[Article] IRA still training recruits, says IMC

jman0

One way i propose in determining the partiality of the IMC is to examine their reports. If we can count how many paragraphs or even words they attribute toward republican paramilitaries (RIRA, CIRA, PIRA, INLA) vs how many paragraphs or words attributed to Loyalists. I suspect the partiality of the IMC will be revealed.
It is generally accepted that Loyalist paramilitaries are engaging in more paramilitary activity then republicans (punishment beatings, killings, etc) this should therefore be reflected in their reports.
However i suspect that we'll find that the IMC dedicates more of their document to reporting Republican activity than Loyalist.

Trojan

jman0 wrote:

It is generally accepted that Loyalist paramilitaries are engaging in more paramilitary activity then republicans (punishment beatings, killings, etc) this should therefore be reflected in their reports.

Is it really? Have you got a source for this? Admittedly it's difficult to provide a source for that, but I'm interested that this is what people think, it's not the perception I've got from the last couple of years of news reports.

Rock Climber

jman0 wrote:

One way i propose in determining the partiality of the IMC is to examine their reports. If we can count how many paragraphs or even words they attribute toward republican paramilitaries (RIRA, CIRA, PIRA, INLA) vs how many paragraphs or words attributed to Loyalists. I suspect the partiality of the IMC will be revealed.

Thats a subjective analysis of what the IMC have been doing which is ironic considering that you are using it to claim bias.If you read their latest report.They deal with everybody,it seems well balanced, they're even kind to Sinn Féin in relation to the bit on the McCartney murder.

It is generally accepted that Loyalist paramilitaries are engaging in more paramilitary activity then republicans (punishment beatings, killings, etc) this should therefore be reflected in their reports.
However i suspect that we'll find that the IMC dedicates more of their document to reporting Republican activity than Loyalist.

Have the IMC recommended sanctions continue against loyalist parties linked to active paramilitaries supposedly on ceasefire or have they not?
Answer-they have

Rock Climber

Trojan wrote:

Is it really? Have you got a source for this? Admittedly it's difficult to provide a source for that, but I'm interested that this is what people think, it's not the perception I've got from the last couple of years of news reports.

Trojan , he is quite correct in that they have been more active in the recorded punishment beating arena and they have alledgedly had more killings(2 I think) It's in the report I linked to.

But he seems way behind in his criticism of all the other criminality linked to the IRA such as racketeering etc.
And of course,its doubtfull that Sinn Féin are going to sue... with regard to what I reported in this thread because its probably true, despite the fact that if it wasnt..., a sueable accusation against the Sinn Féin party appears plainly in black and white from the countries foremost and most respected crime journalist.

P O'Neill

Nuttzz wrote:

so if they have stopped all "military" operations and decommissioned loads of weapons, why to they feel the need to stick about?

I was under the belief that the root of the GFA was about removing all paramilatries from NI, if the IRA want to adhere to the GFA perhaps they should "stand down"?

In the November/December period in 2004 the IRA was on the verge of disbanding until unionists demanded photographic evidence. Many unionists denied that they(the photos) were going to be used to humiliate and criminalise the republican movement, however their real intentions were made clear after Paisley's 'sack cloth and ashes' comments. The DUP also demanded what they called 'accountability' in which they could basically veto anything that Sinn Fein could propose or wish to pass in the Assembly. This would pretty much mean a unionist parliament where nationalists would have no say and the north would be back where it was 30 years ago.
Also unionist drug gangs such as the UDA, UVF and others have not decommisioned a single bullet. Naturally many nationalist communities would feel defenceless if the IRA decomissioned and all the loyalist gangs remained.

oscarBravo

P O'Neill wrote:

In the November/December period in 2004 the IRA was on the verge of disbanding until unionists demanded photographic evidence.

I don't believe that was the case. Not for a minute. Apart from anything else, it's utterly inconsistent with this:

Also unionist drug gangs such as the UDA, UVF and others have not decommisioned a single bullet. Naturally many nationalist communities would feel defenceless if the IRA decomissioned and all the loyalist gangs remained.

