Changing gears and Contradictory Driving Instructors

preilly79

Hi all

i've been driving for almost a year while waiting for my test date.

i just wanted to ask eveybody, both learners and experienced drivers, how you have been taught to change gears while slowing down, how you did it in your driving test, and the effect (if any) it had on the result of your test.

i ask this because last weekend i took a lesson with a driving instructor in the area which my test is due to take place in two weeks time. the instructor was an older man and came across as being very very experienced and gave me lots of positive feedback. while driving around the town i came down through the gears in as i approached a red light or stop sign etc. this is how i was taught when i took my first lessons a year ago and this is how i believe i should drive.

however, i took another driving lesson from another school last night. i drove for ten minutes while the instructor said nothing in order to get a feel for my driving. after 10 minutes he told me that while coming to a stop i can clutch in just before im about to stop, put on the handbrake (if necessary) and then engage first gear in preperation to move off.

this shocked me. is this not coasting? or is coasting putting your foot on the clutch and allowing the car to very slowly decelerate and come to a stop? i had ALWAYS assumed that going down through the gears was correct as it provided some assistance to the brakes and allowed you to accelerate in the correct gear if the traffic in front of you moved off and there was no need to stop.

obviously, this will be an important part of my test so your opinions and feedback will help me very much in clearing up this contradiction!

cheers

Curran

preilly79 wrote:

While driving around the town i came down through the gears in as i approached a red light or stop sign etc. this is how i was taught when i took my first lessons a year ago and this is how i believe i should drive.

He told me that while coming to a stop i can clutch in just before the im about to stop, put on the handbrake (if necessary) and then engage first gear in preperation to move off.

this shocked me. is this not coasting?

As far as i know both are very acceptable.....as long as when you are not down shifting that you dont ride the clutch from the moment you put your foot on the brake! You are supposed to drop the clutch just before the car cuts out as you are coming to a stop!

I used the downshift way when i was learning and then in a pre-test the insturctor said to use the clutch way!

I mixed and matched in my test!
Used the clutch when i knew i would be coming to a definate stop!
And down shifted as i was coming to a stop but cud see the traffic ahead moving, so that if the cars ahead started moving before i came to a complete stop id be in an appropriate gear to continue progressing!

I PASSED

Hope this is helpful to you and good luck in your test !!!!
Be sure to let us know how you get on!

DubTony

Curran wrote:

Used the clutch when i knew i would be coming to a definate stop!
And down shifted as i was coming to a stop but cud see the traffic ahead moving, so that if the cars ahead started moving before i came to a complete stop id be in an appropriate gear to continue progressing!

I'd be of the opinion that what Curran says here is probably the best way to handle it. I was taught to always come down through the gears, being careful not to coast, but that was over 20 years ago. People were taught to use the engine to slow the car (with the brakes) because brakes were supposedly unreliable. I'd say that kind of teaching goes back a further 20 years. In general it's not taught today. Use the brakes and clutch just before stopping.

Today I just use the brake and let the gearbox do the work itself

Ernie Ball

Well, if the choice is between:

1) braking while in 3rd (or 4th) and only putting the clutch in when it's time to stop, or

2) braking and downshifting through the gears to 2nd and then putting in the clutch

I can't see how anyone can advise one to do the former.

Doesn't (1) necessarily involve lugging the engine? Doing (2) means always having the engine at appropriate revs: better for the engine and better for taking off again if the traffic starts to move.

A third option, coasting with the clutch in, can be ruled out entirely I assume.

Funkstard

So I presume it's entirely wrong just to stick it in neutral and to just slow down with the brake? At the start I slowed down through the gears but it was always very jumpy and I had the clutch in most of the time, so in the end I just stuck it in neutral and broke to a standstill without worrying about gears or clutches

Curran

Funkstard wrote:

So I presume it's entirely wrong just to stick it in neutral and to just slow down with the brake? At the start I slowed down through the gears but it was always very jumpy and I had the clutch in most of the time, so in the end I just stuck it in neutral and broke to a standstill without worrying about gears or clutches

Yeah its very WRONG just to pop it into neutral and coast to a stop!
Very jumpy going down the gears???...........still should be able to do it smoothly...even if you dont need it for the test........perhaps demonstrating this is nesscessary in the test.....as i did it both ways as i mentioned earlier!

