Bloody Pearse Street Traffic!

skywalker_208

Just checked out the traffic cam on Pearse Street... Its choca already! AGAIN.... christ!

Frank Spencer

Linky???

Corben Dallas

its a nightmare bottleneck. to make a one way system work like that they need to get rid of the traffic lights at teh end or make them 4minsoff 30secs on.

It just gets worse and worse and as soon as u get over teh bridge beside Tara street station it improves.

They should bring back teh left turn at teh end of Dawson street. Stupid diversion. get rid off.

The whole citys traffic going onto the quays/crossing Liffey is forced down Pearse street. Stupid Stupid Stupid.

skywalker_208

Heres the link Buck_Naked

http://www.dublincity.ie/living_in_the_city/getting_around/traffic_cameras/

I know wat you mean Corben Dallas - never any traffic on Gardiner St either.. its all Pearse St!!!

Frank Spencer

Thanks Skywalker!

skywalker_208

No Probs.

thats a handy one.. shows the bottom of Pearse St a the Garda Station and the camera in the middle at the junction at the chipper...

John R

Corben Dallas wrote:

They should bring back teh left turn at teh end of Dawson street. Stupid diversion. get rid off.

The whole citys traffic going onto the quays/crossing Liffey is forced down Pearse street. Stupid Stupid Stupid.

Not stupid at all. The reason for it is to give some priority to public transport. What's really needed at the end of Dawson St. is a camera to catch out all the **** who don't think they need to follow the rules.

Sarsfield

I believe (from the IT commercial property pages last week) that the intention is to 'revitalize' Pearse St in the coming years in conjunction with TCD.

The traffic element will involve the construction of Macken St bridge, which will become the main south-north crossing east of O'Connell St. Traffic will then be reduced (and restricted) along Pearse St, making it more people friendly.

This will not happen overnight, so in the meantime, I suggest you take the bus. That way you can turn left from Dawson St

murphaph

Yeah, the no right turn is a good idea to givesome priority to buses. Ultimately the whole stretch from Parnell Square to Stephen's Green via O'Connell Street/Westmoreland Street/College Green will all be pedestrianised according to DCC.

Manga

I think since they diverted traffic from O'Connell st onto more narrow streets coupled with blocking the access from Pearse St to College green that the traffic flow has been totally screwed.

The traffic controllers appear to believe that priority should be given to public transport. Unfortunately they have failed to understand that the public transport system is so inadequate that the majority of commuters who use their cars must continue to do so.

The traffic congestion is created on a deliberate basis either through the traffic controllers stupidity or anti private transport bias. As an example of bias take the following

1.roads are closed, confining traffic to fewer routes
2.roads are narrowed, restricting flow
3.Roads are not repaired, making progress slow and hazardous
roads get bumps, humps, pillows, tables, gates, and chicanes to cause delays
4.Ever more bus lanes and pedestrianisation schemes remove road space
roads get arbitrary and unnecessarily slow speed limits to hinder progress
cars are deliberately 'gated' at traffic lights, to cause delays to motorists
5.Road digging by various agencies is still badly co-ordinated
6.Road re-engineering is given low priority

Our motor taxes pay their wages and the private car is the only feasible mode of transport for the majority of commuters. We must have better. Private enterprise should be employed on an award basis to resolve traffic difficulties. It needs to be removed from the demonstrably failed various City Councils/ NRA civil servants.

Manga

skywalker_208

Have to agree with you there Manga... the car is the only feasible solution... However i drive for over 4 hours everyday and its getting worse.... so im gona try the bus for a while next week...

murphaph

There's no denying that public transport is dire here compared to other european capitals, however stating that the car is the only realistic mode for MOST people is a groundless assertion often made by people who haven't tried public transport in years. Bus lanes might be painful for motorists but there simply HAS to be an incentive to users of public transport or else more and more people will drive. The above sentiment applies to city centre bound commuters where there is virtually always a public transport option. Orbital journeys are a different story-anyone travelling Swords-Tallaght for example can justifiably claim there is no realistic alternative to the car at the moment.