So, you're telling us that late last year the IRA were prepared to disband, and leave the nationalist communities "defenseless". Then the unionists asked for proof of disbandment, and the lads decided that they suddenly cared about the defence of the communities again?

Sorry. Don't buy it.

Cork

oscarBravo wrote:

Sorry. Don't buy it.

You are not the only one.

7 years after the Good Friday Agreement - they still exist and remain active.

Their weapons will not be used as poker chips to win further concessions.

Denfence of Nationlists is an old chesnut. The business of the IRA is all about crime.

shltter

Rock Climber wrote:

Trojan , he is quite correct in that they have been more active in the recorded punishment beating arena and they have alledgedly had more killings(2 I think) It's in the report I linked to.

But he seems way behind in his criticism of all the other criminality linked to the IRA such as racketeering etc.
And of course,its doubtfull that Sinn Féin are going to sue... with regard to what I reported in this thread because its probably true, despite the fact that if it wasnt..., a sueable accusation against the Sinn Féin party appears plainly in black and white from the countries foremost and most respected crime journalist.

the report does not include the murder of lisa dorrian which was carried out by the LVF and apparently the killers are being protected by PSNI special branch who the killers work for as informants / drug dealers

they claim it is too early to say who was responsible for that murder despite the fact that this girl was murdered at the end of february and the dogs in the street know the LVF was responsible even david ervine has said that the LVF were responsible apparently there has been intimidation of witnesses etc

and yet the PSNI wont say that LVF members were involved and shock and horror either does the IMC


http://62.253.251.16/dailyireland/home.tvt?_ticket=3JBZVWKACK3SMLDEIOQNJQSEAOWO96RGUU4HIOSAFQUEDNNFJGSGX2LXVNNAD0UEEPKACK3AHDQFIR09ANZI9LLGLGSGX25T92&_scope=DailyIreland/Content/News&id=4599&_page=&opp=1

mycroft

shltter wrote:

the report does not include the murder of lisa dorrian which was carried out by the LVF and apparently the killers are being protected by PSNI special branch who the killers work for as informants / drug dealers

they claim it is too early to say who was responsible for that murder despite the fact that this girl was murdered at the end of february and the dogs in the street know the LVF was responsible even david ervine has said that the LVF were responsible apparently there has been intimidation of witnesses etc

and yet the PSNI wont say that LVF members were involved and shock and horror either does the IMC


http://62.253.251.16/dailyireland/home.tvt?_ticket=3JBZVWKACK3SMLDEIOQNJQSEAOWO96RGUU4HIOSAFQUEDNNFJGSGX2LXVNNAD0UEEPKACK3AHDQFIR09ANZI9LLGLGSGX25T92&_scope=DailyIreland/Content/News&id=4599&_page=&opp=1

I do so love this, rubbishing the source from one paper on one while using another scandal rag to give credence to another. The Daily Ireland is a provo rag and if you're going to use it as a source you should not pick at the Sunday World.

P O Neil wrote:

In the November/December period in 2004 the IRA was on the verge of disbanding until unionists demanded photographic evidence.

Really P cause on one of these threads another provo sympathiser claimed that they weren't on the verge of disbanding, and continued arming and training not to mention robberies would suggest otherwise.

One way i propose in determining the partiality of the IMC is to examine their reports. If we can count how many paragraphs or even words they attribute toward republican paramilitaries (RIRA, CIRA, PIRA, INLA) vs how many paragraphs or words attributed to Loyalists. I suspect the partiality of the IMC will be revealed.

Well why don't you go do that instead of implying and suggesting that it might reveal you to be right. You're making the assertion lets see if its accurate.

A Dub in Glasgo

mycroft wrote:

I do so love this, rubbishing the source from one paper on one while using another scandal rag to give credence to another. The Daily Ireland is a provo rag and if you're going to use it as a source you should not pick at the Sunday World.

