The new manager for Republic of Ireland poll

eirebhoy

Kingp35 wrote:

ah eirebhoy come on. If you really reviewed the match you would blame Kerrs tactics. Oh and for the record Roy Keane did not tell the irish players to keep their heads up after the draw in Paris he was giving out to the players for celebrating a draw in Paris when we could and perhaps should have won the game.

Read the article again. He was not giving out to the player, far from it.

Elliott hasnt played football in a bit. Again who the hell cares. Duff had barely played for the last 7 weeks should we not play him??

What I'm saying is Elliott was not in good form. He couldn't get his game for Sunderland since March. He wasn't really effective against Celtic. I would have put on Elliott too but what do we know?

All I am saying is that Kerr did not lose us that game. Just watching from the 15th minute again. Giles said on the 29th minute "you don't want to be giving them as much possession as they've had in the last 10 minutes or so". Keane only went off in the 27th minute. Keane was on the pitch when Israel got their first chance (an Israeli walked his way into our box). We lost our rhythm well before Keane went off. The crowd were nearly silent on the 29th minute.

IMO, Elliott coming on would not have changed much. If Jose Mourinho had an out of form Kezman (Elliott) and Tiago (Kav) on the bench and Chelsea were winning 2-0. Gudjohnson and Drogba were up front. I've very little doubt that Tiago would be the player coming on if Gudy got injured on 27 minutes.

A few incidences that Kerr would have got the blame for if he was in Mourinho's shoes. Against Porto Duff was playing well, he scored the only goal and was taken off. Chelsea conceded 2 goals and lost the game.
Chelsea were playing Bayern. Duff, Cole and Gudjohnson got taken off for Tiago, Geremi and Morais. Chelsea conceded 2 injury time goals and lost the game.
All these incidents Kerr would be getting slated for.

The reason I keep bringing up Mourinho is because I feel he and Kerr are very similar coaches. Mourinho has his players week in week out though. Kerr won't play Elliott but Mourinho wouldn't play Duff for 2 months.

thejollyrodger

I have to question the mentality of this irish side. Going 1 or 2 up and then not being able to hold on to it. I think England had a similar problem a while back. I think they eventually sorted it .. we just have to do the same.

Most of kerr's subs seem to be based on experience the player has at international level rather than ability. I suppose its the most logical thing to pick but when things dont come off its easy to knock.

eirebhoy

Someone mentioned on another forum that Kerr learns from his mistakes while McCarthy is way too stubborn. That is spot on and is a big plus for Kerr. I can almost say for a fact that McCarthy wouldn't have started Elliott on Wednesday after the critisism he would have got for not playing him on Saturday. Kerr made 1 mistake in this group before the Israel game, not pushing for the second goal in Tel Aviv. He learnt from that and they attacked whenever they had the ball on Saturday. Its clear Kerr will learn from every mistake and I doubt we'll see Duffer up front any time soon or other things that McCarthy persisted on doing.

Kerr on Elliott:
"In the game against Celtic and in the two to three days before the game with Israel, I felt he didn't look sharp and the break at the end of the season [on the bench for last 6 club games] had not done him any good,"
"But in training ahead of this game he did, and with the opposition, and less pressure away from home, I felt he would have more of a chance to show what he could do, and he did it nicely."

Dempsey

Kerr tried Duff up front before and it didnt go well and he did it again against israel. Didnt learn that mistake quick enough

eirebhoy

Dempsey wrote:

Kerr tried Duff up front before and it didnt go well and he did it again against israel. Didnt learn that mistake quick enough

Duff and Doherty played up front in Georgia because Robbie Keane was unavailable and they both scored. Duff was also probably the best player on the pitch that day. He also played up front with Morrison against Russia, he scored and was again the best player on the pitch. AFAIK, they're the only 2 times Kerr played him up front.

thejollyrodger

In fairness, Duff was unlucky not to score against the israelis in Dublin. If he did, everyone would have been calling Kerr a genius.

