VRT and dual citizenship

ssh

Hi,

Both of my parents have dual citizenship, one in Ireland and Germany, one in Ireland and the U.K.

I did some reading here:
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html

which states:

People who have owned their vehicles abroad for more than 6 months and who are moving permanently to Ireland

are exempt from VRT. Now is it possible for them to buy a car in one of their respective home countries, hold it for six months and then bring it over here and not pay VRT?

prospect

It is possible, but not entirely legal.
AFAIK they must be a resident in the country the car is in.

Saruman

Probably if they want to do that i suppose.. seems like a lot of hassle. They are payiing for a car they cant use. Probably have to pay tax maybe even insurance too over there too.

Dont know though.... VRT sucks!!! We are the only EU country that has it AFAIK

Alun

It has nothing whatsoever to do with citizenship, and everything to do with where you are resident at the time you buy the car. If they are currently resident in Ireland, then you're out of luck.

Alun

Saruman wrote:

Dont know though.... VRT sucks!!! We are the only EU country that has it AFAIK

Wrong. The Netherlands has BPM which is their equivalent of VRT, and the Danes have it too.

The Dutch were forced by the EU a number of years ago to get rid of the forerunner of BPM (can't remember what it was called), so they just reintroduced it the next day under a new name.

In Denmark it's pretty horrendous. Their "registration tax" rate is apparently between 105% and 180% !!!!!

whippet

when you 'declare' the car for initial registration in ireland you must produce the following:

Proof of residence outside of the state (bank statements, utility bills, etc)
Proof of local tax / insurance of the vehicle outside of the state
Proof of change of residency

Plus you will have to answer confidently any questions that the inspector may ask.

ssh

Sorry, should have been more clear:

They hold dual-residency... as far as the government is concerned, they own a property in each country and spend half the year in each.

prospect

Well its easy then, but if they spend half the year in Germany and half the year in the UK, why do they want to have a car over here?

ssh

I didn't think that needed to be justified

prospect

Say no more.
Well if they travel to, germany. They should buy and register their car that week.
Then when they return to ireland 6 months and 1 week later, bring the car and register it here, with proof of address etc.

Once that is done, they are free to do what they like with it, or sell it on to any relations they may have living here.....

ssh

Well, they'd have to wait 12 months before selling, but I'm sure they'd be upset at the notion of that TVR Tuscan sitting there doing nothing.

thanks for the help!

whippet

they must keep it for 12 months after bringing it in, they can't sell it.

prospect

Feckin tax man has you every way :mad:

blastman

Alun wrote:

Wrong. The Netherlands has BPM which is their equivalent of VRT, and the Danes have it too.

The Dutch were forced by the EU a number of years ago to get rid of the forerunner of BPM (can't remember what it was called), so they just reintroduced it the next day under a new name.

In Denmark it's pretty horrendous. Their "registration tax" rate is apparently between 105% and 180% !!!!!

That Dutch story sounds familiar, obviously our lot followed their lead.

In Denmark, cars over 30 years old are exempt from VRT, so you get a lot of old Porsches and American classics being brought in.

Kersh

So then,
I am planning on going to work in the uk for 9 months. Can I buy a nice car while im there, and when I finish working there to return home, I can bring the car with me, get it irish registered, and not pay vrt.....if so, then that could be a plan,...

peasant

kersh

just make sure that you collect and present any and all evidence that prooves that you were there all the time and that the car was registerd to you more than 6 months.

Should work

As for the OP's parents. The tax inspectors really are sticklers for documents ...Your parents will need stacks of bills for themselves and the car that really show that they lived and used the car there.

Especially if they are really going to the 6 month and 1 day thing, the inspector will be suspicous ...so the forgeries better be watertight

Dades

ssh wrote:

Sorry, should have been more clear:

They hold dual-residency... as far as the government is concerned, they own a property in each country and spend half the year in each.

No doubt they are telling the VRT officer's comrade in the Income Tax section that they are spending less than 183 days in either country in any one year...

green-blood

so lets get this straight, they can afford to run homes in more than one country and are still scheming out of a couple of grand in car tax - it'll have to be paid somewhere!!

DubTony

green-blood wrote:

so lets get this straight, they can afford to run homes in more than one country and are still scheming out of a couple of grand in car tax - it'll have to be paid somewhere!!

WHY ?