V1llianous

I was advised to downshift to make for a smoother stop - more control, smoother ride = more relaxed tested.

My main habit for this is to downshift from 4th to 2nd and skip third.

I mixed my downshifting with conventional downshifting and passed with flying colours !

Ernie Ball

Funkstard wrote:

So I presume it's entirely wrong just to stick it in neutral and to just slow down with the brake? At the start I slowed down through the gears but it was always very jumpy and I had the clutch in most of the time, so in the end I just stuck it in neutral and broke to a standstill without worrying about gears or clutches

Yeah, you don't want to stick it in neutral and testers will fail for that since you don't have control of the car.

To avoid jumpiness, you need to use the accelerator as you downshift, upping the revs so that the engine speed in the lower gear is better matched to the speed of the car. Just a slight increase as you release the clutch.

fletch

This has been argued so many times on boards now it's getting boring....each time coming no closer to a definitive answer.

steviec

Ok, I know that coasting is wrong and I know that your not 'in control of the car' but I still don't understand how this is so.

Hold in the clutch and brake - you dont have to think about gears, you can keep both hands on the wheel and observe the road better, there's no 'jumpiness', if traffic starts moving you already have the clutch in and can very quickly and easily switch to the appropriate gear.

The correct way - you have to concentrate on more things, the car can be jumpy if you don't do it perfectly, just seems so much more awkward to do. And I haven't noticed how I'm in better control of the car. If anything my control of the car is worse because I'm trying to concentrate on changing gears instead of just comfortably controlling the car with the brake and observing the road.

The only situation I can possibly see where the second option is better is where the brakes simply failed then you'd be better in the second solution but wouldn't you notice that straight away and take action accordingly?

Ernie Ball

steviec wrote:

Ok, I know that coasting is wrong and I know that your not 'in control of the car' but I still don't understand how this is so.

Hold in the clutch and brake - you dont have to think about gears, you can keep both hands on the wheel and observe the road better, there's no 'jumpiness', if traffic starts moving you already have the clutch in and can very quickly and easily switch to the appropriate gear.

Things happen fast in cars. Putting the car in gear may seem quick to you, but it's not as quick as having the car in gear already. Seconds count.

The correct way - you have to concentrate on more things, the car can be jumpy if you don't do it perfectly, just seems so much more awkward to do. And I haven't noticed how I'm in better control of the car. If anything my control of the car is worse because I'm trying to concentrate on changing gears instead of just comfortably controlling the car with the brake and observing the road.

All that this means is that you need more practice. I don't think about or concentrate on downshifting any more than I think about upshifting. I just do it. You should try to watch someone who knows how to do it and see that it doesn't make the car jumpy if done right.

The only situation I can possibly see where the second option is better is where the brakes simply failed then you'd be better in the second solution but wouldn't you notice that straight away and take action accordingly?

What action would that be?

steviec

Ernie Ball wrote:

Things happen fast in cars. Putting the car in gear may seem quick to you, but it's not as quick as having the car in gear already. Seconds count.

Unless you intend to be on top of the rear bumper of the car in front of you the .1 of a second it takes to change into gear when you seem him starting to move will have no effect whatsoever.

All that this means is that you need more practice. I don't think about or concentrate on downshifting any more than I think about upshifting. I just do it. You should try to watch someone who knows how to do it and see that it doesn't make the car jumpy if done right.

With enough practice you might be able to drive with one arm tied behind your back without making the car jumpy, that doesn't mean you should try. Fair enough, it's probably not that difficult when you get used to it, but it still seems like your just adding work, however little, that's not necessary?

What action would that be?

You'd first press the brake before changing down to third anyway, so regardless of which method you used you'd notice if there was something wrong with the brakes straight away and change down the gears to slow down the car at the same rate.

Ernie Ball

steviec wrote:

Unless you intend to be on top of the rear bumper of the car in front of you the .1 of a second it takes to change into gear when you seem him starting to move will have no effect whatsoever.

