Indicators!!!!!!!

Lord Nikon

I don't really use them, unless i need to.

seamus

Shane Smith wrote:

sorry but I really cannot see the logic in any point of view that condones not using your indicators and saying "oh well there's noone around" is not a valid argument. You can NEVER be 100% sure (and if you think you are then may the force be with you!)

Of course you can, for the purposes of the indication. If you're not sure if there's anyone around you, then not using your indicators is the least of your problems.

There are certain situations where obviously things are obscured from view, but approaching a small open roundabout, it's extremely easy to see if there's anyone who might remotely benefit from your indication.

Enduro, you seem to think that indicating is as important as, say, driving in a straight line.

For the record, yes, driving home drunk would be fine - if you were guaranteed that there was absolutely nothing you could hit on the way home, i.e. if the way home was an infinitely wide field.

Enduro

If you're not sure if there's anyone around you, then not using your indicators is the least of your problems.

I disagree with this. If you assume that there are people around and drive accordingly, then you'll be a lot safer

There are certain situations where obviously things are obscured from view, but approaching a small open roundabout, it's extremely easy to see if there's anyone who might remotely benefit from your indication.

Given that its a legal requirement for you to use your indicators, and given that its extemely dangersous to other road users if you don't indicate your intentions, and given that you can never be 100% certain that there is no-one else around, can you give me one good reason for NOT using your indicators. The only reasons I can think of are (1) laziness (2) Ignorance (3) Arrogance or (4) stupidity, or any combination of those. In any case I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be classified as simply being bad driving. I'd be interested if you can come up with a good reason why this is not the case.

Enduro, you seem to think that indicating is as important as, say, driving in a straight line.

Essentially yes. Failing to do either can quickly lead to crashes (accidents would be way too soft a word) and causalties. As it happens, the rules of the road also consider it to be an important mandatory non-optional part of driving.

For the record, yes, driving home drunk would be fine - if you were guaranteed that there was absolutely nothing you could hit on the way home, i.e. if the way home was an infinitely wide field.

In the real finite world I'm sure you would agree that there are many eejits in this country who decide to drive home drunk on the country roads from their local where where the likelihood of meeting anyone else on the road is extremely small. Is this OK? like you, they're deciding that there is no-one else around. Like you, most of the time they'll be right. But is it OK?

Curran

Funny thing about indicators is that they are only there for courtesy to let people know your intenion of turning!

But if im pottering along im my car and you are waitin say to turn right at the junction that i intend to turn left at i signal to turn left......you decide to pull out and i change my mind i keep going straight (stil with my indicator on) and i plow into the side of your nice car.......you are at fault.........good isnt it!

therecklessone

koneko wrote:

Without them, people aren't going to know where you're going.

And very often with them people still don't know where you're gonna go because of poor use of the bloody things...especially on roundabouts!

I know a guy who steadfastedly refuses to indicate right approaching a roundabout to take the 3rd (or subsequent) exit because he maintains he has to turn the car left on entering the roundabout! :eek: WTF?

halkar

I think it just happens with me and I indicate, even at 5am in the morning nothing around. Mind you I have came accross cows, sheeps, dogs, cats, rabbits, mice. Once I seen 6 cows gone for a walk on the road and I remember indicating to over take them. Got to love country roads

Capt'n Midnight

prospect wrote:

I am in the nasty habit of not using them when there is no other car around.
My wife gives out every time.

there is an add on ITN london region saying that half of the motorcyclists killed in the area are not seen by drivers who have looked in thier direction.

Just because you see no car doesn't mean they aren't motorcyclists or cyclists or pedistarians there.

Balfa

prospect wrote:

I am in the nasty habit of not using them when there is no other car around.

That's really bad. There are an infinite number of situations where indicators are useful, and we miss over half of these situations, so it's best to always use indicators regardless of what we think the situation is, because you never know for sure.

Not even from a safety point of view, but equally from a courtesy point of view. I'm going to start keeping golf balls in my car and throw one through the windshield of each car that turns into the lane i'm pulling out of when i'm waiting for them to drive past because they're not indicating.

Fair play to your wife though

Capt'n Midnight

From the BMW thread - applies to so many Irish Drivers.

bucks wrote:

528i

Who cares about 'indicating' ?

I've never heard such nonsense, its quite obvious that most bmw drivers (in their quest to get important things done) will overtake anything and everything given half a chance, so there's no real point, what they should do is indicate when they're 'not' going to overtake.

What I find highly amusing are the last minute turn ins to junctions where longanimously dispositioned motorists have been waiting patiently for hours to be allowed out, in typical bmw fashion you're going much to fast for them to 'chance it', then slow down to a snails pace while slowly turning in to that miserable, sorrowful looking 'jes I could'av gone long ago' impression out their side window, brings a smile every time, you should try it.

