to win games rather than nurture talent (this is from my experience of schoolboy football 5 years ago). He said that kids should be playing on smaller pitches in order to encourage them to pass the ball,be confortable on it to improve them technically (the hoofing culture of eL shows this). He also mentioned about bringing in experienced foreign coaches who can advise us on how to drastically improve our game from schoolboy level up to eL level and again this is something I comletely agree with as we are years behind our europen counterparts.

We have to start at grassroots level if we are ever to improve but it will need investment...... FAI and investment...... probably not gonna happen then.

redspider

gimmick wrote:

-blah, blah

- Look at any league, perhaps even The 'Championship' in the UK. The games are spread between Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Even in your beloved Premiership, the games are spread out. If you are a fan, which you obviously arent, and never intend on being, it wont matter what day your team are playing.

- Well the points DID come about, and more could be on the way with City still in Europe. And I have yet to come across a team who wanted to lose in the first qualifying round.

Lads, I dont see why you get your backs up if I point out a few things that are wrong in LOI. I'm not anti-LOI, far from it. I've been to more LOI games than any other league. Perhaps as many as 40, not huge, I'm not a "go every 2nd week fan". I've been to games up and down the country. A couple of friends of mine used to play LOI football. I played under-age football with one of them. If you cant discuss a point properly and level-headed, then forget it.

Back to the issues: the "playing all the days of the week" problem IS a problem for those that may not be 100% devout fans, fans that the LOI needs badly, and indeed for players who are part-time and not full profs. ie: the majority. Indeed, it was a player who brought this up as a problem. The premeirship in englad can afford to have games whenever it likes as the fan base is assured and on a different scale completely. The LOI needs to gather as many fans and followers, armchair, bandwagon, part-time, etc, as it can. Look, if LOI fans only accept 100% LOI fans, off you go with yourselves and watch ****e football for the rest of your lives. No-one will care for you or the LOI. You'll be treated as the Phoenix park A Div (Wed, Thu, Fri, Sat).

In terms of LOI clubs and their success in Europe, on the grand scale of things, they werent succesful last year, or the year before or the 30 years before that, or ever. Thats the problem we are in. A few extra co-oeeficient points here or there are just scraps. Again, no-one will give a damn. This year isnt over, but it probably wont be long. Come back and tell me what the points were last season and this.


The point that Zane makes about youth football is valid. A new and better structure would help foster more players, but that is no guarantee of a better LOI. It may just mean more fodder and some lucky sods who ake the grade for the English clubs.

The only way to change LOI is to get new fans going. That means changes, of some sort.

Gimmick and Slashed, do you have any?

redspider

Seaneh

For co-efficient to make a fu*king bit of differaince Irish clubs would have to be doing a whole lot better than they are, they are not important at this stage of the development of the eircom league and shouldn't even be worried about for atleast 5 years if not more.

What the eircom league needs is a total over haul.
Change of structure, organisation and for **** sake the fixtures are a joke, games are regularly changed with less than 2 days to go and put on thursdays, wednessdays or any other day the league feels like annoying fans.

Certain teams need to be disbanded/kicked out of the league/whatever.

Kildare County are a joke, U.C.D are a joke, Dublin city are a joke, between those 3 clubs combined there is about as much support as there is for dundalk, and thats no a lot.

the league is a mess, 75% of the players have very little talent and are either just big ****er or fast ****ers.

Jonny Arson

Seaneh wrote:

Certain teams need to be disbanded/kicked out of the league/whatever.

Kildare County are a joke, U.C.D are a joke, Dublin city are a joke, between those 3 clubs combined there is about as much support as there is for dundalk, and thats no a lot.

Yeah just shutting down teams is really going to help matters is it? :rolleyes:

Slash/ED

Seaneh wrote:

For co-efficient to make a fu*king bit of differaince Irish clubs would have to be doing a whole lot better than they are, they are not important at this stage of the development of the eircom league and shouldn't even be worried about for atleast 5 years if not more.

Co-efficents are the difference between us being seeded or not seeded in the first round and atm we are on the edge there.