Traffic

Manga without a number of the biases u list in your post the city centre would be an even more dangerous place for pedestrians

Victor

Manga wrote:

Whinge

OK, spend €5bn+ on giving these people cars, abolish the bus lanes and see how far you get. :rolleyes:

500,000 Dublin Bus Passengers
80,000+ DART Passengers
Cyclists
Motorcyclists
Pedestrians

Corben Dallas

Public transport should be below Cyclists in terms of Priority IMO

Look at it another way Bus commuters cost teh county money Car users Make millions for teh country every year.
**Bus Companys are heavily Givn susidised
**Car users Make Millions and prob pay for the health service in this county

We pay road tax and should be able to use the roads to teh fullest extent.

To JohnR and Sarsfield> learn to drive and become a valuble member of society

They should fire the Director of Transport in Dublin. (and probably give 6 months)
(no not in jail just 5hrs rush hour (<HA!) in traffic every day for 6 months)0

Victor

Corben Dallas wrote:

**Bus Companys are heavily Givn susidised
**Car users Make Millions and prob pay for the health service in this county

Not quite. Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus typically break even. The only money they get is to buy extra busses - capital investment.

A car orientated transport system only subsidises the car industry.

Moving bus passenger to cars congests traffic further, delaying everyone and costing society in lost productivity, lost leisure time and increased transport costs.

Moving car users (precious few of them are actually passengers) to busses (or trains or bikes) decongests traffic, allowing everyone a little more productivity (and income!!), increased leisure time and lower transport costs all within the same working day.

skywalker_208

what we need is a better public transport system for commuters.. ie. trains buses etc.. Meath has 2 or 3 roads going directly into Dublin .... no trains.. overcrowded and overpriced buses...

Dont know that much to comment on Kildare but i believe there are no trains that go near Lucan etc...

Louth has the Drogheda line so not too bad.. M1 runs on to the M50 carpark so thats out the window....

John R

Corben Dallas wrote:

Public transport should be below Cyclists in terms of Priority IMO

Look at it another way Bus commuters cost teh county money Car users Make millions for teh country every year.
**Bus Companys are heavily Givn susidised

No they are not, lowest subsidies in the whole of Europe.

Corben Dallas wrote:

**Car users Make Millions and prob pay for the health service in this county

They need to considering how much of the health service resources are used to treat victims of car crashes.

If you count up all the costs of our car-happy culture the revenue created falls far short of covering the costs.
All that oil revenue going abroad to UK/US oil companies is hardly a good thing for our economy either.

Corben Dallas wrote:

We pay road tax and should be able to use the roads to teh fullest extent.

You do already, congratulations. The result of your car eutopia: daily gridlock, fantastic.

Corben Dallas wrote:

To JohnR and Sarsfield> learn to drive and become a valuble member of society

Excellent piece of advice, I'll give it some thought when I go in for my compulsory medical to renew my licence.

John R

skywalker_208 wrote:

what we need is a better public transport system for commuters.. ie. trains buses etc.. Meath has 2 or 3 roads going directly into Dublin .... no trains.. overcrowded and overpriced buses...

So you are willing to pay extra tax to fund this then?

As for buses, the money needs to be spent on providing proper dedicated routes that by-pass the car jam on all our routes. We also need proper city centre space allocated for pick-up and set down rather than crowding as many stops as possible onto unsuitable narrow streets.

It doesn't matter how many more buses are put on the road or how cheap the fares are, as long as they have to compete with cars for roadspace they will be slow and unpopular.

Unfortunately we don't have the space to build new dedicated corridors so instead roads currently used by all traffic needs to be given over to public transport only.

skywalker_208

Why does this kind of discussion always go back to the "you willing to pay more tax" question...

How about the Luas... u ever seen a bigger waste of taxpayers money?

Hmmm how will we beat traffic congestion in the city... oh i know.. lets put stick a couple of train lines in.... ON THE ROADS... christ!

vibe666

well, as someone who has lived, worked and visited many different countries throughout my life and who been using dublin public transport for 3 years in several different jobs, I can quite honestly state that dublin has the worst public transport systems I've ever seen.

so much so that I just bought a car because it was taking me over 3 hours a day to get from my home near merrion sq. to work near blanch and home again, including my waiting times for buses.

I'm now doing the same journey in 35 minutes each way, even having to come down pearse st.

2 hours a day saved and in my little 1.3 fiesta it's not actually costing me much more to be on the road, if you take into account the times i'm off up/down the country visiting family or have to get a taxi to and from places buses just don't go.

add to that my g/f learning to drive for her job, and the cost of driving lessons and it's the only realistic option we have.

jman0

I always picture commuting/transport solutions to be large undergound car parks located on the outskirts, for long distance motorists. Who would park their car for the day, then hop on a bus/tram/bike and enter a predominately pedestrianised and cycle-friendly city.
Can you image how much cleaner and quieter the place would be?

