Mc Cartney prime time

Villain

MT wrote:

My, my, the selective amnesia strikes again. Let’s see. To begin with, the party and Alex Maskey played the entire thing down hoping that it would all blow over. They entirely abdicated their responsibility in one of their fiefdoms to see that murderous thugs were brought to justice. Then when the focus did fall on Sinn Fein did they attempt to make amends by encouraging co-operation with the police? Oh no. Instead, they instructed witnesses to speak to a lawyer or a priest knowing full well this would be of little help to the investigation. Then, it turns out a number of prospective SF electoral candidates had been in the bar and despite many weeks having passed still hadn’t provided an account of what took place to the relevant authorities.

Sinn Fein asked people to go to what authority they felt comfortable with, if you knew anything about the nationalists community in the north you would know they don't trust the PSNI. I don't expect you to understand that but I would have thought you might at least accept it. As for the Sinn Fein Candiidate she said she didn't see anything how can you be sure she did??

MT wrote:

At this stage any party with even a shred of decency or concern for the family would have reprimanded these party hopefuls for their wanton disregard for the relatives plight, but did SF. Of course not. And of course their contempt for the sisters was further demonstrated with Marty ‘peace and justice’ McGuinness’s threat over the sisters courageous campaign to do right by their brother. To top it all, when the family has a chance of gaining substantial compensation through a civil suit, Sinn Fein refused to back the motion in the European Parliament providing funding for the case.

Martin McGuinness urged the McCartney family to stay out of party politics, saying they could risk losing popular support for their campaign. Which imo is a valid point. Sinn Fein wanted to ammend the motion that is why they voted against it.

MT wrote:

Throw in the whispering campaign against the sisters – even the apologists on this board know full well who started that – and the cunningly bemused queries by several republicans with regards funding for the McCartney sisters, ie. them traitors is in the pay a the Brit bastards, and other smears about their brother’s and their own characters and the movement had mounted a full on hatchet job. And had this took place in the mid 90’s, that hatchet job would have been a lot more literal.

Any evidence at all here or you just making this up??

MT wrote:

Furthermore, not only did Sinn Fein attempt to thwart the investigation by ‘discouraging’ witness statements, they then tried to undermine the credibility of the investigating officers in the minds of those in the community by spreading wild conspiracy theories about deliberate police inactivity. Clever tactic, I’ll admit. Just when some witness may have overcome their fear of the local ‘peace and justice campaigners’ and decided to aid the inquiry it never hurts to sprinkle a few seeds of doubt. ‘Remember, we’re the real victims here, this is all an evil PSNI conspiracy to damage our struggle for human rights.’ ‘Oh, and that McCartney fúcker was asking for it, sure he had the cheek to make gestures at the TV.’ Heaven knows, given the ‘Ra boys concern for gestures at the TV the BBC will soon be employing their services as licence inspectors.

Has the PSNI not questioned Mr Devine can he not give some evidence that could be used to charge someone?

MT wrote:

Finally, there’s the little matter of Sinn Fein being the political wing of the IRA. Whatever the latter gets up to is no doubt agreed, covered up, aided, etc. by the entire organisation.

In total, Sinn Fein’s behaviour in this squalid affair has been nothing short of disgusting. In many ways, all the more so as they hypocritically claim to care for the human rights of those in the very communities they subject to this type of jackboot thugery. They were seen for what they are by the MEPs in the European parliament and similarly those of us not taken in by their mawkish and dishonest howls of victimhood see them for the slithering monsters they really are. The words of Sean O’Casey still ring true today, ‘no one can suffer enough for the republican project, least of all the innocent.’

So why did the majority of nationalists vote for Sinn Fein I mean if everything you said is true the majority of nationalists must be deluded!

mycroft

irish1 wrote:

Sinn Fein asked people to go to what authority they felt comfortable with, if you knew anything about the nationalists community in the north you would know they don't trust the PSNI. I don't expect you to understand that but I would have thought you might at least accept it. As for the Sinn Fein Candiidate she said she didn't see anything how can you be sure she did??

Ah the tardis toilets in the bar, sure everyone was in them.

Not only did she not see anything, she didn't even mention she was in the bar when first interviewed by RTE on the subject.

