The new manager for Republic of Ireland poll

Guy:Incognito

KdjaC wrote:

Has your mate won 2 league titles, been picked by UEFA be a technical director, got every possible UEFA coaching badge, managed international youths and national side? if so get him in there.

Lots of things look good on paper. Passing tests is the easy bit of management. I'm fairly sure if I put my mind and time to it, I could get the badges.

The fact of the matter is that international management shoul dbe the pinnacle of your career, not a stepping stone to management in England (im not saying thats the route Kerr will go)

Guy:Incognito

KdjaC wrote:

Has your mate won 2 league titles,

He might have done next year, and by your reckoning, would be better than Mourinho's Chelsea record.

KdjaCL

Stekelly wrote:

He might have done next year, and by your reckoning, would be better than Mourinho's Chelsea record.

So by yours when Mourinho was manager of crap portugese side ,was he a crap manager? Had to start somewhere and prove himself.

Hopefully Kerr wont go to England after ireland but shall return "home".


kdjac

Guy:Incognito

KdjaC wrote:

So by yours when Mourinho was manager of crap portugese side ,was he a crap manager? Had to start somewhere and prove himself

Theres a big difference between amatuer and Professional, wherever you go.

KdjaC wrote:

Hopefully Kerr wont go to England after ireland but shall return "home".

So should he leave after this campaign and come back "home", Ireland will have had a manager who spent his whole career in the amatuer game, save for a period when the FAI saw fit to give him a job that really should be reserved for proven, top quality managers. Doesnt say much for us as a supposedly top 14 (I think) team in the world, or his ambition.

The bottom line is that he was hired because he's cheap and others didnt want the job.

KdjaCL

Stekelly wrote:

So should he leave after this campaign and come back "home", Ireland will have had a manager who spent his whole career in the amatuer game, save for a period when the FAI saw fit to give him a job that really should be reserved for proven, top quality managers. Doesnt say much for us as a supposedly top 14 (I think) team in the world, or his ambition.

The bottom line is that he was hired because he's cheap and others didnt want the job.

"a manager who spent his whole career in the IRISH game."


And what would be wrong with that?

Thats ****ing awesome imo better than any achievemnt some english lad with an irish granny ever got.
To manage the club you love, the country you love at all levels and to be successful........


/ me bows down to God err Kerr.


kdjac

Guy:Incognito

KdjaC wrote:

"a manager who spent his whole career in the IRISH game."


And what would be wrong with that?

Thats ****ing awesome imo better than any achievemnt some english lad with an irish granny ever got.
To manage the club you love, the country you love at all levels and to be successful........

Unfortunatley all the love in the world doesnt make up for a lack of ability at this level. Players and managers dont go to England because they don't love Ireland, they go because they are ambitious, want to be the best and to test themselves against the best.

KdjaCL

Stekelly wrote:

Unfortunatley all the love in the world doesnt make up for a lack of ability at this level. Players and managers dont go to England because they don't love Ireland, they go because they are ambitious, want to be the best and to test themselves against the best.

Oh i thought it was money they went for.


kdjac

thejollyrodger

I think i was a bit hard on kerr before ...

Kerr's appointment marks a shift from an english based irish team to an irish based youth system. Its a bit shift. Mc Carthy did ok with all the irish grannies and we played a british type of football which everyone understood.

Things have changed a lot with Kerr. This team is very young without a whole pile of experience. Were trying to play better football without going route one(most of the time). Kerr has only experience underage and in the EL so i dont expect him to hit the ground running. Elliott and Mc Geady havent much experience at international level and it takes about 15 games to get up to speed.

But Kerr is a smart and i think he will learn from these tough lessons. Management is a funny business. There are many different types of manager.. from kevin keegan who waits till there is a few good results and then just gets behind the team without much knowledge of the game.... to Fergie who ruled with an iron fist at one stage and knew a lot.

All the players have played under kerr before I think all the players will get behind Kerr after these results. All the senior players are behind him inc. most importantly KEANO. Kerr has mended all the fences with the players. The fact were in a battle now, all the players will just rally around kerr and start playing for each other.

We could all pick the team here.. its not rocket science. i dont think a manager really has to manage a big club.. its a lot more to do with his personality and motivation factors.

thejollyrodger

Record in friendlies distorts the true picture
Emmet Malone
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2005/0607/2481912994SP1SOCEMMET.html
On Soccer: If Brian Kerr's side fail to qualify for next summer's World Cup finals in Germany, the Irish manager might actually hope they miss out by more than four points. There may, at least, be some consolation if France and Switzerland were to come here in the autumn, play well and win. There would be little comfort in being left to reflect on what might have been if only this Irish team had held their nerve home and away against an ordinary Israeli side.

The destination of the group's prized top-two spots remain to be decided, of course, with none of the "big four" having beaten another in eight games between them to date. Ireland's position, though, is much weaker than four days ago.

That the French have failed to beat any of their rivals is the most remarkable aspect of the competition so far, but the most disappointing is that the Irish, as second seeds, have failed to capitalise on the turmoil within Raymond Domenech's camp and now go into the summer, assuming they win tomorrow night, requiring at least two wins from three games if they are to have any chance of progressing.

