What can I expect? NTL + Pings

CrimE

Hello lads,
Currently Im on 1mb Esat BT. I get pings to game servers in the UK of about 45-50. I know that using cable usually means worse pings.

Just wondering can anyone give me an idea of what to expect?

Cheers, CrimE

bk

CrimE wrote:

Hello lads,
Currently Im on 1mb Esat BT. I get pings to game servers in the UK of about 45-50. I know that using cable usually means worse pings.

Just wondering can anyone give me an idea of what to expect?

Roughly the same to servers in the UK, I can give you exact figures when I get home.

There is no reason why Cable means worse pings, it is roughly the same as DSL.

The only problem NTL has, is that they don't seem to be peered in the Irish INEX. This means when you are sending packets to an Irish server, they go to the UK first and then back to Ireland, which is slower then Eircom and others who do peer in Ireland.

Hopefully with UGC taking over NTL, they will sort this problem out.

CrimE

bk wrote:

Roughly the same to servers in the UK, I can give you exact figures when I get home.

Cheers I would appreciate that

causal

NTL 2Mbps/200kbps @ this time:

C:\>ping www.boards.ie

Pinging www.boards.ie [82.195.136.36] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=48
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=48
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=48
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=48

Ping statistics for 82.195.136.36:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 27ms, Maximum = 33ms, Average = 29ms

C:\>ping www.jolt.co.uk

Pinging www.jolt.co.uk [82.133.85.65] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 82.133.85.65: bytes=32 time=68ms TTL=50
Reply from 82.133.85.65: bytes=32 time=53ms TTL=50
Reply from 82.133.85.65: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=50
Reply from 82.133.85.65: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=50

Ping statistics for 82.133.85.65:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 30ms, Maximum = 68ms, Average = 46ms

hth,
causal

CrimE

Cool cheers lads. Almost the exact same as mine.

I dont know what it was i just heard something about cable being bad for pings but obviously that wasnt right.

CrimE

causal

Maybe it was from the olden days when cable used phonelines for upload.

causal

crawler

bk wrote:

Roughly the same to servers in the UK, I can give you exact figures when I get home.

There is no reason why Cable means worse pings, it is roughly the same as DSL.

The only problem NTL has, is that they don't seem to be peered in the Irish INEX. This means when you are sending packets to an Irish server, they go to the UK first and then back to Ireland, which is slower then Eircom and others who do peer in Ireland.

Hopefully with UGC taking over NTL, they will sort this problem out.

I tihnk you will find that NTL actually hold the Chair at INEX currently BGP decides which routes is best for traffic and if that's throught the UK, then that's the right thing to do....but lots of traffic is passed at INEX also.

bk

CrimE wrote:

Cheers I would appreciate that

clarity.jolt.co.uk
20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 55/31/25

If there are any other servers you want me to ping let me know.

bk

crawler wrote:

I tihnk you will find that NTL actually hold the Chair at INEX currently BGP decides which routes is best for traffic and if that's throught the UK, then that's the right thing to do....but lots of traffic is passed at INEX also.

Well then NTL better sort out their routing, because it certainly isn't working well at the moment.

I had both Netsource 2m DSL and NTL 3m cable for about a month and i did a careful comparison of the two services, I don't have the article ready yet, but here are some highlights:

Latency for Netsource DSL is alomost always lower then NTL and it is more stable (less variance between the max and min ping time). Also all the Irish servers I tracerouted on NTL went through the UK.

In many cases NTL's average latency was almost twice that of Netsource. Yet NTL's latency to UK servers were better then Netsource, this says to me that if NTL could only sort out their routing problems and make better use of INEX, their latency might equal or even better DSL.

The following are my results from ping tests carried out between 3:30 and 4:30 AM on the 18th of April 2005:

boards.ie

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 45/39/37

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 28/21/19

clarity.jolt.co.uk

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 42/27/24

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 34/31/30

google.com

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 192/184/182

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 106/103/102

dell.com

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 158/153/151

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 161/157/155

irishisptest.com

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 46/40/39

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 23/20/19

www.netsource.ie

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 57/40/38

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 21/18/16

digiweb.ie

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 64/41/39

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 23/21/19

adslguide.org.uk

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 27/23/22

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 35/32/30

ftp.blueyonder.co.uk

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 34/30/29

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 43/41/40

games5.iol.ie

NTL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 40/36/25

DSL: 20 out, 20 in, 0% loss; Time (max/avg/min): 22/20/18

And here are some traceroutes to Irish servers on NTL:

