[Article] IRA still training recruits, says IMC

MT

IRA still training recruits, says IMC

Liam Clarke and Enda Leahy

THE latest report by the Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC) concludes that the IRA is still recruiting and training young people in the use of guns and bombs.

The report, to be laid before the Dail and Westminster on Tuesday, will warn of a continuing drift by paramilitary groups into crime and evaluate allegations of money laundering. It may comment on changes in the IRA leadership which have reduced input by Sinn Fein.

The IMC report, the fifth of its kind, was completed at the end of April. Its publication was delayed until after the British general election. It will deal with events between last November and April and will be scoured for clues as to how the IRA will respond to an appeal by Gerry Adams, the Sinn Fein president, for it to end all violent activity. A reply is expected next month.

Although there has been a dramatic fall-off in punishment attacks, the IMC report is said to warn of increasingly sophisticated IRA money laundering.

A special IMC report in February dealt with the Northern Bank robbery alone. It concluded that the IRA was responsible for the heist and that some Sinn Fein leaders sanctioned the theft. Since then gardai and the PSNI have uncovered fresh details of the laundering operation and have recovered
money in Cork that they believe was linked to the robbery.

The new report is said to conclude that the IRA has been laundering the money through a network of businesses and scams. It is also expected to censure the IRA and Sinn Fein for not doing all they could to solve the Robert McCartney murder, which was carried out by IRA members.

The IMC relies heavily on information from state agencies such as the garda, the PSNI and customs. However, it has a high level of access to intelligence and conducts an independent assessment to ensure that the information is accurate and has been correctly interpreted. The body has three intelligence experts among its members — Dick Kerr, a former CIA official, John Grieve, a former head of the London Metropolitan police anti-terrorism squad, and Joe Brosnan, a former secretary-general of the Department of Justice in Dublin. The fourth member is Lord Alderdice, former speaker of the Northern Ireland assembly.

The report reflects security concerns that the IRA remains “battle ready” and is continuing to train, recruit and target.

Last week a senior garda confirmed that Southern Command IRA members remained active. “The ceasefire may be the official position of the Provos but they haven’t disbanded,” he said. “We’d certainly be aware of some activity. People talk about them becoming an old boys’ club but there’s
no evidence of that. They still have access to a large amount of arms and Semtex and we’re very concerned about it.”

Garda intelligence shows that recruitment is particularly evident in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and the northeast.

Briefings from the gardai this year led Michael McDowell, the justice minister, to say that the IRA was turning itself into a lightly armed enforcement wing for a revolutionary political movement “through violent and criminal means”.

Sunday Times (22/05/05)

This was from Sunday but the report has now been published and can be found at:

IMC

Above all else, what’s clear from this report is that Gerry Adams takes us all for fools. Since his electioneering ploy… sorry, earnest and heartfelt appeal to the IRA to consider an end to the armed struggle Republicans have regularly dropped hints that the armed wing had taken this ‘plea’ seriously and a positive response was highly likely. Well, this review doesn’t half drive a coach and horses through those claims.

Would an organisation that was really preparing to go out of business recruit and train young people to intimidate, target and kill, etc? Surely, these eager youngsters are being mislead into wasting valuable years training to be terrorists when there’s apparently no future in it. Wouldn’t the helpful community workers in the local peace and justice voluntary organisation – or the ‘Ra to you and me – be better off directing young men in their areas towards a productive life in the world of real work. Work that involves earning a living and not terrorising the area by dishing out violent punishment beatings or murdering innocent men outside pubs.

Or is it the case that good old, peace lovin’ Gerry and Marty have no intention of calling an end to their armed wing’s reign of violence. Were the conveniently timed deliberations on the need for a solely peaceful strategy merely a ruse to allow the useful idiots to cry ‘told you so, Gerry’s a man of peace’? Now that the votes have been bagged is it business as usual? For it seems that the IRA does an awful lot of business these days – all at the taxpayers’ expense. It would be interesting to know just how many hospital wings could have been furnished with the tax lost to the government through their black market trade? It’s no wonder Mary Lou can casually demand an increase in corporation tax – her colleagues in the smuggling division will never pay a cent of it.

