Indicators!!!!!!!

Shane Smith

Why the hell doesn't anybody use them??? Is it really that hard to push the little stick on the steering wheel when changing lanes, approaching & using roundabouts, turning @ junctions(!)...

Just curious if anyone on boards would admit to frequently not using their indicators and if not, why not? A friend of mine said to me recently "ah yeah I don't really use indicators any more, I guess when you're driving a while you don't feel like you have to..."

:eek:

prospect

I am in the nasty habit of not using them when there is no other car around.
My wife gives out every time.

But when there is other cars around, she never gives out, (well not about indicators anyway), so i must use them when it really matters. She is like my own personal bad driving alarm.

It is a bad habit, and i have no idea how i developed it!?

koneko

I use them all the time, you have to. Without them, people aren't going to know where you're going. It pisses me off to no end when I'm sitting waiting to get onto a roundabout and idiots pull on and off whenever they feel like it without indicating. I'm not psychic.

seamus

I too have a nasty habit of not using them when there are no other vehicles around.

I have no excuse really, it's just laziness.

Enduro

Seamus, Prospect:
How stupid are you people?

Cars aren't the only users on the roads!!!!

Pedestrians watch for indicators when crossing roads to get some INDICATION of where the car is going. Cyclists watch them all the time to get some INDICATION of where cars are going. The amount of morons I've seen nearly cause crashes by not indicating when they're turning left is truely phenomenal. You people certainly seem like part of this problem :rolleyes:

prospect

Enduro,

Thanks for your comment. Indeed you are right, cars are not the only road users. And I should have stated that when there is no other 'road user' around I have the bad habit of not indicating.

Also, I am neither stupid, nor a moron, and I'll thank you to retract those insulting comments.

Prospect.

MooShop

yes why do people not use them, i use them all the time. it is very annoying when people turn off at a junction and dont use their indicators, and it's very dangerous, no wonder there are accidents on our roads if people cant do the basic things right when driving a car.i find that roundabouts are the worst for people not using their indicators.

Eoin

Enduro wrote:

Seamus, Prospect:
How stupid are you people?

Cars aren't the only users on the roads!!!!

Pedestrians watch for indicators when crossing roads to get some INDICATION of where the car is going. Cyclists watch them all the time to get some INDICATION of where cars are going. The amount of morons I've seen nearly cause crashes by not indicating when they're turning left is truely phenomenal. You people certainly seem like part of this problem :rolleyes:

I hate when people don't indicate and I am very careful to indicate whenever applicable but while we're on the topic, IMO cyclists are some of the worst users of the roads - traffic lights, signalling etc mean absolutely nothing to most the ones I see around.

And of course, if there is an accident and they are hit - the motorist will still be found at least partly at fault just because the cyclist is more vulnerable.

whippet

my missus has the terrible habit when changing lanes, to only put on the indicator when she starts moving. For some reason she can't grasp the fact that that once you start the manover the indicators are more or less irrelevant.

Dades

Enduro wrote:

Seamus, Prospect:
How stupid are you people?

Cars aren't the only users on the roads!!!!

Pedestrians watch for indicators when crossing roads to get some INDICATION of where the car is going. Cyclists watch them all the time to get some INDICATION of where cars are going. The amount of morons I've seen nearly cause crashes by not indicating when they're turning left is truely phenomenal. You people certainly seem like part of this problem

Nice overreaction.
That come with your bike?

Alun

whippet wrote:

my missus has the terrible habit when changing lanes, to only put on the indicator when she starts moving. For some reason she can't grasp the fact that that once you start the manover the indicators are more or less irrelevant.

Ah yes, the Manoeuvre, Signal, Mirror approach beloved of many Irish drivers:)

seamus

Enduro wrote:

Seamus, Prospect:
How stupid are you people?

Cars aren't the only users on the roads!!!!