As for don't trust the PSNI, well I'm sorry you can trot out that tired line again and again, and the simple fact is going to the PSNI can be dangerous for many, "whatever you say, say nothing"

Martin McGuinness urged the McCartney family to stay out of party politics, saying they could risk losing popular support for their campaign. Which imo is a valid point. Sinn Fein wanted to ammend the motion that is why they voted against it.

Christ did you know the word gullible isn't in the dictionary?Mc Guinness has the best interests of the family at heart, and the SF MEPs just wanted a wee amendment. Catch yourself on. :rolleyes:

Any evidence at all here or you just making this up??

Would you like a list of murdered "touts"?

Has the PSNI not questioned Mr Devine can he not give some evidence that could be used to charge someone?

Ah yes the lack of arrests is due to the fact that the guy beaten to within an inch of his life hasn't given a good statement, not the SF candiate who was idly sitting at the bar with her eyes shut going LA LA LA LA while it was happening.

So why did the majority of nationalists vote for Sinn Fein I mean if everything you said is true the majority of nationalists must be deluded!

Because nth ireland politics is more complex and more tribal than we've feared.

I do so love the dismisal of MT as somone who can write intelligent long accurate posts on the subject that you disagree with as "Pailsy-ite", and "DUP", instant, if you're not with us you're aganist us mentality.

Villain

mycroft wrote:

I do so love the dismisal of MT as somone who can write intelligent long accurate posts on the subject that you disagree with as "Pailsy-ite", and "DUP", instant, if you're not with us you're aganist us mentality.

I didn't say that.

bonkey

irish1 wrote:

So why did the majority of nationalists vote for Sinn Fein I mean if everything you said is true the majority of nationalists must be deluded!

So you're countering by suggesting that popular decisions simply cannot be wrong?

jc

Villain

bonkey wrote:

So you're countering by suggesting that popular decisions simply cannot be wrong?

jc

No Bonkey but i don't believe the majority of Nationalists would vote for a party if they were as bad as MT makes out. Remember those who voted for them actually live in the North and have to put up the issues on a daily basis. They could be all mad and deluded and have no sense of right or wrong but i seriously doubt it.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

So why did the majority of nationalists vote for Sinn Fein I mean if everything you said is true the majority of nationalists must be deluded!

SF does not represent the majority of nationalists on this island.

Sinn Fein asked people to go to what authority they felt comfortable with,

SF are hypocritical. They stand in british elections but cannot bring themselves to support the police. They see no problems retaining links to the IRA.

As the largest nationalist party in the North, What have they done apart from the meaningless and hollow statements?

Rock Climber

Cork wrote:

SF does not represent the majority of nationalists on this island.

Thats quite correct,they represent a pretty tiny minority of them.
If they just talk about those in the North as nationalists, well they are being partitionist...


Assuming elections are representative, and that parties in the 26 counties are not unionist and are in fact patriotic and nationalust etc(I dont think any of them have said otherwise)
Then 88% of 4 million people are nationalists who dont vote for Sinn Féin which is about 3,5 million people that dont vote for them.
Add in then say 10% for the SDLP of 1.5 million in the North and you have 3.6 million people
Versus and lets be generous 30% of 1.5 million northerners, thats 450,000

So say out of a total of 4.05M nationalists on the island

Ergo Sinn Féin represent roughly 11.1 % of nationalists as a whole on this island.

QED (and pretty tiny really)

Off course this is all off topic,I promise to go back on topic now

jman0

jman0 wrote:

It's no biggie irish1 if you haven't read all MT's post.
Just take a glance at how long it is and you can be sure it's a hate-filled anti-SF rant of the most Paisely-ite variety.

Given that this is a you don't have to read it to know whats in it statement,this is an attack on the poster and not on the post.

Banned for 2 weeks

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

Thats quite correct,they represent a pretty tiny minority of them.
If they just talk about those in the North as nationalists, well they are being partitionist...


Assuming elections are representative, and that parties in the 26 counties are not unionist and are in fact patriotic and nationalust etc(I dont think any of them have said otherwise)
Then 88% of 4 million people are nationalists who dont vote for Sinn Féin which is about 3,5 million people that dont vote for them.
Add in then say 10% for the SDLP of 1.5 million in the North and you have 3.6 million people
Versus and lets be generous 30% of 1.5 million northerners, thats 450,000

So say out of a total of 4.05M nationalists on the island

Ergo Sinn Féin represent roughly 11.1 % of nationalists as a whole on this island.