Of course, Sinn Fein have predictably rubbished this report on the grounds of a securocrat conspiracy or some other fabled beast from the paranoid provo persecution complex. However, if this is the case and the IMC’s intention was to damage the Republican Movement, why wait until after the election? If this is all a conspiracy, why not take the opportunity to exact maximum damage by publishing this during the campaign? No, the time worn allegation of secret British plots doesn’t really add up on this occasion. And another thing that fails to add up is why, if there’s absolutely no connection whatsoever between SF and the IRA, is there so much outrage and fury from the former at the contents of this review? Surely they protest too much?

A Dub in Glasgo

MT wrote:

This was from Sunday but the report has now been published and can be found at:

IMC

Above all else, what’s clear from this report is that Gerry Adams takes us all for fools. Since his electioneering ploy… sorry, earnest and heartfelt appeal to the IRA to consider an end to the armed struggle Republicans have regularly dropped hints that the armed wing had taken this ‘plea’ seriously and a positive response was highly likely. Well, this review doesn’t half drive a coach and horses through those claims.

A review is a past tense affair, you are surmising on future affairs

Would an organisation that was really preparing to go out of business recruit and train young people to intimidate, target and kill, etc? Surely, these eager youngsters are being mislead into wasting valuable years training to be terrorists when there’s apparently no future in it. Wouldn’t the helpful community workers in the local peace and justice voluntary organisation – or the ‘Ra to you and me – be better off directing young men in their areas towards a productive life in the world of real work. Work that involves earning a living and not terrorising the area by dishing out violent punishment beatings or murdering innocent men outside pubs.

The majority of those punishment beatings are carried out by the forgotten ones (certainly fogotten by your good self).

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/story/20286/

Or is it the case that good old, peace lovin’ Gerry and Marty have no intention of calling an end to their armed wing’s reign of violence. Were the conveniently timed deliberations on the need for a solely peaceful strategy merely a ruse to allow the useful idiots to cry ‘told you so, Gerry’s a man of peace’? Now that the votes have been bagged is it business as usual? For it seems that the IRA does an awful lot of business these days – all at the taxpayers’ expense. It would be interesting to know just how many hospital wings could have been furnished with the tax lost to the government through their black market trade? It’s no wonder Mary Lou can casually demand an increase in corporation tax – her colleagues in the smuggling division will never pay a cent of it.

Reminds me of Syndrome from The Incredibles 'You caught me monloguing'! Are you sure you do not want to throw in a reference to Aengus Ó Snodaigh? He seems to be well liked and always gets a mention.

No, the time worn allegation of secret British plots doesn’t really add up on this occasion.

You mean it adds up on other occasions? Like the bugging of SF offices (that was in the news today), the Castlereagh breakin? The murder of Ludlow? The Dublin/Monaghan Bombings?

And another thing that fails to add up is why, if there’s absolutely no connection whatsoever between SF and the IRA, is there so much outrage and fury from the former at the contents of this review? Surely they protest too much?

Maybe they can see the wood from the trees?

Rock Climber

SF's Aurthur Morgan was on Vincent Browne last night.He was very bad like.
Vincent kept asking him would he approve or disapprove if the IRA were still recruiting and training.He would only say that such activity would be obsolete, to roars of laughter and derision from the normally republican friendly Browne.
Obsolete you see means, ah it's something thats not needed anymore but doesn't imply either disapproval or that it shouldnt be happening.

He went on to cast doubt on the background of those on the IMC, their pedigree.
Those in the studio asked him what right he had to criticise the cv's of those on the IMC. At least they werent involved in criminal activity like he was ... That took the wind from his sails.

It's little wonder he doesnt disapprove of IRA training and recruiting,when he's pretty much open about how he feels to the British Irish parliamentary body.

jman0

Well MT..