Andrew Duffy

How about the Luas... u ever seen a bigger waste of taxpayers money?

Hmmm how will we beat traffic congestion in the city... oh i know.. lets put stick a couple of train lines in.... ON THE ROADS... christ!

1. Luas is carrying 20 million passengers per year.
2. About 80% of the system was built on non-road alignments such as the former Harcourt St - Bray train line, the former Grand Canal alignment to James Gate, the N7 central reservation and greenfield land west of the M50.
3. Luas is part of a public transport system for the city, not a means to beat traffic congestion. A means to beat traffic congestion would be congestion charging.

jlang

vibe666 wrote:

so much so that I just bought a car because it was taking me over 3 hours a day to get from my home near merrion sq. to work near blanch and home again, including my waiting times for buses.

Just be thankful you don't live beyond Blanch and have to get the bus into town - if you take a look at the route of the 39 on the map, you'd think it was designed by a toddler drawing taking a line for a walk with a crayon. It doubles back on itself so much it can take over an hour to get to Blanchardstown village from Clonsilla village (only about 2 miles if you went straight)! Luckily there's the train, but that doesn't suit everyone.

skywalker_208

jman0 wrote:

I always picture commuting/transport solutions to be large undergound car parks located on the outskirts, for long distance motorists. Who would park their car for the day, then hop on a bus/tram/bike and enter a predominately pedestrianised and cycle-friendly city.
Can you image how much cleaner and quieter the place would be?

I would use this... One before finglas, one before blanch... half the cars off these roads...

Andrew Duffy wrote:

2. About 80% of the system was built on non-road alignments .........A means to beat traffic congestion would be congestion charging.

What about the traffic lights and addition to traffic light signal cycles as well as waiting times?

A traffic congestion charge would force more people onto an already failing public transport system - bad to worse....

John R

skywalker_208 wrote:

Why does this kind of discussion always go back to the "you willing to pay more tax" question...

How about the Luas... u ever seen a bigger waste of taxpayers money?

Hmmm how will we beat traffic congestion in the city... oh i know.. lets put stick a couple of train lines in.... ON THE ROADS... christ!

The typical Dublin motorist's attitude to the LUAS:

"That tram thing will be great, I'll be able to drive my car in and out of the city quicker while everybody else uses it"

And now:

"What a waste, the traffic is still as bad as ever, I can't drive any quicker"

Try and figure out the faulty logic in that.

The people who USE the tram aren't affected by the congestion.

John R

skywalker_208 wrote:

What about the traffic lights and addition to traffic light signal cycles as well as waiting times?

1 tram = 150+ people approx
1 car = 1.2 people approx

How many cars would go through a junction in the time taken up by a tram?

10, 20, 30? A lot less anyway. so now less CARS can go through the junction but more PEOPLE.

skywalker_208 wrote:

A traffic congestion charge would force more people onto an already failing public transport system - bad to worse....

Q: Why is the public transport system "failing"?
A: Because there are not enough commuter train lines to cover the city and the bus service is slow and unpredictable.

Q: Why is the bus service slow and unpredictable?
A: Because the city and suburban streets are choked with traffic so the buses are unable to provide a fast service.

Q: But if we remove all the cars from the roads won't the bus service get worse as all the car drivers are forced onto already full buses?
A: No. Without all the traffic jams caused by the cars the bus service would easily be able to run twice as quickly allowing the same number of buses cover twice as many journeys.

Q: But aren't the bus fares are too expensive?
A: If the operators could double the average speed twice the amount of revenue could be generated for the same cost, enabling lower fares or reduced subsidys and an increase in re-investment allowing a much needed expansion of services.

DubTony

jman0 wrote:

I always picture commuting/transport solutions to be large undergound car parks located on the outskirts, for long distance motorists. Who would park their car for the day, then hop on a bus/tram/bike and enter a predominately pedestrianised and cycle-friendly city.
Can you image how much cleaner and quieter the place would be?

It'd be lovely. 'cept they'd probably charge an arm and a leg for parking. But wait, that'd be a Park'n'Ride system, so they wouldn't charge anything for the parking.
I mean, surely no civilised society would charge somebody twice for using public transport !

skywalker_208

Ok John R you are obviously a public transport user but even if all the cars were taken off the road there is no way they would double the amount of buses and half the fares...