Pedestrians watch for indicators when crossing roads to get some INDICATION of where the car is going. Cyclists watch them all the time to get some INDICATION of where cars are going. The amount of morons I've seen nearly cause crashes by not indicating when they're turning left is truely phenomenal. You people certainly seem like part of this problem :rolleyes:

What Prospect said. I don't drive a car, which is why I specifically said "vehicles", but obviously I meant "other road users".

Do all cyclists have this "If it has an engine, it's evil" problem?

Enduro

Lads, if you had said road users (And that includes pedestrians too), then You wouldn't have got the severity of the reaction. There are plenty of drivers around who do drive with complete disregard for non 4-wheeled road users. You comments made you sound exactly like one of those.

And I still think that not using indicators correctly is stupid and dangerous. Even if you think there are no other road users around, you cannot know that with 100% certainty. As the OP said, what is the big deal with pushing up/down a little lever before you make a turn. Why is this so difficult for you? Its a legal requirement for a reason. If used correctly it greatly reduces the chance of crashes both for you, and for all other road users in your vicinity (Whether you can see them or not).

Prospect, I have no idea if you yourself are stupid or a moron, so I'll retract that overly broad remark. However I still think that not using indicators is stupid, moronic, and dangerous to other road users, and ultimately also to yourself. So I do think that you behavior in this particular situation desrves these labels. You're obviously intelligent enough to carry out relatively complex tasks on a computer. Can you explain to me why it is that you can't carry out a relatively simple safey procedure when you're driving?

IMO cyclists are some of the worst users of the roads - traffic lights, signalling etc mean absolutely nothing to most the ones I see around.

eoin_s, in response to that (1) its off topic. If you want to start a discussion on that start another thread and (2) Its irrelevant. (And I don't disagree with the fact that some cyclist are some of the worst users of the road, btw).


Seamus, as stated above there is nothing obvious about the fact that "vehicles" includes pedestrians. I would have thought the opposite myself. And as a pedestrian I always check to see if any cars are tuning onto a road before I cross it (near a junction obviously), but despite this there have been many occasions where cars turn left without indicating, thereby putting me in needless danger. How does having and objection to this illegal dangerous behaviour turn me into someone who thinks "If it has an engine, it's evil" ?

Macy

Also in the habit of not indicating if there is no one else in view (vehicle, car, pedestrian, cyclist, dog). Only yesterday got given out to by the missus when there wasn't a sinner in sight

Enduro, surely cyclists should be "indicating" as much as any other road user?

Dades

FFS there's nothing wrong with not indicating if there's no other road users around.

If I burp on my own I don't say "excuse me".

And an insinuation that we're too stupid to know whether the road is empty of cars, bikes, etc is a knee-jerk fallacy.

prospect

Enduro wrote:

Prospect, I have no idea if you yourself are stupid or a moron, so I'll retract that overly broad remark.

I suppose thats as close to an apology as I am going to get

Enduro wrote:

Can you explain to me why it is that you can't carry out a relatively simple safey procedure when you're driving?

I know it is a bad habit.
But, I do feel you are venting your anger regarding 'road users' who do not indicate at me. I do feel I stated quite clearly, (over two posts, as it transpires), that I only omit turn signals when there is no other 'road user' around.

In summary, I do admit it is a bad habit i have, but i don't think it is a serious one. Possibly, it i am more alert of my driving environment, and can make educated decisions based on it, rather than the 'knee jerk reaction' as described by Atheist!

seamus

Enduro wrote:

And I still think that not using indicators correctly is stupid and dangerous. Even if you think there are no other road users around, you cannot know that with 100% certainty. As the OP said, what is the big deal with pushing up/down a little lever before you make a turn. Why is this so difficult for you? Its a legal requirement for a reason. If used correctly it greatly reduces the chance of crashes both for you, and for all other road users in your vicinity (Whether you can see them or not).

Prospect, I have no idea if you yourself are stupid or a moron, so I'll retract that overly broad remark. However I still think that not using indicators is stupid, moronic, and dangerous to other road users, and ultimately also to yourself. So I do think that you behavior in this particular situation desrves these labels. You're obviously intelligent enough to carry out relatively complex tasks on a computer. Can you explain to me why it is that you can't carry out a relatively simple safey procedure when you're driving?