Dempsey

I remember Duff playing ****e up front before, but I cant recall specific matches. He had a free role, i think, he wasnt really effective as a forward but he caused problems when moved out wider.

eirebhoy

Dempsey wrote:

I remember Duff playing ****e up front before

Aye, plenty of times under McCarthy (mainly partnering Robbie. Connolly was crap with Robbie in every match he played and it has ruined his international career). He only played up front twice under Kerr and was our best player on both occasions so we can't really slate Kerr for moving him up there instead of an out of form Elliott.

thejollyrodger

Lessons still to be learned despite Kerr's arrogance
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1415159&issue_id=12614

IT was a two-hour flight to the Faroe Islands last Monday, but for Brian Kerr and Ireland, it was a trip to the end of the world.

As the press gathered to meet him on Monday evening at the team's hotel high in the hills above Torshavn, Kerr remarked that the setting was a place where Ireland could feel remote. You got the feeling Kerr would have liked to be alone on the islands without a regiment of journalists. "How did it go, Brian?" somebody asked as he left the press conference. "Ah, alright." He pointed back to the assembled hacks. "I'm just trying to cheer those fellas up."

It wasn't just the journalists who needed cheering up last week - Ireland's collapse against Israel on the Saturday had left the players dejected. When George Graham's Arsenal side would visit provincial clubs like Norwich or Oldham, Graham's final words to his players in the dressing room would be: "Let's get the three points and get out of this country town." Ireland wanted three points in the Faroe Islands and then they wanted out. Both looked difficult on Wednesday morning when the team woke up to discover they might have to stay for a while longer.

None of it should have mattered; the Faroes were a team of part-time clichés; the centre-back was missing the game because he had an exam, all the rest had stories that delighted the press and Ireland should have expected to win comfortably.

But when the news came that Ireland may have to stay until Thursday at the earliest, the job for Brian Kerr's team got harder. The backroom staff fretted that the players who were looking forward to the season ending on Wednesday night would be distracted by the weather reports. Irish players are used to playing in tough conditions, but on Wednesday night, on the side of a mountain, the Faroes enjoyed it more.

Nobody will be dusting down the video of last Wednesday's game and reminiscing, nobody, perhaps, except Stephen Elliott who gave a second-half performance of pace and determination that swung the game towards Ireland.

Elliott should have been called from the bench against Israel last Saturday when Ireland enjoyed such superiority. Instead, Kerr hesitated, showed caution and the game began to slip away. There were other reasons for the collapse against Israel, apart from Kerr's negativity, the hysteria of Dudu Awat and the naivety of the referee: players Kerr could have expected more from did not perform, while others such as John O'Shea and Ian Harte were hesitant and uncertain.

But the manager built a platform for criticism when he sent on a midfielder for the injured Robbie Keane with three quarters of the game to go. By Thursday, Elliott's performance in the Faroes suggested that Sunderland's striker was good enough, at least, to play against the lesser teams in the group (including Israel, no matter what the table says) but Kerr's post-match comments were unnecessary.

Claiming that Elliott hadn't looked sharp in training or in Jackie McNamara's testimonial was irrelevant and smacked of self-justification. These may be the facts as honestly presented by the manager, but he owed the player some loyalty, owed it to the player - who had done as much as anybody to get him off the island with three points - to sacrifice his own pride. Instead, Kerr sounded like Mick McCarthy or Gerard Houllier.

The rest on Wednesday night was unadorned football, but three points that were won in the most trying conditions, mentally and physically. "I think it was a great result," Shay Given said later. "We were in a no-win situation, we had to come here and get three points. It might not have been the prettiest of games, but we showed a lot of character and we stuck at the job and got the job done which was the most important thing."

In the second half, the team responded to Roy Keane. Ireland's midfield came into play and the game was won. Keane prompted and cajoled, the only one of Ireland's supposed world-class players to come close to his billing. Keane's career has been a war against complacency and he continued the battle last Wednesday.

