A seven-year-old boy (ffs!)

MadsL

A seven-year-old boy has been left behind in Ireland after his parents and four-year-old brother were deported to Romania, it emerged today.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=119131420&p=yy9y3zxxx

Errmmm....

Convention on the Rights of the Child
Article 2
1. States Parties shall respect and ensure the rights set forth in the present Convention to each child within their jurisdiction without discrimination of any kind, irrespective of the child's or his or her parent's or legal guardian's race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national, ethnic or social origin, property, disability, birth or other status.

Article 9
1. States Parties shall ensure that a child shall not be separated from his or her parents against their will, except when competent authorities subject to judicial review determine, in accordance with applicable law and procedures, that such separation is necessary for the best interests of the child. Such determination may be necessary in a particular case such as one involving abuse or neglect of the child by the parents, or one where the parents are living separately and a decision must be made as to the child's place of residence.

“Why are we spending money to deport people to Romania, when in two years’ time it will be part of the EU?”

- Rosanna Flynn, Residents Against Racism

Exactly - Nail.Head

MadsL

Actually, while I was reading this I thought of my own daughter, not much older and imagined what it would be like for her if myself and her mother suddenly disappeared one day, and how someone could even begin to explain it to her. And then I thought about how much I would like to be knocking on McDowell's door in Ranelagh, just as he was having his cocoa, and delivering this poor kid to him to look after tonight and do some explaining to.

Just when I thought it was possible not to hate the GNIB any more, I now throughly despise them for this. Do NOT get me started.

KnowItAll

MadsL wrote:

Actually, while I was reading this I thought of my own daughter, not much older and imagined what it would be like for her if myself and her mother suddenly disappeared one day, and how someone could even begin to explain it to her. And then I thought about how much I would like to be knocking on McDowell's door in Ranelagh,

What did McDowell do? McDowell is only deporting failed asylum seekers. I'd blame the parents myself.

MadsL

McDowell is only deporting failed asylum seekers.

..and breaking Article 9 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Tell me, are you happy that your taxes are paying to deport people who will have the right to live and work here in 2 years time?

Simi

All in favour of shooting McDowell raise your hands. And wtf are u blaming the parents for exactly?

Quantum

Sounds to me like MacDowell is doing a damned fine job.

"the child was taken from school by relatives with whom he is now staying."

So the family decided to leave the child behind with relatives.

All this stuff about human rights is meaningless. The Government did not keep the child here. It did not take the child from the family..

The FAMILY decided to leave the child here. My only view is that the child should have been deported too, unless the family here are legally resident and have legal agreements to keep the child.

MadsL

The Government did not keep the child here. It did not take the child from the family..

No, rather the GNIB took the family from the child. In contravention of Article 9.

How do you know the family decided to leave the child here?

Draupnir

have you not heard the full story on the news? the guards went to the school to get the little illegal immigrant and he had already been whipped out by his "relative". so the guards went ahead and deported the family.

i personally think that was a bit harsh, maybe they could have locked the family up till they tracked down the kid, but still, an illegal is an illegal irrespective. if the family hadnt arranged for him to be taken out of school, he'd be safe and happy with rest of them in Bucharest right now.

and wats this bull about "Romania will be in the eu in 2 years let them stay". thats not a certainty, sure there might be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark next tuesday week. we might aswell not bother doing anything because it might not make sense in the future.

KnowItAll

MadsL wrote:

..and breaking Article 9 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Tell me, are you happy that your taxes are paying to deport people who will have the right to live and work here in 2 years time?

I don't think there is enough deportations to be honest. Only a tiny percentage of failed asylum seekers are deported.

Simi

Draupnir wrote:

and wats this bull about "Romania will be in the eu in 2 years let them stay". thats not a certainty, sure there might be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark next tuesday week. we might aswell not bother doing anything because it might not make sense in the future.

I swear to god you right wing idiots get dumber by the minute. Yes lets spend thousands even millions deporting a few hundred people every year so they can come back in 2 years time. So they're illegal immigrants atm. Does that harm you in some way?

KnowItAll

Simi wrote:

I swear to god you right wing idiots get dumber by the minute. Yes lets spend thousands even millions deporting a few hundred people every year so they can come back in 2 years time. So they're illegal immigrants atm.

You seem more worried about the millions.

Simi wrote:

Does that harm you in some way?

The more foreigners in the country the more it damages the culture of the country. I care about Irish culture but it's clear some people on this forum couldn't care less.

