First Post - Homophobic Friends

Dedalus05

Hi,

Just found these forums today. Thought I'd say, er, Hello :rolleyes:


Don't wanna clog up the forums with introductions, so I figure I'd mention something thats has been on my mind.

I have a very close friend. We tell each other everything. The thing is this guy is straight, and quite homophobic. He has racist tendencies as well I think and struggles a bit with his biggoted tendencies

He knows I like to sleep with other men, and well sometimes he gets a bit uptight about it. He'll say something off-hand - sometimes joking, sometimes its hard to tell. I always pick him up on it, and tell him he is a moron. I have never had a problem speaking my mind, but I have a hard time drawing the line or getting mad at him (he is a mate).

My question is, how much casual homophobia do other people put up with from their straight friends?

D.

Hmm_Messiah

not sure i could have real friends who were really homophobic.
THere are mates who mess around, but much like I'd slag where they were from, or the crap team they supported.

Also some comments can be just away of diluting tensions and fear over somethign, your mate might at the moment be only able to acknowledge your liking guys by commenting inthat way.

Work mates here make comments, but they are clever/funny more than homophobiac.Though there are one or two where its far less innocent than that, but they are *** so who cares.

At end of the day though if you are an openminded guy etc and this guy is prejudiced in as many ways as u mention then you might need to just decide you can't get on so well with a guy like that, AND tell him, givinG HIM/YE a chance to get it right

magick

My question is, how much casual homophobia do other people put up with from their straight friends?

to be honest it depends on tolerence , im st8 , 2 of my friends are gay and have different levels of tolerence , if i make a gay homophobiac joke one will take it in good humour , the other will not. I think it depends on your level tolerence.

Dedalus05

Thanks for your reply HM. Its interesting what you say. I do sometimes think I detect a struggle going on in this guy. I don't think he is gay, but he is trying to resolve something in himself. He kind of sulks the words at me.

I have many friends whose views and beliefs I don't share. For example one friend of mine is a scientologist - something she is less reluctant to talk about than the most of the closeted gays I've ever met. And she reluctant because of the ignorance, prejudice and fear she has to confront (I guess daily). To my mind most religions have one tenet or another that is offensive; but if I don't equate a persons beliefs with their identity (even if they do) I'll have no problem making friends.

Anyway homophobia is not to my mind a valid point of view, it's more a set of prejudices; but fighting this biggotry, by being prejudiced towards the biggot is counter productive :cool: .

As you can guess, I don't really have a problem with my mate. All friends quabble. So unless I detect an intent to hurt I am not personally upset by his comments; but when I ignore a throwaway '****' I sometimes wonder if I am letting myself or the 'side' down.

Denis

This is fun. I think I have begining to resolve this

swiss

Dedalus05 wrote:

For example one friend of mine is a scientologist - something she is less reluctant to talk about than the most of the closeted gays I've ever met.

For good reason.

Scientology is not a religion, but a dangerous cult. Its teachings are not those with which I have issue, despite the fact that they are so implausible they plummet to the level of the downright loony and absurd. The organisation is the progeny of a pathological liar (link), and an organisation whose real goal is the attainment of power and consolidation of same, not spiritual advisement and enlightenment.

Ask your friend how she feels about psychiatrists, and see what reaction you get.

The website below should provide more information for you.
http://www.xenu.net/


All that aside, I don't know a gay person who hasn't experienced homophobia in some form or another, be it 'casual' as you put it - with the occasional joke or banter, or the more 'serious' which is characterised by an ingrained fear and loathing and can manifest itself as contempt, slurs and violence.

It sounds like your friend is skating the line between the two, maybe you should ask him exactly what he means by all this. Maybe it is all a joke, in which case you can take it however you like, whether that be as funny, offensive, concerning, flippant etc. If it isn't, you might want to reconsider your relationship with they guy. I tend to find that this level of homophobia says more about the persons opinion about themselves than their opinion about homosexuals in general.