QED (and pretty tiny really)

Off course this is all off topic,I promise to go back on topic now

How many of them know whats really going on in the north though??

bonkey

irish1 wrote:

How many of them know whats really going on in the north though??

Ah, so when you said "a majority of nationalists", what you meant was "the majority of those who live in the North, know whats really going on, and are nationalist to boot".

Interestingly...I'd say relatively few people in the North know whats really going on in the North. Perhaps a few more than in the Republic, but not significantly. The rest mightn't be as uninformed, but to suggest that living in the North means you have some objective insight into whats really going on stretches credulity.

It sounds like the classic situation where those who are too involved to be properly objective criticise those who aren't for not knowing enough to be properly informed.

jc

Villain

Well I think any nationalists that have lived in Northern Ireland for the past years will know a hell of a more about the day to day troubles than people who live down south.

It sounds more like the classic situation of people from far ignoring what people choose and just saying "ah they don't really know whats going on I mean just read the papers down here". IMO some people think they can understand the problems in the north by reading a few papers every week and believing every word written.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

It sounds more like the classic situation of people from far ignoring what people choose and just saying "ah they don't really know whats going on I mean just read the papers down here". IMO some people think they can understand the problems in the north by reading a few papers every week and believing every word written.

There may well be a similar percentage of people in the south who are nationalists,who love their 26 county country as there is a percentage of Irish people in the North who arent nationalist but couldnt give a toss about the south.
Different reasons similar sentiments.

I can assure you there is nothing wrong with my sense of right and wrong and I think you would better off avoiding such remarks about posters as the mods here have banned users for simalar comments.

While we are at it, could I again ask you to leave the moderating here to the moderators of this board.You won't be asked any more.


Now back on topic folks

Sand

Sinn Fein asked people to go to what authority they felt comfortable with, if you knew anything about the nationalists community in the north you would know they don't trust the PSNI. I don't expect you to understand that but I would have thought you might at least accept it. As for the Sinn Fein Candiidate she said she didn't see anything how can you be sure she did??

Groogan claimed in her statement that she had seen nothing, heard nothing, and if anything had happened, she had left before it. This was the template SF/IRA statement. If they simply werent picking a point on the wall and ignoring questions until the PSNI told them to stop wasting their time - whereupon SF/IRA would shout how the PSNI were turning witnesses away.

(Un)Fortunately she was caught out when CTV footage showed her taxi arriving to pick her up from the same bar *after* McCartney was killed. Shes a liar, and her statement is a pack of lies, just like all the other SF/IRA statements. This is common knowledge. Its also common knowledge that the Mccartneys named 6 SF/IRA people to Adams who they believed were involved in the murder. Adams suspended 7 SF/IRA members. How come Adams knew more than the family about who was involved in McCartneys murder?

Either way it doesnt matter - SF/IRA are well aware they could rape children live on air and theyd still get votes from the warped mindsets that exist in that corner of the UK.

How many of them know whats really going on in the north though??

Id reckon 88.9% of them, going by Rock Climbers figures.

A Dub in Glasgo

Rock Climber wrote:

Thats quite correct,they represent a pretty tiny minority of them.
If they just talk about those in the North as nationalists, well they are being partitionist...


Assuming elections are representative, and that parties in the 26 counties are not unionist and are in fact patriotic and nationalust etc(I dont think any of them have said otherwise)
Then 88% of 4 million people are nationalists who dont vote for Sinn Féin which is about 3,5 million people that dont vote for them.
Add in then say 10% for the SDLP of 1.5 million in the North and you have 3.6 million people
Versus and lets be generous 30% of 1.5 million northerners, thats 450,000

So say out of a total of 4.05M nationalists on the island

Ergo Sinn Féin represent roughly 11.1 % of nationalists as a whole on this island.

QED (and pretty tiny really)

Off course this is all off topic,I promise to go back on topic now

Interesting piece by Finian McGrath TD. I think it is a huge assumption to say that the parties in the Republic are Naionalist in outlook. It almost seems they are ashamed of our history.

