cinematography question

reece

Hi,
I'm looking to replicate the trick I've seen in 'The quick and the Dead'. The subject is in focus and the background is out of focus. The camera remains fixed on the subject and the subject is framed the same throughout the shot - but the background is then pulled closer as the shot progresses. The background remains out of focus. Its the pulling of the background closer whilst leaving the subject framed the same that I am looking to replicate. Any suggestions welcome.
cheers,
reece

dlofnep

I think I know what you are on about.. You can do that very easily on a low budget scale. You take two shots. One with the background and one with the background and the foreground object.

You draw an outline around the the foreground object and everything outside the outline will be then made transparent. You can do this in photoshop. Then you drop the foreground over the shot of the background with no foreground. Here you have two dynamic shots. You can now alter the foreground or the background individually.

Just use a timeframe to zoom into the background so it will give the appearance that the background is zooming in while the foreground is not. This kinda shot is hard to do however with a non-static object in the foreground (ie: a character that moves). it becomes more complex then as you will have to use a matte.

I hope that helped.

Lump

... Or track in and zoom out at the same time.

John

reece

cheers to both of you, I'll give the track in zoom out a shot first.
If that doesn't work I go the photoshop way - cheers,
reece

mycroft

reece wrote:

cheers to both of you, I'll give the track in zoom out a shot first.
If that doesn't work I go the photoshop way - cheers,
reece

The shot you are refering to is technically called a "crash zoom" first notable attempt was by Hitchcock to some success in the film vertigo. A young Steven Speilberg used to to perfection in the 2nd shark attack sequence (shot on roy schedier) in Jaws. It's often used now and it's dramatic effect has been dulled by repeated use of it in television (notably star trek) still it's a good trick to learn.

You need a steady dolly preferable mounted on boards to do it properly, and aim low the trick is to reframe the sky or a higher object like a tree.

Lump

Isnt a crash zoom the type of tat they use on Pop videos/ top of the pops, where they zoom in and out a lot?

John

mycroft

Lump wrote:

Isnt a crash zoom the type of tat they use on Pop videos/ top of the pops, where they zoom in and out a lot?

John

No this the actual technical term for this type of move, what the use in pop videos is just bloody annoying

dlofnep

Lump wrote:

... Or track in and zoom out at the same time.

John

Silly me.

reece

mycroft wrote:

The shot you are refering to is technically called a "crash zoom" ...............used to to perfection in the 2nd shark attack sequence (shot on roy schedier) in Jaws.

yep, remember that scene. Thanks for the term - it's hard to track down the shot I'm after when I don't know the term . Still a bit dodgy about the technique though.... will look it up . Lump, tried your suggestion last night but the girlfriend wasn't willing to take part in it so had to use a wine bottle....didn't work but will try again........
cheers,
reece

davmigil

The diner scene in Goodfellas used that dolly/zoom technique to great effect

mycroft

reece wrote:

yep, remember that scene. Thanks for the term - it's hard to track down the shot I'm after when I don't know the term . Still a bit dodgy about the technique though.... will look it up . Lump, tried your suggestion last night but the girlfriend wasn't willing to take part in it so had to use a wine bottle....didn't work but will try again........
cheers,
reece

get a steady dolly mounted on plywood boards, if you don't have a dolly get a wheel chair, lay the boards down flat, in a path leading towards the shot. frame it, have someone push you towards the target while you zoom out.

It is a tricky shot to perfect, and will take practice.

The diner scene in Goodfellas used that dolly/zoom technique to great effect

Which diner scene?

reece

cheers for clearing that up for me

Lump

mycroft wrote:

Which diner scene?

He's talking about the scene in the restraunt.... Not really the same effect, just possibly the longest single shot. They use steady cam, and it was actually done in one. You know the one where he is introduced to all the mob guys, "This is Jimmy two times, cause he says everything twice." "I'm gonna get the papers, get the papers."

Etc etc....

Oh I found a link.... http://www.phenry.org/movies/movienight/goodfellas.php

Incidently, I thought it was Johnny two times, but according to that webbie I was wrong. I need to watch goodfellas again!



John

davmigil

No, no, no! _The_ diner scene. You all need to watch this movie again! Think I will to, love that movie.

It's the scene where Liota and Denero are talking in the Diner (it's late on in the film when they are both about to betray one another). You see them sitting opposite each other and a street scene in the window behind. As they talk the shot stays framed the same all the time but the background gets slowly pulled in.

Like the Jaws one, but much slower. Called a controlled contra zoom sometimes.

Incidentally, I have never seen it, but Aleksandr Sokurov's 'Russian Ark' is the new king of the longest steady cam ever. Apparently the whole film is filmed in one take and is ~90 minutes long. I don't suppose Xtra-vision will have it though

Furp

I think that type of shot is also called a trombone shot or contra zoom, I thought a crash zoom was when you had a very quick, fast and unsteady zoom in/out shot such as the type you see in the new star was films battle shots, where they zoom from wide angle into a ship very quickly.

Two excellent Cinematography sites which have lots of good info and tips on shooting and achieving looks and effect although I can't find this particular technique.

http://www.cinematography.net/
http://www.rondexter.com/

Lump

Just thought I'd point out that this is the audio video Editing board Try stay somewhere midly on that course.... although there isn't a camera/camcorder board is there? So fine I guess..... Ignore me!

John

reece

finally wrenched the girlfriend/my free-bee actress away from 'big brother' for 20 minutes and got the shot working. Handheld and walking forwards/backwards was a pain (no dolly). Tried both shots - moving out zooming in bringing the background towards the subject, and moving in zooming out bringing the subject away from the background - 2 nice shots either way. I'm going to use it on a wedding video I'm producing / editing where the groom spots the bride for the first time as she's just about to walk down the aisle - should get a laugh when they see the end product,
Thanks for the help,
reece

trekkypj

Might be an idea to sticky a few links etc... for websites on cinematography in general...

faceman

I remember it being called a tiger zoom on set one day. Jaws is my favourite. Things its one of the first too?

BlitzKrieg

the first was vertigo i think? I've always heard of it being referred to as the vertigo shot.

Lump wrote:

Just thought I'd point out that this is the audio video Editing board Try stay somewhere midly on that course.... although there isn't a camera/camcorder board is there? So fine I guess..... Ignore me!

John

Thats why we have a film production board now (i know this thread appeared before it was created.) So if you get any future threads like this shove them over my way. (Edit: wait i'm a mod here too..woohoo)

monkeyfudge

I always thought the crash zoom was when you went through a full zoom in about 1/2 a second and usually in on someones face... that's the one that is used in a lot Jesus Franco's films such as Vampyros Lesbos.

I've always called the zoom that's been talked about here the 'Dolly Zoom'... but I think I have heard it refered to as the 'Vertigo Zoom' as well.

I once tried doing the dolly zoom in a documentary, just for a laugh really... but you should be able to get something slightly resembling the effect with very little effort. But a dolly is essential.. that or a shopping trolly and a camera operator with a steady hand.

BlitzKrieg

shopping cart is always last on my list on makeshift dolly's even with someone in it holding the camera steady it rattles way too much.

(Gaffered taped a camera to a projector stand on wheels and rolled a carpet out once...that was cool.)