Couple of questions about LAN network

mp3guy

I want to setup a small network between 2 comps at home and share my BB connection. The router I have has an ethernet port and a USB port, and I'm told it'll work if I plug in one comp to ethernet and one into the USB port. A few questions:

Can I transfer files if the 2 comps are connected to the router this way?

Can I buy a cross-over cable, and use it to just connect the 2 comps directly, and have the broadband just connected to one comp, ie broadband coming through one pc to another?

Does a crossover cable work as a normal LAN as well?

preilly79

[QOUTE]
Can I transfer files if the 2 comps are connected to the router this way?[/QUOTE]

No, for a number of reasons:
1, one would be connected using USB, the other via a network cable, and the comms protocols used for each are totally different.
2, the modem is simply a modem, and not a switch/hub

Also i dont even know if the both pc's would work if both were connected to the modem at the same time. a simple routing table is built buy the modem when it is connected via ethernet, so it knows to route traffic to the ethernet port and onto the network, what would happen to the other pc connected via USB? i dont know!

Can I buy a cross-over cable, and use it to just connect the 2 comps directly, and have the broadband just connected to one comp, ie broadband coming through one pc to another?

yeah, you would do this, but that assumes you're going to have the Internet Connection Sharing pc turned on all the time, and if it breaks you're either buggered or have to configure ICS on the other. I.e. it's really messy.

Does a crossover cable work as a normal LAN as well?

i dont quite follow you here. you use a straight through cable when connecting dissimilar network components ... (pc to switch, switch to router, router to firewall etc) and you use a crossover when connecting similar items (router to router etc).

Here's your best bet:
go to maplins or komplett.ie or whatever, buy a really cheap 3com/netgear/linksys switch. plug the modem into that via the ethernet port. buy/or make, two network cables and plug both pc's into the switch also. tur on the modem i think it acts as a dhcp server out of the box, and away you go.

anything else, let me know dude!

fatherdougalmag

You need to tell us what type of 'router' you are talking about. Your router might just be a modem and may have no router function. So that's the first thing clear up for us.

MP3: Can I transfer files if the 2 comps are connected to the router this way?

PR: No, for a number of reasons:
1, one would be connected using USB, the other via a network cable, and the comms protocols used for each are totally different.

Not quite right. If indeed the device is a fully blown router, all communications between devices will take place via IP through the router. The devices will not communicate directly with each other.

go to maplins or komplett.ie or whatever, buy a really cheap 3com/netgear/linksys switch. plug the modem into that via the ethernet port. buy/or make, two network cables and plug both pc's into the switch also. tur on the modem i think it acts as a dhcp server out of the box, and away you go

A modem and a router are two different beasts. It is common to be confused because of the availability of combined broadband modem/router products out there. But we need to find out what this 'router' device is and then we can advise you properly.

I'm beginning to think that you have a modem. In that case, a switch will not suffice. A modem only serves one PC. You will need a router that offers NAT. NAT lets you share a public IP address across multiple hosts. Most routers have this functionality so you can't go far wrong. Just look for a wireless broadband router. Or if you have DSL, a wireless DSL router. There's a sticky in the broadband forum about what some people use. If you have an NTL cable modem then you need a broadband router. Don't get a switch. You'll just have to bring it back.

You could use a crossover cable between the two machines and set up Internet connection sharing. But, as preilly79 points out, your ICS server PC will need to be left on. Easiest thing to do is get a router.

The crossover, also, will let you copy files directly between PC's. A router will typically have multiple ethernet ports so you can connect both of your machines at the same time. Together with NAT on the router, this means both PC's will be able to access the Internet and copy files between each one. You'll need to install decent spyware detection, anti-adware, antivirus, firewall, etc.

mp3guy

Its a Creative Broadband Blaster DSL Router version 8133U

preilly79

fatherdougalmag wrote:

Not quite right. If indeed the device is a fully blown router, all communications between devices will take place via IP through the router. The devices will not communicate directly with each other.

IP over USB? yeah, that works really well please direct me to a page where i can buy a fully blown router that allows me hook up pc's via USB, that could be handy for my old lappy without a network card

it's early morning, but yeah you're right, i missed that it might just be a modem. like you, buy a cheapo wireless dsl router like a wrt54g which has a built in 4 port switch. you can pick up one of these for 80euro.

preilly79

mp3guy wrote:

Its a Creative Broadband Blaster DSL Router version 8133U

i just checked this one out and it allows connection sharing, i.e. it's a proper router. so like i said before, just hook it into a switch and away you go. well, it isnt that simple, you'll possibly have to set up ip addressing to get it configured at first but that's not too hard. if youneed any help with any of that let me know.

fatherdougalmag

IP over USB? yeah, that works really well please direct me to a page where i can buy a fully blown router that allows me hook up pc's via USB

What's so weird about that? If the router works as described and you can connect one machine to USB and another to ethernet, they will each received their own local IP address e.g. 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.3. (The router does support NAT). What's to stop you FTP'ing between these two?