Being the case that the so-called "Independant Monitoring Commission" is not part of the GFA I'm not willing to give them too much attention.
It's entirely your prejogative to do so, and so seems the irish government.
However this is entirely outside the GFA, which is not questioned.
That being said perhaps you, or they need reminding that the IRA nor any other paramilitaries agreed to disband.
What they IRA did agree, was to call a cessation of mililtary operations, they've also decommissioned some weapons 3x already; this has been accomplished in the context of the overall implementation of the Agreement.

Nuttzz

jman0 wrote:

Well MT..

Being the case that the so-called "Independant Monitoring Commission" is not part of the GFA I'm not willing to give them too much attention.
It's entirely your prejogative to do so, and so seems the irish government.
However this is entirely outside the GFA, which is not questioned.
That being said perhaps you, or they need reminding that the IRA nor any other paramilitaries agreed to disband.
What they IRA did agree, was to call a cessation of mililtary operations, they've also decommissioned some weapons 3x already; this has been accomplished in the context of the overall implementation of the Agreement.

so if they have stopped all "military" operations and decommissioned loads of weapons, why to they feel the need to stick about?

I was under the belief that the root of the GFA was about removing all paramilatries from NI, if the IRA want to adhere to the GFA perhaps they should "stand down"?

jman0

Nuttzz wrote:

so if they have stopped all "military" operations and decommissioned loads of weapons, why to they feel the need to stick about?

I guess they've learned a few things from history.

Nuttzz wrote:

I was under the belief that the root of the GFA was about removing all paramilatries from NI, if the IRA want to adhere to the GFA perhaps they should "stand down"?

I was under the belief that the root of the GFA was about reaching accomodation between nationalist and unionist communities, eliminate the democratic deficit which is Direct Rule and try another bout of NI self governance in what is clearly a failed statelet. Getting paramilitaries to disarm is a part of that process, albiet aspirational. Unfortunately the IRA are the only ones to embark such a process.
The GFA is about showing or making "politics work". They are not doing a particularly good job of it these few years.

Nuttzz

jman0 wrote:

The GFA is about showing or making "politics work". They are not doing a particularly good job of it these few years.

So they cant work together? The irish government is wasting its time with north. I wonder if we could get the British Army to dig up those border roads again.....

axer

The IRA have not agreed to disband yet so why are people so surprised to hear that they have weapons and are still recruiting?

jesus_thats_gre

Agree with the above. I disapprove of the IRA's existence in the present day as much as anyone but they have not committed to dispanding. Why is it a surprise them that they would still be recruiting.

They were caught with their trousers down after previous ceasefires broke down and they have obviously learned their lessons. As you know, these ceasefires seriously hampered the operational effectiveness of the IRA when they wanted to restart their campaign. By continuing to train, finance and recruit, they are sending out a very clear message to both goverments.

They are making blatantly clear that they still exist and intend to have a say in the future of Northern Ireland one way or the other. If they simply dissappear, Sinn Fein would be given no creadance by either the British or Irish goverments and would cease to exist.

You could argue that there is no room for violence (I would agree) but it is what has really gotten them this far. It won't bring them any further however.

Apologies if that is not to coherent, have not slept for 36 hours

AmenToThat

Nuttzz wrote:

So they cant work together? The irish government is wasting its time with north. I wonder if we could get the British Army to dig up those border roads again.....

Lets do that, it was such a success over the previous thirty years lets go down that road again..........

Mighty_Mouse

Nice rant. But I still don't see how the IMC is relevant to the GFA.

Vincent kept asking him would he approve or disapprove if the IRA were still recruiting and training.He would only say that such activity would be obsolete, to roars of laughter and derision from the normally republican friendly Browne.Obsolete you see means, ah it's something thats not needed anymore but doesn't imply either disapproval or that it shouldnt be happening.

But it's not needed any more!!

Hate to be the one to break it to you but the only reason the IRA is not active is because republicans view the armed struggle as "obsolete".

Why would Sinn Fein castigate the IRA for something they in principle agree with?

normally republican friendly Browne

is he? What do you mean by republican friendly?

Boggle

Would an organisation that was really preparing to go out of business recruit and train young people to intimidate, target and kill, etc?

Who said they were preparing? They certainly didn't. They were willing to go out of business but unwilling to provide photographic propaganda to the unionists. Had the need for a photo been dropped then they would be already gone...