boards.ie

# IP address Host name Round trip time
1 x.x.x.x Unavailable 7 ms
2 82.9.146.25 dbln-cam-1a-ge03-103.inet.ntl.com 9 ms
3 82.9.145.5 dbln-t2core-a-ge-210-0.inet.ntl.com 9 ms
4 213.105.174.53 dbln-bb-a-ge-230-0.inet.ntl.com 9 ms
5 213.105.174.49 dbln-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 12 ms
6 213.105.174.45 man-bb-a-so-500-0.inet.ntl.com 16 ms
7 62.253.185.194 lee-bb-b-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com 15 ms
8 62.253.187.185 lee-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 16 ms
9 62.253.185.238 pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com 21 ms
10 62.253.185.82 tele-ic-1-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com 22 ms
11 195.66.224.167 cr02.ldn01.pccwbtn.net 22 ms
12 84.203.130.1 Unavailable 34 ms
13 82.195.128.1 suez.hosting365.ie 36 ms
14 82.195.128.4 Unavailable 35 ms
15 82.195.144.58 pie.boards.ie 37 ms

irishisptest.com

# IP address Host name Round trip time
1 x.x.x.x Unavailable 7 ms
2 82.9.146.25 dbln-cam-1a-ge03-103.inet.ntl.com 9 ms
3 82.9.145.5 dbln-t2core-a-ge-210-0.inet.ntl.com 10 ms
4 213.105.174.53 dbln-bb-a-ge-230-0.inet.ntl.com 10 ms
5 213.105.174.41 ren-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com 14 ms
6 62.253.185.185 ren-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 14 ms
7 62.253.185.162 lee-bb-b-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com 19 ms
8 62.253.187.185 lee-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 20 ms
9 62.253.185.238 pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com 30 ms
10 213.105.172.78 pop-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 24 ms
11 62.253.185.86 tele-ic-2-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com 26 ms
12 212.250.14.54 Unavailable 26 ms
13 217.173.97.110 Unavailable 40 ms
14 217.173.97.170 Unavailable 39 ms
15 217.114.160.43 Unavailable 42 ms
16 217.114.173.16 Unavailable 39 ms

www.netsource.ie

# IP address Host name Round trip time
1 x.x.x.x Unavailable 7 ms
2 82.9.146.25 dbln-cam-1a-ge03-103.inet.ntl.com 13 ms
3 82.9.145.5 dbln-t2core-a-ge-210-0.inet.ntl.com 9 ms
4 213.105.174.53 dbln-bb-a-ge-230-0.inet.ntl.com 8 ms
5 213.105.174.41 ren-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com 13 ms
6 62.253.185.185 ren-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 13 ms
7 62.253.185.162 lee-bb-b-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com 19 ms
8 62.253.187.185 lee-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 23 ms
9 62.253.185.238 pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com 25 ms
10 213.105.172.78 pop-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 25 ms
11 62.253.185.86 tele-ic-2-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com 44 ms
12 212.250.14.54 Unavailable 25 ms
13 217.173.97.110 Unavailable 39 ms
14 217.173.97.178 Unavailable 39 ms
15 212.17.32.48 aurora.netsource.ie 41 ms

www.ireland.com

# IP address Host name Round trip time
1 x.x.x.x Unavailable 7 ms
2 82.9.146.25 dbln-cam-1a-ge03-103.inet.ntl.com 8 ms
3 82.9.145.5 dbln-t2core-a-ge-210-0.inet.ntl.com 7 ms
4 213.105.174.53 dbln-bb-a-ge-230-0.inet.ntl.com 12 ms
5 213.105.174.49 dbln-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 10 ms
6 213.105.174.45 man-bb-a-so-500-0.inet.ntl.com 14 ms
7 62.253.185.194 lee-bb-b-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com 15 ms
8 62.253.187.185 lee-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 17 ms
9 62.253.185.238 pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com 22 ms
10 62.253.185.82 tele-ic-1-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com 21 ms
11 195.66.224.79 fa5-0-0.core1.thn.london.eircom.net 20 ms
12 159.134.125.45 Unavailable 35 ms
13 159.134.203.179 Unavailable 34 ms
14 195.7.33.37 www.ireland.com 34 ms