The disappointment is compounded by the manner in which the team arrived at this point. Solid performances in Basle and Paris put Kerr's side in a decent position ahead of the Israel double-header, but much of what had been achieved has been undermined by two draws in which a combination of conservative calls and poor performances proved the team's undoing.

After Saturday's display it is hard to see how things are going to improve enough after the summer. The team's run without a win over decent opposition in a competitive game, which dates back well before Kerr's time in charge to the victory over the Netherlands in late 2001, continues, and there has been little to suggest they have the wherewithal to beat their chief rivals in September and October.

Beating one might suffice, but their prospects of doing even that will not be enhanced by the fact that France and Switzerland will come to Lansdowne Road believing that, even if they fall behind, there will be every reason to keep hanging in. The Irish, after all, have allowed leads to slip in three of the four games they have played against the group's better sides. The Israelis, by contrast, have come from behind in four of their five drawn encounters.

Kerr might point to the fact that during his two-and-a-half years in charge the Irish team have lost just twice (away to Switzerland and against Nigeria in the Unity Cup) in 28 games, but the lack of victories in key matches is a growing concern, and he conceded on Saturday that his side needed to make a breakthrough in this department if they are to qualify.

In fact, his overall record is flattered by a string of wins over highly-rated sides in friendly games which he and his players clearly took more seriously than their opposition did. A look at the qualification group tables, however, gives a truer picture of the respective strengths of the sides the Irish have faced recently.

During the build-up to last year's European Championships, the Czechs and Dutch were, amid some fanfare, beaten by the Irish, but having reached the semi-finals of the tournament in Portugal they are now five and six points clear respectively of Romania in Group One, who Marco van Basten's side beat 2-0 at the weekend.

Portugal lost in Dublin in February but lead Group Three by three points, and Croatia, who were beaten 1-0 at Lansdowne Road last November, have a one-point advantage over Sweden at the top of Group Eight.

For Kerr, even more than his players, the implications of such shortcomings are serious. Most of this squad will still be around when the qualifying campaign for the next European Championship gets under way in the autumn of next year, but there has been no clear indication from the FAI, whose new chief executive, John Delaney, opposed the appointment of the Dubliner in 2003, that the association will be offering a new deal before his current one runs out towards the end of this year.

The manager said a few weeks ago that he did not want to be left hanging on for a new contract as Ireland went into the last game of the qualifying tournament, against Switzerland in October, but it appears unlikely his future will be resolved before Ireland's participation or otherwise at next summer's finals is decided.

A near miss might yet make it difficult to justify not allowing Kerr another crack at bringing the team to a major championship, while the lack of an obviously better alternative may, in any case, restrict Delaney's room for manoeuvre. But qualification appears to be the only way Kerr will be assured of an extension.

If he and his players still achieve it after the weekend's performance then both will have earned their rewards. If not, then it's hard to imagine either would feel they are due much sympathy.



© The Irish Times

I think Malone hits the nail on the head. The friendlies mean nothing but make Kerr's record look good. The competitive matches were not so great. Losing out to inferior opposition with draws and the like.

Kerr might be out on his ear by the end of the year :eek:

eirebhoy

Stekelly wrote:

Theres a big difference between amatuer and Professional, wherever you go.




So should he leave after this campaign and come back "home", Ireland will have had a manager who spent his whole career in the amatuer game, save for a period when the FAI saw fit to give him a job that really should be reserved for proven, top quality managers. Doesnt say much for us as a supposedly top 14 (I think) team in the world, or his ambition.

The bottom line is that he was hired because he's cheap and others didnt want the job.

France were ranked number 1 in Europe when they appointed Domenech. Kerr was a lot more proven than him.

Saturday was probably the most luck I've ever seen one team get in 90 odd minutes.

A free-kick that never was which Israel scored a header from outside of the box which was basically hit and hope.

1 or 2 incidents which we should have got penalties from.

Sloppiness by O'Shea that he would get away with week in week out in the premiership. It was actually a miskick by Given that gave the Israeli's possession.

Duff blocking the ball from going over the Israeli line.

The keeper diving in front of an O'Shea header which somehow hit him underneath his arm.

A red card for O'Brien after the keeper grabbed him by the neck.

Israeli fouls upon fouls that gave the match no rhythm.

99 times out of 100 we would have won that match comfortably.

And btw, Jose Mourinho has put Duff up front a good few times in matches.

Kingp35

I think everyone here can agree that Ireland were very very unlucky against the israelis. Everything eirebhoy said will show for that it was just a very unlucky night with an absolutely ridiculous manager thrown in there. Why the hell didnt he book that keeper earlier in the game to put an end to all that feigning injury. Also the people who are bashing Gary Doherty and Irelands long ball are idiots. Kerr that got that bit absolutely right!! They were obviously having trouble winning headers and Kerr took advantage of that. Whats the point in trying to play through them when we did so much better playing the long ball. Doc set up chance after chance we just got unlucky. So all you moaners out there wise up and look at the game. You obviously have no idea about footballing tactics and using a teams weakness against them.