Nuttzz

AmenToThat wrote:

Lets do that, it was such a success over the previous thirty years lets go down that road again..........

There was very little trouble down south, face it most southerners have no interest in the North. The Brits can keep it for all I care

jman0

Nuttzz wrote:

There was very little trouble down south, face it most southerners have no interest in the North. The Brits can keep it for all I care

There is a lot of interest in the north. Why else would you be willing to post on this message board if you weren't interested?

Nuttzz

I'll willing to discuss the reasons for my disinterest in the north.... most of my friends couldnt give a monkeys what happens up there so long as it doesnt affect us down hear.

axer

Nuttzz wrote:

There was very little trouble down south, face it most southerners have no interest in the North. The Brits can keep it for all I care

I disagree. I dont think you can speak for all people from the freestate. I, and most I know do have an interest in what happens in the north. Thats why it is always on RTE & TV3 news and the papers.

Nuttzz

free state???? What is this free state you think of?

I and most I know have Northern Irelanditus...different circles, different attitudes, i suppose.

mycroft

axer wrote:

The IRA have not agreed to disband yet so why are people so surprised to hear that they have weapons and are still recruiting?

Because a terrorist organisation that is supposed to be on ceasefire on the verge of disbanding should not be still gathering weapons and recruiting foot soldiers?

In 1999 FBI agents in Florida arrested gunrunners supplying handguns for the IRA in the north. The IRA wanted the hand guns for clean, untraceable weapons, for use in punishment shootings.

The fact they are still technically on a war front, lets us know that it wasn't just a photo op that was the only stumbling block towards a peace agreement in Decemeber

oscarBravo

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

They were caught with their trousers down after previous ceasefires broke down and they have obviously learned their lessons. As you know, these ceasefires seriously hampered the operational effectiveness of the IRA when they wanted to restart their campaign. By continuing to train, finance and recruit, they are sending out a very clear message to both goverments.

And that message is - in case we haven't already got it loud and clear - they haven't gone away you know.

There's a lot of posturing from some of the posters here about how the IRA would have quietly disarmed, disbanded and gone home by now if it wasn't for those pesky unionists and their cameras. That view is utterly and completely inconsistent with an organisation that is actively recruiting and training.

They are making blatantly clear that they still exist and intend to have a say in the future of Northern Ireland one way or the other.

No, not "one way or the other" - just the one way.

If they simply dissappear, Sinn Fein would be given no creadance by either the British or Irish goverments and would cease to exist.

If Sinn Féin's only claim to credibility is the veiled threat of armed force, maybe they don't deserve to exist.

You could argue that there is no room for violence (I would agree) but it is what has really gotten them this far.

This far down what path? There is an assumption that only terrorism can acheive political change, and that such change as has been acheived was acheived through murder and mayhem. Who's to say the changes wouldn't have been much more far-reaching and permanent in the absence of Republican violence?

oscarBravo

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

But it's not needed any more!!

So, why is it actively recruiting and training?

Hate to be the one to break it to you but the only reason the IRA is not active is because republicans view the armed struggle as "obsolete".

So why does the IRA still exist at all, never mind actively recruiting and training?

cdebru

Who cares what the IMC say

Independent my arse

mycroft

cdebru wrote:

Who cares what the IMC say

Independent my arse

Lots of people care, not least of which the governments, who have a larger "mandate" than SF.

Care to provide specific examples of where the IMC have compromised their independence?

I care, I care if a recognised body is worried about a terrorist organisation is still recruiting. Out of curiousity, if another body, recognised, and published a report to this effect would it bother you then? I'm just trying to figure out if its the source or their claims that bother you. If there was independent varification of continued IRA recruitment would it bother you?

axer

mycroft wrote:

If there was independent varification of continued IRA recruitment would it bother you?

The independant witnessing of decommisioning by the IRA was not enough verification for the DUP.

mycroft wrote:

Because a terrorist organisation that is supposed to be on ceasefire on the verge of disbanding should not be still gathering weapons and recruiting foot soldiers?