If anything there would be more demand so prices are more likely to stay the same or increase as they seem to do every so often....

jman0

DubTony wrote:

It'd be lovely. 'cept they'd probably charge an arm and a leg for parking. But wait, that'd be a Park'n'Ride system, so they wouldn't charge anything for the parking.
I mean, surely no civilised society would charge somebody twice for using public transport !

No, charge for the parking, ride any public transport for free.
The reason you'd have to charge for parking is because you'd get people trying to use the car parks for long term storage of their vehicles.

ando

Andrew Duffy wrote:

A means to beat traffic congestion would be congestion charging.

ouch, does anyone else quiver when they hear someone say that

skywalker_208

Yes I do!

no point in cars entering the city if you dont have another means of ferrying the public...

and theres no point comparing it to London because they have the Tube...

Macy

I would love to use a park and ride facility - unfortunately to get parked anywhere close to the dart station (not counting the charge), the time I'd have to leave is the same time I leave to do the drive in an hour (dart would be at least an hour and half, including drive, parking, waiting, journey).

Even if there were combined tickets for parking and darts/luas/buses that made it more cost effective, as well as a drastic increase in the amount of spaces available for Park & Ride. There's such demand from people wanting to use public transport in such a way, that you have to leave so early that it's not worth the effort.

BrianD

John R wrote:

Not stupid at all. The reason for it is to give some priority to public transport. What's really needed at the end of Dawson St. is a camera to catch out all the **** who don't think they need to follow the rules.

What is also needed is that the signs that say that all traffic must bear left onto Tara St. to be larger and positioned further down the street to give adequate notice to motorists. The signs currently erected are a waste of time and cause confusion to motorists that are not familiar with the route.

skywalker_208

Macy wrote:

I would love to use a park and ride facility .

Agreed - I would also love to use this....

Macy wrote:

There's such demand from people wanting to use public transport in such a way, that you have to leave so early that it's not worth the effort.

Agreed again... people dont want to be sitting on the same street for an hour but what choice do they have....

_Kaiser_

Here's my story...

I live in Blanch.. work in Shankhill...So, leaving at 7AM for a 9AM start...

- By Public Transport:
7:20 train from Coolmine to Pearse.
7:50 DART to Shankhill..
8:30 Shuttle bus to work.
ETA 8:40 - Journey time (incl waiting) 1 hr 40 Mins

- By Car:
7:00 drive via the park to town, and then out by Pearse St/N11
ETA Shankhill 7:40 (did this on Friday morning) - Journey time: 40 mins


Now, I have family that live in Coolock as well...so:

- Public Transport:
Bus #39/Train to town.. 25 mins-1 hr+ (depending on traffic if I bus it)
Bus #27 from Busaras/Connolly to Coolock.. 25-35 mins
Journey time: 1 hr 30 mins (or more)
Note: There is no direct bus route from Blanch - Coolock (closest is the 220 which only goes as far as Ballymun - generally only once an hour too - 17A from there to Northside SC. 27 the rest of the way).

- By Car:
Via Blanch/Finglas/Ballymun/Coolock... 30 Mins
Journey time: 30 mins (less if travelling on the M50)

Now naturally traffic conditions will vary depending on time of day. This is my average experience.
In addition, I dont have to stand all the way to town by car, I dont have to queue at unsheltered bus stops in the cold/rain and I dont have to listen to kids shoutin and carryin on at 8AM in the morning!

Couple of extra points:
- There is no LUAS to Blanch, Coolock or Shankhill
- There is no DART to Coolock or Blanch.
There is the Maynooth/Longford trains (again average 1 an hour after 6PM).

Soo.. all those who think Dublin's public transport is so good - which one makes more sense for me?? Both of these suburbs are large, fairly close to town and yet there's a HUGE difference in the journey times involved.

Zaph0d

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Soo.. all those who think Dublin's public transport is so good - which one makes more sense for me??

Nobody thinks Dublin's public transport is so good. Any rational person would drive when it is much more convenient. But it's not good for society if everyone chooses to drive.

I think you made a mistake and should have said 1:20 mins instead of 1:40 for your rail option. Your journey is about 40km and is one of the longest you can make in Dublin. I am surprised that it can be done in as little as an hour (station to station). If the Dublin Rail plan is implemented, this journey will be non-stop, so maybe 10 minutes faster.