TD tells congress it’s not easy talking unity in Dáil

It is not easy to raise Irish unity issues in the Dáil, independent TD Finian McGrath told delegates at the Irish National Congress annual general meeting in Dublin.

Mr McGrath said many politicians and political journalists thought the debate about Irish unity and nationalism was over. “I challenge them but we get hammered. When you get up to talk about Connolly, Emmet or the Six Counties, they want to take you out,” he said. The TD blamed the mainstream political parties and the political media for the state of affairs. He called it the “two- nation disease” and said a “partition mentality” had infected Dublin’s political and media elite.

As a stark example of the problem, Mr McGrath described an informal evening with a group of fellow TDs from all parties. After a long day of parliamentary debate, they went out to unwind and began arguing about who was the best Irish sports figure in history. “When someone brought up George Best, he was dismissed by the group with comments such as ‘He’s not Irish’, ‘He’s from the North’.”

Despite facing this kind of attitude, Mr McGrath has refused to be discouraged. “That’s the mindset out there that we have to confront and take head-on.” Mr McGrath pointed out that the problem was not limited to the Dublin elite. “Many young people who visit the Dáil on school trips don’t know about recent events or about Irish culture and history,” he said.
When the independent TD questioned them, “they know about canals and waterways but the number of kids who don’t know about Connolly, Emmet, Tone or Pearse is shocking,” he said.

Mr McGrath said the fault lay not with young people but with a failure in their education. This can be blamed on textbooks that reflect “20 years of two-nation revision which must be overcome,” he said.

Artist and political activist Robert Ballagh dealt directly with the same problem in his speech to the congress meeting. He announced that he was writing and would soon complete a new illustrated textbook about Irish history and culture aimed at young people. Mr Ballagh described his personal motivation for the project. “My son overheard a discussion of plans to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the Easter Rising and asked me what it was about, so I asked him what he knew about it.”

To Ballagh’s great astonishment, his son replied that all he knew was that “something happened in O’Connell Street”. Mr Ballagh went on to also criticise the media and politicians for the current stalemate in the North.
“They have created an atmosphere of only two actors in the drama — Sinn Féin and the DUP — which perfectly serves the interests of the British government. “That allows the British to portray themselves as the innocent party trying to keep apart warring tribes. Any notion that the British are neutral, just trying to help, is ridiculous,” said Mr Ballagh.
Also at the meeting was Mrs Sheila Kelly, the widow of Captain James Kelly, an acquitted defendant in the 1970 arms trial.

The Irish National Congress was founded in 1990 as an all-party non-sectarian organisation dedicated to working for Irish unity by peaceful means.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

How many of them know whats really going on in the north though??

I think that the media do a fair job in reporting the situation in the North.

Just as they did a fair job covering the McCartney murder and the subsequent cover up and intimidation.

Villain

Cork wrote:

I think that the media do a fair job in reporting the situation in the North.

Just as they did a fair job covering the McCartney murder and the subsequent cover up and intimidation.

Thats one isolated incident Cork, a truly tragic one but many many murders have occured up North and got very little media attention down South.

Sand

Mr McGrath said many politicians and political journalists thought the debate about Irish unity and nationalism was over. “I challenge them but we get hammered. When you get up to talk about Connolly, Emmet or the Six Counties, they want to take you out,” he said. The TD blamed the mainstream political parties and the political media for the state of affairs. He called it the “two- nation disease” and said a “partition mentality” had infected Dublin’s political and media elite.

Thats because theyre all DEAD.

And there are two nations. There is a border. Even SF/IRA was beaten badly enough that they have accepted it. Indeed when theyre not indulging their bigotry by criticising the SDLP for winning votes from the Protestant community, theyre criticising the SDLP for winning support from the Irish Republic.

A Dub in Glasgo

Sand wrote:

Either way it doesnt matter - SF/IRA are well aware they could rape children live on air and theyd still get votes from the warped mindsets that exist in that corner of the UK.

What melodrama... Do you think they could get a few converts in the 26 counties as well?

Cork

irish1 wrote:

Thats one isolated incident Cork, a truly tragic one but many many murders have occured up North and got very little media attention down South.

Many murders carried out by the IRA. I don't really believe murder is an isolated incident in the history of NI, niether is intimidation or cover ups.