games5.iol.ie

# IP address Host name Round trip time
1 x.x.x.x Unavailable 8 ms
2 82.9.146.25 dbln-cam-1a-ge03-103.inet.ntl.com 9 ms
3 82.9.145.5 dbln-t2core-a-ge-210-0.inet.ntl.com 10 ms
4 213.105.174.53 dbln-bb-a-ge-230-0.inet.ntl.com 9 ms
5 213.105.174.49 dbln-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 9 ms
6 213.105.174.45 man-bb-a-so-500-0.inet.ntl.com 19 ms
7 62.253.185.194 lee-bb-b-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com 16 ms
8 62.253.187.185 lee-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 16 ms
9 62.253.185.238 pop-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com 27 ms
10 62.253.185.82 tele-ic-1-so-010-0.inet.ntl.com 23 ms
11 195.66.224.65 linx-gw.uk.esat.net 21 ms
12 193.95.131.13 pos4-0.core001.cwt.esat.net 35 ms
13 193.95.129.19 vlan3.rt002.cwt.esat-x.com 38 ms
14 193.95.132.42 vlan59.rt508.cwt.esat.net 38 ms
15 193.120.123.137 games5.iol.ie 37 ms

I have yet to see a traceroute go through INEX for a Irish server. Come on guys, surely you can sort ths out.

dlofnep

C:\DOCUME~1\PENFOLD>ping boards.ie

Pinging boards.ie [82.195.136.36] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=55
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=55
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=55
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=55

Ping statistics for 82.195.136.36:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 12ms, Maximum = 33ms, Average = 17ms


NTL 3mbps.

CrimE

Whoa conflicting reports there. BK's results (cheers btw) are interestnig DSL almost always wins out.

dlofnep's pinging though is very very good.

I am getting very confused with this. Dont know what to think

Pings for me as a gamer are very important so I have to get this sorted. I really would like ntl's ul/dl speeds. But i have seen far more threads started about the poor standard at times of ntl's connections than anyone elses. Should i be worried; is it as bad as it sounds?

bk

Haha, NTL must be reading this, suddenly my pings to boards.ie are now going through INEX:

# IP address Host name Round trip time
1 x.x.x.x cpc1-inch1-3-0-cust97.dbln.cable.ntl.co 1 ms
2 10.135.103.254 Unavailable 9 ms
3 82.9.146.25 dbln-cam-1a-ge03-103.inet.ntl.com 15 ms
4 82.9.145.5 dbln-t2core-a-ge-210-0.inet.ntl.com 29 ms
5 213.105.174.53 dbln-bb-a-ge-230-0.inet.ntl.com 10 ms
6 213.105.174.49 dbln-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com 12 ms
7 213.105.174.94 inex-ic-1-pos000.inet.ntl.com 35 ms
8 193.1.208.203 fe-0-1-2.core1.dublin2.stisp.net 13 ms
9 84.203.130.94 Unavailable 13 ms
10 84.203.138.118 Unavailable 14 ms
11 82.195.128.7 Unavailable 17 ms
12 82.195.136.36 boards.ie 15 ms

However the other Irish servers still aren't going through INEX, if you guys can sort this for all Irish servers it would be great, and it would show us all your great networking powers

bk

ro2 wrote:

ntl only announce their business customers routes on the INEX, the broadband connections all go through the UK.

Well if they want to be a major player in the Irish market, then they need to change that. Eircom and most of the other DSL players go through INEX.

CrimE wrote:

Pings for me as a gamer are very important so I have to get this sorted. I really would like ntl's ul/dl speeds. But i have seen far more threads started about the poor standard at times of ntl's connections than anyone elses. Should i be worried; is it as bad as it sounds?

Well pings to UK servers are generally better with NTL then with Netsource DSL. The pings to Irish servers only surfer because they aren't going through INEX. As we have seen with the sudden improvement to boards.ie, if they fix this, then pings to Irish servers would actually be better on NTL then with Eircoms DSL.

As for the problems people have been having, most of them have only been in one area of Dublin (D15 I think) that has been having lots of problems, personally I haven't had any problems and I think it is just as stable as DSL.

ro2

bk wrote:

Well if they want to be a major player in the Irish market, then they need to change that. Eircom and most of the other DSL players go through INEX.

I deleted that because they've obviously just changed their policy

They don't peer directly with hosting365 that's why it's going through Smart Telecom. Hopefully when UGC comes in they'll sort all this.

bk

ro2 wrote:

I deleted that because they've obviously just changed their policy

They don't peer directly with hosting365 that's why it's going through Smart Telecom. Hopefully when UGC comes in they'll sort all this.

I'll also happily delete my posts when they do it for all Irish servers and don't just show us how great it could be by doing it just for boards

BTW To all the guys and gals at NTL, thanks for the great work, keep it up.