Ach sure it is well known... the dogs in the street and all that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4562687.stm
http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/5574807
http://irishtribesman.blogspot.com/2005/05/lvf-shift-blame-on-lisa-dorrian-murder.html
http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=640500
http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=640501
http://atangledweb.typepad.com/weblog/2005/05/uvf_sickos.html
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/03/12/story193350.html

It is all there if you want to look

shltter

mycroft wrote:

I do so love this, rubbishing the source from one paper on one while using another scandal rag to give credence to another. The Daily Ireland is a provo rag and if you're going to use it as a source you should not pick at the Sunday World.

.

so what are you suggesting that Lisa dorrian was not murdered

that her family and david ervine and the provos are all in some big conspiracy together

I quoted the Daily Ireland because it is the Paper that i have read that has given the most coverage to this story


what element of the story do you not believe

personally I find Daily Ireland a very good paper it might not follow the neo unionist line you prefer but it is not a scandal rag as you put it

sceptre

What's a "neo unionist" and would I (should I, could I) be insulted if someone called me one? Is it a handy catchphrase that means nowt and achieves less in the discussion or is there an active difference between one and an old sheep-shagging unionist or whatever a traditional unionist (or indeed a traditional unionist line) might be? Are there neo-republicans of the Irish variety as opposed to US (or a neo-republican line) or just the old traditional or sheep-shagging republican variety? Would one have to live in the Irish Free State to be any of the above or use the phrase "Irish Free State" as a hilarious disparaging term to be allowed actually use any of the above? I know when I hear "neo-monetarists" I think of people who won't read and can't add, so might they all drink in the same country bar?

Off-topic I realise so if anyone could define any or all of the above in ten words or less I'd be happy. I accept PMs of the informative type.

A Dub in Glasgo

Surely Neo is a description for new or recent. A Neo-Unionist is a recent convert to the aims, ideas and policies of Unionists.

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Ach sure it is well known... the dogs in the street and all that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4562687.stm
http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/5574807
http://irishtribesman.blogspot.com/2005/05/lvf-shift-blame-on-lisa-dorrian-murder.html
http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=640500
http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=640501
http://atangledweb.typepad.com/weblog/2005/05/uvf_sickos.html
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/03/12/story193350.html

It is all there if you want to look

I wasn't disputing the story, I was just remarking on the attending irony of rubbishing of a source (sunday world) while touting another source of similar quality(daily ireland0.

Also

the report does not include the murder of lisa dorrian which was carried out by the LVF and apparently the killers are being protected by PSNI special branch who the killers work for as informants / drug dealers

none of the links mentioned by you backs up the 2nd and more serious half of the assertion that the psni are protecting them. Or the PSNI have an army of unionist drug dealers (the PSNI deal drugs?) working for them.

what element of the story do you not believe

personally I find Daily Ireland a very good paper it might not follow the neo unionist line you prefer but it is not a scandal rag as you put it

:rolleyes: any paper tha gives danny morrison editorials and splurges front page stories on "SDLP organised Mc Cartney trip" isn't worth the paper its printed on.

None of the articles posted by aDubinglas support the daily ireland's assertion that the accusers are being protected by the PSNI. While I don't dispute she died, or the UVF may have been responible you'll have to provide a more credible source than the daily ireland to convince me the PSNI are protecting the killers.

And "neo unionist" nice throw out a completely made up word that implies I support unionism, just because someone doesn't buy into Morrison's adled poisonous rantings, that doesnt make them a unionist.

shltter

mycroft wrote:

I wasn't disputing the story, I was just remarking on the attending irony of rubbishing of a source (sunday world) while touting another source of similar quality(daily ireland0.

where in my post did I say anything good bad or indifferent about the Sunday World
I suggest you buy Daily Ireland and read it yourself you obviously have not if you believe it to be comparable to the sunday world

mycroft wrote:

none of the links mentioned by you backs up the 2nd and more serious half of the assertion that the psni are protecting them. Or the PSNI have an army of unionist drug dealers (the PSNI deal drugs?) working for them.

not the PSNI the PSNI special branch

mycroft wrote:

:rolleyes: any paper tha gives danny morrison editorials and splurges front page stories on "SDLP organised Mc Cartney trip" isn't worth the paper its printed on.