Don't get me wrong. Human life is sacred. MURDER is wrong.

It is about time the McCartneys and other victims familys got justice? We could go on about Pat Funucine or how long the McConvilles had to wait to get the body of their mother. There were murders on all sides.

The only information the McCartney family seem to be getting are threats recently.

They deserve better.

Villain

Cork wrote:

Many murders carried out by the IRA. I don't really believe murder is an isolated incident in the history of NI, niether is intimidation or cover ups.

Don't get me wrong. Human life is sacred. MURDER is wrong.

It is about time the McCartneys and other victims familys got justice? We could go on about Pat Funucine or how long the McConvilles had to wait to get the body of their mother. There were murders on all sides.

The only information the McCartney family seem to be getting are threats recently.

They deserve better.

They certainly do Cork and I am fully supportive of their search for justice and have been since day 1.

Murders have been carried out and continue to be carried out by all sides, my point was that most of these don't get a mention in the press down south normally

George Best is a unionist though isn't he.
He'd be another one of these people who advocate the Ulster Scots/Northern Irish identity.
He'd be Irish period in my book but a British national or citizen by law of course and I've no truck with that or whatever he wants to claim himself as.
I remember reading a book by John Taylor(now Lord Kilcroney or some such) in the UCD library one evening and in it he claimed there was a different rock structure under the north than in the 26 counties.
I kid you not.
I'll split this off and we can discuss that over on the Science board if ye like

Now for the last time - stay on topic thanks.

mycroft

irish1 wrote:

I didn't say that.

That mean you don't have to reply to the rest of it?

MT

jman0 wrote:

MT while it's interesting and maybe progressive having (i presume) a DUP supporter posting on an irish message board, i think your monologues are just a wee bit OOT.
Perhaps you need reminding that the majorityof nationalists in NI support SF. Are you saying they are devoid of a sense of right and wrong?
When you denigrate that political party in such terms as you do, I believe you also denigrate the people that choose SF to represent them.

That’s hilarious, but if I were you I’d stick to apologising and forget about comedy. Careful too, once you start throwing smears around people might think you’ve lost the argument. Of course, smears are a favourite tactic of the Republican Movement. Just look at the whispering campaign initiated to disparage the McCartney sisters. Then there have been the sly and underhand insinuations about Robert McCartney’s character. So, it was only a matter of time before a republican labelled me a DUP supporter. It’s also illustrative of how they think. So warped is their outlook and entrenched into a zero sum mindset viewing everything connected with the North as a ‘them and us’ struggle that any critic of the party must be a unionist, Brit, etc. So arrogant has the republican movement become they’ve convinced themselves that they’re the only true patriots, the only ones with the right to call themselves Irish.

Hence, the epithets attached to opponents that highlight them as either un-Irish or anti-Irish. Critics are Free Staters, Brits, Securocrats, Covert unionists, West Brits and so on. Now we can add DUP supporters to that list.

The irony is that it is the critics of SF and the IRA that are the real patriots. They are the ones that want to save their country and democracy from a criminal conspiracy. They don’t want to live under the control of the local ‘Ra thug’s jackboot. Indeed, if anyone deserves to be castigated as anti-Irish it’s members of the Republican Movement.

As for what a majority of NI nationalists do, does popular support make something right? Furthermore, you’re dealing with the failed, sectarian society that is the North. Republicans never miss an opportunity to tell us that NI’s a failed state but yet strangely miss the logical precursor of this – that a state fails because of its society. This is the case in NI, where two ethno-religious tribes have reached a state of psychosis in their fear and loathing of each other. To them voting on socio-economic issues matters not a jot, it’s all about sectarian one-upmanship. Each has become consumed with the warped desire to screw over their neighbours. Paisley and Adams demonstrate in a nutshell how devoid of the norms of civilised democratic society people in the North have become. In the advanced, truly democratic and outward looking Irish Republic both men are now rightly viewed as pariahs. With their history, this would be the case in any other part of the democratic West.