_blank_

Seaneh wrote:

For co-efficient to make a fu*king bit of differaince Irish clubs would have to be doing a whole lot better than they are, they are not important at this stage of the development of the eircom league and shouldn't even be worried about for atleast 5 years if not more.

What the eircom league needs is a total over haul.
Change of structure, organisation and for **** sake the fixtures are a joke, games are regularly changed with less than 2 days to go and put on thursdays, wednessdays or any other day the league feels like annoying fans.

Certain teams need to be disbanded/kicked out of the league/whatever.

Kildare County are a joke, U.C.D are a joke, Dublin city are a joke, between those 3 clubs combined there is about as much support as there is for dundalk, and thats no a lot.

the league is a mess, 75% of the players have very little talent and are either just big ****er or fast ****ers.

I think you probably need to have a proper read through this thread.

EVERY idea you have spouted out there has been gone over.

redspider

seansouth wrote:

I think you probably need to have a proper read through this thread. EVERY idea you have spouted out there has been gone over.

I agree with Seaneh's observations. I have mentioned these points in the thread but isnt it strange that the same suggestions keep popping up over and over again? This is not a coincidence.

I think whats vexing for us all is that the LOI has so much potential, and has always had potential. It wont be easy to change decades and mindsets of the position that we are in today, but that does not mean it is impossible. There are lots of blockages though, even from the clubs themselves.

I do understand the position of making gains in Europe, and slowly but surely improving the lot for all. But this wont work long-term and is at best clutching at straws.

I think the only way to change things is to bring about some sort of National Debate in the media and enact major changes, some will be experimental and wont work, but something should be done.

redspider

gimmick

Just to change the theme of this discussion slightly, but one great way of improving this league is laugh at those who say "I would go see _______ if they wereplaing out my back garden".

I had one of these conversations the other night, shockingly, with a guy who started me going to see City back in the days of yore ( ). He is, you see, a 'Liverpool fan'. He spends in excess of €3000 a year supporting his team. Hilariously, and he actually said this, €700 of that is his Sky Sports Sub, I asked how many times he gets to Anfield, its generally twice a season, but only for the 'big games, I wouldnt be bothered with Villa or Charlton or crap like them". Where the rest of the money goes I have no idea - probably on crisps at the pub where he goes to watch the matches even though he has the sub at home.

On asking him why he didnt go to the Cross anymore - "Ive moved on, graduated from that rubbish".

On asking him did he watch the City Vs Djurgardens game - "Watched some of it, awful, too much long ball".

By the end of this chat I wasnt annoyed, I was chuckling at how stupid this guy is. I thought for a minute maybe he was winding me up, then he said that the night Liverpool won the CL "best night of my life, the pub was rocking, dancing on the fountain afterwards".

Yup, thats what football is all about :rolleyes:

Slash/ED

Long balls? Was he confused which team was which!?

Big Ears

Slash/ED wrote:

Long balls? Was he confused which team was which!?

Sometimes when people get an idea of what something is like into their head , they can't change that idea no matter how incorrect it is .

KdjaCL

Big Ears wrote:

Sometimes when people get an idea of what something is like into their head , they can't change that idea no matter how incorrect it is .

Correct, Keane to Silvestre who hoofs it to RVN isnt a long ball , nor is any forward pass Chelsea make to Drogba or even Gerrards sublte chip over the top to Owen. Thats technical ability at the highest level.


kdjac

Slash/ED

Indeed. Van Der Saar managed to get an assist for the winner v Newcastle ffs.

MrJoeSoap

Slash/ED wrote:

Van Der Saar managed to get an assist for the winner v Newcastle ffs.

With a pass threaded through the eye of a needle no doubt?

I hate when people mention the long ball as a means of putting the eircom league down. Some of my mates reckon its like watching football in slow motion.

jubbly

Play-offs proposed
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Click here!

ONE of the world's leading football finance experts has suggested that the Eircom League should end the regular season with a championship play-off.

Dr Bill Gerrard, who is a professor in sport management and finance at Leeds University Business School, believes it would greatly enhance the profile and increase attendances if there was a title showdown.

Professor Gerrard was speaking at a marketing seminar organised by the Eircom League which was held yesterday in the National College of Ireland in Dublin.