Clinton Morrison, not surprisingly given his performance, was one who suffered a verbal reminder from Keane. "He encourages me. He tells me what to do and he's a big influence on me. But tonight he had a bit of a snap at me and I had a snap back. He said something about get back up there. I had a bite back. I said alright man. He said to let it go, calm down."

Keane will have appreciated the value of the result, but nothing more. "Anything other than a win would have been catastrophic for us," Kerr agreed, before pointing out that, mathematically, Ireland hadn't needed to win both matches last week. "We are in control, but it's going to be very difficult. France will probably feel that they can beat us in Dublin, Switzerland might feel they can beat us in Dublin, Cyprus will feel they can beat us, it's going to be a scrap."

And an unnecessary one. Ireland have dropped points against Israel that keep Avraham Grant's side in contention, an unnecessary elevation for a team as poor as the Israelis. It is easy to forget that Kerr has much to learn about international football as he portrays himself so often as all-knowing.

How much longer he gets depends on the autumn's fixtures. Kerr has jeopardised a lot of goodwill among the media with an attitude that can be arrogant, paranoid and unhelpful. Those things don't matter if the results are right and the players back a manager, but the victories have not come and the rumours persist of an unhappy squad.

Yet Kerr deserves longer and should have his contract extended beyond the end of this campaign. He has a vision for Irish football which is noble and grand, but none of it will matter if the senior squad can't win important matches against important teams.

Ireland are slipping into old ways, dropping points and making excuses for it. But there is little time left for sweet talk. Ireland can enjoy their summer break, but when the autumn comes they will need to be unbeaten, more worryingly, they will probably need to win two out of the three remaining games and draw the other to guarantee a top two spot. Automatic qualification may require three victories.

So far under Kerr, the highest-ranked team Ireland has beaten in a competitive game is Albania. Leads have been thrown away against Switzerland, Israel and Russia. It must be expected that France will score in Dublin, but again it was expected when Holland came to Lansdowne Road in 2001 that they would score four or five.

Switzerland, another poor team in an uninspiring group, are more vulnerable targets and if Ireland cannot beat them when it matters then they should not be going to Germany.

But it is the French game that excites and frightens in equal measure. The talk that France must come good ignores the fact that they show every sign of being sated, especially at international level where they have done it all. Ireland and Kerr still have much to do, but it will require a Roy Keane closer to the Keane of four years ago than Wednesday night for Ireland to win. The hunger, at least, is still there.

Last Wednesday night's game will not linger, but the thought of France in September will be on every player's mind as he holidays this summer. "It's a game to separate the men from the boys," Given said. Ireland will need to come of age in September.

Dion Fanning

Bit of a hardball article. I havent read a positive article about kerr yet. Seems as though he may well be out on his ear and the squad arent 100% happy with him.

I agree with Dion calling a spade a spade, France and Swizz are on the ropes, its just that we keep making screw ups and its all costing us.

eirebhoy

thejollyrodger wrote:

Seems as though he may well be out on his ear and the squad arent 100% happy with him.

How did you get that feeling? The squad seem very happy to me. Kerr used to smile through every press conference but now he seems more unhappy the more he talks to the press. He has less and less respect for the press and they seem annoyed at that.

Kerr has jeopardised a lot of goodwill among the media with an attitude that can be arrogant, paranoid and unhelpful.

arrogant? Because he knows 10 times as much about football than all those students of journalism. Paranoid? So would I be reading what is been written about him. Unhelpful? What is he meant to do.

BTW, Jolly, you seem to take all journalists words as gospel. Fanning is a crap journalist imo.

Pigman II

You don't turn your nose up at the media (even if you find them intrusive and you do know 10 or even 100 times more than them.) They have the ability to destroy you (as McCarthy found out) and Kerr had better watch himself in this regard imho.

I'm certainly not an expert on football yet I prob know as much as any football journo but at the same time I know at this level you just have to play ball with them and if you don't then you're not as smart as Kerr clearly thinks he is.

thejollyrodger

well its not just one journo, its in most papers, irish times, the times uk, tribune etc.. someone is having a go at him somewhere. I would cut him some slack personally but the hacks are the ones spending the most time with Kerr and pick up on his personality and shortcomings.