Draupnir

Simi wrote:

I swear to god you right wing idiots get dumber by the minute. Yes lets spend thousands even millions deporting a few hundred people every year so they can come back in 2 years time. So they're illegal immigrants atm. Does that harm you in some way?

Doesnt harm me at all directly anyway, but its illegal. If I rob the shop down the road from me and you arent affected but the poor clown who owns it ends up on the dole, is that alright?

Im not Right Wing either, so dont make assumptions and dont call people names when ya dont know them. These things have to be done for economic, cultural and legal reasons and I have no problem with people being deported from a country they have no right to be in.

Its nothing to do with race, creed, gender or sexuality. Its just the law.

Simi

KnowItAll wrote:

You seem more worried about the millions.
The more foreigners in the country the more it damages the culture of the country. I care about Irish culture but it's clear some people on this forum couldn't care less.

I was trying to put it in terms you'd understand. As for your culture remark i can't even be bothered responding.....i'm goin to bed. You sound alot like Michael Howard btw.

MadsL

wats this bull about "Romania will be in the eu in 2 years let them stay". thats not a certainty, sure there might be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark next tuesday week. we might aswell not bother doing anything because it might not make sense in the future.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/enlargement/docs/pdf/result_of_neg_final_council_version_st05859_en0405.pdf
Report on the Results of the Negotiations on the Accession of Bulgaria and Romania to the European Union

This document is based on the assumption that Bulgaria and Romania will join the EU together on 1 January 2007. It reflects the state of play of 14 December 2004 when all 31 chapters with Bulgaria
and Romania have been closed

I await the EU document on the results of "the boy wat can swim faster than a shark" study.

The cost of the last set of deportations (Mostly Romanians) was over €120,000, not including hotels and overtime payments to gardai.

The specially chartered 737 flight from Dublin to Bucharest and on to Moldova cost over €120,000. Of the 64 people on board, 52 were Romanian, while the remaining 12 were Moldovan.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0212/asylum.html

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

MadsL

I have a problem with the State breaking the UN Conventions, especially when it comes to the rights of the child, specifically when they are this young. Does that answer your question?

Draupnir

MadsL wrote:

I await the EU document on the results of "the boy wat can swim faster than a shark" study.

Its being prepared in at The EU office in Slough right now, by one Gareth Keenan MEP.

MadsL wrote:

The cost of the last set of deportations (Mostly Romanians) was over €120,000, not including hotels and overtime payments to gardai.

If those 64 people had stayed here, at €70 a week cost to the state, thats €224,000 spent just to let them live in our country. I like option 1 better. Save 100 grand and remove people deemed not to be eligible to live here.

If I get tossed out of America for not having a Visa, would there be a load of Americans upset about it? Doubt it.

MadsL

The more foreigners in the country the more it damages the culture of the country.

Like to explain how? Like to explain how it does not enhance the culture of the country?

Guy:Incognito

Simi wrote:

I swear to god you right wing idiots get dumber by the minute. Yes lets spend thousands even millions deporting a few hundred people every year so they can come back in 2 years time. So they're illegal immigrants atm. Does that harm you in some way?

So if theres a law that MIGHT be getting changed in the future, its ok to break it before its changed?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Draupnir

MadsL wrote:

Convention on the Rights of the Child
Article 2
1. States Parties shall respect and ensure the rights set forth in the present Convention to each child within their jurisdiction without discrimination of any kind, irrespective of the child's or his or her parent's or legal guardian's race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national, ethnic or social origin, property, disability, birth or other status.

They didnt, his family were removed for being illegals and they tried to get rid of him too, he's the one who did a legger. No break of the convention here.

MadsL wrote:

Article 9
1. States Parties shall ensure that a child shall not be separated from his or her parents against their will, except when competent authorities subject to judicial review determine, in accordance with applicable law and procedures, that such separation is necessary for the best interests of the child. Such determination may be necessary in a particular case such as one involving abuse or neglect of the child by the parents, or one where the parents are living separately and a decision must be made as to the child's place of residence.

It was his family who split him up when the Aunty removed him from school and hid him from the Guards. Not the state.

Guy:Incognito

What happend is apparently clear enough. Relatives or friends of relatives of the child basically snatched him from school and are hiding him. Deportations cant be indefinately put on hold till they find one person whos missing. How much would it cost if 10 or twenty of the familys getting deported ha to be detained for a couple of months each while members of the family who are in hiding are found.