Professor Gerrard also suggested the introduction of a salary cap, would allow Irish clubs to exercise greater financial control, and suggested the league could be marketed as 'a young guns league' but with the addition of veteran stars as marquee players, as has happened in the Australian league. http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1459648&issue_id=12934

Seems like there was some kind of conference on about it ... im not sure about having a play off for the championship .. do they mean between first and second ? or is it for relegation.

I think there is one thing they should change, changing the goals scored and conceded to the way La Liga has it. It only counts against the oppostion you are facing. I dont know how to describe it fully.

redspider

Those are valid suggestions by that Professor.

The play-offs could be like those of the Australian AFL (Aussie Rules) where the top-8 play-off, or the GAA NFL, where the top-4 play-off. It takes a while to get used to though. In Australia, the winner of the league gets a title called the Minor Premeirship, but the winner of the following play-offs gets the Grand Premiership title, which is the main one. They dont have a cup competition though, apart from a pre-season "training" cup that no-one takes seriously and where new players are tried out.

The suggestion about the young players is a good one, and all players from the english and scottish leagues that are let go, say at 21, could join into it. He also suggests the aged stars, which is one of the suggestions I made earlier. Each team could purchase an aged star. Their experience could also help develop the young players, the managers, etc, so it wont be a case of just their playing ability, which wont be up to much.


In terms of that guy who "has moved on" from supporting Cork, there will be people like that. That is a result of the marketing of the english premiership which has worked. But its not a case of *either* supporting a team in england OR a team in Cork. Its a case of setting up the LOI (which does not belong to eircom by the way!) so that the support base can follow both.

redspider

jubbly

i dont know about that top 8 finish play off thing. I think things are fine the way they are, having a seperate cup and all.

As for that fella who has "moved on". Well he is a bit of an idiot. Watching football on the tv or in the pub is not supporting your team. Either is making the trips over to the big games in England. Thats not supporting your team.

Supporters are people who go to as many games as they can. Even against crap opposition, who put themselves out in the winter. People who own season tickets etc etc...

He should at least have the intelligence to realise that he isnt a "supporter". He should admit he just follows football and is a liverpool fc consumer.

Big Ears

But he doesn't truly follow football either as a true football follower is able to see quality no matter what league or team its for/in .

por

From Today's Indo

Aussie plan can help Eircom League bounce back

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SOME day soon those very busy people in Genesis are going roll out their third report into Irish soccer.

Genesis III will be a white paper on the Eircom League and is expected to outline the path to success on and off the field for domestic football.

It will be interesting to see if they make any comparisons between soccer in Ireland and Australia because experiences 'down under' are very similar to those 'up here'.

Eighteen months ago the Australians took a long hard look at their national league and concluded that all was not well. It was facing intense competition in the domestic market from more dominant codes of football and while they had low television ratings for the domestic game there was high interest in television coverage of Champions League and Premiership soccer.

They also had low gates, low revenues and low wages with many clubs experiencing financial problems. Those same problems are replicated within the Eircom League and when Genesis deliver in the coming days we going to find out if Irish soccer has the balls to tackle them in the same forthright manner as the Australians.

They disbanded their domestic flagship, the National Soccer League, and launched the A-League, which kicked off four weeks ago. They have eight clubs, seven of which are based in separate Australian cities with the other in Auckland, New Zealand.

Each team has a squad of 20 players and a salary cap of $1.5m Australian dollars for 19 players, which is around €950,000. The other player is a marquee player who can be paid as much as the club can afford so Sydney were able to splash out €500,000 on Dwight Yorke to bring their salary spend to just under €1.5m. They signed an exclusive television deal with a cable sports channel, attracted a blue chip sponsor in Hyundai and ran a television commercial aimed at youth in Australia and New Zealand.

Their target audiences are the 16 to 24-year-olds as well as old soccer supporters from the defunct National Soccer League and families. The campaign worked as the opening weekend saw a cumulative attendance in excess of 70,000 at the four games and although this figure dropped by week four it was still at 46,605 which represents an average of 11,000 per game and is very much in line with their projections.

Here in Ireland some clubs in the Eircom League Premier Division have annual payrolls of between €1m and €2m and are only attracting ten per cent of the average Australian gate.