As for Brian Kerr I have to agree that he doesnt have the experience at the top level and KdjaC some of the points you are making dont make much sense. I agree you can only win the league you manage in bt im sure there are many of managers who have won countless league and cup titles in lower leagues and have coaching badges but the reason Kerr was never offered an English job is because he isnt good enough. If he was such a good manager he would manage at a higher level. I agree he is the best IRISHMAN for the job but why does it have to be an irishman. There are many foreign coaches out there too and I dont think the team should be missing out on a top class manager just because the FAI think he should be Irish. Kerr is qualified for the Irish job but as with any job you go for experience is important and Kerr doesnt have it.

The man has made many tactical errors in his time and taking duff off the wing and ruining the whole shape of the team was an absolute joke. He has an excellent young striker in Elliott on the bench who has been very unlucky not to have scored an international goal yet. Why the f**k didnt he bring him on. It really p1sses me off when simple fundamental decisions like this are made so wrong. Duff was imediately out of the game, our attacking aspect from midfield was totally dimished and we began to sit back as a result and let them into the game. As I said before ref decisiond let them equalise but it was also Kerrs tactics. By the time he realised he f**ked up the game was level. His tactics in the second half were spot on we were just too unlucky.

To sum up Kerr hasnt delivered in the right games. Winning friendless doesnt matter and so far he has failed to beat any good teams in a competative game. That speaks for itself. He is too negative, makes bad decisions, lacks experience, lacks respect and isnt good enough for us. This isnt a thing that has come up just because of one bad result there have been countless bad results. We cant sack him untill the campaign is over though and maybe he will realise his tactics are wrong but ireland are in real trouble at the moment and are in bad need of a real "leader" to sort us out.

Pigman II

Re emmet malone article.

Solid performance in Basel? What game was he watching? I've never seen an Irish side so stretched and disorganised. Our movement was witless and sluggish (I had to wipe my eyes just to make sure our boys weren't playing on quicksand) and for one of the rare times in his Irish career Shay Given actually made the difference for us in a game. We go on about all the points we've dropped in this group so far but I was mighty glad to get even 1 in Basel after the 90mins I had watched.

I agree with him 100% about the friendlies tho. I always take it with a pinch of salt when some people here bleat on about 'these results aren't good enough for the 12th best team in the world!' Wake up, we're not even the 12th best team in Europe ffs. I'd rate us about us 20th (in Europe) if our competitive record under Kerr is anything to go on so I for one will feel extremely fortunate if we qualify.

I'm just thankful we've landed a group with teams as mediocre as ourselves and that qualification is still in our own hands by some miracle of fate. By contrast had we been in Hollands or Portugals group then I reckon we'd already be waving goodbye to Germany right now.

KdjaCL

thejollyrodger wrote:

Losing out to inferior opposition with draws and the like.

Inferior to only those who are expectant, most here expect us to qualify others like myself hope to dear god we do and have felt that way since the draw was made.



kdjac

Slash/ED

Kerr doesn't lack ability, he has the ability to manage this team, he just seems to lack bottle at the crucial moments. Too many negative changes have cost us, same as the McCarthy era really. If he can be a little more positive at crucial times he'll be fine, but I do put him at fault for us only getting one point on saturday.

Dempsey

What about the players (O'Shea & Kilbane) that didnt perform blame the manager for their unusual bad performances?

Guy:Incognito

eirebhoy wrote:

France were ranked number 1 in Europe when they appointed Domenech. Kerr was a lot more proven than him..

As I said further back in the thread, look at how well they're doing too.

eirebhoy wrote:

A free-kick that never was which Israel scored a header from outside of the box which was basically hit and hope.

That header wa sscored because of inept defending and a "he'll never score from there " mentality.

eirebhoy wrote:

1 or 2 incidents which we should have got penalties from..

You cant count "should have been" penalty decisions any more than offside goals.

eirebhoy wrote:

Sloppiness by O'Shea that he would get away with week in week out in the premiership. It was actually a miskick by Given that gave the Israeli's possession..

It was a foul, he can have no arguements.The premiership is a lot more physical than other leagues. He would'nt have gotten away with it in Europe.

eirebhoy wrote:

The keeper diving in front of an O'Shea header which somehow hit him underneath his arm.

Thats what hes there for.

eirebhoy wrote:

A red card for O'Brien after the keeper grabbed him by the neck.

A mistake by the ref, he' shuman like the rest of us. These are the things he has to deal with.

eirebhoy wrote:

Israeli fouls upon fouls that gave the match no rhythm..

Tactics. Just like bringing on subs two minutes into injury time.

eirebhoy wrote:

99 times out of 100 we would have won that match comfortably..

It should'nt come to that, going defensive after 24 minutes is ridiculous. All in all, the game should have been sewn up early on. The Isrealis were all over the place for the first 20 mins, at which point Kerr decided to sit on his lead, and that gave Isreal the impetous (sp?) to attack us. Anyone who knows about football could predict that Isreal would at least draw level after the tactics changed. We invited them on.

Guy:Incognito

Kingp35 wrote:

I think everyone here can agree that Ireland were very very unlucky against the israelis. Everything eirebhoy said will show for that it was just a very unlucky night with an absolutely ridiculous manager thrown in there. Why the hell didnt he book that keeper earlier in the game to put an end to all that feigning injury. Also the people who are bashing Gary Doherty and Irelands long ball are idiots. Kerr that got that bit absolutely right!! They were obviously having trouble winning headers and Kerr took advantage of that. Whats the point in trying to play through them when we did so much better playing the long ball. Doc set up chance after chance we just got unlucky. So all you moaners out there wise up and look at the game. You obviously have no idea about footballing tactics and using a teams weakness against them.
.