Dizzyblabla

Sunday morning I was driving under the jack lynch tunnel, it was 6.30 in the morning and there was 2 cars on the road, me and the taxi driver in front of me (on his phone) when you come out of the jack lynch tunnel, there is a roundabout, first exit is to the city centre, the second exit is for Dublin/Limerick, and the third one is for Waterford/Little Island (which was the exit I was going to take).

I went into the right hand lane, which was the correct lane to be in for this exit, and the taxi driver was in the middle lane, fair enough, so he should have been going to Dublin, he started to break at the Dublin exit, then changed his mind, (no indicators) and kept going towards the waterford exit...
This would have been ok if he had stuck to the outside lane as there are two lanes leading off that exit anyway, but he didn't, because he hadn't seen me and he went right over in front of me, driving in the middle of the two lanes (ie white stripy line in the middle of the road that separates one lane from the other) and still chatting away on his phone...

I saw him from the moment we got into the tunnel, cause he was in front of me, but he never saw me until I blew him out of it for his stupidity, he probably figure it's 6.30 on a sunday morning, who will be on the road, well, I was, and he could have caused a bad crash if I hadn't kept an eye on him..

now I'm only driving about 5 months, so maybe I am still a bit anal about things, but I cannot get over the lack of driving skills of people who have full licenses, mirrors and indicators are there for a reason, and they should be used...

halkar

528i wrote:

Who cares about 'indicating' ?

I've never heard such nonsense, its quite obvious that most bmw drivers (in their quest to get important things done) will overtake anything and everything given half a chance, so there's no real point, what they should do is indicate when they're 'not' going to overtake.

What I find highly amusing are the last minute turn ins to junctions where longanimously dispositioned motorists have been waiting patiently for hours to be allowed out, in typical bmw fashion you're going much to fast for them to 'chance it', then slow down to a snails pace while slowly turning in to that miserable, sorrowful looking 'jes I could'av gone long ago' impression out their side window, brings a smile every time, you should try it.

Wait till you come accross half dozen of cows gone for a power walking and see if they give a $hit about your badge. Maybe after when it is too late you will think if you had indicated

528i

you're talking about bray fitness centre arent you ?

Balfa

A list of situations in which you should indicate.

1. Turning. Duh.
2. Changing lanes. Don't forget to indicate well in advance (3 seconds for me). Mirror+Indicate, over the shoulder, start to move, over the shoulder again, stop indicating as soon as you touch the line, so that people in the next lane don't think you're heading all the way across. On a side note. Don't ever change across two lanes at once. Yeah, i know you don't often get more than two lanes in ireland, but if you do, change lane, stop indicating, drive, change lane again.
3. Moving sideways in the road even when not changing lanes! i.e. pulling away from the kerb, going around a parked car, etc.
4. When two lanes merge into one. Even if you're in the lane that doesn't end! If i'm driving in a dual carriageway and the lane to my right ends and merges into my one, i'll indicate right, to warn other road users that it's currently not a good idea to try and pass me on the right. Even though i don't actually move right. I do this even when there's "no one else around"
5. In car parks! The amount of people who don't indicate just because they're no longer on a public road really annoys me. Oh my goddd, when someone stops in front of me because they're waiting for someone ahead of them to vacate a parking space they want, and they don't indicate... it makes me want to zip around them and steal their space for not indicating.
6. BEFORE YOU BRAKE. When turning, you indicate first, then you start to slow down for your turn.
7. When your hand hovers at the indicator stalk for a moment and you're not sure whether it's worth indicating or not (every driver does this on occasion). This is a sure sign that you do need to indicate, so do it.

And remember, any indicator left on for more than about a hundred yards is useless. Because everyone assumes you're an idiot who can't figure out how to turn them off.

There are other situations, but i automatically do them when i'm driving and can't think of them when i'm not in that particular situation.

halkar

Naaaa, the ones I am talking about can't even afford the Dunne's ones.

Hi Ben Dunne here, bla bla bla.....

528i

Is that "Naaaa" as in sheepy avatar / farm-yard animal pun, are you a feirmeoir by any chance?

ok im going to bed

AMurphy

If the acceleration is greater than the response of the indicator relay, then forget it and use the accelerator as the indicator.

Macy

Dizzyblabla wrote:

now I'm only driving about 5 months, so maybe I am still a bit anal about things, but I cannot get over the lack of driving skills of people who have full licenses, mirrors and indicators are there for a reason, and they should be used...

Lack of driving skills, attention, and use of mirrors are by far the biggest factors in that. If he's used his indicators he still wouldn't have seen you...