Draupnir

Plus, ya cant quote "Residents against Racism" on this, they are hardly an impartial source. Just another gang of PC mad fools running around on a crusade.

I totally agree with things being done lawfully and have had a very close relationship with a great many asylum seekers over the past 10 years. I would consider some of them to be of great benefit to the nation so Im not being stupid here and I do have an idea of what Im talking about.

A Dub in Glasgo

I could well imagine the hyteria and absolute condemnation if the following happened by replacing Ireland with the USA and Romanian with Irish.

I remember the 1980s very well when our TDs were demanding the right of Irish citizens to stay illegally in America and asking the Americans if they would introduce some sort of green card amnesty. It just so happened that illegal Irish people abroad kept the unemployment figures at home down. The stench of hypocrisy is really sticking.

A seven-year-old boy has been left behind in America after his parents and four-year-old brother were deported to Ireland, it emerged today.

The family, who are Irish, were among a group of more than 50 asylum seekers who were arrested and flown from New York Airport to Ireland last night.

An NYPD spokeswoman confirmed 37 men, 10 women and eight children had been flown out of New York yesterday and that a child had been left in Manhatten while his family were deported.

She said the child was taken from school by relatives with whom he is now staying.

The spokeswoman said the incident had been reported to the Health Board and the matter was now in their hands.

Rosanna Flynn, spokeswoman for Residents Against Racism, said the family had been in the USA for three years.

Ms Flynn said Police National Bureau of Immigration (PNBI) had gone into the boy’s school looking for him, but he was with a relative, so they took his parents without him.

She said the Education Minister had already called for an end to incidents of the PNBI going into schools and said questions would be asked in the parliament over the issue.

Ms Flynn added the boy’s mother had been very upset at New York Airport.

“We’re calling again for asylum to be taken out of the hands of politicians and given to a body such as a human rights commission, because it’s a human rights issue,” she said.

Ms Flynn also said the anti-racism group was demanding greater transparency in asylum process which she said was currently “done so secretly”.

“Why are we spending money to deport people to Ireland, when in two years’ time it will be part of the USA?” she added.

Ireland is one of five countries with which a new accelerated process is in place to deal with asylum applications

Draupnir

Jaysus, how long have you been working on that?

In fairness, we would all think it was terrible, but anyone with some cop on would say, fair enough, tossed out for being illegal in the country. No qualms there. When it became apparent he was taken and hidden by the family then nobody with half a brain could have sympathy.

Sure hes with his "family" hes grand. I loved going to my aunties when I was a 7 year old. She had a cat.

A Dub in Glasgo

Draupnir wrote:

Jaysus, how long have you been working on that?

Eh?

In fairness, we would all think it was terrible,

Would you now? hmmm

but anyone with some cop on would say, fair enough, tossed out for being illegal in the country. No qualms there. When it became apparent he was taken and hidden by the family then nobody with half a brain could have sympathy.

Unlike this country for having the large testicles to actually demand that our illegals stay put!!

Sure hes with his "family" hes grand. I loved going to my aunties when I was a 7 year old. She had a cat.

I would love to see you try it in the circumstances above, you would have been crying for your ma

MadsL

What happend is apparently clear enough. Relatives or friends of relatives of the child basically snatched him from school and are hiding him. Deportations cant be indefinately put on hold till they find one person whos missing. How much would it cost if 10 or twenty of the familys getting deported ha to be detained for a couple of months each while members of the family who are in hiding are found.

Rte has it that the child will be deported tommorrow. I still maintain that the State acted against the UN Convention and broke Article 9. Read it again,
Article 9
1. States Parties shall ensure that a child shall not be separated from his or her parents against their will.

Nothing here about 'aunties' etc. PARENTS.

Trust me, I have dealt with the GNIB on many occasions and they are not above this sort of thing.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

MadsL

Has it occured to you that since the parents were detained when they went to sign at the garda station, they may have arranged that the child be picked up by a relative, fearing that they may be no-one to collect him from school. I don't imagine that it implies that they intended to leave him in the country. It would not suprise me to hear that the gardai wouldn't pick up the child when he wasn't in school... 'ah, c'mon now, we'll miss that flight, he'll be grand, off to the airport, so!'

Article 9 broken.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Kev

So all you need is a kid and you can't be sent to jail as it would be separating a child from its parents against their will ?