Playing the long ball completely removed Duff, our best player on the pitch by far, from the game and stopped him doing what he does best. As for Doherty, I think we can do without a tall striker who can't head a ball even in the remotest direction of the goal.


Agree with the rest.

eirebhoy

Stekelly wrote:

It should'nt come to that, going defensive after 24 minutes is ridiculous. All in all, the game should have been sewn up early on. The Isrealis were all over the place for the first 20 mins, at which point Kerr decided to sit on his lead, and that gave Isreal the impetous (sp?) to attack us. Anyone who knows about football could predict that Isreal would at least draw level after the tactics changed. We invited them on.

I am pretty sure, if not positive, that Kerr did not take the 2-0 for granted. We have lost our lead twice in this campaign and Kerr got an absolute slating by the media. Elliott is not going to start tomorrow. That to me says Kerr hasn't got enough faith in him. Doc was last resort against the Israeli's so he wasn't coming on for a while. The only option was to put Duff up front. OK, me you and so many others would have put Elliott on but I don't think he was sitting on the lead (the formation never changed, just a crap change in players).

The answers to my other quotes were just mainly nit picking. I have the tape here in front of me looking at the incidents over and over.
The Israeli was lucky to score as he hit and hope.
Holland was unlucky the ref was shíte.
Given was unlucky with his kickout. As I said, I'll give you that one though as it can be put down as a mistake.
Keane was unlucky not to get a penalty.
The keeper was lucky that the ball hit him on the underside of his arm. he hadn't a clue where it was going.
O'Brien was unlucky to get sent off.

C'mon Stekelly. It is clear that you are nitpicking here trying to prove a point. There is no way you can deny that the Israeli's got a load of luck and most other days we would have won that game comfortably and we'd all be happy. Luck and referee's decisions plays a part in a lot of matches but its been a while since I've seen so much in one game.

Slash/ED

eirebhoy wrote:

C'mon Stekelly. It is clear that you are nitpicking here trying to prove a point. There is no way you can deny that the Israeli's got a load of luck and most other days we would have won that game comfortably and we'd all be happy. Luck and referee's decisions plays a part in a lot of matches but its been a while since I've seen so much in one game.

The last time I can remember is Ireland Holland in 2001

eirebhoy

Slash/ED wrote:

The last time I can remember is Ireland Holland in 2001

Actually that backs up my point perfectly. We were extremely lucky that day. Van Nistelrooy should have had a clear penalty. We won that game because we were very lucky and Mick went away a much better manager in a lot of people's eyes. We drew the game on Saturday because we were very unlucky and people are calling for Kerr's head.

Slash/ED

eirebhoy wrote:

Actually that backs up my point perfectly. We were extremely lucky that day. Van Nistelrooy should have had a clear penalty. We won that game because we were very lucky and Mick went away a much better manager in a lot of people's eyes. We drew the game on Saturday because we were very unlucky and people are calling for Kerr's head.

Well, they also felt Van Gaal was a worse manager, as despite the bad luck, it was as much his fault with his farcial 6 striker tactics that cost Holland. Same as why bad luck hurt us on saturday but Kerr shoulders some of the blame too imo. Though I wouldn't call for his head just for that, but we shouldn't have needed luck.

eirebhoy

Slash/ED wrote:

Well, they also felt Van Gaal was a worse manager, as despite the bad luck, it was as much his fault with his farcial 6 striker tactics that cost Holland. Same as why bad luck hurt us on saturday but Kerr shoulders some of the blame too imo. Though I wouldn't call for his head just for that, but we shouldn't have needed luck.

Some of the blame, not as much as people are giving him. Duff replaced Keane up front and Kilbane replaced Duff on the wing. The team was virtually the same otherwise. Kilbane played well on the wing (for once), arguably more effective than Duff was out there because of the amount of players on Duff. We played about a half an hour like that and Doc was thrown on. We lost our rhythm after the opening 15 minutes. Kerr is the easy target but I don't see how Duff playing up front meant Holland was going to tackle someone 35-40 yards out. All we can do is guess but we can't say for sure which is why I'll keep backing Kerr.

He's an idiot for not playing Elliott though but thats not going to be any different tomorrow night either.

thejollyrodger

the only thing about Elliott is that he is totally unproven. he hasnt ever started a competitive fixture so god knows what he is going to be like.

We only got the goal against the dutch back then cos ROY KEANE !!! YES ROY KEANE/LEGEND decided to take the pressure off the back 4 for a while and went on a foray up midfeild and set up the goal. Mc Carthy couldnt understand what was going on that day. I was sick to the back teeth and was shouting for Mc Carthy's head on a plate. We could have been in the fúckin Unity Cup again instead of JAPAN. I think its going to take another one of those days for us to qualify.

Kerr makes a lot of tatical bo bo's but we just dont have the players .. we need a full squad of good players and about 5 or 6 World Class players. we just have Duffer and Robbie and Keano and Keano is past his best a while now.

Jivin Turkey

Slash/ED wrote:

Well, they also felt Van Gaal was a worse manager, as despite the bad luck, it was as much his fault with his farcial 6 striker tactics that cost Holland.