If we were getting wins at home then it would all be irrelevant but were not. Kerr styles himself as all knowing yet he doesnt know it all and didnt learn from his expereince out in tel aviv.

There was a old article in the times after the game in tel aviv. Basically the israelis were sh1ting a load in case ireland went to tel aviv and played a priemership game, high tempo and fast. They reckoned they could only last 45 minutes of that and it would be a hockey score in our favour. We came out of the blocks at a snails pace much to the relievement of the Israelis.

In short the pace of the game was all wrong and it cost us 2 points out there. There are many other little howlers that could have been righted.

Personally I think the next 3 games are there for the winning. I dont rate any other team as much as Ireland (as long as we dont have 3 injuries to our world class trio). Kerr really has to put all the peices together and figure out what he is going to do if there are injuries in key positions.

On a side point, Mac Geady hasnt played a competitve match for us so is still eligible for Scotland. A few mintues at the end of the game against France will put that one to bed. Stracken is up in arms about him playing for Ireland and it would be a nightmare if he did change his mind in the end.

eirebhoy

thejollyrodger wrote:

well its not just one journo, its in most papers, irish times, the times uk, tribune etc.. someone is having a go at him somewhere. I would cut him some slack personally but the hacks are the ones spending the most time with Kerr and pick up on his personality and shortcomings.

Jolly, I would probably take a guess that most of those journalists thought Elliott was in the form of his life judging by some of the articles I read.

Kerr styles himself as all knowing yet he doesnt know it all and didnt learn from his expereince out in tel aviv.

How did he not?

thejollyrodger

Bringing on Kavanagh meant that both him and Holland were doing the same job and were in each others way, Duff was ineffectual and was was Kilbane.

Kerr should have monitored Elliott in the pre match fitness session and brought him on for Robbie. We have leaked so many goals its unreal, so kerr should have kept playing the way we were for the first 20 odd minutes. If things didnt work out with Elliott then Kerr could have brought on doc.

Its all 20/20 hindsight i know but its a shortcoming of Kerr. His subtitutions during the game are poor. He should have pressed the israeli for 90 minutes and not slackened off.

eirebhoy

thejollyrodger wrote:

Bringing on Kavanagh meant that both him and Holland were doing the same job and were in each others way

Holland was doing the holding role while Kav was box to box like a maniac (Kilbane's job). I didn't see them getting in each others way.

We have leaked so many goals its unreal, so kerr should have kept playing the way we were for the first 20 odd minutes.

I have watched bits and pieces the first half a load of times now. Israel got into the game before Keane was taken off. Their best chance of the match was when we were 2-0 up and Keane was still on.

Jivin Turkey

thejollyrodger wrote:

His subtitutions during the game are poor.

This is undoubtedly one of Kerr's faults.

Even in friendlies his substitutions are poor. I seem to remember him giving McGeady his debut with about two minutes to run in a game. Whats the point?

Even in the Faroes I think he definitely could have freshened the game up with the introduction of Steven Reid. Both Duff and Andy Reid were playing poorly IMO. S.Reid would have given them better balance on the right, which would have resulted in more crosses coming in from himself and Carr.

thejollyrodger

June 12, 2005

Ireland can afford no more slips
DAVID MCKECHNIE
Brian Kerr's team are still in with a fighting chance of topping Group Four but their weakness in depth must worry the manager

When news reached the Ireland dressing room after Wednesday’s match in Torshavn that the players were marooned there for another night, they reacted angrily and desperately. “Get Milo!” shouted one, apparently in all sincerity, and others laughed at the notion that the FAI president, Milo Corcoran, might be able to transform his blazer into a cape and lift the fog over the Norwegian Sea all by himself.