It's well known that this tax is actually a tax on itself. i.e. the vrt is calculated on the full market price of the vehicle (including VRT), but they get away with it becasue it's not so much a tax as a registration charge, and governments are free to charge what they like for registration.

I don't blame anyone for trying to get away with it.

Victor

DubTony wrote:

It's well known that this tax is actually a tax on itself.

And.... ?

DubTony

Victor wrote:

And.... ?

Oh , sorry. I thought I explained. Allow me to say it again because you must be missing something.

the vrt is calculated on the full market price of the vehicle (including VRT), but they get away with it becasue it's not so much a tax as a registration charge, and governments are free to charge what they like for registration.

There ya go. Or maybe it isn't part of my post you're missing. But ... eh ... sorry ... I can't help you there. Maybe these people can.

Victor

So..... ?

People pay PRSI and PAYE on their income.

People pay excise and VAT on beer.

People pay import duty and VAT on their TVs and then buy a TV licence.

The concept of high and or multiple taxes is neither new or unique.

vector

>Victor

>People pay PRSI and PAYE on their income.
john doe can't "avoid" that, plus dole is a return

>People pay excise and VAT on beer.
john doe can't "avoid" that

>People pay import duty and VAT on their TVs and then buy a TV licence.
john doe can't "avoid" that

>The concept of high and or multiple taxes is neither new or unique.
agreed, but it is bad

john doe can't "avoid" many taxes, or he could try but effort isin;t worth it, but for a high value single item like a car he will try, that is the crux herein

Ratchet

ssh wrote:

Sorry, should have been more clear:

They hold dual-residency... as far as the government is concerned, they own a property in each country and spend half the year in each.

that's sounds even better as they also trying to avoid income tax by the looks of it.

lomb

haha nah income tax is payable in the country of source regardless of residency. residency in a second country while deriving income out of a non resident country is taxed at source in the non residency country, and then taxed again in the resident country but the second resident country gives a credit for the tax already paid.
ive lived in the uk, and tbh the saving on a new family car is about 4 grand, with the saving on a sports car as much as 30 or more grand. the only way ul 'make' on the deal is to buy something that depreciates very little like a porsche boxster. but theres not too many people who can afford to buy a car like a boxster.
other good cars to buy are new merc convertibles with small engines. i reakon its all a bit of a lost cause as nearly all cars shed there value like dandruff. definately not an investment anyway.

Ratchet

lomb wrote:

haha nah income tax is payable in the country of source regardless of residency. residency in a second country while deriving income out of a non resident country is taxed at source in the non residency country, and then taxed again in the resident country but the second resident country gives a credit for the tax already paid...............

well,


Your residence status for tax purposes is determined by the number of days that you are present in Ireland in a tax year. You will be resident in Ireland for a tax year in either of the following circumstances:

If you spend 183 days or more in Ireland during a tax year
or
If you spend 280 days or more in Ireland over a period of two consecutive tax years, you will be regarded as resident for the second tax year. For example, if you spend 140 days here in Year 1 and 150 days here in Year 2, you will be resident in Ireland for Year 2.

lomb

Ratchet wrote:

well,


Your residence status for tax purposes is determined by the number of days that you are present in Ireland in a tax year. You will be resident in Ireland for a tax year in either of the following circumstances:

If you spend 183 days or more in Ireland during a tax year
or
If you spend 280 days or more in Ireland over a period of two consecutive tax years, you will be regarded as resident for the second tax year. For example, if you spend 140 days here in Year 1 and 150 days here in Year 2, you will be resident in Ireland for Year 2.

true but it doesnt matter. if they have income in germany derived from germany they will have to pay tax in germany likewise if u have income from ireland tax must b paid in ireland regardless of residency afaik.

Ratchet

lomb wrote:

true but it doesnt matter. if they have income in germany derived from germany they will have to pay tax in germany likewise if u have income from ireland tax must be paid in ireland regardless of residency afaik.

yes, in perfect world where you have contract job in big corporation or season tech support job filled with guys that have nothing really to hide. unfortunately, i did experienced something else and do not share your view on the subject of season residency phenomenon but it is there for you to find out

but as we going in to right direction to get this thread locked I will suggest that we focus on VRT issue.

Well SSH
if you can proof it that you had car in other country at the same time that you have resided there shouldn’t be a problem. You have to keep the car for next 12 moths before you can sell it, which also means that you can drive it (doesn't have to be parked for 12 months)

if you can , go for it