Another demonstration of the benefit of hindsight. Kerr gets a bollocking for being too defensive. Van Gaal got a bollocking for playing too many attackers in a game that they needed to score.

An idea for all who think Kerr should go. Who should be the next Ireland manager?

Slash/ED

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Another demonstration of the benefit of hindsight. Kerr gets a bollocking for being too defensive. Van Gaal got a bollocking for playing too many attackers in a game that they needed to score.

Not really, they were both wrong, and with Van Gaal it was laughabley obvious at the time too, and I said Kerr was being too defensive on saturday at the time.

Guy:Incognito

Jivin Turkey wrote:

An idea for all who think Kerr should go. Who should be the next Ireland manager?

Roy

Jivin Turkey

Stekelly wrote:

Roy

You've been pissing and moaning about Kerr never managing at the highest level. Now you want to give the job which should be the "pinnacle of your managerial career" to a lad thats never managed a team before?

Id like to see Roy take the job at some stage, but Id like to see him get a bit of experience first. Or at least retire from playing.

KdjaCL

Stekelly wrote:

Roy

An even more experienced manager who has managed at top level in England or anywhere, good choice sums up your points about Kerr not being experienced quite nicely . Tbh your mate better qualified.


kdjac

Jivin Turkey

Slash/ED wrote:

Not really, they were both wrong, and with Van Gaal it was laughabley obvious at the time too, and I said Kerr was being too defensive on saturday at the time.

Dont get me wrong, I was not impressed with Kerr's tactics either, or Van Gaal's. But to me it just seems a bit easy for people to use hindsight in making their judgements.

In the end, the only right decision is the one that comes off.

Guy:Incognito

KdjaC wrote:

An even more experienced manager who has managed at top level in England or anywhere, good choice sums up your points about Kerr not being experienced quite nicely . Tbh your mate better qualified.


kdjac

Do you wait till I post so you can jump on what I say?

did the smiley escape your notice?

KdjaCL

Stekelly wrote:

Do you wait till I post so you can jump on what I say?

did the smiley escape your notice?

Nope bored.


kdjac

Guy:Incognito

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Dont get me wrong, I was not impressed with Kerr's tactics either, or Van Gaal's. But to me it just seems a bit easy for people to use hindsight in making their judgements..

To be fair, there isnt a another way to judge people if you remove results and decisions made, which can only be seen in hindsight.

eirebhoy

Stekelly wrote:

To be fair, there isnt a another way to judge people if you remove results and decisions made, which can only be seen in hindsight.

But how was bringing Kav on negative? We still play a 4-4-2. He didn't want to risk Elliott for whatever reason, thats all. Loads of managers are the same. Martin O'Neill would probably be worse.

Slash/ED

eirebhoy wrote:

But how was bringing Kav on negative? We still play a 4-4-2. He didn't want to risk Elliott for whatever reason, thats all. Loads of managers are the same. Martin O'Neill would probably be worse.

Not risking Elliot was negative, he doesn't blood youngsters, that's because he's too conversative, not willing to take a risk.

Kavanagh was negative. Duff is not and never will be a striker, it was effectively a 4-5-1 no matter what he told Duff, or a 4-4-1 given how poor Duff is when played up front. Lee, Doherty or Elliot, any of them would have been a better, more attacking option. Kilbane left wing and Duff up front was a more defencive looking team with no obvious consistent goal scorer beyond Morrison whos lack of football had him knackered and not looking sharp around the goal at all.

You can't deny it was a negative sub. Ffs he removed our leading scorer of all time and replaced him with a hard working central mid fielder. The removal of Keane was forced, but there's no spin you can put on that that changes the fact that striker out, mid fielder in is a negative change, no matter how he reshuffles the pack.

Now, I do think Kerr can be a good manager for us, I don't want him sacked and don't think we could get anyone better in, I just think he has one major fault. He is far, far too negative and it'll cost us unless he learns from his mistakes.

eirebhoy

Slash/ED wrote:

Not risking Elliot was negative, he doesn't blood youngsters, that's because he's too conversative, not willing to take a risk.

Kavanagh was negative. Duff is not and never will be a striker, it was effectively a 4-5-1 no matter what he told Duff, or a 4-4-1 given how poor Duff is when played up front. Lee, Doherty or Elliot, any of them would have been a better, more attacking option. Kilbane left wing and Duff up front was a more defencive looking team with no obvious consistent goal scorer beyond Morrison whos lack of football had him knackered and not looking sharp around the goal at all.

You can't deny it was a negative sub. Ffs he removed our leading scorer of all time and replaced him with a hard working central mid fielder. The removal of Keane was forced, but there's no spin you can put on that that changes the fact that striker out, mid fielder in is a negative change, no matter how he reshuffles the pack.

Now, I do think Kerr can be a good manager for us, I don't want him sacked and don't think we could get anyone better in, I just think he has one major fault. He is far, far too negative and it'll cost us unless he learns from his mistakes.

The only mistake I can see there is not putting on Elliott. Don't you think he knows more than us whether Elliott is up to it? As I've said, Elliott is not going to play tomorrow night. I really don't see how that is negative. There is a reason there. The same reasons that many, many managers make decisions and we think we know better.