Et voila, IP over USB!

mp3guy

So, i just need to ... buy nothing and just connect one with ethernet and one with usb?

fatherdougalmag

Well, certainly before shelling out for anything, give that a go. According to the specs it should be possible.

preilly79

fatherdougalmag wrote:

What's so weird about that? If the router works as described and you can connect one machine to USB and another to ethernet, they will each received their own local IP address e.g. 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.3. (The router does support NAT). What's to stop you FTP'ing between these two?

Et voila, IP over USB!

nope, the pc hooked up via usb will not get an ip address. why would it? if it was like we asumed, a modem with both ethernet and usb ports, and was connected to the pc via usb then it would appear to the OS as a directly connected modem, just like a standard WinModem. no NAT'ing would taken place in such a case as the pc would not get an ip address. it's just like plugging in a 56k modem, the pc doesnt need an IP as the modem would be directly connected.

henceforth, if one pc is connected via ethernet (with an ip address), the other is connected directly to the modem (with no ip), how do they communicate?

c:\ftp.exe
ftp>open
to>USB
... ??

dude, it doesnt work like that

fatherdougalmag

I think we have our own ideas of how the internals of this router works.

My view of how this works is that the router receives it's WAN/public IP from the service provider. Then, if you attach a PC via USB, your PC will receive a private IP address via DHCP (e.g. 192.168.1.2) from the router. The important thing here is that the USB connection doesn't assume the WAN IP address as would be the case in a standalone USB modem scenario. Similarly with the ethernet connection. It too would receive an IP address via DHCP (e.g. 192.168.1.3). That's why I say it should be possible.

Without knowing exactly how this Creative Labs router works, it's hard to say. For example, the USB drivers that come with the router may install an ethernet-over-USB driver for the USB part. In other words, when you attach a PC to the router, it appears to the PC as a regular ethernet adapter - not a regular USB modem. I think that's where I'm coming from. I don't mean that USB talks directly to ethernet at that low level. I'm saying that, internally, the router assigns a private IP to both interfaces and, as a result, both interfaces can communicate at that level. That's how I imagine it working but without looking at the beast first-hand, that's all I can go on.

ClonmelMan

All you need to do is to share a folder on each PC and you should be able to see both in MY Network Places. The USB and eithernet will receive an IP from the dhcp server built into the router so they are both on the same LAN.

mp3guy

fatherdougalmag wrote:

In other words, when you attach a PC to the router, it appears to the PC as a regular ethernet adapter - not a regular USB modem. I think that's where I'm coming from. I don't mean that USB talks directly to ethernet at that low level. I'm saying that, internally, the router assigns a private IP to both interfaces and, as a result, both interfaces can communicate at that level. That's how I imagine it working but without looking at the beast first-hand, that's all I can go on.

Yeah, when you use it through the USB it makes a psuedo lan connection in Network Connections that looks just like a normal lan connection in windows.

SwampThing

fatherdougalmag wrote:

What's so weird about that? If the router works as described and you can connect one machine to USB and another to ethernet, they will each received their own local IP address e.g. 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.3. (The router does support NAT).

You mean DHCP.

preilly79

mp3guy wrote:

Yeah, when you use it through the USB it makes a psuedo lan connection in Network Connections that looks just like a normal lan connection in windows.

but it wont get an ip address

ClonmelMan

but it wont get an ip address

Yes it will get an IP address just like anyother network connection, to test this just ping the PC by it's name from another PC on the network or do an "IPCONFIG /all" from a dos prompt on that PC to see it.

fatherdougalmag

SwampThing wrote:

You mean DHCP.

I do, I do. Slip of the brain.

andrew163

preilly79 wrote:

but it wont get an ip address

Yes it does. I've seen this thing (the Creative broadband blaster) being used on someone else's computer...

It's assigned a local IP (192.168.x.x)

to the original poster..... I agree with whichever post it was that said just buy yourself a cheap ethernet switch/hub and hook it up like this:

 [internet]
     |
     | <-- Your DSL connection
     |
 [Creative router thingy]
     |
     | <-- Straight-through (non-crossover) ethernet connection
     |
  [Ethernet hub/switch]
     |             |
     |             |  <-- Straight through (non-crossover) ethernet connections
     |             |
   [PC1]         [PC2]

Leave USB out of it altogether. Even if it does work the other way (with USB and ethernet at once), it'll save you a few headaches in the future if you set it up like this...far more reliable.

mp3guy

thanks, should this be ok:

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=303997&cks=PRL

galwaydude18

ya that would do you nicely!

fatherdougalmag

Have you tried connecting both - one via USB, the other via e'net? It is worth a shot before setting credit card to 'stun'.

mp3guy

fatherdougalmag wrote:

setting credit card to 'stun'.

hahahaha, funny. I'll be trying that before I buy that switch. One thing i'm concerned about, sure they'll both be able to use the BB, but will they be able to transfer between each other? The 2 PCs?

fatherdougalmag

Yes. They should each have their own IP address on the private network which your router has created. So you should be able to at least FTP stuff between them and, at best, use Windows networking to share directories etc.