Leaving Cert English Marking all a JOKE??

The Failed God

Iv a bit of a gripe about the grading of the english papers..Just wondering am I on my own? Its completly non-uniform and there is no standard personally i think what grade we get is largly influenced by what examiner you get.. For me what im largely doing is leaving off essays and hoping to more or less reproduce them on wednesday just altering them to suit the question. For my pre i got a Dickinson Q and i wrote out my personal response answer which i had by heart.I got something like 46/50 for it and our pre's were graded by sum head marker,HAPPY. When i summitted it to my teacher earlier that month he gave me much the same grade(also a leaving cert marker)..

However, i gave this exact question to my girlfriend (different school so i didnt see the prob) who in turn handed it word for word to her teacher..She was graded not more than a C1 because it only used 3 poems, she then gave it to her grind teacher who is also a marker and she got a C1 again for the same reason.

So i was pretty worried and asked my teacher to give it to another (head of english in school another marker) and he graded it a C aswell..

Is it just me or is this totally unfair?If you look at the 2fm 806 website ( http://www.rte.ie/2fm/story/1048686.html ) there is a model answer for Dickinson done out by some English buff (Philip Campion??) in some big ass grind school id imagine and it states boldly in the margin that 3 poems will surfice..Opinions??

I think a lot of people were dissapointed in their english results in the mocks. Probably for this reason, i don't know.

randomfella

its subjective as **** i admit. I mean half of our class sent ours out, other half got the teacher to correct them. THere was a significant, noticeable difference between the two groups in terms of marks. I mean it really depends what kind of examiner you get. Hard to say about the poetry thing. How ambigous is it... **** sake our teacher told us to learn six, then gave us a sample answer with only 3 or 4. Its incredibly inconsistent. I was wondering was it just the teacher i had, but the whole course is somewhat of a blur. I mean the comparitive - what a load of ****e, its still so unclear. Surely they should give sample answers with texts not on the course or something to show whats required. Our teacher never bothered giving us sample answers on comparitive because didn't want us going in with the same stuff. Ahhh the frustrations, restrictions and out datedness(is there a word for that) of leaving cert english!!!

I got B3 and i sent mine out.

To sum up, very ambigous, enigmatic course (mainly poems and comparitive question)

*Angel*

Well do you know how the marking is split?

30% Purpose (engagement with set task)

30% Coherence (Sustaining your response over the entire answer)

30% Language (Appropriate to task - vocabulary, style, punctuation)

10% Mechanics (Spelling, gramming)

So if you were asked to write an essay where you were only told to use 2 or 3 poems you probably would get that A, but if it's a more broad question as in your personal response you would probably lose marks lacking engagement with the set task.

The Failed God

Im not goin to even get started on General vision and viewpoint,ask any teacher or even corrector and they WILL NOT be able to properly explain what to write about and most (my teacher has his masters and all included) will admit not to fully understand it,this is one of the reasons im doin it as if they dont under stand it how can they but give you a good grade??? Example anyone who got those exam brief supplements in the Irish Independent read the the GV&VP setion of that and then read the GV&VP section of the english syllabus completely inconsistent and these institute of education teachers are ment to be the best in the country...BLAAAAAAAAA

The Failed God wrote:

Im not goin to even get started on General vision and viewpoint,ask any teacher or even corrector and they WILL NOT be able to properly explain what to write about and most (my teacher has his masters and all included) will admit not to fully understand it,this is one of the reasons im doin it as if they dont under stand it how can they but give you a good grade??? Example anyone who got those exam brief supplements in the Irish Independent read the the GV&VP setion of that and then read the GV&VP section of the english syllabus completely inconsistent and these institute of education teachers are ment to be the best in the country...BLAAAAAAAAA

Haha yeah. My english teacher covered theme/issue in depth, but skimmed over vision/viewpoint and lit genre. Now i'm told theme/issue wont even come up.

hum

do any of you have the book 'all wrapped up'?? its specifically for the comparative section of the course... we got it at the start of the year so i thought everyone did?? oddly enough it dosnt have general vision and viewpoint but it has great notes and comparision tables for theme or issue and lit genre..
jaysus it might be abit late to be telling you all about this but i thought every school used it

the smiley one

The Failed God wrote:

Im not goin to even get started on General vision and viewpoint,ask any teacher or even corrector and they WILL NOT be able to properly explain what to write about and most (my teacher has his masters and all included) will admit not to fully understand it,this is one of the reasons im doin it as if they dont under stand it how can they but give you a good grade??? Example anyone who got those exam brief supplements in the Irish Independent read the the GV&VP setion of that and then read the GV&VP section of the english syllabus completely inconsistent and these institute of education teachers are ment to be the best in the country...BLAAAAAAAAA

yeah, my teacher consulted another teacher in our school about hte whole GV+V thing (the teacher he consulted is an LC english marker, he isn't but he's a genius!) and she said that the reason that it's so hard to explain is that even the dept of education have conflicting views on what it's supposed to mean....like, is it the view of the characters, the reader, the author....etc.
So to sum this all up..........ambiguity??!!

The Failed God

"The general vision and viewpoint refers to the overall impact that the text makes on the reader and how the text communicates it characteristic sense of 'the way things are'" This is the syllabus's explaination and it refers to neither the author nor the characters point of view its all a load of Bull so you cant possibly be maked wrong for taking either approach which is why i recommend GV&VP to anyone its an exercise in spoof just like the rest of the comparative..