IMO, if he wasn't going to put on Elliott, putting Duff up front was the only option.

Slash/ED

eirebhoy wrote:

The only mistake I can see there is not putting on Elliott. Don't you think he knows more than us whether Elliott is up to it? As I've said, Elliott is not going to play tomorrow night. I really don't see how that is negative. There is a reason there. The same reasons that many, many managers make decisions and we think we know better.

IMO, if he wasn't going to put on Elliott, putting Duff up front was the only option.

I disagree, we all know Duff is an awful, awful striker. He's completley ineffective up there. If it wasn't Elliot, Lee or Doherty would have done better as they would have given us some kind of option up there and we'd have the bonus of our best player in his best position.

thejollyrodger

with hindsight we are all experts as they say. Still I thought Elliott should have came on for a straight swap. but at the end of the day.. it was the players on the pitch that messed up. Here is a good article out of the indo

Criticism of Kerr way off the mark
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1411582&issue_id=12581

WHEN Sunderland recently won promotion to the Premiership and also took the Championship title, Mick McCarthy was rightly named as the Philips Manager of the Month for April.

There were many glowing tributes on this side of the Irish Sea and ample recognition of the unique managerial skills that enabled him to win such a difficult league on a shoestring budget.

It's not that long since McCarthy's managerial abilities were being ridiculed in the Irish media to such an extent that the negativity eventually found its way into the dressing room and onto the terraces forcing him to resign as Ireland manager.

Amazingly some of those now lauding him were the very same people who castigated him a few years ago and some of his biggest critics, having recently rejoined his fan club, have discovered to their horror that McCarthy has a long memory.

Being a football manager is not easy as everybody reckons they can do the job better, even if the sum total of their experience is just a few hours on the computer guiding a team through a Championship Manager season.

Although he has only lost one of his 12 competitive games in charge, Brian Kerr is now discovering why France's World Cup winning manager Aime Jacquet once told him that he didn't read a newspaper, listen to the radio or watch television for six months prior to the 1998 Finals.

As Ireland prepare to play the Faroe Islands tonight there are already mutterings among the press corps about Kerr's future in the wake of Ireland's back-to-back draws against Israel, a feat also managed by group favourites France.

Ireland has played some beautiful football in this campaign but unfortunately they have been ruthlessly punished for four lapses in concentration against Switzerland and Israel.

Kerr is being unfairly hammered for the carelessness of players who are experienced enough to know better.

Ireland's small pool of players means that Kerr must shrug his shoulders, point out the error and move on.

Axing quality players is not a practical option for any Irish manager because there are no ready-made alternatives.

The manager's job is to prepare his team as best as possible for the task ahead.

He selects the players who will play, chooses the best formation to suit that group and devises the tactics that will deliver the desired result. Once the game starts he has minimal control over what happens.

Last Saturday, Kerr sent out a team that pulverised Israel in the first 11 minutes and raced into a two-goal lead. It wasn't his fault that Robbie Keane got injured and was in so much pain that he physically couldn't continue.

Neither was it Kerr's fault that some of his highly rated players lost their concentration in the final six minutes of the first half and got careless, resulting in the concession of two goals. Unlike American sports there are no time-outs in soccer, so when things are going wrong the manager has to patiently wait until half-time to put them right. Sure, some things can be sorted by shouting onto the pitch from the technical area but don't forget that the player who committed two mistakes in the build-up to Israel's second goal was the one who was playing furthest away from the Irish dug-out.

Kerr did sort his side out at half-time. Ireland dominated the second half and had enough chances to win the game but were denied by some inspired goalkeeping, a good deal of cheating and a referee who quite frankly had an absolute stinker.

In football, you sometimes don't get what you deserve from games and remember too, that when this campaign began the general consensus was that Ireland were fighting for second place and that, as of now Ireland, can still top the group by winning their final four games.

If we don't beat the Faroe Islands tonight on a bumpy narrow pitch in Torshavn, Kerr will get hammered tomorrow and in the days ahead and there will be calls to remove him immediately to save the World Cup campaign. But let's remember too that there has been a great levelling out in European football standards as a glance at the eight group tables will readily testify.

Only three out of 51 countries trying to reach Germany have failed to pick up a single point so far and European champions Greece were beaten 2-1 by Albania last September in their first competitive game since lifting the Henri Delaunay trophy.

As his employers, the FAI are well aware of the trojan work that Kerr is doing in his role as senior international team manager. He is also using his position to influence changes in the game at all levels and FAI Chief Executive John Delaney has recognised that he has a valuable contribution to make.

As a result, Kerr is now included in all the association's footballing decisions as both he and Delaney try to improve Irish football from different directions.

They've had their differences in the past but seeing them now working in tandem is a signal that things are getting better in Merrion Square.

That work should be allowed to continue so proper structures to help the long term future of Irish football can be put in place.

I reckon we will scrap to Germany.. Be it in the play off's or whatever. Kerr is good for Irish soccer so we cant sack him just yet. For all their merit, Jack route 1 Charlton and Mick grafter Mc Carthy were just managers of the senior side and did no other work.