Recruiting and even gathering weapons does not mean they are not on a ceasefire. The IRA did not say they were on the verge of disbanding - they are on a ceasefire.

mycroft wrote:

Care to provide specific examples of where the IMC have compromised their independence?

Considering the IMC bases its decisions on reports from the PSNI, the British Army & the securocrats who continue to dictate the British government's attitude and action on the peace process. The pretence of it making recommendations to the two Governments is an undemocratic political farce.

Why does the commission recommend financial penalties against Sinn Fein considering they (IMC) accept that sinn fein are not in a position to actual control the IRA in any way?

I suppose the DUP have no problem with the independancy of the commission - indepedancy....hmm...how come they had a problem with an independant witness to decommissioning of IRA weapons and "needed" photos for proof?

I think the IRA will disband - I hope they do, it should have happened along time ago, but this type of bull is only going to drag it out further.

mycroft

axer wrote:

The independant witnessing of decommisioning by the IRA was not enough verification for the DUP.

And apparently the IRA didn't have the slightest interest in decommisioning, seeing as they were planning another robbery while peace talks stalled.

Recruiting and even gathering weapons does not mean they are not on a ceasefire. The IRA did not say they were on the verge of disbanding - they are on a ceasefire.

On a recent thread (which btw you claimed you'd return to round about now, but haven't) you claimed to think the IRA outlived their purpose, now you're claiming they have the right to continue to recruit and arm.

You've just said above, that the IRA were on about to decommission and now you're saying less than a breath later, they weren't about to disband. Which is which?

And I'm sorry call me nuts any terrorist group thats gearing up, buying guns and recruiting isn't on ceasefire. Its a ceasefire, not a time out, you don't use a ceasefire as a chance to tool up and train recruits. It goes aganist the principle of a ceasefire.

Considering the IMC bases its decisions on reports from the PSNI, the British Army & the securocrats who continue to dictate the British government's attitude and action on the peace process. The pretence of it making recommendations to the two Governments is an undemocratic political farce.

We'll take this on three fronts;

One you've got the security services who apparently rule british thought making recommendations to the IMC, who then make the "pretence" of recommendations. So basically you're saying the decommisioning process is a farce. Which makes a mockery of your first point on this reply.

Two. Wheres your proof of this assertion?

Three. What would you rather happen? The IMC develop it's own totally undemocractic security service? And spying system? From scratch? Um how?

Why does the commission recommend financial penalties against Sinn Fein considering they (IMC) accept that sinn fein are not in a position to actual control the IRA in any way?

Wheres the proof of the above? Furthermore you've mocked the IMC's impartiality earlier in this thread and now you're supporting their accusations and assertions?

I suppose the unionists have no problem with the independancy of the commission - indepedancy....hmm...how come they had a problem with an independant witness to decommissioning of IRA weapons and "needed" photos for proof?

And I'm not Paisley or in the DUP, however IRA actions over the past few months tends to give credence to their attitude

I think the IRA will disband - I hope they do, it should have happened along time ago, but this type of bull is only going to drag it out further.

And what about IRA bull?

I'm fascinated by someone who claims not to support the IRA or their current campaign but then feels like supporting it at the drop of a hat.

Villain

Just an FYI but that article "Since then gardai and the PSNI have uncovered fresh details of the laundering operation and have recovered
money in Cork that they believe was linked to the robbery."

I heard another news report last week that the Gardai now believe the money found in Cork was NOT linked to the Northern Bank robbery. So the only money that has been recovered from the robbery was that found in the toilets of a PSNI Country Club

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

I heard another news report last week that the Gardai now believe the money found in Cork was NOT linked to the Northern Bank robbery.

Have you a link to that?
I found this from the Irish times (mar 29)

IRA buying property with bank raid money


The IRA is using untraceable money stolen from the Northern Bank robbery last December to buy properties for cash in the United Kingdom, the Government believes. Mark Hennessy and Conor Lally report.

The £26.5 million was quickly broken up into "five or six parcels" in the days after the December 20th raid to help the IRA in its effort to "launder" the banknotes.