Dedalus05

Hey Swiss,

Thanks for you reply. You response illustrates what I was trying to get at with regard to peoples reactions when this girl mentions her church. The links you posted are sites built by ex-scientologists. They will tell you they are uniquely qualified give an unbiased account of what is REALLY going on with Scientology. However, from where I am standing they might be the least reliable source. I don't buy the line 'I used to be a scientologist, but I am alright now'. These are people who are having a very public row with their former church. And interpreting the sh:t gullible people want to throw at other gullible people would just give me a headache.

Is Scientology a cult? Almost certainly, but by a definition which applies to all religious belief systems. Are some of their claims 'loony and absurd'? You got it, but.... well, you know where I could go with this Have some of their actions been criminal? Maybe (I don't know to be honest), but to my mind Pope Benedict XVI is a criminal .

I will ask her about psychiatry though, but it will likely highlight something else we have in common - a deep distrust of that profession. Whatever the outcome we will remain friends.

Lastly on this point - I won't reconsider a relationship with this guy I initially asked about because of what he believes. He is a good friend. He would never reconsider his relationship with me, and I suck c*ck!

To finish, I didn't want to make light of homophobia. The most that I have experienced would be the 'casual' homophobic phrases thrown around by straight men, and teenagers. In itself it is upsetting. But the contempt and violence which you refered to is not (and would never be) a factor in this relationship.

This very friend told me the story of the night he was working the ambulance and was called to an incident on Wexford Street. He was horrified when he found a young man who had just come out to his friends at his 21st Birthday Party. His friend's had beat him to a pulp.

D.

irishgayguy1981

HI I just read ur thread and its funny cos I had an experience this wknd... I was out with a friend of mine who i was very close to at one time and now i am not as close but still firends... Anyway we were drinking in the foggy dew, what i would consider a straight bar, well cos it is... anyway after a few hours and plenty of drink i said could we go to the front lounge for one... she freaked out, why should she have to go there when shes not going to meet anyone, why would she want to go to a bar full of gay men... For the first time it hit me, i felt like it was an attack on my sexuality... i had sat in a straight bar for hours without even thinking about it and bam I felt she was being homophobic... I haven't said this to anyone but after reading the thread I said no im not being paranoid... this is homophobic... because it offended me...

Boston

irishgayguy1981 wrote:

HI I just read ur thread and its funny cos I had an experience this wknd... I was out with a friend of mine who i was very close to at one time and now i am not as close but still firends... Anyway we were drinking in the foggy dew, what i would consider a straight bar, well cos it is... anyway after a few hours and plenty of drink i said could we go to the front lounge for one... she freaked out, why should she have to go there when shes not going to meet anyone, why would she want to go to a bar full of gay men... For the first time it hit me, i felt like it was an attack on my sexuality... i had sat in a straight bar for hours without even thinking about it and bam I felt she was being homophobic... I haven't said this to anyone but after reading the thread I said no im not being paranoid... this is homophobic... because it offended me...

Allot of straight people would feel uncomfortable in a gay bar. Especially straight men. To hazard a guess it is probably fear of being hit on. I don't know if that is homophobic. That said I can only think of one example where one of my friends wouldn't go to a gay bar, he didn't make a big deal about it, just said he was tired and it was late and he was going home. Your friend does sound very self centred though. Here she is expecting you to keep her company while she's out on the pull but when you ask to go to a bar where the clientele are more in keeping with what you like, there's a complete lack of empathy. Sounds to be like you're being treated like a fashion accessory. Personally I've never stood for that Bull****, and neither should you.

rsynnott

Well, me personally; absolutely none; I'd lose the friend. But each to his/her/its own.

irishgayguy1981

liouVille, thanks for reply, well I'm not sure if or why she would feel uncomfortable, but thinking back on our friendship in the past when we were much closer, and I was a lot more naive, and all the nights that we went out together during college, she never once set foot in a gay bar with me, when i was just out and needed it... See I think thats why I also had such a problem with last wknd cos its not the first time she has made me feel like going to a gay bar would be the last thing on earth any "normal" person would want to do... I'm getting more and more convinced she is homophobic and I am(WAS) just the exception, but clearly I'm not

Hmm_Messiah

ok this might be totally unrelated, if so just ignore me :0
just what was last posted struck a chord with me, in a different situation.