Personally I think the next best manager to come in would be Roy - providing that we have a few more players coming through and we have enough resources ! Kerr should stay on till then.

eirebhoy

Well Duff can get his game up front for the best team in England, Elliott couldn't even get his game for Sunderland at the end of the season. He had started 1 game since mid-March and sat on the bench for the rest. He also didn't look very good against Celtic. That substitution didn't lose us the bloody game. Holland tackled someone about 40 yards out and Given mis-kicked the ball that led to the peno. They weren't dominating play as soon as Keane went off. That was their only two chances in the match.

_blank_

eirebhoy wrote:

Well Duff can get his game up front

Hardly up front as a striker, as he was employed on Saturday. More of an outside left/right for Chelsea.

Kerr should give that formation a go, with one main striker, like Clinton, and Duff and Reid operating just behind him, making chances as the Duff/Robben combination do for Drogba/Gudjohnnson at Chelsea.

Villain

Duff said in a press conference yesterday that he didn't like playing up front, probably because he's not affective up there.

So how about the formation below, now it's only a suggestion don't all shout at me at once.

Given
Carr	Cunningham   O'Shea	Harte

		
Duff  S Reid  Keane  Kilbane  A Reid

		Morrisson

Edit sorry meant to delete kavangh.

So now with 11 players what do you think?

Pigman II

Irish1 (or should I call you StuartPearce?) you have 12 players on the team there

_blank_

I knew there was something up with that.

But if Kerr can pull it off, then he'd be the best manager ever!!

Villain

lol edited, sorry meant to delete Kavangh but he some how ended up in the "hole"

lol

eirebhoy

seansouth wrote:

Hardly up front as a striker, as he was employed on Saturday. More of an outside left/right for Chelsea.

Kerr should give that formation a go, with one main striker, like Clinton, and Duff and Reid operating just behind him, making chances as the Duff/Robben combination do for Drogba/Gudjohnnson at Chelsea.

No, Duff has played up front plenty of times. Barcelona away comes to mind. Kezman was on bench for that afaik. Elliott certainly wouldn't get a game up front for Chelsea.

BTW, if Kerr was in charge of Chelsea when they lost the 2 goal lead to Bolton he'd be taking the blame for that too while nothing is said about Mourinho.

eirebhoy

I don't know if Paul Doyle's Guardian article was posted up here but if anyone agree's with it you need to stop being so anti-Kerr. I sent a quick e-mail to him about it actually.

Quote:
The man in black denied Ireland a clear penalty, handed one to Israel for a non-existent foul



No Paul, we can admit when its a bloody clear foul by O'Shea.

Quote:
Instead of applying a plaster - replacing Keane with another striker - Kerr attempted to perform major surgery.



What striker would that be? A centre half in Dohery that couldn't make the Norwich bench? Elliott who had started 1 game since mid-March and was on the bench for all the rest? Alan Lee? Or someone that could get his game up front for Chelsea, in Damien Duff.

Quote:
His decision to unleash Graham Kavanagh, a hard-working midfielder who, despite his unerring set-piece deliveries, is simply not an international class player



Go watch a bit of bloody football Paul. He is a better central midfielder than Holland or Kilbane so if Kav isn't international class we haven't got much choice.

Quote:
meant moving Damien Duff from the left flank, where he had been bamboozling the visitors



bamboozling? He was really ineffective out there because of the amount of players on him. In fact, Kilbane was probably more effective when put on the left wing.

Quote:
These changes unbalanced Ireland and gifted the initiative back to Israel who, in fairness, had the wherewithal to grab it, albeit with the assistance of a referee who awarded a penalty against John O'Shea for neglecting to stop a forward from falling.



Well I thought we went downhill after 15 minutes to be honest. But anyway, are you saying that if we put Elliott on up front Holland wouldn't have tackled (and clearly won the ball) someone 40 yards out? Or Given wouldn't have miskicked the ball and gave it to the opposition which led to the penalty? They hardly dominated as soon as Duff went up front. They had 2 set pieces and took them.

Quote:
but it was plain for all to see that if Doherty (or Stephen Elliot) had been on the pitch since the 23rd minute, Ireland would certainly have had a third, at least.



Oh come on. If Doherty came on and we conceded those 2 goals you’d be putting the blame on Kerr again. Doherty is a centre half and at best last resort for a goal.

Quote:
Away to Switzerland and Israel, a full-strength Irish side swaggered into an early lead only for Kerr to become negative, concede territory and ultimately settle for draws.



Unless Kerr is lying, he told the players at half time to go out, push up and create more. Is he lying? Obviously he told the players that possession is the most important thing but he hardly told them to sit on the 1-0 lead.

Quote:
Against injury- and suspension-ravaged France in Paris, a full-strength Irish side were in the process of delivering one of their most accomplished away performances and outclassing their illustrious hosts, only for Kerr to become negative, concede territory and ultimately settle for a draw.



Now its getting ridiculous. Kerr is to blame because we didn't win in France? Cop the hell on Paul.

Quote:
Kerr should simply have helped himself to away victories when they were offered to him on a plate.



Ah no. I would have done the same. I would have told the Israeli's to score in injury time. He never once said his policy was to get away draws. He said that teams usually win the group with away draws and home wins. He said this after the draws, not before the matches and it was basically to keep his players heads up. He hardly told his players to go out and play for a draw. They were all devastated after the Israel match. Roy even told the players to keep their heads up after we failed to win in Paris. Hardly like they felt they did a job well done.