What if you start your car journey at 7:20? How long would your car journey take then, compared to rail?

There may be a planning lesson here: why did DunLaoghaire council allow a large place of work to be built in Shankill that was not within a few hundred metres walk of the railway station in Shankill? Your story illustrates how traffic is generated by this kind of zoning decision.

Imagine a clean reliable comfortable direct frequent service train that stopped near your house and near your work. You can see that it would be better for the common good if you found it more convenient and cheaper to get a train than to drive. Every penny spent on improving roads between where you live and where you work makes this less likely.

_Kaiser_

I've used public transport for years now. Before I started in Shankhill, I worked here in Blanch (and commuted from Coolock).

When I was doing THAT, the journey was maybe 2 hours each way and 5/6 buses! I eventually moved out here and things were obviously much better, but getting into/out of town on the 39 was/is a nightmare!

Yes I agree that it'd be GREAT if we had a fully integrated transport system that was cheaper and more convienient than by car, but the sad truth is that this is Ireland, and in all the time I've been commuting, things have gotten worse, not better! (eg: the CitySwift brand - launched on the 27's and 39's - was hailed as the future of bus travel in Dublin. Soon thereafter the Cityswift buses turned up anywhere and everywhere, and the brand was effectively and quietly dropped in the last few years, abandoned now entirely with the current rebranding).

Somehow I just don't see that changing now. It's the same largely incompetent management and politicians making all the decisions - people who (as I mentioned in my post on another thread) probably haven't used public transport themselves in years!! Sure, there ARE good people there and they have I'm sure some very good and workable ideas, but by the time everyone else throws in their 2c, we end up with the shambles we have today!

_Kaiser_

I think you made a mistake and should have said 1:20 mins instead of 1:40 for your rail option.

No because its not the journey time alone you have to factor in. Its the queuing/waiting on the bus/train as well, plus the walk to get to the stop/station in the first place.

Victor

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I live in Blanch.. work in Shankhill

Move!

I presume you are working in Cherrywood, why not get a train to the city / southside and then get a 46C (few) or 7"c" bus direct to Cherrywood.

Victor

skywalker_208 wrote:

Ok John R you are obviously a public transport user but even if all the cars were taken off the road there is no way they would double the amount of buses and half the fares...

They wouldn't have to double the number of busses, simply because the existing fleet would be able to do many more round trips per hour / day.

If anything there would be more demand so prices are more likely to stay the same or increase as they seem to do every so often....

No the driver of the prices would be efficiency, which in turn could potentially be driven by some competition.

Macy wrote:

I would love to use a park and ride facility - unfortunately to get parked anywhere close to the dart station (not counting the charge), the time I'd have to leave is the same time I leave to do the drive in an hour (dart would be at least an hour and half, including drive, parking, waiting, journey).

And the time and cost running out to feed the parking meter?

penexpers

On my bike today, it took me less than 10 minutes to get from baggott st to the bottom of tara st (on the quays).

skywalker_208

Victor wrote:

which in turn could potentially be driven by some competition.

Now we all know even if ALL the cars were removed from the road the prices would not come down...

Anyway I have given up. getting the bus this week... much quicker than driving... even if it is a badly run organisation (Bus Eireann that is) Came across the online weekly ticket sales thing on their website so i bought a ticket.. you get 10% off - great i thought. All i have to do now is hand it to the bus driver.. handed it to the bus driver.. he looks at me as if i have 10 heads.. eventually gives up trying any tells me i will have to go to Busaras that evening coz his machine was not updated....

Ok says I... went to ticket office in Busaras.. Extremely unhelpful and unmannerly teenager tells me that "that tickeh cant be printed heare" as it can only be printed from the source.. ie. where your journey begins... so now i have to go out to the driver at Busaras and explain all this crap to him! but he eventually got it printed... (while saying in a pisstaking tone that it is a good job HE knows how to do his job)

hehe.. anyway thats my initial experience of public transport.. Apart from that its not too bad..

gurramok

And if they manage to put a ticket machine in Ashtown station instead of a bloke selling tickets just in weekday mornings before 9am, i'd use the train anytime while heading into town.
With regard to Pearse St, a dedicated bridge like the mentioned Macken St bridge as a flyover not enaging quays traffic could be a relief if it ever came to been !