That is true. However, it is not the only situation in which you might need to accelerate. I'm thinking (and the authorities and testers are thinking) about emergency situations where you have to move the car NOW.

With enough practice you might be able to drive with one arm tied behind your back without making the car jumpy, that doesn't mean you should try. Fair enough, it's probably not that difficult when you get used to it, but it still seems like your just adding work, however little, that's not necessary?

Ah, but it is necessary. If you are rolling in neutral you can only do one thing: stop. If you are rolling in gear, you can do two things: stop or go. That makes a world of difference. It's just as important to be able to go as it is to stop.

Delta_ie

Just wondering did the government ever release a curriculum for the driving test on what is right and what is wrong.

AMurphy

Delta_ie wrote:

Just wondering did the government ever release a curriculum for the driving test on what is right and what is wrong.

I'm not sure there is a definite right or wrong and a lot of variations of each.

I'd say it depends, as illustrated in previous replies. Depends on whether you are dong a fast stop, slow stop, slow down to yield and accelerate off again, (or the traditional "rolling stop"), downhill or uphill, etc.

I'd say I cover all of them at one point or another, however, I'll tend to agree with, no coasting with the carin a low gear an the clutch in, no coasting arond turns as I see done here, no engine shuddering and stalling.

Otherwise, anything that feels smooth and controlled shoudl be fine.

Calibos

I don't coast. I like to feel more in control when coming to a stop and also to have the ability to accelerate again if the traffic starts moving before I've stopped. If you are coasting with the clutch in and/or the stick in neutral and you need to accelerate you can find yourself selecting the wrong gear and stalling the engine by selecting to high a gear or being thrown into the windshield if you select too low a gear. If you downshift as you are slowing down you are obviously in the correct gear appropriate to that speed if you then want to accelerate, whereas with coasting in neutral you aren't getting any aural feedback from the revs of the engine or physical vibration feedback that the engine is/would labour in the specific gear you might select to accelerate. I'm not explaining it very well, but what I mean is in neutral you aren't getting any of the feedback from the engine that lets you instinctively know what gear is appropriate should you decide to accelerate again.

I don't however downshift through all the gears, just 6th 5th 4th and 3rd. Depends really. Might go 6th to 4th to third, 6th to 5th to third. Depends how quickly I am decelerating. Third is nearly always the last gear before I clutch in and stop.

AMurphy

Calibos wrote:

...... I'm not explaining it very well, ......

Seems an excllent summary and reads very well from this end.

gurramok

My tester had advised me when my test was over that only stop in 3rd and 4th gears when you dont have time to downshift to lower gears(3rd better than 4th), it is perfectly acceptable in the circumstances like quick stops.
Only do the downshifting when doing a normal stop and appropiate speed and as said, never coast, doing alot of it can fail you.

Ernie Ball

Fuel for the fire:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980227.html

preilly79

hey everybody,
many thanks for the informative replies. i think the main thing i can grasp from what you have said is that both methods are ok provided they are performed under the correct circumstances, are done smothly and most of all done safely.

i'll update you on monday the 13th and let you know how things went! however, apologies in advance if my spelling and grammar is not good ... no doubt i'll be drinking at home afterwards irrespective of the result!

cheers!

preilly79

just to update you, i PASSED! thanks for all your help guys!

Mick Jockson

Cool, well done! Was this your 1st attempt?
Did u just use a mixture of both slowing methods or did you stick to any particular one?

preilly79

Mick Jockson wrote:

Cool, well done! Was this your 1st attempt?
Did u just use a mixture of both slowing methods or did you stick to any particular one?

yeah, it was my first attempt so i was dead chuffed when the tester told me i passed! as i was waiting to be called in an old dear came out crying and told me she failed. i felt so sorry for her

to answer your question, i used a mixture of both. if i was coming up to a sharp turn and knew the coast was clear to turn i slowed down and then shifted from 4th to second, then made the turn. but if the road was busy (cars in front or behind) i would come down through the gears.

then, to confuse i kinda mixed and matched! i guess i just used whatever suited the situation best.