At the recent "Money, Marketing and Media" seminar organised by the Eircom League, Professor Bill Gerrard of Leeds University Business School presented the A-League as a case study for the delegates to consider and then made several suggestions.

He proposed the introduction of a salary cap in the Eircom League and suggested that the marquee principle could also be used to attract popular veteran Irish stars back home or sign highly skilful players who can pull in the crowds.

Although the average weekly attendance of 12,000 is up six per cent on last season it's only quarter the size of the A-League and it is probably costing more per spectator than Australia. Gerrard suggests the introduction of Championship play-offs to make the league title race more exciting and increase attendances.

The Australians have been radical and innovative in a bid to save their domestic game and the Eircom League may soon find that they have no choice but to follow suit.

I agree with the they have done in Aus by dis-banding the old league and setting up clubs with a greater geographical spread. As I have stated on the thread before there are too many teams in Dublin and the East coast.

MrJoeSoap

No way. Getting rid of Dublin clubs and/or mixing them with other Dublin clubs is not the answer.

por

MrJoeSoap wrote:

No way. Getting rid of Dublin clubs and/or mixing them with other Dublin clubs is not the answer.

I know it is hard for Dublin fans to get their heads around but I reckon it would work

9 teams in the league
1. North West (merge Finn harps/Derry City)
2. West (Galway\Sligo)
3. Limerick
4. Cork
5. Waterford
6. Athlone\Midlands
7. Dublin West
8. Dublin North
9. Dublin South.

All on an equal footing with salary cap etc. Have local based feeder team in places like Mayo, Clare, Kerry, Kildare etc.

It would result in a much more competitive league and get people like myself who have no interest in watching mid table Div 1 games that mean nothing.
I'd have no interest in the localish team where competing for title and Euro place each year.

MrJoeSoap

Can't wait to see what KdjaC and the lads have to say on this. I'm totally against.

Salary caps? Feeder teams? Do we live in the US?

por

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Can't wait to see what KdjaC and the lads have to say on this. I'm totally against.

Salary caps? Feeder teams? Do we live in the US?

No we don't live in the US but that does not mean we can't take ideas from them, did I mention that the teams would be FRANCHISES

Just bacause a league or competition is the way it is for years does not mean it has to stay that way.

I know this sort of thing will not go down with fans of existing clubs but if the league is to grow and prosper it may be a radical approcah that is needed.

As long as they don't put nicknames (Galway Tribe anyone ?) in the team names I don't mind

MrJoeSoap

por wrote:

did I mention that the teams would be FRANCHISES

Not so loud!! My freakin ears!!

applehunter

Maybe they could try something like that in Dublin.

IMO Dublin is the biggest problem for the Eircom league. And has been since the early 1970's. Back then attendences were slipping and the FAI stuck their heads in the sand.

Dublin is the problem

gimmick

applehunter wrote:

IMO Dublin is the biggest problem for the Eircom league. And has been since the early 1970's. Back then attendences were slipping and the FAI stuck their heads in the sand.

But at least some Dublin clubs are getting decent attendences. Shels/Bohs/SPA are all getting 1500 plus consistently. Look out further, Waterford have 3-400 these days, Longford have 800 on a good day, Likewise with Harps. Drogs get around the 1500 mark.

If it wasnt for the 2 Cities, the average would be about 1000 per match, but Cork City, as u know, get 4000-5000 per match and Derry are getting 3-3500.

To blame Dublin clubs is lazy.

applehunter

Waterford are bottom of the league and play in one of the worst stadiums in Ireland.

Has there been a Dublin club this season that has gotten an attendence over 4000/5000?

gimmick

Waterfords position shouldnt matter that much. Yes, its a crappy stadium, but probably the nicest stand in the league perversely.

As for your question, well, when was the last time any team other than Cork City got more than 5000 through their turnstiles for a league game? Pointless argument IMO. At least the Dublin teams have something of a decent core support, when even in bad times will still pull in more than Longford/Harps/Waterford even when they are doing well.

applehunter

Dublin teams should be getting 10,000 at their matches. :rolleyes: Dublin is the centre of soccer in Ireland.

Bohs barely get 1500 at their matches.