Pigman II

eirebhoy wrote:

BTW, if Kerr was in charge of Chelsea when they lost the 2 goal lead to Bolton he'd be taking the blame for that too while nothing is said about Mourinho.

The difference is that that was the ONLY game out of 38 last season where Chelsea were in a winning postion at any point during the game .... yet failed to take 3pts at fulltime.

Kerr has already let a winning position slide 3 times in 6 games. Thats why people are on his back and not Mourinho's.

Praetorian

I think Kerr will inevitably let us down. I think we really are in danger of not qualifying for a major championship again. The man has no presence on the sideline, and his teams rarely come out any better for the second half. His team talks must be uninspiring. His cautious negative approach is tiresome, there have been plenty of times when we should have been on all out attack to finish teams off, but that instruction never came. Aimlessly throwing the kitchen sink at teams rarely works. He can’t manage to get results using his defensive style. We keep leaking goals left right and centre.

He has some strong points, but really he is unproven at this level and the friendlies we have won are no real indication. It was a hell of a gamble by the FAI picking someone like Kerr, but at the end of the day, it won’t pay off. The Swiss or the French will come to Dublin and beat us. We may barely scrape through in second place if we are lucky.

I’m looking towards the future, and I’m hoping Martin O’Neill will eventually manage the team. He has a tremendous talent for getting the best out of players, and I think he could bring us the success we have always dreamed of.

Roy Keane may even be a future candidate way down the road. His ability to dictate the flow of a game could be done from the sideline. He would put the fear of god into his players not to make a mistake

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

The difference is that that was the ONLY game out of 38 last season where Chelsea were in a winning postion at any point during the game .... yet failed to take 3pts at fulltime.

Kerr has already let a winning position slide 3 times in 6 games. Thats why people are on his back and not Mourinho's.

You say that but I would say "Ireland has already let a winning position slide 3 times in 6 games". I would probably give Kerr most of the blame for the Israel away game but other than that the team lost the lead. The Swiss just slaughtered us and nothing could be done about it. Israel slaughtered the Swiss in Tel Aviv and the Swiss couldn't do anything about that. I don't see how the manager can be blamed. He certainly can't be blamed about Saturday's fluke anyway. Bringing Elliott on wouldn't have avoided giving away 2 set pieces.

Kingp35

ah eirebhoy come on. If you really reviewed the match you would blame Kerrs tactics. Oh and for the record Roy Keane did not tell the irish players to keep their heads up after the draw in Paris he was giving out to the players for celebrating a draw in Paris when we could and perhaps should have won the game. That is the winning mentality, totally opposite to Brian Kerrs.

I want to raise some points with you about you defending Kerr bringing on Kavanagh. If you know so much about footballing tactics which you seeem to think you do then you would imediately have realised that bringing on Kavanagh was not one change that Kerr made but was in fact three changes.
Those being bringing on Kavanagh for Keane, moving duff up front and moving Kilbane to the wing. This, no matter what you say, totally messed up the shape of the team and was from this point on that the negativity started. In my opinion the negative approach was forced upon us because of these absolutely ridiculous changes by Kerr. Any sunday league manager would know that putting on another striker was by far the best option in that it only represented one change in the team thus keeping its shape allowing us to play the same way. Kept our best player in his best position (by the way duff is terrible up front and the game in barcelone where chelsea played him upfront proves this. he barely touched the ball) and keeping the team the way it was when we scored the 2 goals. Now why would you want to change the team when the original shape had scored two goals.

Also this may be hindsight but you are talking about holand making that tackle etc. but maybe the reason Holland had to make that tackle is because we went negative and thats the reason the israelis were in that position. These changes caused the negativity.

Finally another absolute ridiculous decision by Kerr, again which eirebhoy failed to notice, was that Brian Kerr decides to bring on a big target man to cause trouble to the israel team and win some headers in the box, which was a good choice at that time, but who does Kerr take off for our big target man who relies on good service?? Thats right Andy reid our best crosser of the ball. Another absolute master stroke from Kerr. Stupidity personified.

Doherty may be a defender, who the hell cares he has done the business before why not again. Elliott hasnt played football in a bit. Again who the hell cares. Duff had barely played for the last 7 weeks should we not play him??

Elliott was the only right decison the whole country knew it. Johnny Giles even could not understand the stupidity of Kerrs decision to take off Reid for Doherty. He said it in his commentary during the game.

Kerr doesnt have tactically and it p1sses me off that such obvious decisions are got so wrong by somone who supposedly was such a great tactacal underage manager. Utter stupidity

Pigman II

Ireland have played 12 competive games under Kerr so far and have been in a winning position in 9 yet have only managed to win 5 at fulltime.

They've thrown away a lead in 6 games and drawn a game from a winning position in 4 times. This is not the sign of a team that knows what its doing and for that I squarely lay the blame at Kerrs doorstep.

If this losing-the-lead scenario had happened just once or twice so far then I would probably agree with your view that it's just a case of 'bad luck' or 'the Swiss slaughtering us' but the fact that it seems to happen in every second game (pretty much EVERY game against quality opposition) suggests strongly to me that it is a problem of our own creation.