There is a woman Iwas once very close to and our friendship disintegrated, less calls, less going out etc etc. I decided mostly it as she was busy (she is rich and lives a VERY fast life, being out of the country more than in it etc etc). Then she texted few times and I was slow to answer. big silence followed, then I decdied to write a note (hate just dismissing friendships). In it I expalined was fed up being useful when she was at a loose end, but not a real friendship, but that Iw ould not presume to know why she was acting differently .

She wrote back asking to be friends again saying mostly the problem was my ex boyfriend/ ex flatmate. She never explained further, and I didn't ask. Recalling past times when we were close etc I got the idea her problem was that she had more feelings for me than I was aware of.

It definitely wasnt a gay thing as she would be a vistor to the G etc etc herself. Like I said somethign resonated with what you wrote but I could be way off.

Eitherways you are right. That you spend time with some one where they liek and they wouldnt go somewhere you are comfortable, just not on.

Boston

irishgayguy1981 wrote:

liouVille, thanks for reply, well I'm not sure if or why she would feel uncomfortable, but thinking back on our friendship in the past when we were much closer, and I was a lot more naive, and all the nights that we went out together during college, she never once set foot in a gay bar with me, when i was just out and needed it... See I think thats why I also had such a problem with last wknd cos its not the first time she has made me feel like going to a gay bar would be the last thing on earth any "normal" person would want to do... I'm getting more and more convinced she is homophobic and I am(WAS) just the exception, but clearly I'm not

Friendship is a two way thing, experience has thaught me the tough lesson that you don't need or want friends that won't be there when you need them. You know the situation best, but if someone making you feel bad for being around them cut them loose, protect yourself and your emotional well being. I wouldn't even advise having it out with her, just start going to gay bars yourself. Join your colleges LGB soc, or ask another friend. I know I said some people find it incomfortable, but theres equally as many straight people that love places like front louge, glitz, yello, gubu. Which are all excellent clubs in there own right.

Karl Hungus

Dedalus05 wrote:

Hi,

Just found these forums today. Thought I'd say, er, Hello :rolleyes:


Don't wanna clog up the forums with introductions, so I figure I'd mention something thats has been on my mind.

I have a very close friend. We tell each other everything. The thing is this guy is straight, and quite homophobic. He has racist tendencies as well I think and struggles a bit with his biggoted tendencies

He knows I like to sleep with other men, and well sometimes he gets a bit uptight about it. He'll say something off-hand - sometimes joking, sometimes its hard to tell. I always pick him up on it, and tell him he is a moron. I have never had a problem speaking my mind, but I have a hard time drawing the line or getting mad at him (he is a mate).

My question is, how much casual homophobia do other people put up with from their straight friends?

D.

Let me get this right. This guy is a very close friend, he knows you're gay, he's supposedly homophobic, yet he hasn't cut you loose as a friend? To be blunt I think you're reading too much into it and when he says something "Homophobic" it could just be a friendly poke in the ribs.

John Player

im sure you wouldnt accept "casual" racism so why should you accept "casual" homophobia?
2 different things i know, but both unacceptable!

segadreamcast

Well, I don't know 'John Player' - such jokes between friends would be merely that, jokes.

E.G. If a friend calls you... oh, let's say... a wanker, in jest... it doesn't offend you generally - whereas if a stranger calls you a wanker, it probably would. If we apply the same principle to a friend calling you gay, I think it works on the same principle - thus transcending the idea of homophobia and showing true comfort with the idea that you are gay simply BECAUSE they can joke about it.

However, a friend who CAN'T joke about it and feels the need to suppress the notion that you're gay is, in my view, possibly the one with a problem about your sexuality.