But the democratic attitudes that prevail elsewhere hold no water in the societal basket case that is NI. Up here, the phrase that best sums up the failure of democracy is ‘they might be bastards, but they’re our bastards’. Paisley and Adams have done more to destroy life in the North than anyone else and yet because each is the champion of ussuns agin’ themuns they top the poll every time. There’s no longer any remnant of a concern for the advancement of the whole community. Instead, there’s just a visceral hatred of the ‘other’ and a determination to elect the shower most able to fúck over themuns the most. Hence, the electoral primacy of the criminal conspiracy that is Sinn Féin and the biblical theocrats in the DUP. I mean, in a similar vein to what Sand said earlier, Paisley and Adams could confess to ongoing child molestation and they’d still top the poll in their constituencies. Why? Because NI is a failed society that has no understanding of democracy. ‘He might be a child molester, but he’s our child molester… and anyway that Paisley/Adams bastard is just as bad’, would be all the rationalisation needed by most in the North’s lunatic asylum.

And to think some people want to incorporate Northern Europe’s equivalent of Kosovo into one of the West’s most successful democracies. Wonders will never cease. Or maybe they’d like to see the Irish Republic contaminated with the sectarian mindset that has destroyed democracy in NI. Wouldn’t surprise me as their party is the other side of the same coin as the DUP when it comes to inter-religious suspicion. They are the sort of ethnic entrepreneurs that belong in the 17th century, not the 21st. The DUP and Sinn Féin might well rant and rave about their ‘mandates’ but these ‘mandates’ weren’t forged in a democratic society.

mycroft

irish1 wrote:

They certainly do Cork and I am fully supportive of their search for justice and have been since day 1.

Murders have been carried out and continue to be carried out by all sides, my point was that most of these don't get a mention in the press down south normally

Again the qualified response from the republican supporters, the

"I fully support the search for justice for these brave sisters yadda yadda yadda, but the other side are much worse/still at it/and where are the police, until we have a proper police service people when are you just going to accept its the police's fault kneecappings actually happen (delete where appropriate) and what was that Devine fella doing anyway, I'm not saying what happened was right, now, but (insert innuendo and speculation about Mc Cartney/Devine) and those sisters are being manipulated by PSNI/Free State Parties/ Enemies of republicanism/the EU commission (delete as appropriate) and while I feel justice must be served but when will the southerns learn the, unionists are worse/the police service must be reformed/GFA agreement must be implimented (delete where appropriate ) before this sort of stuff stops."

Guys, feel free to cut and paste the above response it pretty much sums up any apologist for SF/IRA's response.

Villain

mycroft wrote:

Again the qualified response from the republican supporters, the

"I fully support the search for justice for these brave sisters yadda yadda yadda, but the other side are much worse/still at it/and where are the police, until we have a proper police service people when are you just going to accept its the police's fault kneecappings actually happen (delete where appropriate) and what was that Devine fella doing anyway, I'm not saying what happened was right, now, but (insert innuendo and speculation about Mc Cartney/Devine) and those sisters are being manipulated by PSNI/Free State Parties/ Enemies of republicanism/the EU commission (delete as appropriate) and while I feel justice must be served but when will the southerns learn the, unionists are worse/the police service must be reformed/GFA agreement must be implimented (delete where appropriate ) before this sort of stuff stops."

Guys, feel free to cut and paste the above response it pretty much sums up any apologist for SF/IRA's response.

Thats just a sweeping remark that doesn't reflect my position at all MyCroft, if you had bothered to read my posts on this situation you would know that.

bonkey

irish1 wrote:

Thats just a sweeping remark that doesn't reflect my position at all MT, if you had bothered to read my posts on this situation you would know that.

Ohh...analysis time...

"I fully support the search for justice for these brave sisters

Check.

but the other side are much worse/still at it/and where are the police

Check, on all three counts I believe.

, until we have a proper police service people when are you just going to accept its the police's fault kneecappings actually happen

Check - you've defended the witnesses not going to the police because they don't trust them.

and what was that Devine fella doing anyway,

Maybe not.

I'm not saying what happened was right, now, but

Check.

(insert innuendo and speculation about Mc Cartney/Devine)

Not sure. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you've never once questioned any of their motives.

and those sisters are being manipulated by PSNI/Free State Parties/ Enemies of republicanism/the EU commission (delete as appropriate)

Check - you've at least defended Sinn Feins "cautions" issued to the sisters that they were being, or in danger of being manipulated by such groups.

and while I feel justice must be served

Check.

but when will the southerns learn the, unionists are worse/the police service must be reformed/GFA agreement must be implimented (delete where appropriate ) before this sort of stuff stops.