MOrrison writes comment pieces for daily Ireland as he does for many papers

the SDLP story was true whats the problem

mycroft wrote:

None of the articles posted by aDubinglas support the daily ireland's assertion that the accusers are being protected by the PSNI. While I don't dispute she died, or the UVF may have been responible you'll have to provide a more credible source than the daily ireland to convince me the PSNI are protecting the killers.

You obviously did not read the article there is no suggestion that the UVF had anything to do with lisa dorrians murder it was the LVF

mycroft wrote:

And "neo unionist" nice throw out a completely made up word that implies I support unionism, just because someone doesn't buy into Morrison's adled poisonous rantings, that doesnt make them a unionist.

It is not a made up word I suggest you google it you will find loads of references to neo unionism and I dont think just because someone does not like morrison or his writings that makes them a neo unionist

BTW Damien Kiberd father aidan troy patricia mc kenna jude collins tom mcgurk also write columns in the paper it is not just morrison

mycroft

shltter wrote:

where in my post did I say anything good bad or indifferent about the Sunday World
I suggest you buy Daily Ireland and read it yourself you obviously have not if you believe it to be comparable to the sunday world

On post three or four of the Sunday world thread you're suggesting SF should sue, both articles are of similar tone and quality (anonymous sources) one is written by a highly regarded crime writer the other in a provo rag, and you believe one and not the other.

not the PSNI the PSNI special branch

So you are claiming the PSNI special branch has an army of drug dealers they're protecting?

the SDLP story was true whats the problem

Oh FFS. The Daily Ireland alledged that the SDLP had organised the mc cartney trip, when in the body of the story, it revealed that a SDLP member had arranged a line of credit at a travel agency and a former SDLP member had given them the lend of some phones in Washington. This led to the daily Ireland emblazing across its front page "SDLP organised Mc Cartney trip"

You obviously did not read the article there is no suggestion that the UVF had anything to do with lisa dorrians murder it was the LVF

You do make this too easy

Both the Ulster Volunteer Force and the Red Hand Commando claim to have been "investigating" her disappearance.

from this one
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4562687.stm

Doesn't change the fact than none of the articles support your assertion the PSNI are protecting the killers

It is not a made up word I suggest you google it you will find loads of references to neo unionism and I dont think just because someone does not like morrison or his writings that makes them a neo unionist

A) Then why did you call me one

don't wave me in the direction of google to do your research for you.

BTW Damien Kiberd father aidan troy patricia mc kenna jude collins tom mcgurk also write columns in the paper it is not just morrison

And Robert Fisk's column regularly appear in the Indo doesn't mean he sees eye to eye with O'Reilly and the papers stance.

jman0

Well mycroft since the SDLP didn't sue DailyIreland for a retraction, that means the story is true. :rolleyes:

Notes jman0's line of reasoning for future reference....

jman0

Earthman wrote:

Notes jman0's line of reasoning for future reference....

I think you realise it was said tongue-in-cheek

mycroft

jman0 wrote:

Well mycroft since the SDLP didn't sue DailyIreland for a retraction, that means the story is true. :rolleyes:

And if the SDLP and the PSNI sued every time the daily ireland published this kind of baseless accusation, their lawyers would be doing little less.

We can assume the Daily Ireland will settle out of court with large amounts of NI bank notes. :rolleyes:

jman0

mycroft wrote:

And if the SDLP and the PSNI sued every time the daily ireland published this kind of baseless accusation, their lawyers would be doing little less.

We can assume the Daily Ireland will settle out of court with large amounts of NI bank notes. :rolleyes:

Hmm, never thought of that. Maybe they could rat on the SDLP after.