There was nothing for it but to unwind in a bar, retreat to the hotel and try to regain their perspective. For these players it was asking a lot during a week when a sense of perspective got it in the neck. The nature of the turnaround against Israel blew away Ireland’s optimism, their sense of invincibility at Lansdowne Road and seemingly all hope of finishing top of Group Four.

Nonetheless, in the months before Ireland line out against France at Lansdowne Road, it would be a wonder if perspective failed to recover to shine a kinder light on Group Four. It would be a surprise if Ireland dwelt on their failings against Israel instead of considering an unbeaten home record in World Cup qualifiers that stretches back 12 years and it would be a shock if they couldn’t recall the performances that brought them to the 2002 World Cup and initially put them in such a promising position in these qualifiers. Pedigree should be more lasting and relevant than form in these campaigns.

Football has developed a culture of one-eyed extremism and so it’s natural for Ireland fans to exaggerate their team’s failings as though they have a monopoly on the troubles in Group Four. Would Ireland swap places with the Swiss, who must face France in Berne and then travel to Dublin within the space of four days? Would they prefer to be France, who have shown over a long period that they have deteriorated under Raymond Domenech, who have scored less than a goal a game in this group, yet who must travel to play their two main rivals away from home? “If someone told us before the group we’d be top at this stage with this number of points we’d have laughed,” said Kenny Cunningham on Friday. “Experience tells you there will be ups and downs in a qualifying group, you have to take it on the chin. The week was a disappointment but we’re professional enough, the summer will help. Physically we’ll be at our peak and I think we’ll be ready.”

The only ones to have excelled themselves in Group Four are the Israelis, who are floating on a cloud of elation out of keeping with their poor display at Lansdowne Road and their real prospects of progressing to Germany. As his team’s coach made its way to last Saturday’s game, Avraham Grant, the Israel manager, had the inspired idea of showing a tape of Liverpool’s Champions League final comeback, uncanny considering the events about to unfold. As the players waited in Heathrow airport on the way home last Sunday, Yossi Benayoun drew the comparison. “For a team like Israel to pull off something like this at a stadium like Lansdowne Road is an even greater achievement,” he said. Grant concurred. “This team is driving Europe crazy,” he reckoned. Brian Kerr could not disagree.

KERR may have been driven more demented by his own players last weekend but, in light of the criticism that came his way after the first-half substitution he made, he may also have considered the comparison with the Liverpool-Milan match.

A manager’s performance can be judged in two ways: how he prepares his team before a game and how he reacts during it. Analysis of Ireland’s playing options in the autumn can wait for another day but this is the time to consider how the manager has employed them so far. Given how well Ireland have started all of their matches in this qualifying group — four times they have scored in the first 14 minutes — Kerr is entitled to feel his pre-match preparation and team selections have been vindicated. He might also feel that before last weekend, at least, he had proved himself adept at introducing his substitutes and altering his tactics.

He might think back to Basel, for instance, at the adjustments he made at half time after Hakan Yakin had cancelled out Clinton Morrison’s opening goal and Switzerland threatened to take control of the match. “We spoke at half time about playing narrow and trying to make them play wide,” said Steve Finnan, “and they didn’t really get through us in the second half.”

Switzerland had just one shot on goal after the break that night, while the introduction of Graham Kavanagh for Andy Reid with 17 minutes remaining essentially killed the game. While it was hardly a virtuoso performance by Kerr, it boosted the impression of a manager skilled enough to instruct and influence his players wisely.

Wednesday’s clumsy win in the Faroes may have lifted Ireland to the top of the group but last weekend’s game against Israel was the most damaging of Kerr’s tenure and the most worthy of scrutiny. His introduction of Kavanagh for Robbie Keane and subsequent reshuffle plainly didn’t work. Damien Duff was ineffective up front, Kevin Kilbane neutralised on the left and Kavanagh and Matt Holland looked like two men politely trying to carry out the same job.