They believe each parcel was to be laundered separately. The property-buying operation went into action shortly after the bank raid, a senior Irish political source told The Irish Times.

"They are finding properties and then using frontmen to buy them and sign for the deeds," the source said.

In a bid to evade the UK's anti-money laundering legislation, the IRA has concentrated its efforts on cash-strapped property owners who need to sell quickly.

The laundering legislation requires estate agents and others to declare all transactions over £10,000 to the Financial Intelligence Division of the National Criminal Intelligence Service.

The NCIS in 2003 was told of 100,000 such transactions and this number is understood to have increased rapidly since, particularly after the laundering legislation was further tightened in March 2004.

Meanwhile, the IRA also managed to launder a significant element of the bank haul at the four-day Cheltenham races, where up to £1.5 million was bet on each of the races.

The focus of the investigation - which involves the Criminal Assets Bureau and the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation - has now broadened considerably as gardaí try to identify businesses around the country which may have been used to launder the money.

Convinced that a number of these companies have been used to launder IRA money, one senior Garda source said existing legislation was "all over the place" with some financial sector companies, including many which offer loans to borrowers unable to obtain them from banks and building societies, facing little or no regulation.

Investigators have identified a substantial number of these companies and each one will be examined closely by gardaí in coming months.

In February gardaí found £2.3 million at a house in Farran, Co Cork, owned by Ted Cunningham, who runs a money lending company, Chesterton Finance.

He was arrested, but later released without charge.

They also discovered a man burning a large amount of sterling banknotes in a back garden in Passage West, Co Cork.

Investigating detectives believe the money was linked to the Northern Bank raid in Belfast.

The Cork properties were searched as part of a Garda follow-up operation into suspected IRA money laundering after three men were arrested at Heuston Station, Dublin, on February 16th.

One of the men had travelled from Cork and was handing over a box containing £54,000 to the two other men, who are from the North, when gardaí moved in and arrested them.

Detectives believe that the IRA had intended to launder some €10 million through a company in Munster, but that the Garda raids in Cork in February derailed the plan.

And meanwhile ...

Maybe its all just IRA bashing ...?

jman0

Rock Climber wrote:

Maybe its all just IRA bashing ...?

"In February gardaí found £2.3 million at a house in Farran, Co Cork, owned by Ted Cunningham, who runs a money lending company, Chesterton Finance.
He was arrested, but later released without charge."

That pretty much sums it up.
The rest of the article sounds like wild speculation and conspiracy.

Villain

I'll try and find it rock climber, I remember someone mentioning it on the Last word a week or two ago.

IMO the Gardai don't want to admit that money wasn't from the robbery, if that money was from the robbery I would have expected a few more arrests tbh.

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

And meanwhile ...

Ah the good old protection of parliamentary privilege, say what you like and nobody can touch you.

Villain

Sorry Rock Climber can't find any links that you would find acceptable, some might like to read here and here though.

Appartnetly the The Economist, pg 33, Feb 26th 2005 printed:

The police at first suggested that some of the money had come from the Northern Bank, but all the cash seized is now known to have been used in legitimate transactions

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

Lots of people care, not least of which the governments, who have a larger "mandate" than SF.

Care to provide specific examples of where the IMC have compromised their independence?

I care, I care if a recognised body is worried about a terrorist organisation is still recruiting. Out of curiousity, if another body, recognised, and published a report to this effect would it bother you then? I'm just trying to figure out if its the source or their claims that bother you. If there was independent varification of continued IRA recruitment would it bother you?

look at who is on the commision

A guy from the CIA
A guy from the London Met police
A guy from the Department of Justice in Dublin
and the former leader of the Alliance party for God sake the only thing independent about them is their name

they take their information from the PSNI MI5/6 British military intelligence and the Gardai hardly shocking that they come out with the reports they do


would it bother me as in would I lose sleep about it? no

I dont consider the IRA to be a threat to the Peace process

I would consider it pointless since a blind man on a galloping horse can see the PIRA has no future

But honestly I dont take anything it says seriously the IMC has no credibility as an independent monitor