Okay, I'll use my indicators next time, just incase theres a car, artic, cyclist, pedestrian hiding in a ditch ready to jump out if I don't indicate...

prospect

Shane Smith wrote:

You can NEVER be 100% sure[/i]

Bull****, my in-laws homeplace is on a long stretch of country road, there is about a half a mile each side of it without any turns, house or field entrances. It has a low hedge and about a metre of grass on each side of the road. I can see at the very least a mile in each direction when i turn into their place, and I can absolutely 100% guarantee you that when i turn in there without signalling, there is absoloutly no-one around to witness me turning.

Shane Smith wrote:

It just starts an extremely stoopid habit

I know, which is why i admitted in my first post that it was a bad habit, not a life threathning, potentially fatal excercise, just a bad habit, like picking your nose!

Enduro wrote:

is it OK to speed when no-one else is around?

Haardly, and if you can't see a difference in the situation, then you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Speeding could result in someone jumping from a ditch onto the road, or meeting a pot hole to quickly that could take out your tyre, or rounding a bend to meet something stationary on the road, which you could not avoid. Slightly different, because a little orannge light flashing on the side of my car, will not make any difference in any of the above situations.

Enduro wrote:

Is it OK to drive drunk if you know with 100% certainty that there will be no-one on your route?

I think you are loosing the run of yourself here, no-one can guarntee that, ever. But if it was a closed private road, with 20ft walls on both sides, and absoloutly impossible for anyone else to get on it, and it was your choice, and your car, and your road, then why not?

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Just because you see no car doesn't mean they aren't motorcyclists or cyclists or pedistarians there.

If this is the case, which it is not, then you could never turn anytime, anywhere, ever, indicators or not. Because you couldn't be sure that the motorcyclist saw your indicators. Brilliant logic, NOT.

Balfa wrote:

because you never know for sure

Yes I do, and if i'm not sure, on go the indicators....


Listen all you do-gooders, I know not using them when i am the only 'road user' is a bad habit.
But, that is all it is, because it is in no way dangerous at all when i AM 100% certain there is no one around effected by my turning.
So get over it.

englander

I was taught to drive in a sleepy town in the North of England.

My driving instructor encouraged his students not to indicate if there were no road users around.

He advised me to not indicate in these circumstances on my test, but to make sure I narrate my thoughts out loud
"no cars or road users around therefore no need to indicate..."

Apparently it demonstrates an entire awareness of your surroundings when you are making a turn etc.

Indicating when no road users will be affected by your manouvre demonstrates a lack of awareness in your immediate situation...apparently

Scruff

even worse that those who dont use thei indicators at roundabouts....those who dont use their indicators AND who use the wrong lanes going around the roundabout!!! make my blood boil.

Ah yes, no indicator in the outside lane they must be turning in here. wait no there they go, nearly taking the nose off my car and oh look they've nearly caused an accident on the 3rd exit that they are actually taking. ah bless... where did i put my RPG??

seamus

Enduro wrote:

I disagree with this. If you assume that there are people around and drive accordingly, then you'll be a lot safer

Assumptions should only be made when you're not sure.

Given that its a legal requirement for you to use your indicators, and given that its extemely dangersous to other road users if you don't indicate your intentions, and given that you can never be 100% certain that there is no-one else around, can you give me one good reason for NOT using your indicators. The only reasons I can think of are (1) laziness (2) Ignorance (3) Arrogance or (4) stupidity, or any combination of those. In any case I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be classified as simply being bad driving. I'd be interested if you can come up with a good reason why this is not the case.

I'll go for option 1 please Bob, like I've already said. Tbh, I'm not making excuses, but you seem to be under some vague impression that there are invisible people about. I can think of a multitude of situations where you can be 100% sure that there is no-one else who could benefit from your indication. I'm asking the question seriously here - If a tree falls in the forest, and no-one's around, does it make a sound? More importantly, does it matter if it makes a sound? I fail to see how you can link non-indication in safe circumstances with bad driving. It's absolutely nothing like speeding when no-one's around, drink-driving when no-one's around. These things involve a fundamental change in your control of the vehicle, in the chances of you making a mistake. Indication has absolutely no bearing on the handling of your vehicle, or on the chances of you making a mistake. It's something which is solely for the benefit of the drivers around you.

Essentially yes. Failing to do either can quickly lead to crashes (accidents would be way too soft a word) and causalties. As it happens, the rules of the road also consider it to be an important mandatory non-optional part of driving.

The government would say otherwise. It's not even planned to be on the list of penalty points offences.

In the real finite world I'm sure you would agree that there are many eejits in this country who decide to drive home drunk on the country roads from their local where where the likelihood of meeting anyone else on the road is extremely small. Is this OK? like you, they're deciding that there is no-one else around. Like you, most of the time they'll be right. But is it OK?