Actually, indication is a process for me. I don't just "indicate because you're turning". I consider before I indicate - "Who can/will benefit from my indication?" taking into account the road users around me and the layout of the junction. There are plenty of siutations where I would refrain from, or delay indicating so as not to give a confusing signal. It's a judgement call moreso than a inbuilt habit, and while I'd prefer that people do at least attempt to indicate, I've had easily as many near misses caused by people's failure to give the correct signal. At least if someone doesn't signal, you automatically give them more caution.
This goes some way towards the reason why I can tend to not indicate when there's no-one around - Who's going to benefit from my indication, when a tree falls in the forest and all that. I don't not* indicate consciously, as I said before, it's mostly just laziness. Yes, even when there's no-one around, I probably should indicate anyway.

eoin_s, in response to that (1) its off topic. If you want to start a discussion on that start another thread and (2) Its irrelevant. (And I don't disagree with the fact that some cyclist are some of the worst users of the road, btw).

It's perfectly relevant. Cyclists are road users too and are bound by the obligation to indicate, just the same.

Seamus, as stated above there is nothing obvious about the fact that "vehicles" includes pedestrians. I would have thought the opposite myself. And as a pedestrian I always check to see if any cars are tuning onto a road before I cross it (near a junction obviously), but despite this there have been many occasions where cars turn left without indicating, thereby putting me in needless danger.

I have legs, so I'm a pedestrian too. I'm well aware of the need to give indication to pedestrians as well as other vehicles. When I say "vehicles", I mean "other road users", sorry if you saw it otherwise. From my perspective, all other road users are vehicles that could potentially result in my death - including pedestrians.

How does having and objection to this illegal dangerous behaviour turn me into someone who thinks "If it has an engine, it's evil" ?

It was your immediate need to jump on two posts, when clearly you failed to correctly interpret them, instead making up your own meaning. Perhaps it's because you're not used to this board, but there's a certain level of reading between the lines required. When prospect says "When there are no other cars around", obviously he still indicates when there are trucks, busses, trams, other road users, etc around.

*Sorry for the double negative

prospect

seamus wrote:

When prospect says "When there are no other cars around", obviously he still indicates when there are trucks, busses, trams, other road users, etc around

Correct.

the_syco

Macy wrote:

Enduro, surely cyclists should be "indicating" as much as any other road user?

They should, and I do.

The Atheist wrote:

FFS there's nothing wrong with not indicating if there's no other road users around.

Nearly crashed into a neighbour, as they decide to do a 3 point turn. 7pm, highly visable, coming down the midle of a road (was in an estate, cars @ both sides of the road parked), and she swings the car in my way. Indicators? Nope. Use of side-mirror? Nope: if she did she'd have seen me.

If I was a car, not a bycycle, I'd have slammed into the side of her car. Luckily [?] I was able to swerve to the right, and avoid the car.

Eoin

Enduro wrote:

eoin_s, in response to that (1) its off topic. If you want to start a discussion on that start another thread and (2) Its irrelevant. (And I don't disagree with the fact that some cyclist are some of the worst users of the road, btw).

Fine - I can't be arsed getting into a debate on a Monday, but I brought up the cyclists because you mentioned them first.

Macy

the_syco wrote:

They should, and I do.

So bringing in cyclists wasn't going off topic then, that's all I wanted clarification on.

As for your example, if you were coming down the road she shouldn't have been doing a 3 point turn. She should've stopped, indicators or not....

Scruff

absolutely hate it when drivers dont use their indicators on a roundabout.

Always wondered...If you are going on to a roundabout and end up being hit by a car already on the roundabout but was not using an indicators, are you still at fault?
hasnt happened me or anything, just wondering...

seamus

Scruff wrote:

Always wondered...If you are going on to a roundabout and end up being hit by a car already on the roundabout but was not using an indicators, are you still at fault?
hasnt happened me or anything, just wondering...