But what were Kerr’s alternatives? Should he have introduced Gary Doherty so early and changed the playing style that had worked so well up to that point? Should he have brought on Stephen Elliott, who Kerr later claimed had lost his sharpness since the season ended? It is unarguable that however far he might have been off the pace — and his display on Wednesday suggested it might not have been far at all — Elliott’s introduction would have caused the least disruption. But was it really so ridiculous for Kerr to believe that Duff could thrive up front, where he has played many times for Ireland, or that Kilbane could offer a real alternative in a position where he has earned the majority of his 63 caps? Whichever way you look at it, when Robbie Keane left the pitch after 26 minutes last Saturday, the Irish players were guilty of bringing to life one of football’s most overused cliches — letting down their manager.

Kerr’s sense of betrayal was impossible to conceal after the match, for he knows what it really means when it is said that players let a manager down. It means they are prepared to let him down. For all the progress he has made, Kerr hasn’t yet created the conditions in which his players aren’t prepared to let him down. Where they simply won’t allow it, no matter what. Perhaps they react sluggishly to his cautious, forensic approach, perhaps they don’t fear him enough. The quality of their performances in Paris and in the first 25 minutes against Israel were no illusion, but Kerr has yet to prove beyond doubt that he is capable of getting the very best from these players, the one and only job of any Ireland manager.

As this campaign has shuffled along, one other fact has become more and more obvious; without Kerr’s three blue-chip outfield players — Damien Duff, Roy and Robbie Keane — fit and available, Ireland lose their conviction and their way. In those ruinous minutes before half time last Saturday, two of them were off the field and the third was struggling out of position. Ireland’s margin of error has shrunk so much in Group Four that the loss of even one of them in the autumn could be terminal.

Nobody needs to remind Kerr of this stark fact but, when the dust settles on the past week and he calmly considers the challenge to come, it may be the thought that troubles him most.

Its yet another article but feck it, its a discussion board.

goal difference may be something that comes back to haunt us. I hope it isnt the case and it shouldnt be in this very poor group. Kerr could have all the friendlies he wanted in order to properly judge fringe players. We all know what duff,keano,robbie etc are going to give us. its the players like Mac Geady, Elliott, S.Reid, Kelly that we need to look at. Players might just have to be called up in order to make Germany.

Any team is going to have a good spell in the game. But if we are properly lined out then we can take the game by the scruff of the neck and score a 3rd goal. That wasnt possible when Robbie when off. All our key players were in the wrong position.

eirebhoy

Should he have brought on Stephen Elliott, who Kerr later claimed had lost his sharpness since the season ended?

Again another journalist that probably didn't know that Elliott hadn't started a game in 2 months...

thejollyrodger

its easy to just write it off as a journo without a clue but most of them have been pretty accurate to date

eirebhoy

thejollyrodger wrote:

its easy to just write it off as a journo without a clue but most of them have been pretty accurate to date

Their biggest critisism is not bringing Elliott on. At least they could do a bit of research.

thejollyrodger

Elliott looked good enough against the faores, did he just suddenly get fit ?

eirebhoy

thejollyrodger wrote:

Elliott looked good enough against the faores, did he just suddenly get fit ?

What are you talking about fitness for? He wasn't getting his game for Sunderland because of bad form and didn't do very well against Celtic. He was shít in the first half against the Faroes too.

thejollyrodger

yeah he was sh1te in the first half alright, but was better than clint.

Still, what is really killing this irish team is the amount of players who are not getting regular first team football : Robbie, Clint, Elliott, Doc, Carr, Josh, they need to find teamss where they are playing regularly!!

Space Coyote

Yes I believe it is time for the FAI to bite the bullet and admit that Kerr is not up to the job. They were right to give him a go imo but it hasn't worked out. It's plainly obvious that he is out of his depth tactically. It's a weak group, our 3 main rivals are not good teams. France are in decline and Switzerland and Isreal are very average sides. We don't have a great side either but really Kerr should have had the guts to go for the kill against these lesser sides. If he had done so we would sitting back in our business hammocks right now, happy in the knowledge that we had automatically qualified as group winners.