I disagree, most of the time they won't be alright. As I say, drink-driving has a devastating effect on your ability to control your vehicle, and make judgement calls. Indication has no bearing in that area.

Alun

englander wrote:

He advised me to not indicate in these circumstances on my test, but to make sure I narrate my thoughts out loud "no cars or road users around therefore no need to indicate..."

Apparently it demonstrates an entire awareness of your surroundings when you are making a turn etc.

I understand that the IAM in the UK advocates this approach too, i.e. that you actually positively think about whether you need to indicate or not, and don't just blindly do it out of habit. This not only applies to the case where there is no traffic about, but also as to whether your indicating actually provides any useful information to any of the other road users around you or not. In this respect, I remember a very heated debate on Usenet a few years back as to whether you should indicate when moving back in after an overtaking manoeuvre on a dual carriageway or motorway for example .... (where's that can of worms smilie )

Shane Smith

jaysus nobody cares if you're in the middle of the Sahara desert and you choose not to use your indicators! The issue here is use of indicators where they are ultimately required, there is really something wrong with a lot of you so-called "drivers" if you don't feel you have to indicate changing lanes and I wish you had more sense to use 'em at roundabouts which can be generally chaotic at the best of times.


It doesn't only go for BMW drivers, not using your "little orange lights" is bad m'kay

seamus

Shane Smith wrote:

jaysus nobody cares if you're in the middle of the Sahara desert and you choose not to use your indicators! The issue here is use of indicators where they are ultimately required, there is really something wrong with a lot of you so-called "drivers" if you don't feel you have to indicate changing lanes and I wish you had more sense to use 'em at roundabouts which can be generally chaotic at the best of times.

You're right, we're waay off-topic.

Sometimes your driving "sixth sense" comes in handy when people don't use their indicators. It's funny on a bike, you become so sensitive to the people who you just *know* are going to move into your lane, or suddenly overtake, or anything else, without indicating. You could pretty much pick them out as you go along, though it's not something you can trust to spot everyone
Car drivers develop this sense too, but not to the same sensitivity.

prospect

Shane Smith wrote:

jaysus nobody cares if you're in the middle of the Sahara desert and you choose not to use your indicators! The issue here is use of indicators where they are ultimately required, there is really something wrong with a lot of you so-called "drivers" if you don't feel you have to indicate changing lanes and I wish you had more sense to use 'em at roundabouts which can be generally chaotic at the best of times.


It doesn't only go for BMW drivers, not using your "little orange lights" is bad m'kay

I agree 100%
As long as they are used when it matters, then who cares!

dahamsta

ando wrote:

any Bmw drivers going to contribute to this thread?

Coo-eee! Course I started driving in a Daihatsu Domino (more fun than you'd think) and progressed from there via two Starlets (awful, awful cars) and a Colt (great car) to my '93 525i, so I dunno do I count, but...

I have to admit to occasionally - I mean once a month, if that - forgetting to indicate, however 99.9% of the time I indicate (imho) in time and correctly. I'm fastidious about it, because it's important, so I notice (and rage) when other people don't do it. Very few of them are BMW drivers. Oh, and I do it even when there's nothing else on the road, simply because a twat in an Impreza WRX can be non-existant one second and half a mile in front of you the next.

If people want to pigeonhole, you could do a lot worse than sticking Merc drivers in a box. As far as I can see most BMW drivers are... drivers. Whereas most Merc drivers are fashion victims that can't drive worth sh1t. And I can honestly say that I haven't seen a cyclist do a hand signal in about five years. Not one. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

That's how it is down here in the real capital anyway. Can't speak for Dublin, I try to avoid driving there at all costs cos the city doesn't really seem to understand, you know, signposting?

adam

seamus

dahamsta wrote:

I try to avoid driving there at all costs cos the city doesn't really seem to understand, you know, signposting?

We do that so Cork people won't be able to find their way to Dublin

dahamsta

seamus wrote:

We do that so Cork people won't be able to find their way to Dublin

It's the in Dublin part I have trouble with seamus. If you played your cards right you'd actually get rid of me quicker, I seem get lost every second time just trying to get out!

adam

Capt'n Midnight

Alun wrote:

I understand that the IAM in the UK advocates this approach too, i.e. that you actually positively think about whether you need to indicate or not, and don't just blindly do it out of habit.

I'm just going to point out again that in London half the motorcyclist deaths were caused by motorists not seeing them even though they glanced/looked in the direction of the motorcyclist. The point being if you can't see them doesn't mean that other smaller road users aren't there.

So I'm just going to keep indicating out of habit. Yeah it's annoying the odd time when you catch your self indicating on a very sharp blind left hand turn because you concentrating on observation rather than decision about what to do with your little finger.