Check, on at least two of the three options.

Seems to me like its spot on, with the exception of the comments regarding Devine's and the sisters' characters.

Or are you suggesting that you haven't made these specific arguments?

jc

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Thats just a sweeping remark that doesn't reflect my position at all MT, if you had bothered to read my posts on this situation you would know that.

That quote you replied to is not from MT,it's from mycroft.


In breaking news 2 people have been arrested,one in Belfast and the other in Birmingham,one is 36 and the other is 49.
Tommy Gorman who put together the reconstruction based on witnesses was on morning Ireland speaking about this.He also confirmed and these were his words, that the gang who killed Robert McCartney came back into the pub for the clean up saying "This is IRA business".

Going on that you would have to conclude that not alone were they looked upon as the IRA in the area at that time,they were making sure that the people in the pub were aware of that.It's the pandora's box I spoke about earlier in this thread.
Thats irrespective of any IRA action after the fact and much later to expell them.

Villain

bonkey wrote:

Ohh...analysis time...

"I fully support the search for justice for these brave sisters "

Check.

I certianly do

bonkey wrote:

"but the other side are much worse/still at it/and where are the police"
Check, on all three counts I believe.

I don't believe I have said anything about the side being worse in realtion to this murder and the only question I have asked of the PSNI is why they hadn't made arrests as surely Mr Devine should of beinga ble to give evidence, although possibly he can't remember due to the vicious assault he suffered

bonkey wrote:

"until we have a proper police service people when are you just going to accept its the police's fault kneecappings actually happen"
Check - you've defended the witnesses not going to the police because they don't trust them.

I didn't defend it at all I tried to explain why people aren't going to the police that is very different from defending them

bonkey wrote:

"and what was that Devine fella doing anyway"
Maybe not.

Most certianly not.

bonkey wrote:

"I'm not saying what happened was right, now, but"
Check.

I don't believe I ever used such a sentence

bonkey wrote:

"(insert innuendo and speculation about Mc Cartney/Devine)"
Not sure. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you've never once questioned any of their motives.

I most certianly have not

bonkey wrote:

"and those sisters are being manipulated by PSNI/Free State Parties/ Enemies of republicanism/the EU commission (delete as appropriate)"

Check - you've at least defended Sinn Feins "cautions" issued to the sisters that they were being, or in danger of being manipulated by such groups.

I said IMO they should be careful about getting involved in party politics as it won't help their case, that just my opinion.

bonkey wrote:

"and while I feel justice must be served"
Check.

Take out the while and you have "check"

bonkey wrote:

"but when will the southerns learn the, unionists are worse/the police service must be reformed/GFA agreement must be implimented (delete where appropriate ) before this sort of stuff stops"

Check, on at least two of the three options.

Yep, check on the police service must be reformed i.e. the paton report implemented and yesc check on the GFA agreement must be implemented including the full decommisioning of the IRA.

bonkey wrote:

Seems to me like its spot on, with the exception of the comments regarding Devine's and the sisters' characters.

Or are you suggesting that you haven't made these specific arguments?

jc

I think I have answered all the points but if there is anything you want my opinion on feel free to ask.

Sherlock

"I don't believe I have said anything about the side being worse in realtion to this murder and the only question I have asked of the PSNI is why they hadn't made arrests as surely Mr Devine should of beinga ble to give evidence, although possibly he can't remember due to the vicious assault he suffered"

I'd say he remembers exactly what happens but hes afraid of the consequences of giving evidence.

A Dub in Glasgo

Maybe Devine knows exactly what he saw and can pinpoint the attackers but the PSNI have told him 'Not just yet... we can spin this one out for a while more'. I have absolutely no evidence of whether this was said... like a lot in this thread and threads similar, I am merely speculating.

Anyway, good to see that arrests have finally been made. What are the chances that the people arrested are the ones publically named by the very famous 'justice' seeker Jim Allister? If so, what are the chances of a 'fair' trial? 'Fair' in the lowest form as it will be the Diplock system that will be used if these ever come to trial.