Yes you are. You must yield to traffic already on the roundabout. Simple as

prospect

seamus wrote:

Yes you are. You must yield to traffic already on the roundabout. Simple as

Even if they are not there!!!!!

the_syco

prospect wrote:

Even if they are not there!!!!!

If they are not there first, you are in the right. If you are not first, they're in the right.

prospect

Sorry, that was my poor attempt at a joke.

Apparantly it is absoloutly abhorant that i do not indicate when there is no one there to witness my indicating, let alone care about the actions i am about to make, as per my indications.
So, i was just curious whether it was also required, by the same rationale, to yield to someone who isn't there!

ando

any Bmw drivers going to contribute to this thread?

blastman

They don't know what we're talking about, I'd say...

DubTony

This thread has turned into one of those us against them threads. I love it.

I think it's despicable that people don't use indicators when there's no one to benefit.

Advanced drivers will know that you should always indicate when others can benefit from the signal. But if there's no-one there .... who gives a sh!t?

Personally I use indicators all the time, so I know where I'm going. ***Bom-bom - tisch***

Unless there's a cyclist nearby. They like to keep me guessing .. :rolleyes: ... 2 can play at that game.

As for BMW drivers ...

Enduro

Just to clarify why I think you should always indicate even if you think no-one is nearby. Its because you cannot be 100% sure that there is no-one nearby. Pedestrians in particular can be very hard to see under some circumstances. Just because you think that no-one is around does not actually mean that no-one is around.

Of course a second reason would be that not bothering to indicate could start to become a habit that creeps into your driving behaviour, so that you become more lazy about the need (and responsibility) to indicate, even when you know that there are other people around.

Just to logically extend the logic of not indicating when no-one is around, is it OK to speed when no-one else is around? Is it OK to run red lights when there is no-one about? Is it OK to drive drunk if you know with 100% certainty that there will be no-one on your route? Is it OK to drive the wrong way around a roundabout when no-one is around. These aren't wild fantasy scenarios. These are situations that I've heard have happened (with the no-one around justification).


And, Just 'cause it keeps creeping back into the thread...

Enduro, surely cyclists should be "indicating" as much as any other road user?

Yup. I agree. And yes, there are a large number of cyclist out there who disobey a large number of traffic laws. Cyclists should always indicate, and stop at red lights etc etc. But there many other issues that this area (cyclists indicating) throws up. For example, when a cyclist is in a cyle lane which goes straight on, but the cycle lane itself is part of a left turning lane, How does the cyclist indicate that they're going straight on (to the vehicles about to turn left accross the path of the cyclist)? (Dublin City Council, who build a lot of the facilites that lead to such dangerous situations have some truely bizarre ideas about what should happen here that have no basis in law).

It was your immediate need to jump on two posts, when clearly you failed to correctly interpret them, instead making up your own meaning. Perhaps it's because you're not used to this board, but there's a certain level of reading between the lines required. When prospect says "When there are no other cars around", obviously he still indicates when there are trucks, busses, trams, other road users, etc around.

I did actually read between the lines in so far as "cars" would include trucks, trams , buses and other 4+ wheeled vehicles. Personally I'd never interpret it to include pedestrians as well, and I can't think of any time in my life when Ive heard anyone use the word "cars" or "vehicles" to include pedestrians as well. If thats what was meant, then to my mind it wasn't very well phrased. As I said earlier, there are plenty of drivers out there who seem to drive with the attitude that pedestrians don't matter.

Shane Smith

sorry but I really cannot see the logic in any point of view that condones not using your indicators and saying "oh well there's noone around" is not a valid argument. You can NEVER be 100% sure (and if you think you are then may the force be with you!)

It just starts an extremely stoopid habit, and the poster who compared it to "belching when noone else is around" I don't think there is any real comparison to using indicators.

I didn't mean to start fights r anything but you non-indicators get right up my nose!