Camogie Playa

i think your english grade depends on how good a mood the corrector is on the day he/she is correcting. they might be fed up or you might be the last script to correct or summit, totally unfair anyway.
same for irish, if your corrector is an 'oldstyle'corrector they mightn't take to your point of view, instead theyd prefer the old usual answers!thats what we were told, so heres hoping i dont catch them on a bad day and that they're a young teacher!!
it's a lotto that our results and future depend on what mood a corrector is in!

It's only our lives. Nothing important. Don't worry about it.

Awayindahils

ok someone already posted this but its about the essay with only three poems-

the leaving cert mnarking scheme says only 3 poems need be discussed but mosrt ordinary teachers dont take any notice of this in an attempt to i dunno specially torture studnets, and as for the mood of the examiner, the only section that really effects in the compostion.

and if you have really bad hand writing, and im talking from expeirence here try skipping every second line as you write, it tends to blur less then while read or something, becuase im continusly being warned about how much my handwriting is going to cost me. one of my mock examiners had a freaker at me compliaing about it.

baby*cham*bell

Phillip Campion is my grinds teacher
Big Fancy Grinds school?-yes i especially love the plastic patio chairs we have to sit on! and the lack of tables! (any1 else in Exam Focus in Swords?)
That said, he's a brilliant teacher! in reference to his sample Dickinson essay on the rte website, Phillip is an examiner and he says nowhere is it written down that you have to answer on more than 1 poem (although 'twould be pretty hard to write 4 pages on 1-2 poems, and the questions usually says poetry or poems which would imply more than one)

nobodythere

How long does personal response have to be? I usually just put a few lines at the end of each poem...

Cannibal Ox

I've got 4 page essays written for my poets. It'll need some changing/waffling to suit the exam question so it might go 4 and a half/ 5 pages.

Flamingfud

baby*cham*bell wrote:

Phillip Campion is my grinds teacher!

He's my actual English teacher in Skerries. And a damn cool man. The problem here might be that the question was specifically a Dickinson question. Considering how small (but great!) Dickinson's poems mostly are, I can kind of see how the usual quota of three/four poems might modified when answering a Dickinson question. I mean, it's not like Yeats or Wordsworth where a multitude of ideas are expressed throughout the poem. They're short, sharp stabs of poetry. In general, I'd reckon that three/four poems per poet is definitely sufficient, as long as you're pretty indepth about each.

exiztone

The Failed God wrote:

Im not goin to even get started on General vision and viewpoint,ask any teacher or even corrector and they WILL NOT be able to properly explain what to write about and most (my teacher has his masters and all included) will admit not to fully understand it,this is one of the reasons im doin it as if they dont under stand it how can they but give you a good grade??? Example anyone who got those exam brief supplements in the Irish Independent read the the GV&VP setion of that and then read the GV&VP section of the english syllabus completely inconsistent and these institute of education teachers are ment to be the best in the country...BLAAAAAAAAA

Lol, NO teachers know what GB&VP is. I don't know how the expect the examiners will know how to correct a question when the teachers don't even know what it is to begin with :rolleyes:

pinkdaisy

english is so scary cos its so subjective, like if i didnt get the mark i thought i deserved, itd be the first one that id get rechecked, but also the one id be the most worried bout recheckin simply cos of that fact!
having said that though, i suppose everyones in the same boat...

bounty_hunter

grasshopa wrote:

How long does personal response have to be? I usually just put a few lines at the end of each poem...

Just be very careful that you include the "I" factor in a personal response. You must regularly refer to your own opinion ("I think such and such", "I feel...", etc.) or you will be very heavily penalised. If you don't include this aspect you will receive little to no marks for your answer.

sarahg_angel69

general vision is the easiest thing to write on EVER!!!!!! im doin hamlet,witness and of mice and men!!! my answer is divided into bout 8 parts;
introduction..naming texts
general vision of violence
'' murder
harsh lifestyles
community
parental love
restoration
good =v= evil
tragic hero
soooooo easy its just plain woffle!!!!!! did it in the mocks n got an A for that ans!!! just pick out the things that are similar in all the texts and ELABORATE...compare in every 2nd sentence and your away with it!!! dont worry!!!

Faerie

The correcting on the english paper is definately subjective...especially the essay. My cousin's teacher corrected her mocks and told her that the reason she gave her a B in the essay was because she didn't like the ending - the main character died or something tragic happened anyway. The teacher told her the actual writing was brilliant. And that teacher corrects exams!
My english teacher , who is absolutely brilliant!, told us to follow a few guidelines:
Never, ever, say you don't like something that is on the course like the novel or the play. It doesn't matter that it's supposed to be a 'personal' answer, they don't like it if you don't like it!
In the poetry question you should talk about 3 poems in depth and then dicuss 3 other poems briefly - Although it doesn't actually state anywhere that you should that has become the standard.
If you don't have the natural ability to come up with great stories, stick to an article type essay.
Unless you do have the ability to write great speeches, avoid them like the plague.
If you can make the corrector laugh, then you'll get an A.
Never write notes to the examiner!
In the comprehension questions always refer to and quote from the text.

segadreamcast

Nah, English LC marking is great...

...though maybe I'm saying this because I got a 92. Maybe.

baby*cham*bell

NoelRock wrote:

Nah, English LC marking is great...

...though maybe I'm saying this because I got a 92. Maybe.

NoelRock, do you go to Aidans?????